Lead GenerationBefore blogging many of us non-techie type Realtors purchased template websites.  800 or 900 pages of unoriginal, real estate related drivel that was duplicated onto every site they sold.  They spoke with us about SEO and our eyes rolled up into our heads until we purchased premium SEO packages from them with promises of top search engine placement and lead generation; which of course rarely occurred. 

 

We placed IDX home search (more money) on our websites and had a choice.  Either put up a form for the consumer to fill out to capture the leads, or just open it up, let them search freely and hope that they were so grateful that they would contact us – yeah right!

 

So where was the lead capture?  How did we justify the expense of these websites against the lack of return on investment (ROI) from them? 

 

We were in the throes of a hot sellers market; leads were coming in from signs, ads, marketing and advertising, word of mouth; who cared about the stupid websites?  Who had time to even think about them?  We were too busy selling real estate!  But we continued to pay for the useless sites because we knew we needed an online presence to prove to potential sellers that we had the ability to promote their listings online.  The truth be told, it was mostly crap. The websites delivered a few hundred hits a day, probably mostly from other Realtors, and generated very little business, even for the better sites. Todays blog sites are delivering thousands of hits daily.  More hits = more leads; more leads = more closed sales; it'a a no brainer folks.  

 

Money down the drain!Fast forward to the end of the Sellers Market and the dissipating incoming leads, we began to pay attention to our online presence and how we could improve it to generate leads.  Many of us discovered blogging and learned that blogging was a fantastic enhancement to a weak online presence.  For many it became their only online presence.  We learned all we could about blogging and started to write our little hearts out.  For some a few leads dribbled in for others – still nothing.  Ever wonder why?

 

Do any of you remember taking classes on putting together marketing pieces for your real estate business?  Do you remember hearing the instructors stressing the placement of “calls to action” on every single piece?  Did you forget how important that was?  Do you know that without calls to action that you are pretty much wasting your time?  Do you know what a call to action is?  You do realize that real estate blogging is a form of marketing, don’t you? 

 

Some months ago I added a footer onto all of my posts.  Many blogging purists were horrified and called it spam.  I call it a brilliant business move!  Have you seen those pretty blue buttons at the bottom of my consumer posts?  They are hard to miss.  They lead directly into my lead generation system, which of course has a lead capture and an automated drip system attached to it.  After considerable research into the many different lead generating systems available to us I realized that none of them had the potential to deliver the way 1 Park Place did.  I was right!  I am able to track where my traffic comes from on the back of my Long Beach Real Estate Blog.  I have a pretty good hyper-local blog site so the bulk of my traffic is search engine driven, but who wants all their eggs in one basket?  AR and Localism provide a fair amount of traffic that comes in straight off of those little blue buttons, as do many other sites which I have a presence on.  Do you have a footer on your posts?  Is it leading into a home search with a lead capture attached to it?  Is it working for you?

 

Recently I found myself drowning in leads I could not follow up on, I needed help fast.  I now have 2 buyers’ agents working those leads.  Yes you heard that right, my little Long Beach Real Estate blog is now providing more leads than 3 agents can keep up with.  Still wondering where the leads from that website went, I sure didn’t see them. 

 

Many real estate agents turned to purchasing leads.  Has anybody ever wondered where these companies get the leads?  I have given this a lot of thought.  Consumers weren’t comfortable signing the forms on Realtors IDX websites; are you telling me that they are going to fill out forms on big sites that are going to sell their leads to the highest bidder in any given zip code?  Do you think a buyer or seller is OK with a company assigning their business to any old real estate agent who is willing to pay?  These companies say that they get a lot of traffic and that people sign in.  They say they run PPC (pay per click) ads to promote traffic to their sites so they can corral the traffic and sell you the leads.  Where else are they getting those leads from?   Do you ever wonder?  Don’t you think a buyer or seller would prefer to deal directly with a local Realtor that they know and trust?  Consumers tell me they have been reading me for months when they contact me, the trust factor has been built.  These companies that sell leads just can’t compete with that, why give it up to them?

 

Search EnginesDo you understand how the search engines work?  Say you join a bunch of social networks and everybody is contributing real estate related articles, Q & A’s, information on forums, etc… all with keywords leading back to their local areas in the hopes of pulling in leads.  The power the networks have gives them the ability to pull you up in your local area very quickly.  But the networks are so powerful that your contributions can easily propel the social networks to drown out your own online presence; you gave it to them by contributing your local keywords to their system.  How many social networks do you belong to?  The invitations come into my email at the rate of dozens a week.  I don’t even look at them anymore.  It is overwhelming.  Imagine if all of them were at the top of the search engines in your market.  How would you get there?  You would be pushed down by your own social networking efforts which empowered them to fly right by you and render you irrelevant. 

 

I am not saying that all social networking is bad, if I believed that I would not have a presence on Active Rain.  What I am saying is that you need a plan.  You need to pick your positioning carefully and you need to manage it.  In order to manage it properly you need to learn how it ticks. 

 

Why would I purchase leads in my city via zip codes?  Most of the agents who follow up on those leads are not successful.  Most of them couldn’t capture a client.  My blog is so prominent in my area that lead is probably going to find my site anyway.  Why would I contribute to their service?  That client contacting me directly is much more powerful. It has never been more critical for real estate agents to develop an online lead generation resource.  

 

What are you doing to generate leads in this market? 

 

QuestionSpeaking of contributing to vendors services, why the heck is Brian Brady writing on the Homegain blog?  Why would any real estate professional, or lender contribute to that blog?  Brian you and I have had many conversations about lead providers and vendors.  We have discussed empowering real estate professionals to generate their own leads and connect directly with consumers, isn't that why you originally set up the Unchained Conference to begin with?  That is the basic premise of blogging; isn’t it?  Why are you contributing to a platform where they say that blogging is a waste of time?  Why are you playing kissy-kissy with these people?  Why are you contributing to their cause?   It goes against everything you stand for, you hate technology vendors.  What the heck are you doing bro?  Sumptin ain’t right here, you are being inconsistent with the very principles that you so vehemently promote.  You are not listening to me so I am calling you out on this, I hate you being there. 

 

 

Hard to miss - aren't they? 

 

 

Laurie Manny
Long Beach Realtor

(562) 212-5420

mls wizard


Main Street Realtors
Belmont Heights
244 Redondo Avenue
Long Beach California 90803

value wizard

 

Long Beach Real Estate Blog

Long Beach Real Estate Website

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contact

 

 
Post is included in group: Active Rain Newbies
Post is included in group: Blogging & SEO
Post is included in group: Internet Lead Generation-How Best To Capture Your Audience
Post is included in group: RealtorsĀ®
Post is included in group: WEB 2.0 Marketing on Steroids for Real Estate

231 Comments on Lead Generation

FEB
17
2008
237,898 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Double Parked with popcorn with extra butter in hand..... and of course Chivas and water on the rocks :)
9:14pm • #2
141,578 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I'm going to look into 1 Park Place - thanks for the information.  Congrats on doing it right!
9:18pm • #3
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Wow, that is a mouthful... I have thought about adding some call to action on my blog and I need to do it. I never really thought about how joining social networks could hurt you in your own search position. That is an eye-opener for me. And pass the popcorn for the rest of the post...because at first I thought Brian posting on homegain was fine, and now I am questioning it. 

Actually Laurie, I have been a member of Homegain since the beginning...so long that I am not on the monthly plan of 30.00 per month. If I was I wouldn't do it. But, I have listed and sold several homes a year from it. So how's that for transparency. I do have a few issues with it, which I am in discussion with Lawrence over.

So I look forward to how this discussion unfolds, and I for one appreciate your forthrightness, but would expect nothing less from you.  

9:22pm • #4
584,923 Points 111 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Well, don't know about the other stuff....so I'll come back to see what's going on with that.

In the meantime, I thank you and another who helped me tremendously with my titles and tags and keywords. If not for that I would not be up there with all my blogs, website and outside stuff. I now have two websites, AR and an outside blog and two other RE sites that show up now.

Thank you Laurie....and to think .... I don't pay for hundreds and thousands of dollars for things I know not to work. And I do my own work and surely won't pay for leads.

Thanks again Laurie.

9:24pm • #5
Awesome post!  You are right on the money.
9:26pm • #6
261,087 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Personally, I'm parked with nachos & cheese and a tall glass of water.  I need to be full throttle for this....

 

9:28pm • #7
563,679 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I think I'll pull the Jeep over in the grass next to these other two and see what happens. 

And if I had thousands of hits a day, I think I'd poop my pants...  If I had hundreds I would be beside myself.  A couple of dozen good hits a day would be pretty cool though... 

