Southern California Real Estate: Walking Away is Stupid


Last week was quite a week with mortgages bouncing up and down in a matter of days while Wall Street and the financial community tried to decide if the FED move was good, bad or mediocre. All of us in the South Bay-Beach Cities were also trying to decide how this cut and further cuts would affect our local real estate market.

Amid all the breaking news there have been a couple of related stories that tell a lot about the current housing crisis and the mindset of many consumers. Peter Viles who writes the The LATimes real estate blog LALand posted an article about people who were just walking away from their homes. One comment from a person who labeled herself as Condoblue wound up as another post. It seems that Condoblue has a mortgage that is getting ready to go up and her property has lost value.. so instead of making her payment ( which she can do) she plans to buy another home and walk away from her current home because it's good business.

Meanwhile over at CBS ....60 Minutes offered a report Sunday titled House of Cards:The Mortgage Mess. After all the requisite chat about rotten loan brokers and poor helpless buyers Steve Kroft talked to Matt and Stephanie Valdez, who bought a condo that went down in value. Although they too can make the payments they are contemplating walking away from the property... because it doesn't make sense to them to make the payment when prices are going down.

To Condoblue and Mr and Mrs Valdez I have three words... Shame on you! Didn't your parents teach you anything about ethics and values. You made a deal with the bank.. they would give you the money and you would pay them back. I don't believe the bank held a gun to your head or threatened to break your kneecaps if you didn't sign on the dotted line. However Condoblue and Mr and Mrs Valdez believe that only means something if prices are going up. If prices go down it seems that all bets are off. It appears that the only time someone has to honor a commitment or a contract is when it suits them.

What I found even more appalling was the number of people who seem to agree with them. Of the 69 comments about Condoblue most didn't find anything wrong with her stance to skip out on the old lender while she lied to the new lender. On the 60 Minutes site there were over 200 responses to the story. Those who found walking away offensive and wrong are barely in the majority.

It may seem to many that walking away is a no- brainer.. like returning a shirt to Nordstrom or a TV to Costco. But while Nordstrom will still take just about anything back... Costco had to change their policy on electronic items as consumers took advantage of them.

Those of you who say Banks are rotten and justify not honoring a contract by saying the principle is different are not getting the big picture. If you can afford to make your payments and choose to walk away you are taking advantage of not only the lender but all of us. In the case of Condoblue you are also committing loan fraud on your future purchase. For those of you who agree with this I have one word... DUMB!

Do any of you really believe that banks are going to let a bunch of people who can afford their payments walk away from their obligations without a consequence. They may not pay that consequence but I guarantee you will. You think the liquidity problem is tough now.. just wait. Banks make loans and charge for them based on risk. As more people who are not in dire straights walk from their obligations the banks are going to charge those looking for a loan a hefty premium to make up for their losses.

In addition to the costs of borrowing there is another little matter that may have escaped all of you who think that massive foreclosures are peachy because you will be able to buy a house cheap. You might want to rethink that if you work as a teacher, civil servant or for any state or government agency because you like their retirement benefits. If you have a company pension plan or use your 401K to buy stocks it might be a good idea to not be so gleeful. Most pension funds and mutual stock funds have part of their portfolios in financial stocks. B of A and WAMU are publicly traded companies.. if they tank so does any of the stock held by investors. Your pension fund or mutual fund could be one of those investors. That just might affect your benefits.

It's one thing when a little kid does something bad and tries to blame his imaginary friend. It's quite another when an adult decides to take no responsibility for their actions and skip out on their obligations. Frankly I have zip, zero, nada sympathy for Condoblue, Mr and Mrs Valdez or any of the others who are financially capable of making their payments but believe that walking out on a contract is OK. Aside from the fact that you are incredibly immature... you are also twits.


I bought my current home in 1991 at the top of the market. I watched the price go down and down. Yet it never occurred to me to walk away from my home or stiff the lender. It was not an option for me or any of the rest of us who hung on to our homes during some very bad times. I signed a contract and made a commitment. I stuck to that commitment.

