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Sometimes the Job Sucks, Other Times it Blows

By
Home Inspector with JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC HOI 394

We've all had them, done them, bad jobs. You might even find a song or three about crumby jobs. It's said they build character, one must "pay their dues" to get ahead. That may be true. Yet no matter how you phrase it, no matter how play it, it just sucks!

A furnace in a Connecticut house without a return duct installedTake for example this furnace install. Bad work, work that is done without care or in this instance without regard for the safety of the occupants of the house is not just bad, it's criminal.

Now you might be looking at this furnace and asking, What exactly is wrong? I would absolutely expect most people, homeowners, not to know. Which is exactly why, the company, the people that you hire have been give a huge amount of trust to do the job correctly and safely.

The biggest problem with this install is that the system lacks return ducts. The air filter at the return plenum at the bottom of the unit is "filtering" air taken directly from the mechanical room, not the living space. You will also notice another heating system, a gas boiler, sticking into the picture at the right. Also present in this cozy little room are three gas fired water heaters. All four of these appliances are atmospherically vented, meaning that the gases from combustion vent naturally, without powered assistance.

Atmospherically vented gas water heaters in a Connecticut houseWhen a furnace fires up, the burner warms up the heat exchanger, and then the blower inside the furnace, just behind that air filter, begins to spin pushing warm air into the house. A furnace fan, a blower, is designed to move a lot of air. Anyone who has felt the warm air blowing from a single supply duct will understand the force is strong. Now multiply that by 10 or more and you can understand the force of the air being pushed throughout the ducts in a forced air system.

What blows must also suck. In other words, you can not blow air into a closed space, the force of resistance will stop the flow. Therefore a return duct is necessary to create a recirculating system.

This is efficient. This is safe.

However placing the return in the same room with the furnace is strictly verboten. That same duct also can not be within 10 feet of any atmospherically vented appliance.

Why?

Because all that sucking the furnace fan does creates a huge vacuum in the room if so installed. It vacuums the air from the room. It also vacuums the combustion gases from the atmospherically vented appliances. Where do those combustion gases then end up? They are very efficiently distributed through out the living space through the supply ducts.Back venting water heater in a Connecticut house

The picture of the top of one of the three water heaters near the furnace shows that severe back venting has been occurring, judging from the condition, for a very long time. Notice the melted plastic rings around the pipes.

While some jobs may be bad, when it comes to the job of a furnace, all the blowing and sucking must be done in a harmonious, and above all, safe equilibrium.

 

 

Posted by

James Quarello
Connecticut Home Inspector
Former SNEC-ASHI President
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC

 ASHI Certified Inspector

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Nina Hollander, Broker
Coldwell Banker Realty - Charlotte, NC
Your Greater Charlotte Realtor

Great information... for me as a homeowner and as an agent.

Apr 13, 2013 10:47 PM
Beth and Richard Witt
New York, NY
The best Retired Brokers !!!!

Love the Title and for sure the post is loaded with great info... Happy Day...

Apr 13, 2013 10:53 PM
Barbara Altieri
Better Homes and Gardens RE Shore and Country Properties - Shelton, CT
REALTOR-Fairfield County CT Homes/Condos For Sale

Wow. Jim. That's some really nasty stuff just waiting to happen. Great explanation and education....per usual.

Apr 13, 2013 11:02 PM
Michael Setunsky
Woodbridge, VA
Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA

James, great explanation of how a return air system works. Isn't this a code issue?

Apr 13, 2013 11:16 PM
Dick Greenberg
New Paradigm Partners LLC - Fort Collins, CO
Northern Colorado Residential Real Estate

Hi James - I may be a bit limited in knowledge when it comes to mechanical systems such as HVAC, but even I would have spotted that one as a hugely dangerous mistake and complete incompetence. Would that not have been inspected for permitting?

Apr 13, 2013 11:39 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Mark, It should be just the good, but...

John, Hence the trust we place in those that do.

Fred, It does and I do.

Barbara, I'm quite certain there were no of those.

David, Yep.

Andrew, pride should go into every job you do no matter how big or small as you have said.

Jay, The furnace I think looks older than it actually may be. The water heater waaaaay past it life expectancy. 

Nina, Glad to hear It was helpful.

Richard & Beth, Thanks.

Barbara, Thanks. It is very nasty.