9:28pm • #8
Laurie,  Very thought provoking.  I add a footer at the bottom of every one of my blogs.  I don't think mine is as effective as your's but you blog has led me to reconsider my footer.  Thanks for the thought.
9:28pm • #9
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie,

I don't hate technology vendors; I use them often.  I hate the influence they have over practitioners.  I hate that practitioners bow down to them like THEY are the message.  I whole-heartedley believe that WE are the message and they are just the toolmakers.

I explained that I think that Home Gain has a useful value proposition for practitioners and write there because I think it  is worthy of exploration

9:37pm • #10
316,775 Points 45 Featured Posts Outside Blog

OK, ready for some nachos now.  Please pass my way, Jason!  Lane, get out of the grass and come on up for popcorn and nachos.

Laurie - hungry?

I have learned MUCH from you, and plan to continue learning even more - and for that, I say a huge THANK YOU!!!

Ann

9:46pm • #11
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ann, Honey pass some of that popcorn, Laurie is in rare form tonight!

Dez, Chivaz? You trying to burn a hole in your gut? Make me a Mohito please!

Judy, Smart woman!

Missy, Without calls to action all we are saying is blah blah blah!  Eye openers are good, no?   As far as Homegain is concerned here is a little food for thought.  If no agents in your area purchased the leads from them then the consumers would contact a local Realtor, wouldn't they?  If you were at the top of the engines there is a very good chance that local Realtor would be you!  Those sales that you made would not have had a fee on them. 

Sally, Glad to hear that you are well positioned and that I was able to help.  And it was FREE!  What about that!

Samuel, Yes I am, thanks for stopping by.

9:58pm • #12
261,087 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I still have lots to learn, (here's the nachos Ann:-)....I agree with Brian in that WE are the message for these vendors, whomever they may be.   What vendors stand for and promote, I'm sure we'll see unfold.  For now, I'm just a AR junkie.  None the less, I'm staying tuned...
10:00pm • #13
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jason,  Full throttle with water?  You disappoint me. 

Lane, I can show you how to get a lot of hits a day.  It's not as difficult as you think!

Jimmy,  In your footer do you have a link driving traffic directly into a home search that captures leads and places consumers onto an automatic drip system? 

10:00pm • #14
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian,

I think that many of the vendors need to be reacquainted with the basic premise of customer service.  That being that the customer is the most important part of the equation in any business.    It is time for the real estate community to rise up and demand service.  When vendors vie to promote themselves through their client base, to promote their own web sites in their consumers local market places, to the detriment of their clients business I have a problem with this.  These blog sites are quickly becoming the basis for our lead generation and therefore our business.  When, not if, all of these vendors pass us by and jam up the first 5 or 6 pages of the top of the search engines, the real estate community will be in service to them and have no choice but to pay for their services.  The real estate industry will have given up its power to them completely!

You are right, they are the toolmakers, they provide the toys for us to be succcessful and we pay them for it.  Homegain does not have a valuable proposition for real estate agents.  When a real estate agent can provide these services for themselves very easily there is no reason to empower these entities who will eventually bury us all alive.  

That you are there lending your superior knowledge and huge internet presence is offensive to me.  You too are a vendor.  You are my lender.  You are acting in a way that is contrary to MY business goals.  What say you? 

10:11pm • #15
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Laurie, good point and that is my issue, as I have had people hit my other sites first, but because I submitted a proposal in one case and one time was a featured agent had to pay a referral fee. Since I have lots of sites, it has  been an issue about 3 times. If someone contacts me through my number 1 site, but then they also sign up on hg and I don't recognize the address I am stuck. 
10:13pm • #16
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

So Missy what you are saying is that the very same client who Homegain referred to you also contacted you directly through one of your own powerful sites?  Yet you had to pay for the referral? 3 X's?

 

I rest my case! 

10:15pm • #17
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

THIS is a good post because YOU are credible, Laurie.  I've seen the back-end of your site because I contribute to it; I know your numbers are real.  So THIS is good advice because you are a full-time real estate practitioner who USES technology to enhance her marketing.

I hope people recognize you for what you are; perhaps the finest local real estate weblogger in terms of marketing efficacy.  I'm very fortunate because I do business with 5 agents who dominate this field.  Readers should be clamoring to this post and every one of your posts because of your success and knowledge.  You got street cred, girl.

What don't I like?  Some tech blogger telling me or you how it's supposed to be.  Some  jerk preaching the cause of disintermediation under the banner of "consumers protection" .  Some code-writer complaining that real estate agents aren't worth their money and mortgage originators are thieves...that his tech solution is the answer to the "revolution" that's about to come.

The only revolution is US taking BACK our businesses from the tech providers that conspire to hold us hostage- that revolution has started and we WILL forward it in Phoenix in May.

 

10:16pm • #18
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

You too are a vendor.  You are my lender.  You are acting in a way that is contrary to MY business goals.  What say you?

I always thought of myself as more of a partner than a vendor.   

10:18pm • #19
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Brian i have always thought of you as a family member.  Writing on Homegain has reduced you to a vendor.
10:20pm • #20
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I think Home Gain may actually have value as a tool, Laurie. especially for new agents.  I won't link to them here (in your post)  but I will provide the URL where I outline their value proposition:

http://blog.homegain.com/use-homegain-or-blog

I essentially show how an independent practitioner can "use" them like they "use" their broker; for basic marketing and to build up a database. 

 

10:24pm • #21
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Yea, I thought I sorta proved your point. I do submit very few proposals now because of it. Although they have said I could call if I had a question,  the way people register on my other sites is totally different than by address on hg.
10:24pm • #22
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

The only revolution is US taking BACK our businesses from the tech providers that conspire to hold us hostage

 

Now that's what I'm talking about.  

 

Thinking about resigning from Homgain yet, or should I continue? 

10:26pm • #23
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Writing on Homegain has reduced you to a vendor

WOW.  I'm sorry you feel that way. 

10:26pm • #24
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian,

Why would any agent need to use a homegain or anybody else to build thier database.  If they built a powerful hyper-local blog (it doesn't take that long) they would acquire the very same database.

 

Missy,

Now that you have your own outside blog do you really still feel the need for their services?   

10:28pm • #25
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I'm stepping back a while and thinking.  Obviously, you've got me all riled up.  What the hell does Home Gain Blog have to do with Unchained?
10:28pm • #26
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy,

Would you explain the HG value proposition?  I don't think I completely understand it.  I know that they have a pay-per-click option and a referral-based option.  I need some education 

10:31pm • #27
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

As I mentioned, I do VERY few proposals anymore. In fact this week it happened again, I got a referral for a listing from my stager. She told me the names and sub, turns out I had submitted a proposal to the street. I am meeting them tomorrow night at 5:30. So I have the referral from Denise dated BEFORE I submitted the proposal, it will be interesting to see how it works out.

Do you think I owe them a referral fee?

*&^% NO. 

10:35pm • #28
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy,

I still don't understand.  If HG gave you the customer, why wouldn't you pay them? Actually, can you start at the beginning?   Maybe I don't know what EXACTLY HG offers.  Remember, I neither buy leads nor am I a REALTOR so please dumb it down for me

10:41pm • #29
342,085 Points 94 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie -- I have worked with a major team in Florida that used the PPC leads and I can't begin to tell you the hours I wasted on the phone!  They are a complete waste of time...   I spent so much time chasing and following up with those that just wanted to look at what was on the market.   Moving back to Buffalo I took your advice.  Go local and be focused.

You are right, it is the trust factor and the leads that do come through are far more powerful.  My baby blog with no call to action button, no mls search has already netted me two phone calls, a request for a CMA (from a form on my blog) and an email thanking me for writing about the community.  It went live 15 days ago!  Much to my joy I am already showing on some of the longtail keywords.   Thank you!

I have a lovely bottle of Vidal Blanc from Niagara Landings Wine Cellars -- anyone want a glass?  Laurie I raise my glass to you!  

10:44pm • #30
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Why would any agent need to use a homegain or anybody else to build thier database.  If they built a powerful hyper-local blog (it doesn't take that long) they would acquire the very same database.

Does it have to be one or the other?  Why not do both? 

10:49pm • #31
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Ok, it goes like this: You get an email saying someone has requested a proposal on selling their home. You pre-set up templates with your way of marketing so it is a quick submit, however,  I always add a personal note and address them personally, but all you see is their address and city. 

You click and send the proposal out. The sellers look at all the Realtors that send them a proposal. Then they can contact you personally through homegain if they want to meet with you.

They in turn are offered either moving boxes or 200.00 rebate if you work with one of "their" agents.

