Ok, Now I know what your going to say...why not?  

Well, let me tell you why not..... if I am doing Real Estate full time I wouldn't dare be able to properly keep up with the legalities, new forms, laws, inventory, prices, marketing, servicing the listing etc.. if I were also doing the loan and keeping up with the daily rates, lenders, loan programs, new laws, forms and also servicing the loan to my clients best interest so why do lenders or real estate agents cross over that line and do it all the time? 

 Ok, first let me put in a disclosure..if your doing it for yourself or brother and they do not expect marketing, follow up, up to date forms, law etc... thats another story. Its their/your backside on the chopping block  but as long as you guys are both OK with that and advise the agent on the aother side , that is doing work for both parties, just so they can know what they are getting in to.  

But just this week I had a horrible experience and I've had it about up to here (you can't see me but I have my hand over my head:) 

Forget all the inaccuracies in the MLS but he listed the home for Sale and also for Lease or Lease with Option to purchase.  We took the latter method. There were 2 other lease contracts on the table (no options). He told me upfront that he had never done a lease option/purchase before so I would have to guide him....no problem, thanks for the headsup !

 I sent him the Lease, Option and purchase contract along with an increased monthly payment of $300 (so they would be picked over the other 2)  and we already had an agreed upon detailed assesment of how the option would work as well (via email) so I wrote it up verbatum. 

I got a 2 page letter back with all 20 pages of contracts, the cashiers check and personal checks that he required saying that none of the option is applicable because his seller now only wants to lease it out now for the increased amount (none of which will go towards down payment)  and by the way, write all new contracts...... yeeeeek.  (the new contract requirement was because of a typo on the address that I made because he made us get him all the contract within a couple hrs...no problem it was my mistake but it could have been cleaned up in a counter) But now he wants the increased amount in rent but nothing to go to his loan!!!!!!

Here is what I found out in the end..... he never ran the options by his client, he only sent over what he thought was best. Can I just tell you that the email was titles.... "If you want to go the option route, here is how it must go: "   mmmmmmm sounds like the seller has already set his parameters right?...not! 

All this and my clients are 1.5 hours away, love the home and since his orginal verbal acceptance, put a 30 day notice into their apartment complex (premature I know, but I wasn't aware they did that until it started getting bumpy)   So I had them call the apt. complex, find out how hard it would be to stay so atleast that pressure wasn't looming over their shoulder guiding them into the wrong decision. I needed them to think clearly. 

This lender/agent did not disclose to his client all the things going on so I put it in a letter in return(the same way I got a counter offer with time constraint) giving the seller a specific idea of how he is making money by going our route and the lender/agent was mad because I was writing a letter and not just re-writing the contract which is one the first ways I figured out that his client (out of state) had no idea he was negotiating and make decisions on his behalf.  He told me not to write the letter because he would just reject it anyway..... (who is the principle here, him or his client?)  I went ahead and submitted new contracts, a counter offer because he didn't want to write one because he doesn't have winforms (computer generated) and also attached the letter to his seller as an addendum on the counter in hopes that his seller actually would read the letter.   

 We got a counter (wala...he can hand write!! no computer form needed) with another letter attached, but no acceptance of my first counter showing that the seller had actually seen it.  

You know what....I'm not even going to finish how he now sent over a counter to reduce my commission etc  (we paid full price by the way)...it only gets worse but we did end up finishing the deal and my clients loved the house so much that they took his bait.  I also know the buyer can not sign a counter confirming that my commission will be reduced but I will address that in a year when we close escrow....UGH  ! 

Lenders and Realtors.....please stick to what you do best and protect your clients, don't get greedy and try and wrap up commission around every corner. Don't try and pretend to be something your not!    It doesn't even matter if you refer off the loan to one of you employees, atleast someone else is physically focusing on and concentrating on what is best for that client.   Do what's right, refer it out to a lender or realtor that is serious about their business and does it full time.  No matter what, you win because you get a referral fee right (most of the time)  I never accept a referral fee my lenders but that's me.....

Am I wrong here ? 

 

 

24 Comments on A Pet Peeve....Full time Lenders acting as Part time Real Estate Agents & visa versa

JAN
14
2007
134,315 Points 15 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Well, yes and no.

I'm a Mortgage Broker and a Real Estate Sales Agent.  Would I do both in the same transaction?  Yes, if the coustomer asked me to - BTW I DO provide suggestions of other Mortgage Brokers in the area- there is no problem with competition!

My point is that a moron is a moron, regardless of how many things they try to do!  I know several multiply licenced people that are multitasking gods and I know quite a few people who can't even handle 1 job properly.

So, as usual it comes down to the individual.