Michael, Yes, absolutely. Those paramters I mentioned come from the mechanical codes. 

Dick, Would is not the word, should have been, but clearly it was not. 

Apr 13, 2013 11:55 PM
Gary L. Waters Broker Associate, Bucci Realty
Bucci Realty, Inc. - Melbourne, FL
Eighteen Years Experience in Brevard County

Good information here. It all seems logical but without an understanding of this...well you get bad installations.

Apr 14, 2013 12:48 AM
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

I like getting in touch with the part of me that doesn't know things....WHY? Because I will now know something soon enough...case in point

Apr 14, 2013 01:05 AM
Helen and Larry Prier- Re-Max Gateway - Residential Real Estate
RE-MAX Gateway- Residential Real Estate Sales - Anacortes, WA
Anacortes & surrounding Skagit & Island Counties

Great informaton for furnace owners everywhere.

Apr 14, 2013 01:06 AM
Mike Cooper, Broker VA,WV
Cornerstone Business Group Inc - Winchester, VA
Your Neighborhood Real Estate Sales Pro

James, I do see a lot of sloppy work, but I rarely see work that has the potential to kill people.  This contractor should be arrested.  Enough said.

Apr 14, 2013 05:16 AM
Charles Buell
Charles Buell Inspections Inc. - Seattle, WA
Seattle Home Inspector

So from green monster to green menace---and not the incredible hulk either:)

Apr 14, 2013 10:48 AM
Kathy Schowe
California Lifestyle Realty - La Quinta, CA
La Quinta, California 760-333-8886

Such a catchy title... I had to read it!!  Kathy

Apr 14, 2013 10:50 AM
Christine Donovan
Donovan Blatt Realty - Costa Mesa, CA
Broker/Attorney 714-319-9751 DRE01267479 - Costa M
James - This is something I certainly wouldn't have noticed. This is why inspections are so important.
Apr 14, 2013 01:21 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Gary, Which is why there is trust. Some chose to ignore that trust.

Richie, Yes, I do too. It is good to learn.

Helen & Larry, Thanks.

Don, That doesn't sound like a water heater problem, but instead a venting issue. 

Mike, Agreed.

Charlie, It's not its fault. Blame the the person who installed it.

Kathy, I thought it might be :)

Christine, Like I said, I wouldn't expect most people to know, that is one reason why the install is criminal. 

Apr 14, 2013 09:00 PM
Amanda Christiansen
Christiansen Group Realty (260)704-0843 - Fort Wayne, IN
Christiansen Group Realty

Catchiest title I have EVER read!  Well done!!  LOL!!                                                                                            

Apr 14, 2013 10:03 PM
Anonymous
Annette Odren

If the occupants were not suffering from symptoms of CO poisoning that place must leak like a sieve.  If an uneducated contractor were to come along and airseal without fixing the combustion safety issues... they'd all be dead.  Good article.

Apr 15, 2013 01:41 AM
#23
Charlie Dresen
The Group, Inc - Steamboat Springs, CO
Steamboat Springs, CO e-Pro

Your title just goes to show we have GOT to catch people's attention in the title. I was looking for something totally different but stopped at your article just because of the title. Well done in -  all respects. Thanks.

Apr 15, 2013 04:58 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Amanda & Jared, Ever!? Wow, that's great. Now how do I top that :)

Annette, You bring up several good points. Fortunately, this was an older house without much if any insulation that I saw. As for air sealing, there seems to be a lot of minimally trained people in that and associated businesses from what I see here. This particular issue I believe is not well understood. I have actually seen analyst find back venting and then state the solution is to tighten the house! 

Charlie, Thanks. Hope it was worth the read. And btw, what were you expecting :)

Apr 15, 2013 09:45 PM
John J. Woods
Big Dog Press, LLC - Winder, GA
Going where no man has gone before - wouldn't you?

 

   I'd have to imagine that the HVAC system was installed when the house was built, just on the evidence of the supply ducting.  Absolutely AMAZING that this ever passed inspection and that the house was ever signed off for occupancy!  This is a major life/safety issue.  I'd be surprised if the occupants didn't wake up with headaches all the time.

 

Apr 21, 2013 02:40 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

John, The system was a retrofit. The house is several decades older than that furnace. There is nothing amazing about this passing inspection, I guarantee it was never permitted or inspected. 

Apr 21, 2013 06:20 AM