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Leave My Buyer ALONE!

So can someone tell me when, precisely, it became okay for a listing agent to try and cut me out of a deal? I know, it happens all the time, but it ROYALLY ticks me off.

My buyer, by the way, is a repeat client of mine and is very loyal because I provide a high level of service to him-in the way that he deems to be most beneficial to him. See, he travels a LOT on business. And on the side, he develops land. He'll purchase a parcel, oh, once or twice a year. I don't push or pressure him, I provide him with as much information as possible (I don't like to hoard information, thank you very much), and he calls or emails when he sees something of interest.

In this instance, he wanted additional information about a parcel a couple of months ago, so I contacted the listing agent to see what I could get from her that might be different than the tax records or MLS. We got a survey, and my guy continued his personal due diligence.

So fast forward to last week. The price had been reduced and my buyer called ready to purchase it. He'd taken an approach he takes once in a while-and went to the seller directly to work out a price. His intent is not to cut me out-he told the seller up front that he has an agent and would be using me to work out the transaction-knowing that the seller's agreement with the listing agent was between the seller and the listing agent. Nothing to do with him or with me. I left a couple of voicemails for the listing agent to bring her up to speed, no calls back.

Today my buyer calls and the seller said that his listing agent was going to cut a great deal for both of them if they would cut me out of the deal altogether. Which ticked off my client. He knows the steps I've taken in his behalf thus far and knows the value I bring to the transaction once we do get a contract in place. So I call the listing agent-who THIS time answers the phone. And is very surprised that I would call, is very defensive about who's working for who and well, everything in general. She did back down somewhat when I explained that I had a paper trail, so no need to argue over the semantics.

Of COURSE she had NO intention of cutting me out. OF COURSE I'm working for the buyer. So just please submit the paperwork and let's be done with it.

I think I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle somewhere. I trust my client. The other side? Not so much. But before you go talking smack about me, know that my clients are loyal and well-educated. Leave 'em alone.

Posted by Leigh Brown Charlotte NC Broker/Owner on 01/15/2007 02:13 PM

Comments (49)

buyer, buyer agent, land, repeat client, charlotte nc real estate, concord nc real estate, north carolina real estate

49 Comments on Leave My Buyer ALONE!

JAN

2007

Leigh - I NEVER understand other agents when they try to pull something like this. They know inside that what they're doing is wrong, and yet some of them persist. Their greed gets the better of them, and that is by no means any kind of excuse for their behavior. What goes around comes around....

Ann

Leigh, Gosh Ann just said everything I was going to say.. so I'll just add that eventually word gets out about how they conduct their business.. I know a number of agents who have a hard time selling listings as other agents don't want to work with them.. If I have to I will but believe me I am extremely FIRM in all our negotiations and these agents know everything is in writing and that I am very on top of all aspects of the transaction..

Sounds like the other Agent has the ethics of a mouldy rag.

Stuff like this does more than just tick me off - the people like this are the ones that make the whole profession look bad.

Shame on the other agent! Unfortunately, we will see a lot of this in the future, with many agents willing to do anything, Ethical or Unethical to survive. What goes around, comes around. I keep reminding myself: This is why the North Carolina Real Estate Commission was established. Number One...to protect the consumer & Number 2: to penalize the unprofessionals.

When I first started Real Estate, I had a well-known agent try to take my clients. My clients had already signed an Exclusive Buyer Agency Agreement with me and I had well educated them on the "I already have an agent" process. Well, needless to say, my clients informed me of the situation, I contacted the agent and read him his rights. His excuse was something like he's the big time owner of XYZ real estate company, has over 30+ years in real estate & never signs contracts with his clients up front. Of course, I told him he should have considering that the laws as well as times have changed, without a paper trail he does not have a chance, and if he is a Realtor, I have No problem filing a complaint with the Regional Realtor's Association for violation b/c I do have a paer trail, he failed to ask my clients at first substantial contact, & when my clients told him they did have an agent---were very happy---he continued to press them, which is a complete violation of the Realtor's Code of Ethics.

Ann and Kaye-I do hope that their consciences catch up with them one day. Word does get around-as big as real estate is, the watercoolers still generate gossip.

Marc-Exactly. Hard to raise the bar of professionalism with crap like this going on!

Jaclyn-Good for you for sticking to your funs, and for having your clients ready to respond.

I know the feeling all to well. I had a buyer that I had helped get a awesome loan (4% down that he did not have to pay back- FREE MONEY Basically), and had worked with for a couple of months cut me out because the seller said that it would benefit him to not have a buyers agent. The short of it is that the house was on the market for 6 months and he probably could of negotiated a better deal then he did. Of course the seller was glad that he did not bring an agent, that means more money for them! I am glad that you have a loyal buyer, I wish I could say the same about some of mine!

