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Can the owner supply materials for the contractor to install on a 203k

By
Home Inspector with 203kOnLine.com, covering the USA S0289

Can the owner supply materials for the contractor to install on a 203kMike Young Team

Not really, in the case of the owner providing a washer and dryer and the contractor installing the plumbing hook up that isn't an issue but the washer and dryer don't affect the value of the property anyhow so it just wouldn't be mentioned in the scope of work at all.

One home owner we know wants to provide all of the materials to keep his loan amount down. The way to do that is to increase the down payment to cover those items but he is also trying to keep from paying a contractor markup on those items he was willing to go pick up and deliver to the site for the contractor. 

This shouldn't be done. As a consultant, what if the borrower/owner doesn't fulfill their part of the bargain, HUD says we have to have enough money in the project funds to get that done without relying on the owner's participation. We have to be able to get the work done regardless and this scenario doesn't allow that if the owner's circumstances change and they are unable to provide those materials. 

Therefore the answer is a big "NO" regarding "owners to provide" as the owner's can't provide anything in the scope for the contractor to install. The appraiser gives no value to an item provided by the owner... which in the case of a washer and dryer wouldn't have an affect but if the owner was providing all the kitchen cabinets and counter-tops, the appraiser would have to ignore the value for those items and the property might not appraise high enough to get the loan. There are just too many reasons this doesn't work.

 

Update 10-17-2023 Contractor called me today asking "Why can't they bring materials to the job site?" It gives a false sense of the project in addition to all the items listed above. 

 

 

Downtown

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Comments(24)

Michele Peterson
Sellstate Realty First - Roseville, CA
Sellstate Realty First

Great post and perfect timing.

I have a buyer who was just accepted on a HUD offer - Missing Kitchen - cabinets, appliances, sink, pipes...Missing!

He wanted to buy the Kitchen cabinets, etc and have them installed to avoid the increased interest cost and fees of the 203k.

Aug 13, 2013 04:26 AM
Kelle & Kevin Wirt
The Wirt Team - Horizon Realty - New Braunfels, TX
"There is a new Horizon in Hill Country RE!"

Great information, keep up the great posts!

Aug 13, 2013 06:29 AM
David Shamansky
US Mortgages - David Shamansky - Highlands Ranch, CO
Creative, Aggressive & 560 FICO - OK, Colorado Mtg

No doubt thats  BIG NO!!!!

as you are well aware the 203K has its place but its definitely not a walk in sign and walk out with 30k to improve your home. We are talking feds and cash and those only mix if the feds are the ones getting the cash!!!

Aug 13, 2013 06:57 AM
Carla Muss-Jacobs, RETIRED
RETIRED / State License is Inactive - Portland, OR

Ah yes . . . the mark-ups.  Good idea to buy the materials directly, but we're talking about a government program . . . so that's never gonna work.  

Aug 13, 2013 08:42 AM
Jay & Michelle Lieberman
Keller Williams World Class - Agoura Hills, CA
Creating Calm in the Buying and Selling Chaos

Great post.  Did not know about that. 

Aug 13, 2013 09:12 AM
Pam New
New and Company - Arvada, CO
Pam New

Thank you for the information! It will be very helpful in the future!

Aug 13, 2013 10:15 AM
Pamela Seley
West Coast Realty Division - Murrieta, CA
Residential Real Estate Agent serving SW RivCo CA

203K loans just do not work in my market area for home buying. Perhaps if the home owner wanted to refinance and make improvements, but for home buying it is not practical. It's a market where sellers want it sold today. 

Aug 13, 2013 01:14 PM
Mike Young
203kOnLine.com, covering the USA - Stallings, NC
FHA 203k Consultant 916-758-1809

Wow, where do I start. Thank you all for stopping by we appreciate your comments. This is a topic that comes up at least once per week from the borrower(s) and we have to explain it over and over again so the post was to hopefully inform borrowers that this isn't a good idea.

Kathleen, as always, you are very insightful and yes we all need to make a profit if we are going to hire people and keep our neighborhoods viable. Money needs to turn over at least three times in a neighborhood to keep it thriving. 

Thana, Mary Ann, and Carla, thanks for your comments.

Michelle, you may look into a FannieMae HomeStyle Renovation loan as the costs and fees are much lower. If you need more info or a referral to a good lender for this project contact me asap and i'll put you on the right track.

Kelle and David, thanks for stopping by. David the Title I loan program used to be just that, $25,000 for a SFR and we called it a "signature loan" that took about a week to close and was a second loan for smaller renovations. They are still available but a little more difficult to get and I understand they take about 2-3 weeks for funding now.

