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"Re-listing" on Nightline - NO Wonder people don't trust REALTORS® * UPDATED

I was getting ready for bed when I hear this story on Nightline - that just made my head spin!

The story was about "Re-listing" properties; to "hide" or manipulate the Days on the Market. They interviewed an agent in Minnesota with RE/MAX, Joe Niece who says he and I QUOTE "I believe I may be the most aggressive person in the entire state, maybe even in the United States". He PROMISES to sell a house in 60 days. BUT NOT REALLY...

"Re-listing is really just refreshing the home on the market - making the home look like it just came on the market." he says.

Nightline went on to say, he cancels his listings once they hit 70 days on the market then he re-lists them. He goes on to say; "...we re-listed about 60 Percent of homes at least once". AT LEAST ONCE?!?!

The reporter asks "Is this deceptive to Buyers?". He says, "Well NO, it's not like they had water in their basement and we are hiding it. That would be deceptive."

Nightline reports that the NAR says they don't regulate Re-listings; because they are not aware of a problem.

Mr Neice goes on to say, "It's let the Buyer Beware, if you go out a buy a car and don't have someone check it out, you deserve a bad car."

I find this practice completely deceptive and appalling. Do we really wonder why people think so poorly of Real Estate Agents? Who could trust a REALTOR after watching this story.

In Washington DC, our MLS considers Days on Market a material fact and imposes STIFF penalties for such violations. 1st Offence is a warning; 2nd offence $1000 fine; 3rd offence $3000; 4th or more - $3000, suspension and possible termination from the MLS.

Why other MLS's do not feel accurate Days on Market is important is a bit crazy!

This should be considered un-Ethical by ALL REALTORS!

UPDATED ********* Read the last comment by the man himself. He says "Nightline taped for over 6 hours and took the statements that you write about out of context but you never bother to contact me."

My answer to this:

1) I took this in the same content the the average American consumer who saw the news article saw it.
2) If you don't like the way you were quoted; why do you mention you were featured om Nightline on your website.
3) Anyone who is interviewed by the media; should expect this to happen.
4) If you in fact "Re-List"; I feel (along with a whole bunch of my colleagues) that it IS unethical.

Posted by James Downing - REALTOR®,GRI, ABR - DC Real Estate on 02/20/2008 11:34 PM

Comments (53)

realtors, professional standards

Originally posted at: DC Real Estate News: "Re-listing" on Nightline - NO Wonder people don't trust REALTORS® * UPDATED

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53 Comments on "Re-listing" on Nightline - NO Wonder people don't trust REALTORS® * UPDATED

FEB

2008

Oddly enough in this current market buyers are looking for homes that have been on the market the longest. Seriously. Go figure.

James, I am an appraiser and I can say that the practice you describe is a major pain for us. IT is deceptive, I believe. Thanks for posting this.

When I appraise a property I have to search for all of the listings of the subject and comps to make sure I don't miss cancelled listings and relists. Our MLS here now shows CDOM for properties and it is helpful however I have noticed every so often that one gets by. Days on the market is an important indicator and I am glad to see the MLS's cracking down on the relisting process.

I'd also like to see a spot where concessions must be reported on the MLS after closing...am I wishing for too much..smile??

In Las Vegas, our board switched to Cumulative Days on Market a few months ago. Unless a property has been off the market for 90 days, the DOM keeps running.

Hey James,

I'm a mortgage guy - I teach Ethics for the local mortgage association. I'd fail Joe Niece just on principal. Too bad he gets all the publicity from this and his listings will probably increase.

FEB

2008

Hi James - The Triangle MLS also switched to Culmulative Days on Market, apparantly for the same reason.

Best Wishes,

Kelsie
www.TriangleChoiceRealty.com

Deceptive and unethical, but agents have been doing that for a long time. The fines are too small.

I always check the history on a property if I have a buyer that is hot on the trail just for that reason. I can say that I have "re-listed" properties but there had to be a very good reason to do so such as a new price along with some major upgrades.

James,

The St. Louis MLS requires homes to be off the market 60 days before the days reset. I don't know if I like the CDOM though. I thinks it can be unfair if you get a listing that another agent had on the market for 120 days and did nothing to market the home. Now the owner wants you to sell it and you have another obstacle to overcome that was beyond your control. I believe that if the listing is taken by another agent, the days should reset. Too many variable can play on the previous listing.

Shame on Joe Niece for his comments. What I hear him saying is, "I am lying to you about selling homes in 60 days and I only list bad homes." That would make me want him as an agent.

James, it's called "churning" in our MLS area...and it's against the rules ( a finable offense).