They have no clue we pay out a 30% referral fee to homegain. I have discussed it with many people and most are outraged. Why, because they bond with you and as they say, I have hit many web sites. Many don't even remember the name or how they found you.

Here is an example:


Contact Information:
Profile ID: 123456
Role: Seller
First Name : XXXX
Last Name : XXXXX
Email address: XXXX@XXXXX>com
Current address : 12344 Main Street
Phone : 734-555-1212

Message: Hi, Please contact me about selling my home. I would like to get some ideas from you about what to do to prepare to sell, etc. Thanks

Fill out a request and you will see all the agents that want a shot at selling your home,Brian. That is the best way to see it.  The buyer side is similiar.  

Actually, when I started using it 2002, (can you believe it?) I didn't have as many problems but in around 2005 as my own web presence developed that is when the issues started. 

 

 

10:49pm • #32
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian,

Why not do both?

For the very reason that Missy is having problems.  Leads coming into your database and through Homegain who you are obligated contractually to.  

If you have a successful blog you have no need to purchase leads.  If you do it right you will have more leads than you can handle and you too will need buyers agents to handle the load.   

10:51pm • #33
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
I don't use the PPC thing with them. Also Brian set up a request to sell you home in Ann Arbor,MI and you'll see what happens, I submit a proposal back to you, but make it Ann Arbor, I only do Ann Arbor and Saline. See what you are offered. Laurie, are you OK with this, hijack?
10:53pm • #34
550,203 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Oh one more thing.... I have NO problem with me getting clients through them and have never minded paying a referral fee for business except when they found me on one of my other sites. 
10:55pm • #35
129,211 Points 25 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Hey Laurie, So I do have my listings advertised on many of the free sites. What oppinion do you have of them? You know like Vast, Trulia, Oodle etc.
11:00pm • #37
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Thanks, I think I'm understanding this better, Missy. 

1-Do you get that customer exclusively or do you compete for it? 

2 - Didn't they reduce the referral fee from 27% to 22%?

11:10pm • #38
FEB
18
2008
402,819 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Thanks for the button tip. I'm assuming you think the buttons work better than a link. Did you have a VA do them, or a graphic artist?
12:55am • #39
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Herb,

Deciding what sites to place listings on is an interesting dilemma.  Some brokers send the broker load direct to some of these sites with the leads going back to them, which they then sell to their agents for a referral fee. Everybody wants a piece.  

First I make sure I get my listing post to page one.  Then you have to see which sites rank in your area and make the properties findable to the searching public.  I think we all have to decide which sites make the most sense in our geographic areas.  It's a waste of time to place listings on sites that don't rank in your area IMO.  That time could be better spent promoting the listing. 

Herb, seriously we could sit for weeks entering these listings onto all of the sites that are available to us, and then for another week going in to make price corrections.  We just have to make decisions and manage our time and listings to the best of our ability. 

1:23am • #40
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Brian,  Missy said earlier that several agents compete for the business, when she invited you to sign in to the service.  She also said she pays 30% referral fee. 
1:26am • #41
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Colleen, 

Sorry I missed you, you snuck in there.  There are some people that have good response using PPC.  Most of them spend a great deal of money and have professionals managing it for them.  Personally, I don't know anybody that has had any extraordinary success using them.  I think they may work better in industries other than real estate.  

Your new blog is having big success very early on because you moved into a market with little or no online competition.  I wish you the same continued success with it always.   

1:45am • #42
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Vickie, Yes the buttons work better.  A graphic designer did them for me.  I don't possess that talent, lol.  
1:46am • #43

Hi Laurie,

Wow,  Everything you say makes so much sense.  I have been using a lead generation system for a few years now and I'm tired of paying for my business.  You have encouraged me to rethink what I am doing and work smarter not harder!  Thanks for the info and the popcorn.  I'll keep you posted as to my progress.  I'm new to blogging and here to stay.  I long for the day that I can generate leads and not pay for them!  Thanks for the info.  Too bad Brian didn't look into what HG was all about before he chose to participate on their blog.  That's disheartening to say the least. 

Terri - Longing to get out from paying for leads

2:02am • #44
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy said earlier that several agents compete for the business, when she invited you to sign in to the service.

As a potential customer? 

2:08am • #45
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Brian, In this scenario the customer is the seller, the agents are competing for the listing, homegain refers to several agents apparently the leads are not exclusive is what I am getting out of it.  
4:02am • #46
424,322 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Great Post with lots of information.  I appreciate the tips and success story.  I hope it keeps up for you.
6:13am • #47
419,350 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie - This is one of the best posts I have seen over the last few months. I agree completely with putting a footer at the bottom of your posts. In fact I did it from the moment I made my 1st blog post when I knew nothing about blogging.....it just seemed to be the right thing to do. Why do all the blogging gurus say you shouldn't do it again???? I think it is something about not trying to sell them - give me a break!

In regards to the social networks I hear what your saying. I get asked often why am I participating in so many - the answer is I don't. I do join them for SEO purposes though. Most of them allow you to link back to your website and blog creating a good inbound link. I don't participate in many of the forums like you mention. 

6:59am • #48
238,534 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Laurie - This is a great post, no real surprise to me, most of yours are. The call to action is something that I need to work on, and hopefully will have completed by the end of the day. I can't think of anything more important right now.

The homegain discussion is very interesting to me, as I've never bought any leads before, and after 5 years in the business, I don't plan to start. I really don't understand why anyone with a successful business would pay for leads that should come to you anyway.

Keep up the good work. We all need to look outside the box sometimes.

7:38am • #49
597,356 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Very good post Laurie. In my small market I rank higher than all the big boys on Google. There are advantages to being in a niche market. Very interesting thought process on the social sites taking over our Google juice. I need to ponder this.

Brian, Let me see if I cam simplify HomeGain's process for you. I have actually been a member for about 7 years(I think). I am one of the original members so don't pay any monthly fees just a referral on closed transaction. I used to close 3 to 4 deals a year but haven't worked it for a couple of years now. 

When a REALTOR(R) joins HG we enter the zip codes that we work in. If a buyer or seller needs an agent in these areas then ALL REALTORS(R) who have entered those zip codes get the consumer request. We then have to the option of sending over our proposal. As soon as you hit the send proposal button you are agreeing to pay HG a 30% referral if that consumer chooses to use your services.

The problem comes in because the consumer could very well just be shopping around on the Internet. They may have put in info at HG, HV or any number of lead generators. Then 2 weeks later they get a referral from a friend who suggest they use me as their broker. The consumer checks out my web/blog site and gives me a call. I meet with them and list their property. The next day I get a form from HG saying I owe them a 30% referral because I sent a proposal to 113 Redfin Dr two weeks ago that just happens to be, unknowingly to me, the house of the seller who contacted me direct after their friend gave them my name. They never even looked at my HG proposal!!!! Doesn't matter. According to the HG terms I owe them 30%.  

Laurie's concern is that your blogging efforts on HG will give HG better positioning on the searches which will therefore "capture" more consumer inquiries that they are now claiming as their "leads" and are making a profit off of selling our consumers back to us. Laurie is right.

7:51am • #50
822,677 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Don't agents understand that when they subscribe to HomeGain and other lead generation web sites that they are letting the lead generation companies climb higher on Google.  All it does is let the lead generation companies get between YOU and the consumer. 

Agree.  Wonderful post. 

You've got the MOJO.

8:01am • #51
Thanks for the information!
8:03am • #52
Localism Sponsor

Laurie, another thought provoking post. No surprise there. I too get numerous invites to social networking groups. I have joined a few but have not created a presence. Currently I am only active on AR. I need to figure out a plan on which ones to join and contribute to. There is only so much time in a day.

I have seen your call to action buttons and wondered if they were effective. I now realize just how lame my call to action buttons are. Another thing I need to address.

8:15am • #53
When are you guys and Gals going to get it: it is about becoming the source of real, human edited, unique information originating from your website in an RSS feed, and you will not get it right without professional help.
8:18am • #54
275,850 Points 29 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Laurie, for what it's worth, I'm with you on the buying lead sites.  I did a lot of testing for my firm in Pasadena about 4 years ago and found them all to be weak.  I haven't yet used 1 Park Place because of the cost as I am still getting settled and my blog is like a teenager now.  Hits are increasing, and some good leads but not enough yet.  I can't wait to break through to the next level.  You truly are a leader in this industry and we are all grateful for all that you share with us!
8:23am • #55

This is food for thought. Will bookmark this and reread as you have put some thought into this.

Bonner

8:24am • #56
259,143 Points 38 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I hate lead generation companies and could never understand why so many agents fall right into bed with them.