10:58am • #1
242,397 Points 98 Featured Posts Outside Blog

You're correct but perhaps for the wrong reasons.

There are many good lenders who are adequate real estate agents and many real estate agents who are competent lenders; you had neither in this transaction.

I think the real issue is the potential conflict of interest (even for your cousin) when acting in a dual capacity.  A real estate agent may not give good financial advice in order to accomodate a risky real estate transaction.

Your conclusion was correct: 

Lenders and Realtors.....please stick to what you do best and protect your clients, don't get greedy and try and wrap up commission around every corner. Don't try and pretend to be something your not!

So who cares how you got there?  You got there. 

11:04am • #2
118,471 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lisa, I too am a Full-time Realtor.  Before becoming a Realtor I was a loan officer.  Now I do not try to do both and make a commission because my belief is that it's a conflict of interest.  But, I try to keep up on what's going on with Mortgages and programs because it still is in my blood.  I believe I can help guide my customers better because I do know both sides of the equation, if I can get my clients to listen to me.  There's many schools of thought on this and I'm not sure that one solid answer will work!  Again, it's my preference not to do all sides but you know what?  There's been times that I've wished I had control of all sides because then I would know if the job was getting done properly and on time.

I agree with Marc, it comes down to the individual.  Some can handle it and some can't.

11:07am • #3
3 Featured Posts

Lisa - Sorry to hear of your strife!

Another example of greed - the other agent/lender is trying to get his hand in too many cookie jars, and has TOTALLY abandoned his fiduciary responsibility to his clients!  To make decisions on their behalf and/or withhold offers is TOTALLY unethical! 

SK

11:10am • #4
118,471 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Oh Lisa,  I didn't mean to come across that I was jumping on you.  I too am sorry to hear that you didn't have professional people representing their clients!  Very frustrating no matter who's doing what!  Hope that you do not have to experience something like that again or at least anytime soon!
11:16am • #5
2 Featured Posts

Marc, 

I appreciate your opinion but whose "cousin" are you referring to? I am assuming you are using that as an example for your  dual agency/related parties theory and also when I referred to doing a transaction for your brother right?  I just want to make sure you read the whole discussion   I was not related to any party in this transaction. I'm sure we are on the same page, just clarifying :) 

And where do you think I went wrong? Oviously you have an opinion based on "There are many good lenders who are adequate real estate agents and many real estate agents who are competent lenders; you had neither in this transaction"  Are you referring to both sides of the transaction or his lender/real estate side?   Because that is why I put this out there...I love to hear what I could do better and this is not different.  Your opinion is very welcome.    Thanks

Cynthia, I didn't take it as "jumping on me" ,  I appreciate everyones opinion, thats what we are here for. Thanks for your thoughts 

Marc,  I couldn't possibly agree with you more!!!  

11:28am • #6
21 Featured Posts

Lisa,

It was Brian Brady who left the comment about cousin and going wrong... not Marc.

I have mixed opinions on this one.  I believe that a person can be responisible enough to handle both, but those types of people are few and far between.  You are more likely to come across a person looking to pad their wallets and remove the fiduciary responsibility from the transaction.

12:08pm • #7
2 Featured Posts

Thanks Jason for the correction (sorry Marc)  and I agree with you. 

 We would all like to think that people are out to do what is best and fullfill their fudiciary responsibilities to their client.

I just find it very hard to believe that a "full time" lender could do a client proper service by dabbling in Real Estate or a "full time"  realtor  for that matter dabbling in mortgage.  In my mind, it is a dis-service. I would like to see that person defend themselves in court regarding dual agency, conflict of interest etc... when the only real person to lose here is the client.  Responsible or not, how diligent are they if they are not devoted to that field?  It's fine to be good at many thing and great at none, but do I as a consumer, want to do business with that person?  What is the saying?.... Jack of all trades, master of none?!?!?!?

They are either not busy with their "full time" business and have time to dabble or attempt to balance both or they are padding their pockets. ( I think quite honestly, I hope anyway, that most are just "not busy" and have the time to dabble in both and experiement) 

I know a lender that I respect as an individual/father/coach etc.... a great deal but he "dabbles" and for that I would never refer to him.  And by the way, I often hear how proud he is of "double ending the deal" ........mmmm turn off for me!!!! 

12:25pm • #8
7 Featured Posts

I am a Licensed Real Estate Agent and Licensed Loan Officer.  I was a Loan Officer first... 

I became a Licensed Real Estate Agent becuase I would do a lot of marketing which cost a lot of money.  I would get the business, line up my borrowers with Real Estate Agents who would NEVER send me any business.  That got really old....The Agents acted like I owed it to them...not even a thank you...Oh, one Agent gave me a gift certificate that he forgot to activate.