Well the question is does the public know how long they have been trying to sell it? many are FSBO's for 3-6 months then listed with one agnet then another. To be honest I don't think it matters. How long it has been on the market may be many different factors, One agent could have it overpriced, while the next had horrible pictures, the house is the same. I don't think it matters. It's like looking at the tax assesment, I tell people it isn't a real number. Some are high, some are low.

The mechanics of someone relisting a property for a number that is not accurate anyway is not that important. If the home is worth the money based on a CMA and the homes the buyer has looked at, then they make an offer. Sorry I think it's a lot about nothing. That's like saying a new listing agent should disclose the house was on the market before for x days and off the market for two months then fsbo for 3 months. It's not essential.

Our MLS here shows cumulative days on market, unless a home has been off for 91 days or more. Some un-ethical agents get around this by not using the correct parcel number. It ticks me off to see the serial violaters get away with it time and time again.

James: What a clown this guy is. I cannot believe RE/MAX puts up with it. In our Fort Worth MLS, we have found a way to combat this nonsense. On each listing there is a box for days on the market, and another one for "cumulative days on the market." That pretty much does away with that silliness. Thanks for sharing.

Here on Cape Cod, there is DOM as well as CDOM on our MLS. However, since this is a small town, all Agents know how long a property has been listed regardless of what the computer says.

We can look up history of the property and as a Buyer's agent I look it up.Sometimes it may have been previously listed with another agent . I can thus also find out the original asking price.

Sounds deceptive and manipulative to me. I can see him getting the boot!

Your Friend in Charlottesville!

James - I have heard of this happening here too. My agent told me about it a few years back but said they changed the MLS to cumulative like the others are saying. In Washington State.

And yes, that is deceptive. It could say the home was overpriced, maybe had prior offers that failed, etc.

I will feature this for you. Thank you for sharing.

Sounds like it is working for him. But why go on Nightline and tell the world you are unethical?

I bet it is only a matter of time until his luck runs out. After seeing him on Nightline would you want to use him as an agent...

This seems to be a common practice on our MLS. It gives the house a "fresh" look as it shows up again on the hot sheets as a new listing and people look at it that may have missed it before. As a buyers agent I always look through the history to give my client the true DOM.

I agree... I also wrote a post about this from an MLS view of the issue:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/388681/Days-On-Market-A

I will never forget years ago watching those night time news shows and seeing a lie in progress. They were "reporting" on a company I worked for and they were flat out lying. I knew because I had seen what they were talking about but the general public wouldn't have a clue how they stretched the truth. I guess they think only scandal will sell.

James, I'm one of those that do relist. However, our MLS has a history of our listings for other agents to view. I look at every listing before I write offers to let the buyers know days on the market Does your MLS allow the same? If they don't, I see why this would be a problem.

I have news for you...

Just because everyone does it - DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT OR ETHICAL

Just because you can "Look up the Truth" DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT OR ETHICAL (I can probably "look up" if any contactors had to pump water out the basement too... so why dosclose that?)

I have lost a lot of respect for RE/MAX for allowing this guy to get away with this. A LOT.

James, when agents brag on TV about bein sneaks on little stuff, the viewing audience assumes we all are sneaks about everything. Who is this guy? Can we put gum in his hair?

Some buyers might be looking for homes that have been on the market for a long time because they feel the longer it has been on the market,the more the seller will be willing to reduce the price. But if real estate professional price the property right the first place instead of overpricing it like 20% trying to be greedy- ( that's why I feel agents overprice listings ),maybe homes will sell a lot faster. And what does that say about me as a real estate professional if listings in the same area where I have a listing is selling in less than 70 days but yet mine is still on the market 60 days after similiar listings in the same subdivision have been sold? This is a response to Bob and Carolyn's -Oddly enough in this current market buyers are looking for homes that have been on the market the longest. Seriously. Go figure.

James - I know that you are even more upset considering Joe Niece is a Re/Max Agent just like yourself. Like you said,that's why people don't trust us anymore. We are even worse than car salesmen now. That's really bad. Great post.

FEB

2008

JAMES - I think that the practice is the worst for fellow REALTORS trying to price homes based on comps, but realistically, it shouldn't matter to the homebuyer. If the home fits their needs, and doesn't have any problems that would cause someone to shy away from the home, the buyer shouldn't be overly concerned. We have a rule here that it must be off the market for 30 days if it is withdrawn from the market, unless it comes out with a new broker.

James - I have heard of this being done, but do not think it is a common practice. It should be made totally illegal! great post!