I've parked myself...anymore pop corn?

8:29am • #57

When you buy from a lead generator, you are giving a middleman the money to buy your market and sell it back to you.

Does that make you happy?!

8:34am • #58
237,898 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

No more popcorn Monika....   we are on to bacon and eggs

Juice anyone??

8:40am • #59
373,822 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog
WoW...... I have to come back to this and make sure I can duplicate this system. Great Post ! You have got my attention........ Can I brrow yours too ?
9:06am • #60
I  think your on to something with those buttons! I recently Put my contact info on the bottom and was considering a link to my e-mail ----- But these are direct and to the point and probably make perfect sense!
9:19am • #61
317,764 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Great post, I am currently planning to ad something to the bottom of my posts. I think it's a great idea.
9:27am • #62
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

When are you guys and Gals going to get it: it is about becoming the source of real, human edited, unique information originating from your website in an RSS feed, and you will not get it right without professional help

That's quite an arrogant statement considering the present company, Sir.

9:47am • #63
4 Featured Posts
Laurie...love the post, love the site, and I adore the attitude! I applaud you for stepping outside the box and working the Long Tail!
10:12am • #64
241,907 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Laurie- Good points in your blog, now I want some pretty buttons to add to my blogs. Have a great year in 2008.
10:13am • #65
204,041 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Laurie,  Exceptional post.  C'mon, don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel !  Keep up the great work.
10:31am • #66
498,515 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Excellent call to action.  Now I have another thing to add on to my list of things to do!  Congrats on your continued success and thank you for opening up an interesting discussion Laurie!
10:37am • #67
363,101 Points 110 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Laurie,

Good post.  I think we all seem to forget that blogging is just another aspect of our marketing mix.  Blogging on Homegain, posting on Trulia, AR or any number of a zillion options is just another way of getting exposure on the internet.

Yes, we may be "helping" them, but at the same time we are helping ourselves.  I personally love having the options of using a different voice to speak to a variety of people in different areas.  Not everyone hangs out here on AR 24/7.  I think our consumers are finding us on many different venues.  The more venues you are present on the more likely they are to find you.

Congratulations on your outstanding success with your local blog.  You have proven to The Blogging Powers That Be that there are no set RULES in blogging.  It has always cracked me up how some people who have NEVER SOLD  a house should determine the rules for our business. 

I think it is time for us as REALTORS to take a stand.  Technology is not driving real estate, REAL ESTATE is driving real estate. Technology is a tool, to be used how we want.

kk 

10:38am • #68
129,211 Points 25 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Up now in the morning to check on the activity. Great dialogue going on here. BB Thanks for braking it down in a meaningful manner. I have railed against lead generation company's for years. They truly are eroding our value. If we continue to support them eventually we will be there slaves.

The attraction of PPC or Lead aggregates appeals to our lazy sides. I know the buttons work because I have used them a couple of times recently and have tracked the results.

10:43am • #69
261,087 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog
What a wonderful discussion, I still have a boat load to learn in regards to marketing & necessitating a call to action which Laurie articulates so well.  Sometimes one has to sit back and ponder & soak up everything you can.  I'll continue to try to implement the vast knowledge that can be gained here.  Thanks Laurie & Brian.
11:21am • #70
144,401 Points 89 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Laurie, I have to say you have written another classic post...all 3 ideas are worthy of their own discussion

  1. The Call to Action Buttons...marketing genius at work! Congratualtions on your success!
  2. Generate Your Own Leads, you can, you can! This message is inspiring and at the heart of blogging. I personally find it shocking that they take so much of your commission FOR AN INTERNET LEAD? Wow. Thank you to BB and all who explained this. I had no idea. That gives you an awful lot of marketing money to seek out your own internet success (by not paying Homegain)
  3. You actually called out Brian Brady...on a featured post no less. I simply could not wait to see what Brian had to say about this, and find this controversy fascinating.

 

11:24am • #71
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I think it is time for us as REALTORS to take a stand.  Technology is not driving real estate, REAL ESTATE is driving real estate. Technology is a tool, to be used how we want.

Amen, Kristal.  As you know, I've been preaching that mantra for 2 years.  The tech bloggers hate it but I don't care.  As I stated at Inman Connect, WE are the "industry.  I was reading a tech blogger's blog, yesterday, when I noticed a comment about a writer from Inman and a tech company being "industry leaders".  I asked "which industry is that?"; it surely isn't mine.

In my industry, Laurie Manny is a leader, Kristal Kraft is a leader, Bryant Tutas is a leader, Greg Swann is a leader,  Dan Green is a leader.  These are the people I watch. The in the trenches practitioners, slogging it out on the internet, fighting for the right to help people get into homes.

I appreciate your open mind about my participation on the HG blog but I must admit that I was not prepared for the backlash that participation incited.  I think I'm going to have to better evaluate their allure to  (and equally as visceral disdain from) agents. Laurie makes a great point when she says that I organized a conference to help agents win  the Web 2.0 game yet support a purely Web 1.0 offering.

Herb,

I'm experimenting with PPC and I'm pleased with the results.  Admittedly, I'm feeding a starving market but I've been amazed at the conversion rate.

11:26am • #72

I'm on my second latte and am intrigued by the conversation.  Currently my web presence is pathetic, I have only been licensed for just under two years, and now that I know how to sell a house I am deciding how to beef up my online presence.

Being a control freak, I want something that I have the power to create and modify.  I have been reading posts by the heavy hitters for a while and see blogging as a way to not only reach the consumers, but also a way to steer the ship.

I think that paying for leads vs. generating your own is very much like the proverbial "Give a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish"  Unfortunately, for those of us that prefer to hone our fishing skills, another element has been introduced.  A big commercial fishing operation has plopped itself into the river upstream and has placed some huge nets in the water, capturing a %#^*& load of fish before those of us downstream even have a shot at them. . . then, they brazenly charge a fee for fish.

11:28am • #73
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

You actually called out Brian Brady...on a featured post no less.

It's about time.  I've never shirked from controversy and I'm not gonna start now.  I think Laurie's being somewhat simplistic in her conclusion that I'm in direct conflict with her business goals (I have written some 40 articles for her site) but I'm listening...I'm listening.

I experiment, Janet.  I tinker.  I push the envelope.  I'm often wrong and I try to atone when I am.  I think, however, that my results come from the willingness to experiment.  I care about opinions, too.  If I didn't, I wouldn't be parked here, on my day off, trying to understand this whole mess.

11:31am • #74
668,974 Points 72 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Laurie, this one really got my attention.  I never got sucked into the pre-packaged web site thing, but blogging has been a great no fuss, no muss way for someone pretty technology impaired to attract buyers and to cement relationships that began as personal referrals or meetings from various other marketing efforts.  
11:55am • #75
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bill, Many of those blogging gurus don't sell real estate.  They sell leads, blogging platforms, etc...  What do they know about selling real estate?  I joined many of the social networking sites also, for the SEO.  I don't even remember which ones I have joined anymore.  Its not possible to keep up with them all.  I set up a profile and never went back to many of them, like you said for the links.  Then I notice them on page 2 or at the bottom of page one in my local area.  I gave them that juice by adding my profile.  There are far better ways to acquire backlinks.  I won't be making that mistake again.  

 

Larry, Nothing, I repeat NOTHING is more important that a call to action!  I don't understand why anybody would pay for leads either.  Israel stated it best "When you buy from a lead generator, you are giving a middleman the money to buy your market and sell it back to you." I say AMEN!

 

Bryant,  Thank you for stopping by, great explanation of the HG process.  The social sites are about to become a major problem because there are just so many of them.  It reminds me of the days when the website providers told us all we needed to be in ALL the directories for the backlinks.  That was the biggest sham of them all.  They SOLD us PR3 and PR4 backlinks, placed us on PR0 or NO PAGE RANK pages and the directories jammed up the first 5 or 6 pages of Google making it near impossible for local REALTORS sites to rise up in the engines. The REALTORS gained NOTHING from the directories, except offers to buy the leads they acquired by stealing from us.  I am going to repeat myself here again, if nobody buys the leads then the leads come directly to the local REALTORS!  Why create a middleman? 

 

 

 

12:04pm • #76
3 Featured Posts
Great post and one of the most well written I have read here on AR.  I could teach a class off your blog.  Thanks for taking the time to write and share!
12:13pm • #77
185,670 Points 28 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I keep asking for 1 Park Place but until they get 25 agents to sign up in my market, it's a no go.  Which totally bums me out since that means I have to wait for competition before i can have another tool to crush my competition...chicken and egg, alas

I still need to set up some time with you to pick your ever-growing brain about how to get smarter at this game.  i'll catch you off-line soon?