My motivation to become a Licensed Real Estate Agent was to send myself my own leads....After I became licensed to do both it occurred to me that if one side fell apart then I would probably lose the entire deal...so currently I'm just doing the Real Estate Sales part and have the opposite going on... 

It wasn't a greed issue.

We all have our own motivations and reasons for what we do and I could see how it could look like a greed issue...I viewed it as good business sense.

3:51pm • #9

With Global Realty Marketing, We have a sister company called Global Equity Lending that handles the Mortgage part.  As a Realtor with a loan originators license, we have our RE client and we are able to fill out the 1003 then pass it to the Lending pros with the system.  We still get the full commission instead of just a referral fee.  The Global Equity Lending System works well for any Realtor who wants to have a part in the mortgages business but does not want to have to be the Mortgage pro.  It also lets us hire our own agents and build our own teams so that we are able to be paid from more then our own production for our retirement.

 

Lance & Elaine
The "Wells" Team

3:54pm • #10
7 Featured Posts
Lance and Elaine-  That is awesome !!  Please send me info on that if you can  LaurenC@charter.net
3:58pm • #11
10 Featured Posts

Just for grins, I added you to my Lender Associates

Just kidding 

4:30pm • #12
1 Featured Post
Lisa I agree, with the amount of business we do, how can anyone do both sides?  That would be like a waiter at a busy restaurant cooking the food and waiting the tables.  Theres a reason why thats not so.
8:42pm • #13
1 Featured Post

LISA -

This subject matter has appeared in a number of AR blogs recently...most comments echo your conclusion.

A more prevalent theme has been Agents seeking a mortgage commission for taking the loan application.
Lenders solicit Agents/CPA'S/Attorneys to take applications for a commission to increase their loan totals.

I'm not sure RE Brokers are advocating their agents to participate in the financing...

8:46pm • #14
2 Featured Posts

You are right on.  I thought about learning loans when the market slowed but I was talked out of it for the exact reasons you state in this blog.   Focus and specialization is the key to more business not more businesses more business.  Doing loans is just that running a whole other business.  I now have a awsome lender who recipicates refferal.  I got more business like I wanted and I am stayong focused.

 

Orville McCallister

Realtor

Keller Williams Realty Temecula Valley

www.orvillemccallister.com

9:13pm • #15
I used to do both years ago when their was only a few loan programs to choose from and it was not that bad but now I have a hard time seeing how you can keep up with ALL the new loan programs out there and keep track of ALL the real estate laws, areas you sell in, etc, etc. But I guess some people enjoy all that paperwork. I would be curious for those that do both...which would you pick if you could only do one?
9:14pm • #16
5 Featured Posts
By far the WORST transaction I ever had was this fall with a selling agent/lender!!  Wouldn't return my calls, when he did it was in reference to the wrong file, didn't tell me until the day of closing about loan stipulations, didn't believe time was of the essence, blamed his processor that left without notice, you name it.  As I represented the seller, I was constantly trying to explain to my seller what was going on.  It ended up closing 13 days late.  And then he had the nerve to say it was pleasureable to deal with me... and oh by the way... sorry things were delayed.  Grrr.  Left a very bad taste in my mouth unfortunately. 
9:48pm • #17
117,531 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

there is enough going on in the mortgage business, that it keeps me busy.

i would hate to have to keep up with 2 jobs.

so you wont catch me on that side of the fence. LOL

now, occassionaly i DO get to put on my realtor hat if one of my clients does a fsbo deal. but i at least encourage them to pay a realtor a nominal fee to write the contract.

 

10:21pm • #18
2 Featured Posts

Harper Team....

"Adding me to your lender list????  funny!  I am focused on my real estate business but thanks!   ;p

11:04pm • #19
JAN
15
2007

LISA , I CANT AGREE WITH YOUR MORE. A REALTOR WHO IS A   LOAN REP IN THEIR SPARE TIME OR JUST THE OPPISITE, IN MY BOOK IS A LOSE CANNON AND I CERTAINLYDON'T WANT THEM INVOLVED IN MY TRANSACTION. I BELIVE IT IS A TOTAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST.  HERE'S A PERFECT EXPLANATION. I HAD A REALTOR SHOW ONE OF MY HOMES AND EVENTUALLY WROTE ON IT, WHEN I ASKED TO SEE THE PRE-APPROVAL I WAS INFORMED ,THEY WERE DOING THE LOAN AS WELL. , (GREAT RED FLAGS IN MIND, SO I LET MY SELLERS KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WE PROCEDED) LONG STORY SHORT45  DAYS LATER, THE LOAN WAS REJECTED BECAUSE OF A COMMUNICATION PROBLEM WITH THE BUYER AND REALTOR/LO, COME TO FIND OUT THE BUYERS COULD A LOWER RATE FROM ANOTHER COMPANY WHICH THIS REALTOR/LO COULD NOT MATCH, EVERYTHING WENT SOUR WITH BUYER AND ENDED UP NOT TRUSTING RERALTORS AND LLOAN REPS. THE BIG LOSS WAS MY SELLER WHO HAD THIER HOUSE OFF THE MARKET FOR 45 DAYS. BY THE WAY (IN OUR STATE, MICHIGAN WHY DON'T LOAN REPS HAVE TO BE LICENSED ? )