I couldn't agree more. This practice IS, at it's very core, DECEPTION, and it should NOT BE TOLERATED! Secondly, the fact that this @$$clown just feeds the stereotype is the whole reason the associations need to start cleaning house. Our image will never improve as long as this type of behavior is not only accepted, but rewarded.

Add to it, this guy is actually proud of his appearance on nightline. He has it proudly displayed on his website in the "about us" section. What a schmuck.

James - This is a huge practice in MN. I always check a property's history before writing an offer... and, I totally agree with your post.

It is a silly practice that does not affect decisions by people doing a good job. Everyone looks at a property's history before making an offer, and very few are naive enough to search for properties based on DOM. There was a time when it would gain a property more attention by appearing in list of new properties on the market, but most good agents use custom searches for those types of lists these days. It's merely a way to corrupt the statistics available.

Did this agent NOT realize he was basically being set up? The way she stated the questions etc and he was just pleased as punch with himself and his ego!!! And we wonder why most of the world treats us like"used Car salesmen"

That is deceptive but what amazes me the most is how the media always finds the dumb****s to talk to and these clowns are proud to stand up and be stupid in front of the world.

Joe certainly made a hit. Good Buyer's agents will tend to business and his tactic will have no affect on them. The unfortunate aspect of this is the impression it leave on the general public trying to make a decision on buying or selling a home.

You don't want to get too cute that you out smart yourself. We can only hope that Joe's ego got the best of him and he falls off the radar. At the very least NAR now knows that potentially it could be something they need to address.

The market is tough enough that we can expect more from one of our own. Sorry, based on Joe's comments let's hope he is not one of ours for the majority of us.

So many people ask me how long the property has been on the market. BPOs ask for the days on the market. If we look at the MLS figures, and they are not right, we have to either dig deeper to tell the truth or just go with what the book says. I HATE agents who try to be deceptive with this information. But you know who it might deceive?? And that might be good??? Those agents who come into our territory from too far away to know our area....in order to represent their buyer.....and don't know the property has been on the market for 3 years because the MLS says 30 days! hee hee hee.....

FEB

2008

It would be great if you read the comments or contacted the person that you slam. Nightline taped for over 6 hours and took the statements that you write about out of context but you never bother to contact me. People that do this cause half of the problems in Real Estate.

FEB

2008

Hmmmmm, interesting. Not having seen the Nightline piece nor the entire 6 hours of taped material I can't comment specifically - and as one who has been quoted and misquoted in the press more times than I can remember, I'll be willing to give you a pass (although the quotes sound pretty specific and damning). I hope you are being truthful when you say you were misquoted because otherwise this is not something to be bragging about, especially on national TV.

Our mls shifted policy a couple years ago to eliminate this problem as some agents seemed to feel it was OK to misrepresent the facts. Now we have ADOM and CDOM as well so if the property is cancelled and re-listed by the same agent it shows, and if listed by another agent it still shows. If cancelled and relisted by the same agent, new paperwork is supposed to be submitted with seller signature and if it can't be produced, a fine is levied. That stopped the BS and data integrity has improved..

Absolutely James! The only reason for an agent to re-list a home is to toy with DOM and to mis-lead consumers into thinking it is a "new to the market" home.

If there is another reason, I would like someone to tell me...

There's DOM and there's CDOM. Anyone who doesn't look at CDOM is an idiot, and it's not the selling agent's fault.

For the record, I just bought a home with Joe Niece and couldn't be happier about his service. He's as honest and straight-up as they come.

I don't know about quotes being taken out of context and I'm not a REALTOR, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt if you choose.

The listing agent has a fiduciary duty to disclose all known factors that affect the value of the property. DOM affects value. Trying to hide the true DOM by re-listing a property, as a marketing strategy, is not honest and straight-up.

Joey, you are correct, a good buyer's agent will investigate the true DOM. It doesn't change that this particular marketing strategy may cross the line ethically. Another part of our duty as a Realtor (a member of NAR) is to help maintain the data integrity of our system, the MLS. You can't do when you purposely tweak data such as DOM.

It's nice to see a client have such a high opinion of their agent, he must have done a stellar job with you. But if these comments happen to be just as they appear, Joe should probably rethink his marketing strategy, because this strategy is too close to the edge of a potential lawsuit if a buyer down the road feels mislead regarding the value of a home. If he was taken out of context, he should ask for a retraction.

APR

2008

http://www.joeniece.com/: "Yahoo Real Estate, Homes.com Google Joe Niece has been recognized by every major search engine as a marketing expert!" what does this mean? Joe Niece is under federal investigation for his practices on "buying homes if they dont sell".

