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Exporting Democracy. Do we have the Market?

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408

In a nutshell, American idea of the world is that of a sculptor, who takes a stone block and just chisels away the waste to open the beauty which is already there.

In a popular purely American perception of the world, the freedom and democracy are the beauties that are there and that would be cherished by every person and every nation. Why? Because Americans can't believe that there is a single person who would not embrace freedom and democracy. This is a very optimistic view but, unfortunately, overly optimistic. There is no substance hiddenn in the form, nothing to release.

One of the prerequisites for democracy is the maturity to take personal responsibility for your life and for your choices. It is not easy. For countries like Russia this is too much to be asking for and this is true for a lot of other people in other countries. We all know that young criminals, who spent a few years in jail often can't fit the society after they are released. Often because they can't make choices, and can't stand the pressure of freedom and responsibilities that come with that. People. who live in countries like China, North Korea are not ready for that. Big government decides too many things for them, so when faced with real freedom, they are devastated by it, they can't handle the pressure, they are not ready for it.

We are often fooled by the fact that most countries are using the word democracy, and even often implying that their democracy is better. I remember my 40 years in Russia, and there was not a more often used word there. This word is used in a slightly different meaning. Now, if you really think that American meaning of the word democracy or freedom is a better one that Russian, you may be darn wrong. Russians got a little taste of democracy AND THEY DID NOT LIKE IT. At least there is a huge chunk of population that absolutely hate it.

Guys, we are talking about Russia, which is sort of like America, but not as lucky with their autocratic rulers (I am quoting a popular notion, which is dead wrong), but when you are take Afghanistan, Iraq and a lot of other countries, they are way further even from a Russian variant of democracy.

Comments (17)

Ted Baker
Carmody and Associates LLC - Winter Haven, FL
MidFloridaMediation.com

Very perceptive, Jon.  I agree.

The phenomenon  was first described to me in The Ugly American (Lederer and Burdick) more than 40 years ago.

Since the fifties, we Americans have ridden to the rescue on charging white horses with military or economic intervention in countries all over the world - frequently if not generally, with devastating results.  We arrive on the scene with the most charitable and positive of motives - but with a smugness and arrogance that is truly American - born out of ignorance, not intent.  

From our place in the world for less than 250 years, we arrive in cultures that have been in place for millennia and dictate our terms - not for our benefit, but intended to be for theirs - without a clue about the history and culture of the place.  Our Euro-centric system of education blinds us to the ways of the rest of the world and leads us to make misjudgments of Biblical proportions (seemed like an appropriate metaphor - since religion is at the heart of many of the problems). 

We arrive, make matters worse and eventually leave - and we do it over and over again.  And it happens with administrations of both parties.  This is not a political problem, but a cultural one. We are blind in that we think others think and see as we do.  I see it in personal relationships on an individual level and I see it as a collective problem at a national and international level.  The resulting lack of communication and perceived lack of common interest dooms our efforts to failure and confusion. 

And I do not have an answer.

 

Feb 15, 2008 07:59 PM
Eric Webster
Five Star Real Estate - Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids, MI, Five Star Realty

At the risk of being accused of being unpatriotic, it seems to me that we have a need to get our own democracy a bit better before we go off, force feeding it to the rest of the world.

Ted, I'd wonder a bit if our motiviation to go around the world on our white horse is so noble.  It seems many times to be about installing our corporations in new places, and capturing their natural resources for our benefit.

For me, that 's the tip of the iceberg, but in this forum it's enough said.

PEACE!

Feb 15, 2008 08:48 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Ted - I have to admit that your comment is better than my post. I write on a spark, the idea that hits me. You really know your stuff. And in my opinion you are absolutely correct in every statement. And in terms of motivation you are correct. People tend to find simple and convenient reasons for every move, and Eric does the same thinking that there is a sinister idea behind the moves.

I think America is the only country in the world, where the moves by the administration and the politicians are more noble and unselfish, than the interpretations of the general public. This is the most puzzling phenomenon. Why people need to belittle every decision, and apply cheap criteria? I am coming from the country where the moves were always calculated selfish and dangerous, and the propaganda's role was to make it look like unselfish and for the peoples good. Here it is the opposite.

Feb 16, 2008 02:06 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Eric -If you remember some fact in American History, you would see that Americans bought Manhattan, not conquered, bought Louisiana, not conquered, bought Alaska, not conquered, bought Virgin Islands, not conquered. Think about it.

If you look at Russ ia's history, you would notice that there was not a foot of land that Russia ever bought. All conquered.

America is buying what it needs. Beyond protecting itself and the stability, all their other moves are very noble and unselfish. Why would you belittle your government to the point that they wanted their companies in Iraq at this price tag? Believe me, if you do not see it yourself, that America could be buying oil for a century for the price tag of this war. This is not the case. It is obvious. You just need to stop being cynical. And believe that if you are not a crook, other people are not crooks either.

Feb 16, 2008 02:14 AM
Eric Webster
Five Star Real Estate - Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids, MI, Five Star Realty

Jon,
I'm not cynical by nature.  The more I read and the more I hear, I'm just a bit concerned by the direction we seem to be headed in.  I trust until I'm given a reason not to trust.  And what may be obvious to one person could be something entirely different to another.