12:13pm • #78
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn, You've got it woman! Get between us and steal the opportunity for direct contact!  You've got the MOJO too!

Brian T, You're quite welcome.

Jill, Choose carefully.  The call to action buttons are just good marketing practice.

Israel, But we are getting it right without professional help.  We are becoming the professionals. Life is a learning process, and we are not as dumb as some may think.  And we have these wonderful social networks to spread the word on and reach others in our ranks.  So go - spread the word.  Ding Dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch, the wicked witch is dead...!

Diane, Buying leads sucks!  Giving up your personal power sucks!  You will do just fine.

Bonner, Thanks for stopping by.  Good luck with your thought process.

Monika, Me too!  No more popcorn, it's time for brunch girl!

Israel, That makes me very happy.  Did you all read what Israel wrote?  In case you missed it:

"When you buy from a lead generator, you are giving a middleman the money to buy your market and sell it back to you."

Desiree, Brunch?

Roland, If you are referring to borrowing my buttons, no you may not.   Unless you are in my market and plan on leaving my links in them, lol...

NO NAME, Not a good idea to put your email addy on the net, too much spam.  Send traffic to a contact me form, it should be delivered right to your email addy anyway.

JL Boney, It is a great idea, good luck. 

Brian, I think Israels 2nd comment cleared it up a bit, although I am a bit confused by the 1st one.  

12:16pm • #79
4 Featured Posts
Spot on. I've actually been in the process of re-vamping some old sites to convert to new platforms for the past month or two.
12:17pm • #80
135,585 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Laurie,  Great post.  I'll bookmark it.

To Jimmy McCall, if you're looking for any comments, I would say your footer tag is 'too salesy'.  You also don't offer a benefit to a prospect.  Like Laurie's, what not make 4 simple buttons, each offering something of value to any prospects...like a free report, etc. Just think about what you can offer to people who need more info about mortgages.

I'm going to add footer buttons too.

12:18pm • #81
144,401 Points 89 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Laurie, I hope you do not mind if I reply to Brian here..........Brian: As one of your biggest fans, please know that I think you are handling this exactly how I might have expected: Willing to learn, willing to understand, and of course, willing to change (and as always, the perfect gentleman)  I would be very disappointed if you chose NOT to experiment, and NOT to put yourself out there.

After all, choosing the path of least resistance is always the easiest choice. But obviously the greatest rewards are reserved for those who blaze the trail. Thanks for being a trail blazer.

PS A certain on line lender who I will not name is still overwhelmed with leads, but has pared down to a skeleton crew...they have farmed these on line applicants out to our company, and I have been asked to handle some of these.  Why would I want to?

 I REALLY want to get inside the head of someone who applies for a loan on line, and see what makes them tick. Will write a post about this shortly, and apply what I learn to attracting these clients myself, on my own web site....part of learning to fish like the big guys...like Lori says.

12:20pm • #82
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brett, Thanks, I have never been one to be satisfied with the surface.  I dig and I dig until I understand the process.  I annoy people along the way, but I've stopped caring about that, the answers must be had.  Until we all educate ourselves as to what we are doing here online, we are just prey once again.  

Pam, Yeah, I wanted pretty buttons too...and very NOTICEABLE ones as well. 

Bill, LOL!  Thanks.

Renee, Thanks, go get busy girl.

Kristal,  I agree, its great to have the many options available to us to use our voice online.  What I am saying is that voice needs to be managed and we need to make conscious decisions as to where we decide to place that voice and what systems we decide to support by doing so.  Every action has a reaction and this is no exception.  I can't imagine being restricted to only AR, I enjoy my presence online in several places and plan to continue that.  However, I do plan to control that presence.  Having seen what the power of simply filling out a profile can do, I am more wary now of just joining without research.  

Thanks, I agree about the RULES.  I have never been big on RULES.  It has always been my opinion that RULES were made for people who need them, by people who want control them.  I have never really needed them and have always enjoyed breaking them.   It is unfortunate that the people who make the rules are usually the least competent to do so.   

Yes Kristal it is time for REALTORS to take a stand.  Technology is our servant, we are not in service to it.  

Thank you 

 

12:30pm • #83
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Thanks, Janet.  I always hear this from you and appreciate it
12:37pm • #84
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Herb, Glad you are on board.

Jason, If you are not marketing yourself and your product then you are just sitting there and praying for business.

Janet,  Amen!

Brian, It's time for a revolution.  Take back what is ours.  Put the vendors in their place, they are there to provide services to us.  For this we pay them.  They are NOT the leaders of our industry, they serve our industry.  As far as your presence on HG is concerned, you know how I feel about it.  You are BRIAN BRADY!  You are a powerful voice.  You are giving them credence.  They are not worthy!  

Lori, Jump upstream of the commercial fishers babe!  Cut a hole in the fence they erected if necessary! Stick around, there is loads to learn here.  Like Lenn said, we have the MOJO and we are not afraid to use it.  

Brian, LOL!  You actually called out Brian Brady...on a featured post no less. Yeah, I guess I did! 

Too funny!  He wasn't listening to me on the phone, so I figured that I would let the rest of you tell him why he is too good to be there lending his powerful presence to an undeserving entity.  

Brian I love you like a brother, and I am not confused or being simplistic about you being in conflict with my business goals, we are usually totally on the same page.  You are the absolute best!  Too good for HG and that is my point.  Experimentation is fine; now that you have experimented are you done with this one yet?  See you later...

Just an FYI to everybody, Brian and I get along great, I have the utmost respect for him and consider him to be a member of my blood family.  Just having a little difference of opinion with my bro and am not thinking about taking no for an answer, so I am nagging the crap out of him.

Patricia, Sounds like you are starting to get it.  

Dick, I plan on it.

Leigh, Call me anytime.  Call Ann Cummings she is having the same problem and may have a solution to share with you.

Paul, Good luck to you.

12:48pm • #85
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Dan, Footer buttons are very valuable.

Janet, No problem, this post is an open discussion, I hope everybody feels free to have open discussions with anybody they want to.

 

1:06pm • #86
121,298 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Those are definitely hard to miss. I like them. I think they are a great idea. I need to create something like this.
1:27pm • #87
Outside Blog
Great discussion.....and as we build our technology skills.....why do we need a middleman that adds no value other than creating keywords & a website to charge us a referral fee....they really are our competitors....they certainly are not improving the quality of service or helping the consumers perception of Realtors.....
2:30pm • #89
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Christy, The buttons are an invaluable tool.

Gregory, Cracking me up!  SEO used to make my eyes roll up too.  I think the first impression is that we have to learn html and a lot of code which is not the case.  SEO is really quite easy once you get the hang of it.  Simply put it is SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMIZATION.   It is simply the optimization of your site.  There are several basic steps to setting up a website, none of which are difficult or complicated, then there is the business of writing keyword rich text.  The rest can be done slowly over time and before you know it you have a successful site.  Whallah!

2:32pm • #90
385,180 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
This is why I spend time on Active Rain to learn something thanks for the info.
3:03pm • #91
10 Featured Posts

I did PPC for several years then stopped last year when I created my blog. The blog works much better and it's free. I don't do anything with the lead generators for the reasons you cite.

Regarding the social networks, last year at some point Teresa B commented that she believed our Localism posts would compete with our own blogs as well. That was an eye opener for me because she was right ... which is what your excellent post is all about. I stopped putting local posts on AR (except for listings) last summer. I do a few other social networks, like LinkedIn and Naymz, but not a lot.

I totally agree with you that we should NOT be giving them credibility - AND Google Juice - when it only means we'll be competing with them for Page 1 presence.

3:11pm • #92
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Terry, You are quite welcome.

Elaine, I agree with Teresa and you and have done the same.  The result?  I empowered the local content on my own blog.  Listings and open houses are about it for me now as well. 

For me AR remains a place where I can communicate with industry friends and peers, talk about social networking, blogging and other industry related issues that I would never discuss on my hyper-local real estate blog.  It fills the void for me personally and helps me stay connected to the industry.   

3:23pm • #93

Laurie,

WOW!!! That was Fun Reading the Comments...

Love The Buttons, Can you use them for a e-mail Signature? How do you insert them into your blog?

