Mortgage Fraud- Why Your Sellers Should Not Talk To The Buyers Without Their Agent!

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Mortgage Fraud- Why Your Sellers Should Not Talk To The Buyers Without Their Agent!

Sellers- This is why you have an agent. Agents- This is why you must instruct your sellers not to talk to the buyers!

Mortgage Fraud The agent called to make an appointment to show one of our listings. Our sellers were at home and happened to be home when the buyers came over with their agent. The buyers fell in love with the house. The agent tells us they will make an offer. After a few days we still don't have an offer from these buyers so Nestor calls the agent to get the feedback as to why they did not pursue their offer.

The buyers told their agent that they liked our sellers so much and did not want to hurt their feelings because they felt the pride that our sellers had for their home. The buyers were only qualified for a certain amount for a loan and our listing was well over that price.

My first question is: Why are you showing a house that is out of the price range of what your buyer is qualified to pay?

Nestor with his great communication skills tells the agent to just make the offer. If it offends the sellers than he will deal with that. The agent procures the offer and we start negotiations until we come to a meeting of the minds between the parties. The agent tells us her buyers are approved and we get the mortgage broker information to follow up.

Their lender tells us everything is fine. Then one evening our sellers get a call from the buyers. The buyers tell our sellers that they must come over to talk to them. The sellers allow them to come over. The buyers show up with no agent.

The buyers tell the sellers that their lender just told them that they can not do the contract the way that it is written. They want the sellers and them to rewrite the contract without the Realtors involved and do a second note under the table after closing. >HELLO! What is wrong with this picture! Mortgage Fraud

Now you must understand that the sellers just saw all their dreams of moving unraveling before their eyes, the time spent packing their boxes to accommodate a fast closing looks at first glance like such a waste of time. They are in no emotional state to make this decision. That is why they have AGENTS!

They called us straight away and they called their attorney who was going to do the closing. We told them that this is called Mortgage Fraud and we will have no part in it and neither should they. We spoke to their attorney and he said that as the closing agent he must testify that the only proceeds and the only deals are the ones on the HUD1 closing statement and that he knew we would not go along with this. He concurred that this is Mortgage Fraud!

Our sellers would in no way ever willingly or knowingly participate in mortgage fraud. They felt like something was wrong. They could feel this just stunk! Can you just imagine if they had participated in this deal? The sellers said what if they did this and after the closing, what type of assurance did they have that the buyers would even execute the second mortgage and if they stopped paying and the sellers tried to foreclose, can you see the conversation? NOT GOOD!

So back on the market goes our listing and the sellers will now tell any buyers that they must bring all their conversations through their agents. Mortgage Fraud is not acceptable!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Posted by Nestor & Katerina Gasset Realtors® Wellington Florida Homes For Sale on 01/29/2008 09:48 PM

Comments (48)

mortgage fraud

Originally posted at: South Florida Real Estate and...: Mortgage Fraud- Why Your Sellers Should Not Talk To The Buyers Without Their Agent!

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48 Comments on Mortgage Fraud- Why Your Sellers Should Not Talk To The Buyers Without Their Agent!

JAN

2008

Thank goodness that they called and talked with you about it first!

Some folks will do anything to save a buck! Thankfully your Sellers were smart enough to notify you before they partook in fraud!

Sheri Sanders -Easley,SC Real Estate

Sheri- I freaked out when I saw your comment. I thought I was in draft! I added my images now. Thanks for your comment. Katerina

Debe Maxwell

Debe- I think that these buyers just really wanted to buy the home and would do anything to get it. I am glad they told us! Katerina

Very good call, this is why the housing market is in the shape that it is in.

Chris Frantz

Chris- Thanks for adding a comment. Katerina

Hi Katerina...and I thought I had bad days...When there is money involved people, well some people, will try anything to make more for themselves..bent the rules, cheat the Realtor out of a commission, lie to the Mortgage company and the list goes on, Thank God your seller called you.

Great post keeping us all aware of these Crooks, may some of your fellow brokers and Realtors in Florida might like their names.

Have a better week!

Fred Carver,Victoria BC Realtor

Fred- Thank you for your comment. I really don't think they were crooks. I think they wanted to buy the house. Just not in the right way. Katerina

It never ends. The Fraud continues. People just to think about how bad this really is because the Mortgage company is probably telling them that it is done all of the time.