Leigh, I hate it when that happens. Fortunately I'm always in the seller side so I control the commission. Big advantage.

Did this agent call your client directly? or did the seller and the buyer cook this all up?? It's hard to know whats really going on when the seller and the buyer talk to one another without letting us in on it! If this agent called or spoke with your client directly (not heresay thru the seller), then you have a good case for an ethics complaint.

Debbie Cook
www.thesilverbee.com

Dena-I say no. If the buyer wants to make a change, they should be allowed to make a change, but no way it's ever ok to slide in under someone else's radar.

Dan-It's taken a lot of work and education to get buyers to understand-I wish they were all like this guy. He's the handshake-type which I think is a dying breed.

Bryant-Sad thing is, this seller's agent saw the $$ and a way to keep more. Wish she were upright like YOU.

Debbie-the agent went through the seller with this idea. so i'm thinking the seller and his agent saw a way to get extra $$ into each of their respective pockets. I hate that he went directly to the seller. He was trying to save me the trouble, go figure. =)

Leigh - Thank goodness for loyal buyers. You clearly do a fantastic job for this guy and he appreciates it. And your due diligence pays off with the paper trail, etc. Once again a demonstration of how important this is. I think the fact that this buiyer does go to the seller sends mixed messages, like he is trying to work a deal, despite him telling the seller he has an agent - too bad he feels compelled to do this. Just because he is honorable does not, obviously, mean the LA and the seller will be.

As others have said, this agent's behavior is yet another example of why our profession has the reputation that it does with the public.

Jeff-And it's hard to explain why you go through agents at all, when the other side acts like this. I know I'm lucky that he's honorable-still not sure why he went to the seller directly, but it could be that old handshake honor!

Leigh, I hear what you are saying. But it does bring out exactly what your cost to the buyer is. It sounds like you have really good buyers and they would have no problem adding your commission to the price that the seller gave when cutting you out of the deal.

I had a good friend who I showed a FSBO home to. The seller stood there and told us the price of the home with and without an agent involved. Boy, was that uncomfortable. I was glad he decided to move on to another home. It was funny. He was OK with me getting $15,000 if it was part of the listing commission split but when it came to adding my commission to the price, it was a very different matter.

Leigh-

I am an exclusive buyer's agent so this is a near and dear subject to my heart. I tell my buyers, investors or otherwise that I must do the talking for them. Anytime a buyer and a seller start negotiating directly this can happen.

Also, do you have him in buyer's contract? If you do then case closed the listing agent doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I think another thing to point out is that you always pay! The first managing broker I worked for told me that all the time "you always pay". That is so true in most buying/selling situations I have delt with that the buyer or the seller tries to cut out agents. Usually the one that is not represented (FSBO or Buyer without an agent) gets bent over. They think they got an awesome deal, and in some cases they might, but not in the majority that I have witnessed.

You are right, this happens all too often. This tells you something about the agent's character and if possible I tried not to work with such a person in the future. When I work with a buyer the representation is usually Buyer's Agent so it is easy to confront the other agent.

One thing is for sure, I don't want the buyer and seller to even know each others names until they sit across from the settlment table.

I would be VERY uncomfortable with a buyer who wanted to talk directly with a seller under ANY circumstances. No good can ever come of it. What it did was put YOU at risk. There are too many ways that a buyer or seller or listing agent can get a wrong impression.

In the future, if the buyer insists on speaking with a seller, I'd want to make it a three way phone or personal visit with his agent present. If the listing agent doesn't want to be there, fine. But, I would NEVER want a buyer to do anything without me. Anything. If nothing else, I'd tell him that, depending on how the meeting went, his agent should be present to protect him.

Don't you just love loyal clients?? I remember when I was with a big broker and my clients would call the office. Almost every time, the duty agent would simply say that I wasn't there and "is there something I can help you with?". Uh huh.

Lenn

I have a "good client" like you, that I've worked with her and her family for years. She's thinking about "dabbling" in repos so she can fix them up and resell. She's trying to educate herself first, so has been attending sheriff auctions. An agent & lender were in attendance and were going around trying to solicit all visitors. They started to talk to her and she told them she had an agent she works with. That didn't stop them. They continued to pursue her and told her they could give her a better "deal". Her comment: it really made her mad and she would never work with someone so unethical. Hurray for me!

Tim-I'm not sure why so many of us assume that buyers aren't going to pay us. It's that assumption in particular that gets so many agents in hot water. Gotta talk to people.

Shannon-I only work with buyers who are dedicated to me. Doesn't mean they all behave, but it's a start.

Dan-So true! FSBO deals get messy because the seller thinks they're saving and the buyer thinks they're saving....and the money has to go one way or the other.

Jennifer-i hear ya. I just wish there were a way to truly avoid other agents sometimes-but there's not, if they happen to have the right property listed-to avoid showing it is do get into hot water about your fiduciary responsibility. Does mean you watch it all the more carefully.