3:38pm • #94
35 Featured Posts

Bad bad girl... I love it. How on earth did you make lead gen so controversial?  No matter what anyone says- your blog works and it not only works in terms of Google placement but in terms of lead gen.  See you tonight

-M 

4:25pm • #96
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jane, Even the serious stuff can be fun!  I do use them for an email signature.  Lets see if it will cut and paste to here: (I pulled out one of my phone #'s and my email addy for this)

 

Warmest Regards,
Laurie Manny
Prudential California Realty
Long Beach California
(562) 212-5420
 
mls wizard
 
value wizard
 
 

 
 

 

4:31pm • #97
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Debbie, Yeah, sumptin else, huh?

Mary,  :)  See you later, will be battling holiday and rush hour traffic   

4:32pm • #98
268,851 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog
You are correct on calling out Brian for his homegain articles. He is such a good writer. Good poiters on the buttons.
5:12pm • #99
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Yeah Eric, Brian needs to hear it from more than just me.  Thanks.
5:42pm • #100

Laurie,

Am I understanding this correctly - homegain picks up leads off of my blog in Active Rain.  The only reason I question this is JUST joined HomeGain on Sunday.  I received 9 leads but one of them was someone whom also emailed about the same time from my Active Rain site.  How does this work?

Is there entries that HomeGain captures from other sites?

5:53pm • #101
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Christine,

Read all of Missy's and Broker Bryants comments above.  They will explain how it works.  

Basically, the way i understand it is if you contact that client through homegain you will have to pay them the referral fee of 30% even though one of them contacted you directly.  

See if you had a hyper-local real estate blog with 1 Park Place on it you would be generating that many leads a day without having to pay for them.  I'll just bet that many of the leads you would generate would be the very same leads you are about to pay for.

Interesting dilemma, huh?

6:09pm • #102
237,898 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Well that's the last time I click that little box on one of your posts.   geez did I have alot of mail today, I guess I should have know.

Good job in getting the word out there.   Cut out that middle man - I can't wait for my blog to be up and running and start phasing out advanced access

oh... nice buttons by the way

6:27pm • #103
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Yeah that little box can be a pain sometimes.  Good luck with the new blog, can't wait to see it.  Thanks a bunch.
6:44pm • #104
113,238 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

This was a very interesting conversation but, as a Virtual Assistant, I guess I have a different perspective on the entire subject of lead generation services. Lead generation services such as HomeGain provide a service.  We may not like the referral fee (it's too high) but the fact that it works attests to the reason so many agents use it.

I think it is unfair to say, across the board, that agents should never use lead generation services.  Plenty of agents are perfectly capable of following the directions you could give (and that you and others are already giving through your blogs) to start generating leads on their own. We always tell our clients that they need to develop a niche and focus on it to help bring in leads that are of higher quality. However, there are also agents on the other end of the scale who either do not want to or do not have the time to develop a presence using blogging and other such methods but still need to have leads coming in. Many of these agents use lead generation services. Does this make them wrong? Are they growing their businesses incorrectly because they aren't doing it the way you are?  I really don't think so.

You say that lead generation services are taking over the real estate industry and that, by patronizing those vendors, agents are actually sabotaging themselves. I disagree with this as well. Consumers utilize services such as HomeGain, HouseValues and other similar sites to find a realtor because of many different reasons. One of them is the perception. They perceive these vendors as portals to finding just the right realtor quickly and easily. Consumers don't know what you, as an agent, have to do in order to be a part of these websites but they know you have to do something. To the consumer, this sets you apart from all the other agents on the Internet. After all, not all Internet leads do online research to find an agent. Some rely on the services such as those that HomeGain provides. After they've narrowed down their choices through one of these services, they will then look for those agents online.

The bottom line is that different strategies work for different agents, be it lead generation services, PPC, SEO, or niche marketing.  Not everyone is going to run their business the way that you do, in spite of your obvious success with your methods. But, because it works for you doesn't mean nothing else works or that agents should give up anything that you aren't doing.  That's just not practical.  It would be awesome if all of our clients followed your advice and lead - it would make things so much simpler for us. But life is a mix - and so is business!

~Renae

8:09pm • #105
237,898 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I think that since I still have that little box checked I have to chime back in.    Laurie and I had a conversation not too long ago on this subject and I think alot of weight has to be put in what shes saying on this issue.

Having done the House Values years ago and being familiar with Homegain I think the idea of the "big boys" thriving off us as agents and then feeding us back our leads is probably more on base than we would care to believe

I think with the right exposure and there are so many free sites and plat forms that we as agents can use to better promote ourselves and generate our own leads.

Don't always be so quick to look for the easy buck....   working for it without having to subscribe and pay referrals has its just rewards.

There is nothing the lead generators are doing that we as agents can't do ourselves....   come on people get with the bigger picture

8:30pm • #106
397,750 Points 17 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Whoa Laurie! Why don't you tell us what you really think? Now about 1parkplace. I've looked at it a couple of times, but never poked around too deeply. What exactly is it?
8:34pm • #107
101,037 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Thanks for the link and the fabulous blog. It was so right on. 
8:34pm • #108

Of course they are feeding on you, see this string on the same subject at RISMedia.com:

 http://rismedia.com/forums/topic/internet-leads?replies=22

8:48pm • #109

   Very interesting, it seems you were asking lots of questions that i do not know the answers to. Now, where can I go to find these answers?

  I would love to be able to utilize and track lead capture in more than my real estate endeavor , could i caox you to email me where anf how i can look up and reasearch answers to most of those questions...

  Thanks.

8:55pm • #110
563,679 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I seldom read through 100 comments on a post.  I just don't have the time...  But, this was WAY more informative than the vast majority.  First... I parked in the grass, but if any of the popcorn is left, I'll be right down.  

Laurie, I'd love to raise the ranking of my blog and my site.  They starting to get my long tails... and I want them to get more.  My blog does about 30 hits a day, with about 55% of them through subscription (feedblaster... may be more that are straight RSS).  My website is dynamic, and the content is refreshing monthly (like a magazine).  It gets another 25 hits a day, and I don't know how many people are subscribed to the RSS feed. 

I did the HV/JL thing when I first started.  For the money I spent, I could have done actual marketing.  I won't feed them my content, and I would pull the plug on everything I had here if HV took a bigger role.  (I have all of it backed up, so I wouldn't lose any of my groundbreaking thoughts...).  

I had been signing up on a number of social sites, but slowed down because I couldn't do anything meaningful with them.  There are just too many.  I decided I needed to concentrate on a few key areas and do them well. 

9:36pm • #111
1 Featured Post

This is the best thread I have ever read on AR.  Wow!  So much to appreciate, and so much to build on!  This is the heart and soul of why I love blogging...

Ironically, my FREE (as in zero dollars) Google Blogger site is outranking my website I have spent tons of time (and a bit of hard-earned money) optimizing (all as a novice, mind you), and getting leads!!  Now, I've learned that most people don't comment, but they still click through.

I'm going to muster up some buttons, get busy beefing up the blog content, and get on the conversion train!

Thank you, Laurie, for the provocative, clarifying post.  It is one more solid rock in my foundation.  Also, I must say that Brian B.'s efforts and massive web presence is a true inspiration.  Being amongst the leaders in this charge, there will always be mistakes, mis-steps, and fodder for hindsight...But somebody's gotta do it!!  ;)

11:10pm • #112
336,983 Points Outside Blog
Seems no matter how much time one spends there is never enough time to keep up with all the new technology that one must keep up with. Thanks for the post.
11:15pm • #113
FEB
19
2008
111,840 Points 13 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Laurie -  I think I need to take a week to study your blog, your tips and your brain, oh heck can I just fly in and steal you for a week. I know it would only touch the tip of the knowledge you have learned by trial and error..but you are doing it so right!! SO REAL, SO RIGHT!!!  I need your help desperately... I do buttons, I do footers, but no doubt it's all wrong. I do the art...I will do the buttons and graphic design if someone will help me with my keywords, long-tail key words etc....it's all so overwhelming... where can I find out about this 'Call to Action' theory..remember self taught here ...so I have much to learn. arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.... Can I just be your understudy??   OK parking to finish the remainder of the comments...half way through. GREAT Informative comments, and post!
12:03am • #114
133,710 Points 29 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I understand the problem with "referral fees".  I guess I have always broken it down in my mind like this, "What is a true referal?"  A true referral is a client you wouldn't have otherwise had.  If you feel that you are engaged in a service that would take clients away from you that you would have had otherwise, don't engage in them. Period.

Some website companies and advertising companies are lumped into this whole "lead generation" category.  Truly any advertising and marketing you do should generate leads for you.  IT is the reselling of the client that is the problem.

But you know, there are some agents who are not on the internet, at all, and competing in huge markets across the country that truly believe that business from across the country will just magically come to them.  Now I know the active A/R bloggers wouldn't believe this, but yes, some in the industry still subscribe to this.  They are the ones who call internet real estate buyers and sellers looky-loos and they are the ones who call a personal website a page off their company's website.