JAN

2008

Katerina~

This is the kind of post so useful for Rookies in the business...I am going to pass it on to two of my Provisional Brokers...THX for taking the time to share.

Amazing. When things don't pass the smell test...there's usually a reason. Your sellers knew something wasn't right. People try this stuff because they know sooner or later they will find a seller who will go along with the scheme. Glad your sellers didn't get involved.

Stella Barbour - Real Estate Agent - Serving Northern Virginia

Stella- You are right, it just keeps going on and on. The mortgage lady did not tell them that. She called me to explain what had happened and she got me the denial letter, never told them they could buy the house under the table. Katerina

janeAnne, "Green-o-Lina" e-PRO, ECO, Owner/Broker

janeAnne- You are welcome. Agents need to advise their sellers to only speak through their agents. Katerina

Fairbanks, Alaska Realtors ~ Jesse & Kathy Clifton ~

Jesse and Kathy, I am not sure this was the case. I think they fell in love with homes out of their reach, they thought they could do something, found out they could not and then more out of desperation of wanting the house tried to get the house anyways. But we will not be a party to any mortgage fraud even if it is not malicious. Katerina

Katerina~The buyers had to have known this wasn't right. I'm so in shock that they would risk such a conversation. As for the lender, I hope that person gets turned in for attempting to make such a bad move. That is a big contributing factor as to why we are going through all the changes in our market right now. To clean up the mess by fraudulent activities. Thank YOU for sharing your story and keeping our eyes even more open to what is lurking about.

Where was their agent in all this? What did they have to say? Did they know this happened? Did you report the lender who must have told them what to do? Sorry for all the questions... just trying to get more details.

Katerina - Many consumers do not understand the law, but I think everyone knows right from wrong. To hide, deceive, lie overtly, or lie by omission is wrong. Mortgage Fraud is now a felony if convicted.

I love to read about others' experiences. It helps keep us alert for these fraudulent activities.

the buyers should file a written complaint against the lender with the appropriate regulatory agency.

we need to end this type of activity.

Katerina, I wish I could write that I am shocked... but sadly I am not. As far as your question as to why another Realtor would show a home over what the person qualified for. This happened to me. I had a client who was qualifed for only so much but her Realtor kept showing her more expensive homes. (Of course you know she is going to like the more expensive homes) When my client told the Realtor that Matt only qualified her for X she told her don't worry I know a Mortgage person that can do anything. (I guess that means mortgage fraud)

Hi... Have our news media and all the powers that be taught the general public nothing??.. I hope it works out for ya ..GOd Bless

KATERINA - It just goes to show that despite all of our hard work, there are still people that will do whatever they can to cut us out of the transaction if it gets them what they want. I'm glad that your sellers called you and you were able to help them avert potential legal problems down the road.

Katerina, I am sorry to hear this is still happening! I would have thought with all the trouble we're in this type of activity would have stopped; but I guess those people will always be around. It certainly drives home the point you need to work with an educated and knowledable realtor like you and Nestor.

Julie Neerings, GRI Utah REALTOR®

Julie- The mortgage company had nothing to do with this that we know of. She was very good and told us right away that they did not qualify. Her problem was that she did not know the guidelines and was told by the rep that the deal could be done. After she submitted the underwriter said buyer was turned down for non conforming. So I am not placing any blame on the mortgage lady. Katerina

Missy Caulk Ann Arbor Real Estate

Missy- I can not disclose more details but the buyer is in the position to know this info. The mortgage lady followed the rules. She turned in the deal to the rep, who told her it would fly, but it is an FHA, so the total of 1st and 2nd would have to be only to conforming limits. The original deal with seller carrying 2nd that we had in the deal put the deal too high for FHA. Therefore the mortgage was turned down. After it was turned down, the buyers called the sellers.

My question exactly, where was their agent? She stands by that they were not trying to screw us. She says she knows them well and that they just wanted the house. Agent was at the FAR convention during this time.

Bradenton Florida Real Estate - Dan Forbes REALTOR®

Dan- Thanks for your comment. Inside of each of us, there is a still small voice that guides us and tells us right from wrong. Sometimes our wants are so much stronger that they drown out that voice.

I know of an agent that accepted a 9% subsidy on a contract. That closing almost didn't happen, but at the settlement table things were ironed out and it did close. What I don't understand is how that 9% didn't raise an immediate red flag long before date of settlement.