No mention of crooks of any kind in my response.  I realize that I should probably keep my views to myself in this forum.  I know that I'm not going to change minds, nor is that my purpose. 

PEACE!

Feb 16, 2008 02:33 AM
Ted Baker
Carmody and Associates LLC - Winter Haven, FL
MidFloridaMediation.com

Eric - Don't even think of keeping your  opinions to yourself - This would be very boring if we all agreed.  You are not only welcome - you are needed.  There is no doubt that our strategic interests are sometime influenced by commercial interests.  But I don't think we go to war in Iraq to raise the stock price of Exxon. 

Jon - it is an interesting phenomenon that the American public would prefer to think their leaders are corrupt than think they are incompetent.  So conspiracy theories abound rather than consider the possibility that we are not that complex and devious - we just screwed up. 

Thank you for kind words - You speak in your posts with a passion that I enjoy reading.  I am in your area regularly and will look forward to meeting you in person.

 

Feb 16, 2008 02:45 AM
Broker Nick
South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc. - Coconut Creek, FL
Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service

Jon: I thank you for your explaination of the American culture to be cynical and to think every thing is a conspiracy to steal from other countries. As you have well said, we buy everything, and it costs us dearly.

Eric: Please don't whine if someone comments and disagrees with you. that is what this group is all about. You are taking things to personal.

Feb 16, 2008 06:00 AM
Eric Webster
Five Star Real Estate - Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids, MI, Five Star Realty

Nicholas,

I'm certainly not whining. I stated that for this forum, I will leave my comments at the very few, very mild ones I made.  I have no desire to get into a pi**ing match over what political views people have. I'm very happy with what I believe, and in an appropriate venue share them openly.  I don't believe this is that venue.

Thanks for your opinion.

PEACE!

Feb 16, 2008 06:04 AM
Broker Nick
South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc. - Coconut Creek, FL
Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service

Eric: I am with you, I may not agree with some views of yours, and you may not mine, but you are welcome to share them openly here. We may bark, but we don't bite!

PEACE

Feb 16, 2008 06:10 AM
Eric Webster
Five Star Real Estate - Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids, MI, Five Star Realty
It's one of the things that makes it a great country. I don't remember the last time I bit anyone... lol
Feb 16, 2008 06:13 AM
Hugh Krone
Weichert Referral Associates - Hamburg, NJ
Realtor, Sussex County NJ
As usual Jon a vry thought provoking post. Between you and simon I am prouder every day to be an American and i was always pretty proud of that.
Feb 16, 2008 07:18 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

 Eric - I am simply surprised that from the spectrum of possible reasons, we tend to find the most sinister.

Before I thought that this was an immigrant thing. I remember I worked in New York in Social Services, working with refugees from the USSR. This was 1993. My client smiles saying that the CoOp management company is doing things for themselves, and use the resident's money for that. Puzzled, I am asking him for explanation. He points to the doors to the Management Office of CoOp City (55K-60K residents). Yep, they just replaced the doors and installed automatic doors.

This is the fact. However, the reason is not self indulgence, as suggested by my client, but enactment of 1993 Americans with Disabilities Act. My client tried to pick the explanation that best fit his previous experiences. Well, he had a crooked past, but why many Americans with perfect past tend to look for the most sinister reason of all?

How come some educated and liberated people can only see a conspiracy behind September 11? September 11 is a sad fact, but how come that citizens of this great nation can fall so low?

No offence, but let me know what you think and I know what you are capable of. It still says more about those individuals than the administration.

Of course, there are no saints, either.

Feb 16, 2008 04:14 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Ted - You might be right, it is mostly ignorance, not conspiracy that get us in trouble. Why some Americans choose to see corruption everywhere is not clear.

I noticed that the movies in Russia when I was there differ greatly from movies in the US. In Russia life was... let's say 'interesting', but hte movies were often uplifting, very humane. There were a lot of wonderful movies there. That was called realism, but life was so much better and more humane, People were with souls, truth prevailed. You see people sacrificing their lives, giving their lives for others, for the great cause...They were very uplifting.

In US it is the opposite. Blood all over, cruelty, corrupted police, government, president, senators, lawyers, you name it. There is nothing like that in real life. Cities are not blown up by distraught vigilantes, etc. If movies are reflection on the reality, which reality is this? And if we have millions consuming this concoction of lies and fiction, is it really surprising that there are people who would believe a movie, but not real life?

Ted, I would be glad to meet you. 

Feb 16, 2008 04:34 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Nicholas - I think we all understand that when it comes to business, Americans are shrewd and entrepreneurial. And, yes, they would buy what they need and strike a great deal, rather then go and conquer.

But America is also idealistic and wants to help others. And America goes to other countries with their set of values and priorities, and others may see it as unsolicited, and get apprehensive.

Democracy is a purely domestic product. Can't be exported or loaned.

Feb 16, 2008 04:51 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices
Hugh - Thanks for your support. It means a lot.
Feb 16, 2008 04:54 PM
Ted Baker
Carmody and Associates LLC - Winter Haven, FL
MidFloridaMediation.com
Jon - I need to start buying Russian movies - I need a break
Feb 28, 2008 02:47 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices
I have very few, but they may not have subtitles. The  best remind me movies here like Forrest Gump, for example. In terms of being human, not that pif-puff action without the brain stuff.
Feb 28, 2008 05:39 PM