Anyway, aligning yourself with good company and partnering with those companies that engages in honesty and integrity leave you whole at the end of the day.  If it doesn't fit, just walk away.  Been there once or twice myself.

P.S. Brian, you are right in that the customers are the real estate agents and mortgage brokers, not the technology vendors.  I am with you there.  Just like I am the customer of my cell phone company or cable company, not the other way around.

Thanks for your great discussion and post Laurie.  You have a great no nonsense tell it like it is style.  I am not very (or at all) familiar with Long Beach, but have you every visited New York.  My family is from Long Island and your style is very reminiscent to me of that.

12:40am • #115
210,574 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie- This is classic. Another great post from the one of the best brilliant and knowledgeable real estate professionals this business has to offer-YOU ARE VERY GOOD. I really enjoyed reading this blog just like I do all of your blogs. Thanks for writing great information. I have always learned from reading your blogs. I am still working on getting a couple of things such as SEO,my profile here on Active Rain and my website. But I am working on it. But can you please tell me what 1 park place means? Great post

3:10am • #116
419,350 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie - I have continued to think about what you have said in regards to Social sites taking away business via being on the 1st ansd 2nd page of Google - Which of these sites are you refering to? AR as you know is a social site with a lot of firepower. I have seen nothing else that comes close. Of course there are numerous benefits to being here - SEO being one of them. The footer you have is a perfect example of this as it gives your website more juice via links.

I am interested to know which sites you feel are taking that juice away because of their ability to place on the serps. I have not seen any that strip our ability to rank well by taking the juice from us unless of course you are talking about something like Yahoo? Although they do rank well, I wouldn't consider homegain and trulia to be true social networks in the contest of this discussion.  What am I missing. Please give me a few examples.

I have looked at your inbound links and don't see any social networks that would take away rank?

7:49am • #117
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I have helped Laurie by writing on her weblog.  Four of her top ten (most viewed) articles were written by me.  I think it's safe to say that I have had a more than marginal impact on her success.  Yet, if I write on Home Gain, Laurie believes that I'm "just a vendor". Can anyone see the potential damage Laurie might have done, to her business,  by demanding that I abandon other online marketing interests?

This is why you must be independent in your marketing efforts.  You must be able to say "no" to Laurie (or Bill, or Susie, or  Home Gain or HouseValues)  when they attempt to exert any undue influence over your business.  You must pursue 3-4 different channels of marketing without being anyone's slave, be it a lender, agent, or tech provider.

Janet seemed almost shocked that Laurie "called me out" .  As a lender, I'm sure she felt a pit in her stomach (for me).  Janet may have been conditioned to think that.  Most originators are conditioned to serve agents at all costs.  Janet's reaction is exactly how I would have reacted...three years ago.

What would happen if Laurie decided to "cut me loose" because I refused to give up HG? 

9:37am • #118

Great post -- especially the call to action. I'm surprised to see so much advertising without a call to action. What a waste. Keep on blogging.

Happy Sailing ... _/) Paul -- www.eNewsletterSolutions.com 

Paul
9:39am • #119
238,534 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

WOW - This is the most fun post ever. I just read the comment by Brian about what if Laurie decided to cut him loose?

I don't know what she would do, but if it's the best thing to do for my clients, then it's time for a change. I've done if before when I moved from C21 to Keller Williams, and it was all about customer service. If she feels that her customer service is compromised, then it's time to find a better solution.

11:02am • #120
144,401 Points 89 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Brian: You are correct in your opinion of my reaction. What makes this thread interesting is the number of themes being discussed.

Can I tell you again how much I admire you for your integrity and convictions? You are right to say that the actions and reactions of mortgage brokers are often dictated by the concept (perception?) that we are beneath Realtors on the financial food chain.

If you are cut loose, who loses more? Isn't that the unasked question?

What has changed for you in the last 3 years that has changed your mind, and allowed you to boldly go where no mortgage broker has gone before?

 

 

11:15am • #121
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

What has changed for you in the last 3 years that has changed your mind, and allowed you to boldly go where no mortgage broker has gone before?

I'm unchained, Janet.  I control my own destiny.  I am equally as relevant to the consumer. 

11:53am • #122
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

If she feels that her customer service is compromised, then it's time to find a better solution

This isn't about customer service, it's about my marketing. 

11:54am • #123
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Renae,  The point I was making was that by adding our local content to these sites, we are building these sites.  As the sites build they will overpower all of ours on the engines with the sheer weight of our content propelling them.  

The other opoint I was making was that if no agents used these services that the consumer would contact local agents directly, in which case their local marketing would help to reel in the business.  The point is that we are supporting a middleman and giving up a chunk of our business unnecessarily.  I do understand that not everybody is online and that some are dependent on other methods, it just seems to me that there has to be a better way.  I have no problem with referral fees, they are a part of our business.  But these businesses are reeling in leads that are also contacting the local agents directly, they are reaching into the farm and selling back, hopefully before the consumer contacts a local agent.  It just seems sleazy to me.  

12:17pm • #124
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Desiree, The bigger picture is once these sites overpower ours, the bulk of the leads will go to them.  Agents could be put into the position of having to purchase local business back from the providers.  It is just one too many hands in the local pot.  
12:20pm • #125
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Lisa, 1 Park Place is an IDX solution that actually works, developed by professionals who studied the buying habits of online consumers and built a system around them that works.  
12:21pm • #126
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Martha, You are welcome. 

Israel, It is customary to ask if it is OK to drop a link on another members post.

Eric, Yes, I asked a lot of questions.  Questions meant to provoke thought and conversation. Many of them have been addressed in the comments here.  Go ahead and open a conversation here on any of the questions not yet addressed, this is the place to do that.

Lane, You and I need to have a phone conversation-in front of our computers.  I'll take a look and see what's up. 

Joe,  Glad to hear that you are having success.  The buttons will help. 

Bob & Carolin, I agree, time-there just isn't enough of it.

Candace, Whenever I have questions I use the Google search engine and start reading.  There is a wealth of information on the internet.  It is a great place to start.  Give me a call, we'll have a chat. 

 

12:32pm • #127
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Rebecca, I  am from Queens, Sister in Dix Hills, Brother in No. Massapequa, lol... Don't have a problem with referrals, just the scraping way it is done. 

Lanre, 1 Park Place is a provider of a very specialized kind of IDX service which includes a back end lead management system.  It is quite incredible.  Thank you.

Bill, It's not just the social sites, it's the sites we are adding our listings onto, the directories that we subscribe to , the forums we contribute to.  It's the sheer multitude of them.  Yahoo, Trula, Zillow, Movato, homes.c, homegain, housevlu, homes&land, mybloglog, myspace, facebook, linkedin etc...  just to name a few.  The listing sites, for example; most of these sites are not licensed brokerages, they do not get the listings fed to them, so they provide access for agents to input the info.  Their sites allow the listing to rank individually on the engines, agent sites do not have that option.  Imagine if all of the listings, country wide, were able to rank on the engines in all of the areas.  There would be a search engine traffic jam.  

I have been careful about where I put my info on line.  Also a lot of them must have no follow tags on the links because you are right, they don't all show up for some reason.   

 

12:44pm • #128
113,238 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Laurie - You didn't really specify in your initial post that you were specifically talking about adding local content (i.e. blogging for these companies).  You simply said not to patronize lead generation services.  That was what I was responding to.  The problem with what you are saying now is that, although you have a large audience here in AR, that make up a very small percentage of the total number of agents in the U.S.  Telling these agents here not to use lead generation services, in essence, boycotting them, is like telling people on 3 streets in a city not to use gas from a certain gas station.  It is just a drop in the bucket unfortunately, because most agents are not where these agents are at yet (technologically speaking and understanding the value of networking on AR).

I completely agree with you that there has to be a better way. The agents should be able to provide proof that the lead contacted them outside of HomeGain (or whatever other service) and not have to pay the referral fees.  The referral fees shouldn't be so high.  The list could go on and on.  However, just as BP isn't going anywhere, neither is HomeGain simply because too many people use them (and have success with them as well).

Anyway, I agreed with lots of other points in your post - particularly about placing calls to action.  You are 120% right that they should be on your website and in all of your other forms of communication with your target audience.

~Renae

12:49pm • #129
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brian,

Have you had more than a marginal impact on my success.  Yes you have - and I on yours.  It is a symbiotic relationship that works for us on many levels.  It is interesting that you are reducing this to Yet, if I write on Home Gain, Laurie believes that I'm "just a vendor"  because you know that is not the case. 