Sellers should never talk to buyers without the agent there - that is the best way to have a deal go sour -

That is just crazy! I always tell my sellers to talk a walk around the block during showings or grab a coffee at Starbucks. But I can also see how folks trying to polite, would want to engage in friendly conversation.

Katerina, I have a rule in my life: Don't put a round peg in a square whole (or is it the other way around?). When the broker said they couldn't qualify I think I might have let it go at that point. What is meant to be will be.

Bill Roberts

Ok, thanks.

Latonia Parks

Latonia- Thanks for your comment and it is great that you are wanting to learn. Katerina

Jay Beckingham

The lender did not do anything wrong. The lender turned down the loan. I would rather know why the agent was showing this house to them.Katerinaa

Matthew J Blum - MyFavoriteMortgage.net

Matthew- I don't get it! A mortgage broker who can do anything! Not good!

Mike Norvell Sr., Mid-Florida Real Estate

Mike- I guess not! What a shame.

Adam Waldman - Long Island Real Estate

Adam- We are very glad they called us! And I am glad they had an ethical attorney.

Carole Provenzale Owner, Feng Shui Long Island

Carole- That was nice! Thanks for your confidence in us.

Sally Zatkoff

Sally- I am at loss to how the lender let that one by.

JAN

2008

i'm sorry, i must have read this wrong.

the lender told them to rewrite the contract without the realtors. i would call that unethical at least.

the lender told them to write a silent second. that's fraudulent.

i'd call both of those wrong.

just one man's opinion.

Jay Beckingham

Jay- No, the lender did not tell them to rewrite the contract,

no, the lender did not tell them to do a silent second.

The buyers took it upon themselves. When the buyers did this, their mortgage person was not even available. I wish I could tell you what the buyer does for a living so you then would know it was not the mortgage broker who put this in his head, but because of liable and sue happy people I will not disclose that at this time.

You are totally right, this is still wrong and unethical. But the mortgage broker's mistake was she did not further question the rep from the lender as to whether the second had to be within conforming limits or not. She is the person who told them the loan got turned down, and told us, nothing more, nothing less.

This was the buyers own decision and their own idea.

Jay Beckingham

Jay- I just re read my post and I see where the misunderstanding is, I am sorry, I did not make it clear in the paragraph:

The buyers tell the sellers that their lender just told them that they can not do the contract the way that it is written. They want the sellers and them to rewrite the contract without the Realtors involved and do a second note under the table after closing.

BAD GRAMMAR on my part! The word THEY should be The BUYERS.

SORRY!

Don't you hate it when this happens!!! I'm glad your sellers have faith in you guys and did the right thing by calling you.

I had a realtor a few days ago who had made arrangements to show one of my owner occupied property. 2 hours after they were supposed to show my seller called to say they hadn't. I called the realtor who very casually said she didn't have time to take the buyers by since she had another appointment but that the buyer would be stopping by after dinner to see the house!!!! She didn't see anything wrong with just telling the buyers to show up 6 hours late, knock on the door and have the sellers show them the house. Needless to say I wasn't a happy camper. OK I guess I'm off topic:)

FEB

2008

Kat, this stinks. What did the other agent have to say about this? My blood pressure is rising because of this. Were they also trying to get around their agents or was the second to be paid to you under the table? I realize this doesn't matter...it was all fraud. It's just mind boggling. Deb

Bryant Tutas, Broker-REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Bryant- Join the club. We have agents that live in Ft Lauderdale and make appointments for their buyers to come see houses, about an hour away, but a lot of people move up here from there. Then the buyers come by themselves and say their agent will write up the offer! I now send a bill to agents who do that! You will get your fee but I am going to get paid for doing your job.

Debra A. Brooks, Texas Waterfront Specialist

The other agent did not know what was going on. She was at the FAR convention. It is a dead deal now. I am glad the sellers told us.

Another one for the books. Stay tuned for many more stries of fraud as desperation kick in.

Thanks for the story. There is plenty of room in the market for those that do it right and as far as I can tell there will always be fraud in real estate as long as there is still money in it.

Tom Elder

Tom- Fraud is in all businesses, all walks of life, it has no preference of rich or poor. It has come to light much more in this mortgage melt down.Thanks for your comment.

AUG

2009

Hi guys. For visions come not to polluted eyes. I am from Morocco and know bad English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "Cash advance loans provide people some extra short term cash in between paychecks without having to lay themselves open to revolving debt." Thank you very much :-D. Bardo.

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