That's not to say I didn't believe that ultimately my home would be worth more then I had paid for it... I knew that even as the market was tanking. I knew values would come back. I had a down payment to protect and I wasn't going to walk away from that. Also my parents taught me to honor an obligation. If I gave my word I stood by that. I still believe that is the way to handle any situation business or personal.

So to all of you who are walking away from your homes because you think you only need to honor an obligation when it suits you... Bad behavior is bad behavior no matter how you try to justify it...

 
Post is included in group: Southern California Real Estate Forum

22 Comments on Southern California Real Estate: Walking Away is Stupid

This shows the lack of responsibility that people have in today's society.  They don't learn from their mistakes, they dump them on someone else and move on.

01/29/2008 10:26 PM by Chris Frantz (Exit Success)


Good points Kaye.  But the reality of this market is much different than 1991.  Now, I'm not saying that there is not something inherently wrong with what people are doing, there is.  But the circumstances are just not the same.  You most likely did not get 100% financing in 1991.  So while prices came down, you had some equity. Also, you most likely did not get an ARM that would adjust in 2-3 years and cause your payment to double or triple overnight.  And of course the difference in what you paid and prices of a few years ago are night and day, and the price drop came fast...in other words...the perfect storm.  People got bad loans and now they just can't afford to make the payment.  So what choice do they have really?  If their payment now exceeds their income how can they possibly make the payment? Why they got into this situation is a completely different story.  People made bad decisions, or bought into the hype, and now they and us are having to pay for it.  SO I totally understand your frustration. To me the important part of this now is to help families keep their homes, and when that just won't happen, to get buyers into them that can afford them, with good loans, and watch their buying activity help to rekindle the market.  In other words, it's a great time to buy and will get even better in the coming months.  Just my thoughts. 

01/29/2008 10:52 PM by RealEstate.com, REALTORS®


I think you're confusing contract law with criminal law.  Contracts are made between two parties who agree to certain terms.  The borrower agreed to give up the house if it defaulted on its obligations.  That's what happened.  Nobody forced the lender to make the loan.  You are correct that it will have consequences on the rest of us in terms of economic impact due to higher rates and tightening standards, but this is simple economics, not a morality tale. 

01/29/2008 10:58 PM by Renting in Playa Vista


Chris- I'm not sure what the problem is but I do think it has to do with the concept of buying a home for as though it was a commodity rather then a place of shelter for you and your family..

Jason-I'm going to disagree with you..I had the option of choosing an adjustable rate loan but  I chose not to get an adjustable rate mortgage and opted for a fixed rate.  Prices were just as high compared to salaries as they are today.  I made a conservative choice based on what I knew I could pay.. that's one of the differences.

Also the people who I'm talking about are people who can afford the payment.. they have simply chosen not to make the payment but instead walk away... these are not people who lost their job or got divorced or had a major crisis.  The just don't like their payment and the value went down instead of up.. so they are going to bail. These people knew exactly what they were doing.. they gambled and lost and now they don't want to pay the price..

Playa-No I don't think I'm confusing the two types of law.  Fraud occurs if you enter into a contract and withhold material facts.  Walking away from one place and allowing it to go into foreclosure and buying another without disclosing that fact is fraud..period.  That's the way the government views it. 

You are right...No one forced the lender to make the loan or the buyer to accept the loan.  However  the lender did what he promised...put up the money based on the borrowers agreement to pay... not based on whether or not they felt like paying... that's the difference.

01/30/2008 12:02 AM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


Kaye,

I too remember the folks that just "walked away" in the 90's. And of course it's different for some, who truly cannot make the payments... there were plenty of folks who just decided they owed (at the time) more on the loan that it was worth and walked. Yet within the same decade they couldn't every buy-back the same home they abandoned.

