OK I admit - I post  A LOT  of photos and some of it was for points.  However, I take very nice photos and people learn about the community with those photos. This isn't crap - most of the photos were edited and tweaked and framed and most have a good deal of commentary attached to them.  I also do a lot of localism and you get very, very few comments or points for doing localism period. I about died of shock when one of my localism posts was actually featured.  But that shouldn't be such a rare event that true localism gets featured. 

 Personally, I think a lot of the grousing about points for localism photos was jealousy. Some people just don't take pictures and others do.  Just limit it the way you limited points for comments and the abuse would stop. It frankly takes far more effort to go out there in the cold and wet and heat and run around with a camera and take pictures then it does to post (often) senseless comments that are no more than 100 characters in length.  Yet the points for comments are the same.

For newer people, they need to be able to pile up points without degrading their blogs to a meaningless blather in the name of securing 200 points.  I see far too much of that going on - including multiple posts by the same people hogging the blogroll trying to play 'catch up'. I refuse to do that.  There seems to be no way to police that either. You get 200 points for posting nonsense and 200 points for posting quality. So since I don't write posts that engender a lot of comment and since I don't get a lot of features, I may have to decide just how much junk I can get away with and not lose customers or readership.  

On a more practical note:  I think you should allow points - even more than for comments, but limit it to 10 pics a day.

Question:  Will there be a way for me to organize the photos I have at some point??? Some of them were taken with the idea that they would be posted in order of their being taken.  I have a couple of shopping/ walking tours.   The comments were meant to guide the view through an area - In some I featured interiors of small shops so viewers could get the character of the shops etc.  These were Mom & Pop shops that have a lot of character and are all located together.  I also have some interiors of art galleries etc.  They look funny out of context, but they are terrific localism when organized. 

Actually Eric, I did post  2 photos of my dogs - but it was in the context of the dog parks of Westchester.  I sometimes do interior shots of retail shops - One was a flower shop.  It was before I realized I couldn't control how the pictures came up.  I was trying to show some high-end retail for buyers who come from the city.  I'm targeting this type of buyer - and its a tough sell.  The more upscale ANYTHING they see the better.  Manhattanites are engineered to think anything you get outside Manhattan is by definition - inferior. 

As for points....I have a rant coming on that - it will be very interesting! 

The problem is that there are very few ways in which new members can get ahead on the points system without having a mechanism like photos to fall back on.  Everyone is allowed 10 posts a week. I've seen a ton of trash posted in the name of getting those 200 points.  One very major blogger confirmed that she was doing whatever it took to get in the 10 posts (supposedly even if they are trash) until she got so far ahead of the crowd that she could "relax" and post what she wanted.  That's ludicrous and hardly what the intent of blogging was initially.  Also, localism posts by their nature incite few, if any comments.  Posting photos redressed this balence and allowed me the luxury of posting what I wanted to - which has been of high quality (if I do say so myself!) while still moving up in the ranks.

Right now new members are limited to 10 posts a week and 10 comments a day.  It can be very difficult to post 10 QUALITY posts a week - and contrary to what old-timers think - getting noticed for features is far harder now then it was for you.  Barring features, raking up points is almost impossible. 

I have to say, that the oldtimers have won this round.  They wanted to make it HARDER to rack up points. So all AR has done with this is secure the position of most old-timers.  Not a good move.  

Brian,

With all due respect, we are coming from two different areas.  I am trying to move ahead, you are trying to protect your position at the top of your county.  I've got someone in front of me just as determined to keep their place and someone coming up behind me. Being totally objective and honest, neither are killing themselves with the quality that they input - which means that they can get to that 10 post a week limit very easily.  I can't. I write well and I write fairly fast, but I take CARE before I publish something on the internet.  It might be my Ph.D. from a former life, but I can't take it back once its out there and I don't want to do something that I will regret. I am slower than some, but my quality speaks for itself. I rarely post garbage - and strangely enough, when I do, I get far more points than when I post high quality material that consumers want. (By trash, I mean "i've reached 100 posts" etc.)

You came to AR in June.  I came in Sept. You had three months to build things up when the AR population was LOWER. I too have been featured in localism - and its great. But as the AR population has grown exponentially both types of  features  become harder and harder to come by.    Early on, I was featured twice. Now its a looooong time before I get those badly needed features that give me a leg-up over the competition.  I too have an advantage over those who came in in 2008. 

As the AR population grows, it becomes harder and harder for people to move ahead.  Its harder to build associations and readership because there are more posts to read within the forum.  Note that even with increased readership, we see a lot of the same faces on the  features board. Why?  They are good - I would never take that away from them BUT there is another reason.  They built their readership in a less crowded AR. They were established before the crowds moved in and with that readership, their posts get flagged and noticed by the AR Gods more readily.  In my recent feature, a major poster noticed my blog and flagged it.  The flags are apparently important, and the old-timers (who are also strong writers) get flagged more - so they get more features, more comments, more new readers.

My problem is staying ahead and getting ahead without resorting to posting less than 100% solid posts.  Posting GOOD photos was one way it could be done.  The fact is that without having other mechanisms in place beyond 10 posts a week and 10 comments a day, there is almost NO WAY that  a new person can get ahead in their city or county IF the person on top  is willing to post 10 posts a week of dubious quality and 10 comments a day - also of dubious quality.  Getting featured either on LOCALISM or on the main board is now far too rare an event for even a good writer to count of for moving ahead. 