Lenn-I totally agree. Without a paper trail and a loyal buyer, I'd be sunk here for sure. One of the reasons I'm at RE/MAX is to get away from that dangerous up desk.

Elaine-go you!

and what rock did this agent crawl out from under? Unfortunately, there seem to be some of that caliber of agent in every town and city. We had one in my area who was frequently the agent not allowed in homes for sale, at the request of the seller!

Joan-it's at the edge of our area, more rural, and definitely light years behind with technology and everything else. could i invite her here? nope. no email.

This is one of the main reasons why my dad had quit selling real estate back in the 80s (Along with the rediculous mortgage rates). The only thing I can suggest to you is to use buyer/seller contracts. It kinda sucks when you have to ask a friend to sign a contract, but just explain its in both of your interests, maybe that will help. Hopefully karma will come back and bite the other agent in the azz for this.

Leigh--I know what you are saying. I am dealing with a situation where I showed a property twice to the buyer then to the buyer's mother. The buyer's ex-mother-in-law calls her, says she has a property that she may want to see. Instead of doing a drive-by, the ex-mother-in-law has arranged an appointment with the listing agent.

The buyer calls me later, freaking, thinking that she has done something terribly wrong. I tell her not to worry and that certainly the listing agent will understand. I call the listing agent, explain what happened, and his response..."when did you show the property? Can you prove it?".

HUH?? What Are You asking? Thank Goodness for our SupraeKeys...it records and reports all those who have entered a property.

Leigh...

The only thing I see left to say is "What comes around goes around"...

Once a salesperson starts this crap they wind up alienating everyone within a 100 mile radius of their area...If not further :)

Sooner or later no one will want to work with the person that did this. That will make it very hard to sell houses.

Never a good idea to let a buyer talk directly to a seller or a seller's agent without your involvement --- too bad you'll hafta deal with hard feelings all the way through this. Good thing that you know your client and they won't allow you to be cut out of the deal. Everyone will be walking on eggshells here...sad dontcha think?

This is exactly why real estate agents are rated as among the most untrustworthy professionals. I use the term 'professionals' very loosely for many of them. I have learned to be very careful at keeping a good papertrail to protect myself and my clients. I advocate for our associations to use more of the alloted budget to focus on making the industry more ethical rather than advertising to promote an image.

Fustrating for sure! You would hope that as professionals, we would hold ourselves to the highest ethical standards and it is true, what goes around comes around. But that doesnt mean because it happens to a person, they should do it themselves. I generally give my buyers a handful of cards to hopefully prevent situations like this happening, and to help them not be as "harrassed" if they are going to an open house or doing their due diligence. I do have a client of mine that tells agents up front that he has a broker - buyer contract but has a couple quick questions, that usually does the job.

Brett - I agree with you: "I advocate for our associations to use more of the alloted budget to focus on making the industry more ethical rather than advertising to promote an image." I think that actively pursuing agents who behave unethically is the most important thing that NAR and other associations can do.

Our most important service (other than knowledge) for the consumer is to be a TRUSTED advocate for our clients. When we allow unethical agents to continue to act in untrusworthy ways, then we deserve to be lumped together we the bad apples too. We need to make our associations take more action to remove unethical agents.

Leigh - I am very happy that your client was a "handshake kind of guy" and he did not let that unethical agent sway him!

Leigh- I would be ticked too !! You're fortunate to have a loyal Buyer...

When I was a Loan Officer I would fax a 1003 (loan application) to several lenders to shop rates for a borrower. I always wondered what would stop the lender from now contacting that borrower since they have all the information and we Loan Officers don't have protection like a Buyer's Rep agreement....

I totally agree with Lenn that I would NEVER want my buyer to talk directly to the seller.. But then again, I don't have any clients who sound as educated and savvy as yours are.. I am glad your clients were upset. That shows great loyalty!

Unfortunately there are just too many shady folks in this industry. By the book is the best way to go....

I missed that memo too.

Your best defense is a good offense. If you work hard for your clients and earn their trust you will win. I hope that loser goes out of business.

Great post.

That sounds like an awful thing for that agent to do.

I do question letting the client negotiate with the seller directly. They may set up a side deal that could leave you open to problems. Furthermore, I think skillful negotiating should be one of the services provided to clients.

Thank you Leigh for bringing this up!

This is not good for the entire industry when people behave this way.

I have seen agents put their contact infromation in their public remarks on the mls, in essence telling my buyer client to contact them for more information. It's the MLS, it's not the newspaper. It's not an ad for the listng agent. It's an ad for the proeprty.

I agree: Don't try to steal my clients. It's unethical.

Thanks for the comments, it's always mighty refreshing to be encouraged by others in the Rain that we CAN make this a better industry one at a time.