THIS WAS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF GREED IN WHICH WE ALL LOST !!

12:53am • #20
364,492 Points 62 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I have a hard tome with ANYONE that works part time as a REALTOR.  Either get in the game or get out.
5:31am • #21
2 Featured Posts

Pete and Rebecca, 

I totally agree. I do,however, understand someones motives to do both for a family member or something but I guess that could blow up in someones face as well. 

Since you had the clients information at that point, could you not contact them or their new lender and try and save it?  If they severed ties with the previous lender/agent and I would assume no "contract" was signed between the buyer and their lender/agent or they wouldn't have went somewhere else for the loan, could you have not contacted them?  

 I would never do this unless I knew for sure their ties were severed but I guess its just a question to put out there. 

 

10:56am • #22
2 Featured Posts

Chris,

I actually know a couple realtors that work part time but they don't need the money so they never go at it in a desperate way. They have alligned themselves with a national company and if its difficult or seems to be high maintenence, they will refer it out to another agent.  Usually they just do the easy ones or represent the buyer because they want to mainly stay home.  They are also really pro-active because they time to respond and they work well with other agents. 

The ones that I am thinking of, actually  work for another company and I have done deals with them so they tell me upfront and we move forward from there. I've had great experiences.

  The minute someone becomes devious or just outright lies to me, things go down hill quick and sometimes those part timers are not anything like the ones that have become my "part-time" respected colleagues.  I guess it goes both ways in all industries 

11:01am • #23
FEB
23
2007
126,216 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lisa...

I agree and disagree.

I am a licensed Mortgage Broker in the state of Florida.  I am also a licensed Real Estate Broker!

I agree in that I believe that there is not enough time in the day to master and practice both fields.  We work smarter by sticking to one thing and becoming productive and efficient at it.  When we add another huge task, we lose focus and the ability to profit at the same clip.

With that in mind... I have actually met Realtors that tell me that they will not work with Mortgage Brokers that have Real Estate licenses because all we are going to do is steal their clients.

HA!  Like we need that Professional Karma!

I do not like the Realtors who operate as LOs either.  Doing both sides of the transaction is dangerous... There is too much power put into one person's hands which is just SCREAMING for something to go wrong and load all the liability on that person who couldn't stick to one thing.  I had a client come to me and try to get a mortgage - then his realtor found out and got mad.  She had actually signed him to an Exclusive Buyer's Agency Agreement that INCLUDED a clause that he HAD to do the loan with her.  She offered 4 loan programs from 1 lender.  What if he didn't fit??  When I looked at her contracts and her good faith and ran the numbers through my pricing engines - she was making 10% TOTAL COMMISSION!!! And! She had him on the hook for 6 months!

People that represent buyers AND do their loans are typically predatory. 

I was a Real Estate Agent first... moved to Florida and got my Broker's license so I do not have to hang my license with a big firm etc etc etc... but here's the deal. I have a ton of experience.  I will not list or sell... if it is an out of state deal, I'll take a referral fee... or on my own property I might as well... but when you partner with me, you're partnering with a REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONAL... not just a Mortgage Professional. 

I get a lot of agents who have no support or guidance from their Broker who get lost and need a hand - especially on issues that they are uncomfortable with concerning appraisals coming in low, financing contingencies, seller concessions, etc... things sometimes just get written that lenders won't like and could jeopardize the buyer or seller's position!  If your Mortgage Partner comments on those, he/she is actually practicing Real Estate without a license!  I am NOT.  I have experience. I have written contracts on: Leases, Sales, Commercial Investments, New Construction, Existing properties, Auctions etc etc etc...

The fact is that I am not a part time Realtor - or Agent... I am a Full Time REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONAL.... I just don't do any listing and selling... just Mortgages!

The Mortgage Go To Guy!

10:14am • #24

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Lisa Forss

Temecula, CA

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Allison James Estates and Homes, Inc/Forss Realty Group

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