01/30/2008 01:30 PM by Orange Co. Real Estate~Lynda Eisenmann, Broker-Owner, Brea, CA (Preferred Home Brokers)


Lynda-That's the bankers revenge...I talked with a gentleman a few weeks ago who was telling me how careful he was going to be this time around as he bought in 1990 and watched the value of his townhome drop $40,000.  The irony is that if he had kept that property.. 1 block from the beach.. It would have been worth 4 times what he paid.. but he didn't get that.. All he saw was that the price had gone down for a couple of years...not how much he lost by not keeping the property.

01/30/2008 05:25 PM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


Cannot believe a real estate agent would have the nerve to preach to anyone about "ethics". Love how your industry has put the blame on the mortgage brokers when it was the agents who were making a killing luring unsuspecting buyers into the "American Dream". Buyers would look to the agents to assess the value of the market but 99% of agents could not even fullfill that basic obligation. Let me remind you of the NAR mantra of "real estate never goes down". Agents are knee deep in fraud all over Southern California and the only reason agents are not being thrown in jail is because of the FBI backlog. It was the agents who lured the buyers into those loans. Please do not try to rewrite history. Your monopoly on the MLS, the illusion of 6%, and the shameless lobbying to not only raise loan limits but stop regulation of the mortgage inustry when it was most needed is well documented. Ten years from now hopefully there will be no such thing as a "real estate agent". The world would be better off. Now go back to your shameless marketing and spin.

02/03/2008 11:31 PM by OMG


OMG- I don't believe any one group has exclusive use of the word ethics.   It may surprise you to know that there are a number of real estate agents who are very ethical.. just as there are a number of consumers who are not.   While I agree that NAR has made some pretty silly statements I don't believe  they ever said that real estate never comes down.  Real estate is cyclical by nature.  California has 7-10 year cycles.  It has always been that way and it will continue to be that way in the future.  I've been through a lot of markets like this one.. each is a little alike and a little different. 

Your anger is misplaced.  Buyers and sellers determine and control the market not agents.  If agents could control the market as you seem to believe do you think we would let it get to this point?  I have no problem with regulation of the loan industry and frankly think it should be regulated.  In 2005  when I started my other blog I posted a number of articles about the dangers of interest only loans and negative amortized loans.   Over the last few years I have continually advised my clients to obtain conventional financing.  I'm not much for gimmicks and I know the dangers of things that are too good to be true.

You have to work with the market as it is at any given time.  When a market is moving upward then clients need that information.  If the market is moving downward they also need that information.  Telling consumers what is happening in a given... market good or bad isn't fraud it is what my clients expect from me. 

As for higher conforming loan limits I absolutely believe they should apply in CA and other high priced areas.  Housing prices may go down but they will always be significantly higher then in most of the country.  I don't think it's fair that consumers who live in CA should pay a penalty for that. Californians have been paying that price for the 29 years I have been selling real estate. Do you think that's fair?

 I can't help but wonder if you are so angry because you are thinking about "walking away"? 

02/04/2008 02:29 AM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


Kaye,

Great information in the above post. I have been recently trying to work a short sale in Rocklin for about the last 4 weeks, and he calls me this morning saying"he can't deal with the anxiety of the bank any longer, and he is just going to give back the house"

I said" Mr. Client I have informed you of why a short sale would be your best option FICO score, be able to buy a house again,etc... on and on I went" The client responded "I just can't do this anymore I'm tired of the headaches PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME AGAIN" and then he hung up on me.

I was almost sick to my stomach that he just does not get it, this was a great alternative for him so that he would not file bankruptcy, and lose everything he has worked so hard for the past 8 years.

Now it is not about me getting paid, it is about trying to help people, who don't seem to understand that us(Realtors & Mortgage Originators) are being sincere, that we are trying to help them out, and we aren't taking advantage of these people. We are trying to help the problems in the real estate business not add to them.