This is exactly why buyers should hire a buyers agent. How easy is it for us to check how long a property has been on the market? Pretty simple! This practice is against our MLS rules as well, but I still see agents who try it. Fact is that some sellers switch listing agencies for this very reason... they want a "fresh start" or so they think! All the history is easily found in the MLS by a diligent buyers agent. Some MLS systems keep information for a VERY long time. I have a house listed for sale in Ohio which I had tried to sell about 9 years ago and their MLS still has that information and it is attached to the current MLS listing. You can see the entire history without even really trying. Here in NH, we can just search the property address and have the entire history. Re-listing is an "old school" and might I add... very lame practice. Todays consumers are not dumb enough to fall for such a trick. Hard to believe that Nightline found this as newsworthy.

Some agents here try to enter a bogus Parcel number to try and fool the system. Luckily, an address search on all activity for that particular home gets around their fooling around.

The agents who practice business this way just make more work for everyone else.

A good agent will check the listing history for their buyer, but it does not excuse people trying to hide things. Mr. Niece is opening himself up to a lawsuit from a disgruntled buyer.

MAY

2008

When a property is off the market for over 90 days, the DOM & CDOM will reset to zero. As a result, I always provide my buyers with an archived report of the property that appears similar to a mini-spreadsheet. It provides the list dates, change of price date, & TOM date, etc.

As a buyers agent, it is my fidutiary responsibility to bring as much of the information available that will enable to buyer to make a decision on the property.

MAY

2008

I am a buyer's agent and I know my market. If I know a property is Market-worn I pull the properties history to show the buyers the Days on market.

I don't like to see a property get relisted just to start the days over, but it is a common practice, especially with overpriced listings.

AUG

2008

Many agents in our area do the same thing, especially the agents that have been around for a long time or are the big names.

We saw one listing that we know was on the market for months, but right before they put it in pending, they withdrew it and relisted it, so it showed that the agent sold the house in ONE day. Very deceptive!

Unfortunately in the Triangle MLS, the buyer's sheets, which are the only thing we can email to clients, don't have the Days on Market listed. The buyers have to ask us. And when you're showing a client 5 or 6 houses in a day, you don't do an archive report on every house. You do it only after they're interested in a house.

This practice can come back to bite you in one way though. If you pay for Enhanced listings on Realtor.com, everytime you withdraw a listing and relist it, that counts as a new listing. When you hit the next level of homes sold on Realtor.com, your yearly fees go up dramatically.

SEP

2008

Hi James - I like to analyze market statistics and this practice totally skews the results.

And who exactly does this guy think he is fooling??? All the other agents know that this is not a new listing and can click into the history on the house to prove it.

The only use I can see for this behavior is that he can use these distorted statistics (sold in 60 days - the 2nd or 5th time around) in listing presentations to unsuspecting consumers. But if I were an agent in that area, I would include a brief introduction to that practice (with no names) in my listing presentation and let then know that I will deal with them honestly from the start.

So ... ethical or unethical? What does our code say?

Article 12:

I believe a disguised DOM figure is unethical but what you and I believe is not relevant. What needs to happen is for a Realtor in the twin cites to file an ethics complaint and see what a professional standards hearing panel says. The other route is to have your MLS require the use of CDOM as many already do.
REALTORS® shall be honest and truthful in their real estate communications and shall present a true picture in their advertising, marketing, and other representations.

SEP

2008

I think this is a great post. But one thing I think is a joke is when an individual hires an agent to do a job that they don't do and now they have to re-list. Here we have accumulated days on market, so you cant get around it! The MLS takes the address and its stored in a data base, the property then shows how long it has been on the market with all offices.

refreshing is a violation of our MLS in San Diego. They police it diligently.

DEC

. ..We know this was posted awhile ago - but just had to say how much we enjoyed not just the blog, but the comments as well! Wow!

Pederson Properties

As a new agent I didn't really understand why the "fuss" to release and re-list. I thought (and was taught) it was a good way to keep the properties "fresh" in the minds of buyers; it made sense to me...until a local agent started claiming all his properties were sold under 30 days. It made me realize the deception in that kind of practice and was thankful when recently our board made changes and won't allow for release & re-list, and we now show cumulative days on market. The property has to be off the market for 90 days before it can show "new" again.

JAN

In our MLS (ARMLS) the Bord added CDOM Cumulative days on the market, in the last major revision, this is the amount of days that the home has been active on the market, the only way to change the days on the market back to 0 is to have the home off the market for 90 days.

This gets rid of the above problem.

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