One note-Chad-I didn't LET the buyer negotiate with the seller directly-he did it completely on his own and I found out about it when he called to let me know. Skillful negotiating is definitely a service that I provide to clients-however, I'm not a babysitter and can't control what they do when they're not with me. This is definitely an oddball situation. Which doesn't excuse the actions of the other side.

Attorneys are always surprised by real estate agent ethics rules - or the lack thereof. Attorney ethics are so heavily monitored and regulated. It seems odd that real estate agents - who provide a similar service, representation - are not subject to more similar standards. In Washington, an attorney encouraging an opposing party to leave their attorney out of the deal is a VERY SERIOUS ethics violation. Attorneys have been disbarred for that precise kind of behavior!

I think you have something to take to the ethics board! How ridiculous is this??? In our market that listing agent wouldn't last long. Reputation is everything!

Over the years, I have developed this weird sense that makes my nose wiggle when I run into smelly unprofessional people..like the agent you describe. AHHhhhhhh CHoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't experienced this with another agent BUT I have with a loan officer.

OK..I just spent 45mins responding in this very spot about my loathing loan officers "wanna be lenders". I then had to erase my response because I realized that my two aweful experiences can be equated to the aweful licensed agent experiences some of you have gone through.

All in all, Leigh I want to thank you for posting your anger because in a weird blonde way I was able to heal my anger towards the whole "loan officer" profession. Not all are bad, some are great. Would I recommend them? Last resort.

Now don't y'all go and tell anyone you just witnessed a blonde having a profound moment, My husband would fall off the carrier flight deck in shock ;)

You can leverage the existance of the ethics commitee in your discussion with the Seller's agent, if you have an ethics commitee in your association, I would remind the other agent that having your name appear in front of the ethics committee from unethical behavior is not good business practice.

JAN

2007

If this is a practice this agent does on a regular basis then few agents will want to work with them. This agent may not be in business a long time if they treat others in the business this way. I know you will be reluctant to do any other transactions with them.

This agent will soon learn, you can shear a sheep for many years but you can only skin it once.

and lets not forget though that while we educate many buyers...i still think that even after that they still don't completely always get it...but we will keep trying!

www.EagleResorts.com

Funny you just posted this because I've run across a few buyers in the past several weeks that were just calling the listing agents directly and not using a buyer's agent in order to get a "better deal" on the property.

It seems that listing agents are giving back some of their commission to buyers if they use the listing agent as a dual agent (if allowed by state law). Though this may save the buyer some money, how much are they losing by not having someone looking out for their best interests 100%? Legally, the agent can't guide the buyer (or seller) in regards to price or terms.

In other words, if the property is listed at $400K, but is $25K overpriced and the buyer doesn't know that and offers full price minus say 3% (credit back from the agent to the buyer), they will still overpay by $13K. A buyer's agent could have saved them $13K if not more by negotiating the price down even further or by telling them that the home was overpriced and showing them a better valued home alltogether.

And price is only one way in which the agent can't influence either side. There are many other ways the buyer (and seller) can get in trouble by not each having their own agent representing them.

What you went through sucks, but it comes with the territory. But gaining trust and loyalty from your clients is key as seen clearly in your case.

Be always vigilant and let the clients know that they may be offered some kind of "deal" by a listing agent. Let them know that the "deal" will not benefit them in terms of price. I really think that single agents should not be able to double-end sales anyway.

Very unprofessional. Desperation is creeping up on us.

Leigh wow talk about underhanded but did you have an agreement with your buyer or like here in Idaho we have a buyer's Representation agreement which i think would have solved the preblem .

Joe,

We have Buyer's Agency Agreements in Virginia, as well. But they serve only as a retainer and the client can "fire" you at any time. If the buyer truly wanted to cut you out and go on their own to the listing agent, they could.

Yes, if you were procuring cause, you could try and go after the buyer for the commission. But is it worth the time, energy, money and the chance your reputation may get ruined?

Hi Leigh, just saw this and I feel your pain. I'm sure the agent saw an opportunity and tried to seize the moment. What goes around comes around and she will get hers.

MAR

Hi Leigh - great post - this just happened to me a few days ago. I've been working with these buyers for a while, they are also friendly acquaintances and got a tip from a friend about a house that "wasn't on the market". And no they were not under a buyer-broker agreement. The house was actually on the market and had been under contract with another buyer. But my buyers contacted the listing agent directly and the next the I know is they've made an offer. And I'm completely cut out of the deal. So needless to say that listing agent is totally on my s$%& list because I know my clients, they're very honest people and they would be upfront about me being there agent. So I'm confident this shark gave the the "I can save you money" spiel and some other lines to create urgency and bam - he has a new client. I was gracious with my clients and wished them the best of luck. In hindsight I should of at least mentioned to them that I wished they would have contacted me first before signing anything because I could have really helped them out tremendously.

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