02/04/2008 12:33 PM by Bernie Germani (American Signature Funding)


Bernie- Consumers don't get it when they each this point.  They are in major denial and deep down believe that somehow this will not really happen.. Something is going to occur that will save them.  I've seen it time and time again.. it's easier to get mad at the bank or an agent or anyone rather then accept responsibility for what is happening. 

 I'm not saying that some people were not misled but the majority who are in trouble were active participants in the problem.  I had clients who would not listen to me as they refinanced into interest only loans.  For two years I started my newsletter with a plea to refinance into a more conservative loan.    Sadly when reality/foreclosure finally strikes it is never because they made a poor choice somewhere along the line it is always someone else's fault..

02/04/2008 01:50 PM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


Kaye

I wholeheartedly agree with you.....for all of those who purchased in '87 (I did), '92 (again, I did), 96 (yup, did it again) and then again '98, if you attempted to sell within 18 months of that time, you were 99.9% certain to be underwater...and if you'd walked away, you would've left subtantial sums of equity on the table. Trust me...I know....I had the guts to carry the mortgages without any thought of walking away, had great cash flow, and some wonderful equity that I gained along the way.

02/04/2008 04:39 PM by Bill Nazur (Nazur Enterprises, Inc. & BAMG)


Bill-  It's hard to make money in real estate if you don't buy and hold.. Contrary to what the media says most flippers don't make much money by flipping..

02/04/2008 04:56 PM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


Bravo, Kaye. I missed this before. That kind of behavior is sickening, especially when you consider folks who DO want to stay but truly cannot afford it. Wonder what will happen it they has to justify hardship? And the fraud piece? Well, nuff said.

Jeff 

02/04/2008 10:37 PM by Jeff Dowler ~ Carlsbad Real Estate (RE/MAX Associates)


Jeff- It makes it hard on everyone.. it's one thing if you can't make the payment but it is quite another when you just bail because life didn't quite work as you had planned.. Makes you wonder how they handle other aspects of their lives..

02/04/2008 11:23 PM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


Everyone will have their own opinion regarding the morality of breaching a contract that you can afford to honor.  Those opposed to such action will play the morality card, and those in favor of such action will simply call it a business decision.  The fact of the matter is that both sides are right to an extent.

Legally, a borrower with ability to continue to service his mortgage can certainly decide, as a business decision, to stop doing so.  The contract has a provision that is directly on point - the lender takes the property.  That is the deal, in black and white.  In cases involving the original purchase money loan(s) in CA, the lender has no other recourse other than to take the property.  This being the case, what we are ultimately going to see plenty of in CA (and other bubble states with non-recourse loans as the law) are borrowers with ability to pay who are well underwater on their homes playing chicken with their lenders.  Lenders will be forced to modify loan terms, including writing down the loan balance to the current FMV, or the borrower is going to walk. 

A borrower who is anticipating walking from his existing home and who prior to doing so purchases the home across the street for $250K less has not committed fraud by not advising the new lender of his intent to walk.  And as long as the borrower qualifies for the new loan and makes their payments, why in the world would the new lender even consider a fraud action?  Not going to happen, folks. 

More shocking to me than anything else is attitude of the lending industry over the past 10 years as requirements have become looser and looser.  NINJA loans?  Are you kidding me?!  100 financing?  Neg-am loans?  Are you kidding me?!  The lenders that created and funded these ridiculously risky instruments are taking it on the chin, and it's very hard to feel sympathy for those that made such idiotic business decisions. 

02/14/2008 02:15 PM by RSS


RSS- While I agree that lenders are now in a place of reaping what they have sown so to speak..I'm afraid I still find fault with your premise that it is OK to walk from a contract just because..... You may think lenders will make all these accommodations and adjustments .. and you may be right over the short term.. However if you think this won't affect the mortgage market in the long term you are mistaken. 

If you think lying to a lender is not fraud then I wonder just what your definition is.  You are naive if you think that a person who feels no obligation to honor one contract, and uses fraud to obtain another is going to honor that one.  Lenders are slow not stupid and you can bet there will be a cost penalty for that type of behavior.

