Overwhelming!  How long did it take you to write the report?

Actually, there was no report. In addition to inspecting, I am a project superintendent for a mid sized construction company in NYC. I find myself involved in many different types of projects. Residential, commercial, institutional, etc. Besides my own projects, I troubleshoot problems for the entire company. They haven't stumped me yet. When I build something, I do it through the eyes of an inspector.

I see a lot wrong with this wiring. I'mholding off to give folks a chance to check it out and comment.

Steven, at the top right there is a black, red and white wire coming into the panel.  Where does the black wire go to?  The other two are double tapped where they shouldn't be---looks like a mess to me.

Yes Charles, there is a second leg. The black is feeding a different sub panel in the apartment below.

What else?

Well if that is the wire feeding the panel pictured, then I would say that there is only the same 120 amps to both lugs of the panel.  Hope they don't have a 240 range.

Right on, Charles. 120 volts.

There is double lugging, but more important, each apartment has it's own main shut off, independant of each other. If one is off and the other is still on, the panel that is off still has lethal shock potential. There should be breaker ties.

I freak everytime I see that old cloth covered wiring still in use.

Everytime I have run into that stuff , such as changing a luminaire it would crumble on me.

I notice a few of the neutral look rather long.

I take it the ground is through conduit.

Steve whats going on with the brass bolt on the main neutral?

Looks like you have a couple of different brand breakers too with the conductor on the left at the first Square D 20 amp seeming to come straight down and not be screwed in properly.

Hey Bob,

How's it going?

The panel is being fed from above, as you can see, there is a red, black, and white conductor coming in.

The red hot is feeding the first bus, double tapped and jumped to the second bus. They have taken a 240v volt panel and wired it 120v.

The white neutral is double tapped and continuing out to the panel that is servicing the apartment below.

The black hot is also passing through to the panel in the apartment below.

Yes the wiring is old, but it isn't in bad condition.

The biggest problem in this panel is that the multi wire circuit that is sharing the same neutral is not tied together at the main breakers. The potential danger is that if one circuit blows or is shut down, the second remains live and there is a potential shock hazzard.

Not the kind of sub panels I see .Yikes

Going well, went full time.

Also giving my first public talk on Home Inspector Pro of all things.

"The biggest problem in this panel is that the multi wire circuit that is sharing the same neutral is not tied together at the main breakers. The potential danger is that if one circuit blows or is shut down, the second remains live and there is a potential shock hazzard."

That is an issue Steven, but a more onerous situation exists for the occupant by way of fire hazard.

Since the MWB circuit is being fed from one 120v leg the neutral serving the circuit is carrying the sum of the loads rather than the difference in the loads.

Properly wired, that is wired from two different legs, the MWB circuit would only carry the difference of the loads, so if one circuit was drawing 14 amps and the other was 13 amps, the neutral would carry only 1 amp. The most the neutral could carry is the full load from one circuit if the other circuit had no load, ie, the dishwasher is on an the disposer isn't.

The way this mwb circuit is wired, from one leg, means that if one circuit is drawing 14 amps and the other is drawing 13 amps, the neutral is carrying 27 amps.  I've found many mwb circuits running from the same leg because they were wired on space saver, or mini breakers. The neutrals serving these circuits are always the color of toast.

Chad,

I understand what you mean about the loads being additive, but is that the situation here?  You mention one hot  leg, but there are two. Each of a separate bus, one serving each circuit.

The problem is both bus are being fed from  the same leg.  In reality it's the same as having one bus.

Pretty risky business! They've been fortunate to not have had problems already.  Nice post Steven!

Hey Chad,

Ok, Now I know what you are talking about. I agree it's like having one big Bus, feeding off one leg that is feeding off one Bus in the main. The other leg is feeding off a different Bus in the main. If both legs were feeding off the same lug/bus in the main, then the load on the neutral would be additive. Yes? NO? Maybe?

Regardless of the the bus bar attachment at the main panel, it would be dangerous to have two hots that are sharing a neutral going to different locations (panels). The neutral is still caring the difference in load and would energize metal components in the other panel----of course if the two lines do share the same bus bar back at the main panel, that would be even more dangerous.  Hopefully the neutral isn't also bonded to the remote panels----to compound the issue.

That is what I meant about the circuit breakers not being tied together. The neutrals are not bonded to the panels, it is a sub panel.