The problem is that the points system works when the forum is SMALLER.  Now that it is larger, all it does is protect the status quo AND encourage junk posts and comments.  The bad photos are the least of the problems.  Look at some of the posts and comments that junk up the system!  The situation not only protects the status quo, but encourages mediocrity in the name of getting ahead.  I'm in the sandwich - People creeping up (with 5 blogs posted back-to-back hogging the blogroll) and people in front who will do whatever to negate any efforts of mine to move ahead. If quality doesn't count, and other means are not in place, I will be stuck.  I won't be able to get ahead.  

Sorry Eric,

I wasn't actually saying that. Most of the top writers are good..they either have a force of charisma going for them or strong ability with information on real estate generally etc.  But I was trying to say - without being rude that they are getting featured more than they deserve and that it is getting harder and harder to get noticed as a newbie.  What I was trying to say on another blog - is that they a wrong that a newbie can get ahead if they "want to."  I'm not so sure about that. Not sure at all. The poster said she worked 6 hours a day on her blog and was  near the top in a very competitive State (BB & TLW  are her competition.)  Well that's simply not PRACTICAL. Putting all your eggs in the AR basket is very, very dangerous IMO and I have clients to take care of! Unless I go on 2-3 hours sleep - that's not happening in the near future. You can be as passionate as you like, but you have to look at what you are trying to do!  We have our businesses to run and we have to spread around our internet time so it makes some sense. 

Is it human nature to climb a ladder and pull it up behind them? Absolutely! And I think a lot of this was sour grapes with the new AR population threatening to steal their thunder.  They also have a misguided idea about how easy it is to get ahead on AR. I don't think any of the new rainers went out on that kind of a limb by devoting 6 hours a day to blogging. The sheer force of numbers made it easier for THEM than it was for ME and will make it easier for ME than people who start in 2008.  You can't get around the numbers. 

What they have done now is take away any way in which someone can truly get ahead unless the person in front of them backs down.  The pictures were the last bastion for the newbie to get ahead without HAVING TO BE FEATURED REGULARLY - or at least MORE THAN THE PERSON IN FRONT OF THEM.

As I said, the old-timers won this round by whining inceassently about points for photos.  

Hi Gina, Welcome to AR.

1. What would a junk comment be?  "Hi - great post - have a nice day!" would be a classic example.

People were doing that 50 times a day in the beginning. So they limited people to 10 comments/day - for points (if you don't care, you can comment all you want.)  It didn't stop the junk responses, but it slowed it down.

2. A junk post?  Harder to define.  I would say writing barely enough words for it to count.  I see a lot of posts with barely one paragraph pointing to an article in the NY Times or an Inman news article - with little or no elaboration.  If you see people posting 20 of these in a row - I would tend to define it as junk.  Posts just a few sentences long - just long enough to "count." I see a lot of those.  AR tried to cut down on these by limiting people to 10 posts a week for points.

Notice how over time, AR has restricted the number of points a person can get in a day.  I understand why - to cut down on the "junk."  In as much as anything would work in this department - it has helped cut back on the garbage.  You can't cut it out completely - and 10 posts a week is  a lot of posts.

3. Junk photos are harder to define.  A bunch of photos of your pets when you are posting to localism is an issue. pictures of your child's birthday party.  It needs to be relevant to the local area.  Some photos just need to be put in their proper context. Others are just silly. But they came under target for being limited recently. It was the one last mechanism a new person had to move ahead of an active Rainer in front of them WITHOUT getting featured frequently. 

Now, you have to count on features.  But that doesn't work so well for  a new person.  It seems that features  depend on others flagging the post. WHo is going to get flagged the most?  People with READERS. Who is likely to have the most readers? People who have been around for a very long time who built up a readership when there was LESS COMPETITION FOR EYEBALLS.  Imagine when there were only 20,000 AR members - it would be much easier to stand out.  So a new Rainer is up against very big odds to build up readership if the top person in their county is active and has racked up over 100,000 points.  If they don't want to give up their spot, they'll start posting in response to your posts in order to stay ahead - and odds are, they will get more features - which means more exposure and more points.  There has been a big problem with looking for new posts.  There are too many people posting to monitor the best posts and find them. So I think they are counting on flags from others and going with the tried and true favorites.  Many of the top posters are excellent.  But some seem to be featured a bit too often.  You can't tell me there aren't other posters that are just as good - they are just getting lost in the shuffle. 

I am in the middle. I started in mid-Sept. A lot of people had many points in front of me - but it was not nearly as difficult as it is now. I used my skills in photography to rack up quite a few points and I'm sure the people in front of me in my state hated it, but my answer was "get off your butts - get outside and start taking pictures if it bothers you." It was one of the few things that took a lot of physical work - that gave a new person an advantage if they were any good at it. It is also an activity that a lot of Rainers won't bestir themselves to do unless they are VERY determined to stay ahead. It's a lot easier to sit in front of your computer and write comments.

In other words, as AR has restricted things more - it has been to the advantage of old-timers over and over again.  And yes, it is human nature to want to climb the ladder while pulling it up behind them.  They work to get to a position and they want to STAY there and not have to kill themselves doing it.  The photos bothered a lot of people who had racked up a lot of points.  That is no coincidence.  So they started whining and complaining that photos shouldn't be worth points. Why not? It takes more effort to go out and photograph a neighborhood and post a picture then it takes to write a 20 word comment.  Yet, they are worth the same number of points.