Rates will take into account the number of those who walk away. Liquidity will continue to shrink and money will be very expensive as lenders up the price of funds based on the  potential risk of no one actually completing their obligation to repay the note.  In dollars and cents.. lender are going to make everyone pay for the actions of those who have stiffed them. I suspect you will not be so gleeful when you are charged a substantial penalty to cover the costs to the lender because your buddy chose to play games. 

02/15/2008 12:31 AM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


To Whom It May Concern:

    I want to thank you before hand for taking the time to read this and hopefully be able to help.  My name is Mark Cuny and I reside in Wildomar, Ca. I purchased my first home in October 2006 while I was in Iraq doing contract work. My sister was my power of attorney and signed all the paperwork for me. We found a brand new home in the Wildomar/Murrieta area with Beazer homes, and I was pre-approved right away because of my good credit and income. At the time, I was pre-approved for 100% financing with an interest rate at 6% on the 1st loan (80%) and 8% on the 2nd loan (20%). Beazer Homes said that if I used their mortgage company they would throw in 20K in upgrades and pay for my closing costs. They also said they could beat my lst mortgage interest rate with a 5.5% interest only 5 Year ARM vs. the 6% my bank was offering. This sounded perfect! Little did we know, the loan officer was crooked. She verbally told us the rate was 5.5%, and when my sister signed the loan paperwork, she also explained it to her that it was a 5.5% interest only 5 Year ARM. What she neglected to say and point out in the large stack of loan papers was that the 5.5% rate was a negative amortization rate, and that my REAL interest rate is 8.5%. (Linda Smith and Beazer Mortgage would be making a killing on this loan by marking my interest rate up - that meant a great deal of money in Linda's pocket - at my expense!)

Once I received my closing paperwork and first mortgage statement - we realized we had been conned. Needless to say, I love this home and want to keep it. I have perfect credit and decided to pay the 8.5% interest rate for a year and then just refinance when my one year prepayment penalty was up. This meant I was stuck in Iraq doing contract work for a year more than I planned. This also meant leaving behind my new wife (married in 3/2007) in a large home all by herself. I am working to pay for a home I cannot even live in or enjoy. Now a year later with the decline in home values,I cannot even refinance. EMC Mortgage could easily give me a loan modification, but they say I have to leave my job in IRAQ and fall behind on my payments before they will assist me. This is crazy! I am basically risking my life to be able to pay down all my other bills so I can hopefully one day come home and join the police force and afford my mortgage. I have worked too hard to have a credit score of above 720 to just throw it all away because Beazer Mortgage/Linda Smith and EMC Mortgage are not ethical. Note: I am not the only buyer that Beazer Mortgage conned. My next-door neighbor is in the same scenario.

This is the dilemma that plagues our streets.  There is 4 or more homes alone on my street that are foreclosed and more to follow; they are even continuing to build more when they can’t even sell the ones they finished.  This is causing home pries to drop heavily and if they continue to do business the way they do, it will hurt Wildomar bad.  I would like your help to ask why this happened against Beazer.  How they could allow this to happen and the trouble it has caused this community!  Please help me to correct this and put and end to Beazers moneymaking schemes.






Sincerely,

Mark

02/24/2008 03:56 AM by Mark California


Mark- You are not the person I'm writing about here.  Your situation is one of those currently being investigated by the Federal  government and Attorney General of California Jerry Brown.  I would contact Jerry Brown's office immediately.  I would also contact EMC Mortgage and let them know you plan to contact the California Attorney General if they do not make changes in your loan immediately. 

There is no excuse for what happened to you and all involved should be held accountable for their actions.  

02/24/2008 12:20 PM by Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas... (Real Estate West)


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Real Estate Agent: Manhattan Beach CA/ e-PRO..... Kaye Thomas...  (Real Estate West)
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