It is also not true that I want to have any influence on your online presence - and you know it.  This is isolated.  Homegain blog is beneath you, it is an obviously controlled environment, not unlike Stepford, and not like you.

Cut you loose?  You have got to be kidding!  Damage to my business?  Demanding that you abandon other online marketing interests?  It's a little to early in the morning for me to deal with this becoming a major drama.  Where the hell are you taking this?

What if?  Ok, you want to go there?  There was life before Brian Brady, there would be life after.   I always roll with the punches Brian, we have no choice in this life - life goes on...

 

Paul, Advertising?  The only advertising on this post is the link you left without asking if it was ok.

 

Larry, Brian is doing a What If.  I don't know how my customer service became involved in this, it is not a part of this. 

Janet,  There are so many threads in this post that it is becoming a candidate for the most ADD post of all time.  

Brian, Reel it in.  It's not about your marketing.  It's about PR6 backlinks and selling your soul for them.   

 

 

1:00pm • #130
258,145 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

This is a good conversation to have.

Laurie knows I'll leave Home Gain because I suspect they censor my next post; we're THAT symbiotic in our efforts.  I'll be talking about THIS very topic for originators; how to use HomeGain so that originators can get to the customers first, before the agents do.

Here's another thought.  Who else but Laurie Manny can understand the importance of independence in your online efforts?  Who else could have this conversation?  Very few agents have the confidence to discuss this.

I'll bet Laurie could teach originators how to usurp agents in their marketing efforts.  In fact, I'd love to see Laurie teach a course on that. 

Can any agents actually think about this concept intellectually, like Laurie, to help originators dominate a local market?  Wouldn't it be better to have originators give you business rather than to solicit it from you?

1:13pm • #131
101,037 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Wow wouldn't you know that as a newbie I clicked onto a blog that has turned out to be one of the most interesting series of threads I have ever followed. I am addicted to it and seeing who says what next. Out of curiousity, do many Active Rainers take blogs to this extreme (I am talking personally) or was there some underlying emotions waiting to hatch? I understand that everyone has an opinion (me included) but not quite understanding the "digging" that is so prevalent here.

By the way, I too am a member of homegain. I was one of the ones that got on for free. Do I find it productive and/or profitable? No, but I am sure that has more to do with me and how I approach the whole homegain "Concept" which is not with adoration. I use it as another way for my name to come across, branding per se.  Did it ever cross my mind that I was undermining my web presence? No it did not. Do I now? I'm thinking......

1:33pm • #132
113,238 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Martha - Not all blogs get this much activity! lol  And I don't think most of it is actually "digging."  People are just comfortable expressing their opinions on Laurie's blog, that's all!  Plus, the fact that she had so many different topics in her post to discuss, people picked different things to talk about.

~Renae

1:51pm • #133
101,037 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Thanks Renae- That's great news! Having not experienced this before I guess I was kind of surprised at how open others are. I am glad to hear its "normal and comfortable" so I will just snuggle down a little more.
1:58pm • #134
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Martha,

Ha, you walked into the Brian Brady/Laurie Manny Soap Opera.  Brian and I have a wonderful relationship, he a phenomenal lender and blogger and co-authors on my outside real estate blog.  Brian is my lender of choice, and has become one of my best friends.  We love to debate issues and often take them to the extreme and learn from these experiences.  This is the first time we have actually done this on a blog, it is usually late night phone conversations.   To answer your question, Brian often takes his blogs to this extreme, I rarely do.  We're just having some fun with each other, Ok, so we are a little weird, what can I say? 

Basically everything that has been said in this entire post is directed at getting people to think.  To consider the reaction to our actions.  To take what belongs to us and to run with it.  I certainly hope it has accomplished that.

It's good to think...  

2:01pm • #135
101,037 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Hi Laurie- Ranae sort of filled me in before you. What can I say, I'm a newbie. You and Brian are certainly on my blog watch! So continue the great blogs and threads. You've got MY attention!
2:08pm • #136
101,037 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Laurie, I just had to tell you, after I received the email that was you responding on Lead Generator, right behind it came an email that I had a lead from Homegian. I had to laugh. Timing is everything!   
2:16pm • #137
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Wouldn't it be better to have originators give you business rather than to solicit it from you?

Only if they were honest and working in the consumers best interest.  I wouldn't want leads from most lenders.  How do you tell a buyer that the lender who referred them to you has found a crappy loan for them that is too expensive, not in their best interest and has too much in fees and still keep the client???  The agent ends up in service to the lender to the detriment of the consumer.  

 

2:37pm • #139

Okay Laurie,

I know I'm not an agent, but I had to read it!  I really wanted to put something on the bottom of my blog, but didn't think I could.  YOU ARE GREAT!!!!!!! 

Don't stop!  I'm taking major notes!

2:39pm • #140
288,757 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Wow Laure, fabulous post. I completely 100% agree, and now, I need to get some cute buttons. I already put my website info at the bottom, but will now add some other useful links. Google finds me all of the time on AR. I want them to find me more from my blogs/websites.

I actually read - but for maybe the last ten comments - the entire post. I could see you spent the most part of your day commenting, responding, etc. As I said before, this was wonderful, and made lots of sense to many of us it appears. For sure, to me. ;-)

Thanks for taking your entire day!!!

Pepper

4:40pm • #141
419,350 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Laurie - This is the answer I expected to get back. I agree that the sites you mention like Trulia, Homegain, and the like are taking away business. You mentioned social networks originally - I don't see those sites as true social networks.

I see those sites as "middlemen" like you mentioned. Social networks like linkedin, naymz, facebook, and many more are not stealing our business. In fact a site like naymz, AR, Realtown, and others only serves to enhance our business.

5:17pm • #142
Laurie,  when I started to take a look at my web presence, I filled out every FREE directory that would allow me to put my name out there.  Last time I googled my own name I had over 2 pages worth.  And I admit I made the mistake of paying for leads that has produced nothing.  OK, so now I'm second guessing these ideas.  I have been blogging seriously for about 2 months now.  How do you feel about Blog Directories?
6:20pm • #143
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

D Bass, Thank you.

Teri, Thanks, good luck with the buttons. 

Bill,  I am not saying they are taking away our business.  I am saying that by building up all of these many networks, regardless of whether they are social networking sites, listings sites, RE Forums, that we are building up their Search Engine rank and that with the sheer volume of them that they will eventually bury us if we are not careful.  

Tracy, Lets see, until about 3 years ago, I couldn't get past the bottom of the 5th page of Google in my area because the first 5 or 6 pages were almost straight directories that we built up.  This is part of why I am saying, we are doing it again with all of these other sites. 

6:34pm • #144
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bill,

Lets do a possible scenario.   Lets say that 75% of the agents across the country contribute their listings to Zillow and Trulia.  These contributions send both to the top of Google in almost every market niche.  Then lets say they both announce that they are going into the real estate business.  Here they sit, at the top of the engines, with 75% of the nations inventory, in a position to grab the largest % of internet traffic (buyers) to match to the listings.  Do you see any problems here?

6:41pm • #145
237,898 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

wow are you kids still caring on here?   I think you're going to have to do more posts on this subject and break it down step by step for the "people"

Aside from that why don't ya take a break in a couple of weeks and come visit us in vegas?

7:20pm • #146
11 Featured Posts

OH man 146 comments.  Wow!  Loved the kissy-kissy.

 

 

7:20pm • #147
Localism Sponsor
Laurie - great post, just wanted to let you know that I love the way you write and your posts are always interesting, keep it up! You must be a master at time management!
7:39pm • #148
188,321 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

All I have to say Is WOW!!!!! I feel like I walked right into a battlefield.

 

8:16pm • #149
172,867 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Des, Yeah I am tired.  Vegas?  Hmmmm, that could be fun...send me details in email. 

Kevin,  lol...buddy, you missed the fun...

Yvonne, Thank you...I don't get much sleep...

Mana,  LOL, not a battlefield, just heated debate,   

8:43pm • #150

I am blown away!  Fabulous post!  I have a true resentment for these companies who grab our leads and sell them back to us.  It's no different than the relocation companies who pay the transferees' moving expenses on the backs of the Realtors who are forced to give them up to 35% of our commission checks!

We agents need to take back our power!!  Power to the Real Estate People!!

 

8:54pm • #151
11 Featured Posts
I miss the old days when "battlefield" and "collateral damage" were spot on descriptors.  Advice:  never back away from a good-old fashioned knock down, drag out WAR.
9:24pm • #152

Laurie, brilliant! I am totally impressed. You should be on a panel at Inman Connect SF, and I'll be sending that email to them right after I finish