Pamela, I hear comments like yours all the time, a number of times per week. All I can say is that if you believe it can be done or you believe it can't be done, either way you are correct. Not because it is true but because you tend to forced it the way that makes you correct. Lets see, if you had a million dollar home and our loan limit is $500,000 in your area and the home needs $150,000 in work... your options are to purchase all cash or get a loan for $500,000 and only come up with $650,000 instead of $1,150,000 all cash. mmm. Even if you are in a bidding war and the price is well over the asking price... you can still finance $500,000 in this scenario. 

What if you client paid all cash for the home, then refinanced to get $500,000 back in their pocket including $150,000 for the renovation. At the low interest rates we see right now I can make more than 4 or 5% on that $500,000 and I bet your clients could too. In this case I wouldn't suggest an FHA 203k but instead a FannieMae HomeStyle Renovation loan which has NO PMI and otherwise works just like the FHA 203k. 

Aug 13, 2013 02:49 PM
MichelleCherie Carr Crowe .Just Call. 408-252-8900
Get Results Team...Just Call (408) 252-8900! . DRE #00901962 . Licensed to Sell since 1985 . Altas Realty - San Jose, CA
Family Helping Families Buy & Sell Homes 40+ Years

Yes so many owners want to save money wherever possible but it still has to comply.

Aug 13, 2013 03:45 PM
Sally K. & David L. Hanson
EXP Realty 414-525-0563 - Brookfield, WI
WI Real Estate Agents - Luxury - Divorce

Very good information...203K loans can be life safers....home revivers....need to know how to use them to the buyers

 best advantage

Aug 13, 2013 10:30 PM
Harry F. D'Elia III
WEDO Real Estate and Beyond, LLC - Phoenix, AZ
Investor , Mentor, GRI, Radio, CIPS, REOs, ABR

This would be a definite no in my book.

Aug 13, 2013 11:34 PM
Jack O'Neal
HomeSmart Elite Group - Gilbert, AZ

No. I have had several people want to do the repairs them selves or a family member

Aug 13, 2013 11:40 PM
Sandy Padula & Norm Padula, JD, GRI
HomeSmart Realty West & Florida Realty Investments - , CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

Mike, great blog post. Your explanation make sense and it will be much easier  to explain this to buyers should it ever come up.

Aug 13, 2013 11:40 PM
Elise Harron
Dirt Road Real Estate - Kingman, AZ
Rural Vacant Land and Development Specialist

Mike,

I LOVE posts like this - because I love knowing the answer BEFORE I get asked the question!!!!! Thanks for being "the teacher" this morning!!!!!

 

Aug 14, 2013 12:33 AM
Mike Young
203kOnLine.com, covering the USA - Stallings, NC
FHA 203k Consultant 916-758-1809

Thank you all for stopping by, this topic apparently hits home with allot of people. 

Aug 14, 2013 12:38 AM
Ed Silva, 203-206-0754
Mapleridge Realty, CT 203-206-0754 - Waterbury, CT
Central CT Real Estate Broker Serving all equally

I would put that in the same category as the diner that brings his own food to the restaurant and wants a discount and the meal cooked as well. A 203K mortgage is like having the line of credit as the purchase is made and ties up very little of the home buyer's cash reserves. We just don't have too many banks that offer the loan

Aug 14, 2013 12:52 AM
Jimmy Faulkner
Florida. Homes Realty & Mortgage - Wantagh, NY
The Best Of St. Augustine

Thank you for the update. It is solid information for me & I will know how to react when the situation arises.  Thanks

Aug 14, 2013 01:25 AM
Hella Mitschke Rothwell
(831) 626-4000 - Honolulu, HI
Hawaii & California Real Estate Broker

Who specifies the materials? Can the contractor even guarantee his work if the materials are not purchased through him but the owner? What if something goes wrong?

Aug 14, 2013 03:58 AM
Mike Young
203kOnLine.com, covering the USA - Stallings, NC
FHA 203k Consultant 916-758-1809

This is great feedback, you all seem to get it and understand it fully, why then, is it so hard for others to grasp the concept. Some people actually want to shop the contractor's prices... he buys a toilet for $250 and they find one for $150 they want a discount... put the sales tax, time to go get it and bring it back, and don't forget each item has to have profit and overhead built into it which typically runs about 10% each or 20% total.

Aug 14, 2013 01:48 PM
Anonymous
Ty

Does the 203k contractor have to present receipts for purchased materials?

Jun 21, 2017 03:51 PM
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