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I Had To Say That... Even If You Do Not Like It

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408

I know that this stand is unpopular. But I owe it to people who I know and love. I owe it to people that I do not know, who can't knock to your hearts and souls. I am more privileged, I am a citizen. And as a citizen, I have to say it. 

To uphold the law, if we need to ship the illegals out, we should. You saw it in the comments to two of my other blogs: Are You Ready to Ship Illegals Away?  Everyone has the answer. Even if we do not understand the question Remember a ship carrying German Jews trying to flee the Nazi, and America turned them down? They died. There were a few hundred people and it is still a shame of America.

Do we want to create a humanitarian disaster of biblical proportions? When Afghanistan had 1 million of its countrymen as refugees, who left Afghanistan fleeing from the war and destruction, this is a huge number. When in any other country 1 million people have to leave, this is a humanitarian crisis. If US ships 12 Million people out, this would be a disaster not seen in recent history.

Do we understand that some of these people would end up dead? It is different when you are entering US, or you are entering Russia. People, who have been in this country for 15-20 years... Their children do not really know their native languages, they studied in American schools, they are different, and they will be physically beaten and abused and psychologically broken and destroyed. As a former teacher in USSR, i speak from the experience. You do not even understand the differences. The kids do not understand them, too. I knew a guy here. After he divorced, he took his son and returned to Russia. I remember talking to him before he left, and I asked him what he would be doing with his son and the schools in Moscow. He was surprised by the question, he did not think about it. He was from the established family, his father was a professor in Moscow, no problem with living arrangements. He called me after a bit over a year, he was in England, and he told me that though he had a great job and career, he had to leave because of the kid.

It is a different world. Not that there is less candy or more snow, it is radically different. Different in how you see people, and how they see themselves. We used to grow up with thick skin, we used to grow up and compromise to survive. American teen is not ready for that. It is a physical place. Your size and your strength means everything. It is a place for bullies. You have to be a very strong person, or you may be psychologically destroyed. Personality is one of the most cherished traits in America. Personality is one of the most hated traits in Russia. You do not want to be any different from the pack. Of course, you can learn it, but you will pay the price.

I also want to note that people were coming for decades, and there was a hope, there were amnesties, there were other programs and they are there now, by the way. People change their status from illegal to legal, while they are in the country.

When they were coming to the country on tourists visas, they would go to the immigration attorney, and start the application process. That worked for many years. With September 11 and Patriot Act and other changes, the time for consideration changed and a lot of those illegals just have to wait longer. Now, the overall tone is harsh, the nation wants them out. This is highly political and highly populist.

OK. You want them out. Where are you going to send them? There was a movie about an orca, that was too old  for the Sea World show, so there was a movement to save it. Money was raised, and people tried to teach the animal to catch fish so that it had a chance in the wild. What about millions of people? Do they have a home there? How they will survive? My wife's friend, who, luckily, just got her greencard, used to ask herself this question all the time. She is from Estonia. He husband died in a car accident, her daughter is an American citizen and lives here with her husband and 3 children. To help her daughter, Olga (that's her and my wife's name) sold everything she had, and came here years ago. Since then property values in Tallinn have skyrocketed. If she had to go back, she would be in big-big trouble. She is ethnic Russian, but her dad was a seaman, and they lived all their lives in Estonia. Estonia was forcefully attached to the Soviet Union in 1940 as part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Protocol. A lot of Estonians perished in Stalin's camps.

When Estonia broke up with the Union, they turn ugly against Russians. I can understand their feelings. So, if she would have to go back, there would be no place to stay, she does not have relatives. She would have very little chance to get a job as:
It is difficult to find a job,
It there is a job, it is difficult to get it being ethnic Russian.

Take me. If for whatever reason I would have to go back, it does not mean that I would be even able to do it. I was born to a military MD mom, who was with the Hospital in Tajikistan. By birth I am a Tajik. Since I was 10 months, I lived in Russia until immigrating to US. Russia would not take me as I was not born there. So, where do I go? To Tajikistan, with their clans fighting, no relatives, friends, no social system to help, but plenty of Muslim fundamentalists?

Even worse when you deal with Russian women married to Chechen men. The Chechen were assimilating more than any other nation in the Black Sea region. There were plenty of marriages between Russian women and Chechen men. After the war in Chechnya their lives turned a nightmare. They could not go to Chechnya with their Russian wives, as Chechnya hates Russians and they have the reason for that. But Russians hate the Chechen and they have their reason for that. There is no safe place in the former Soviet Union for them. Send them back, and you are sending them to die.

By indiscriminately shipping out 12 millions people this great nation can turn to be a law abiding killer.

Let me say that I have high regards for the Congress and the Senate. I know that this is not going to happen by a popular demand. I know that as a nation we are smarter than even the most radical group.

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Dawn Rodriguez
HomeRun Title - Hollywood, FL
HomeRun Title - Title Insurance Company

Jon - I understand you're nocturnal! I'm in bed sleeping by 10:30. Again, I do agree with you on the matter of immigrants that are here and trying to do the right thing, therefore, they should not be picked up and sent back. If indeed, it's the system that's failing to execute things in a timely manner. Our second priority (first being to secure our borders), should be to send back anyone who commits certain crimes. This doesn't happen. Some of these people are committing serious crimes but because of where they came from, they are not sent back.

Whenever this subject is brought up, what really bothers me, is just the fact that it is so easy to cross our borders. That's scary. Why do the immigrants come here every day? Because they know how easy it is and know they can get away with it.

Feb 27, 2008 10:02 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jesse & Kathy - When I am having my Russian friends, somebody will always say: well, this is America. We all understand what they mean by that. This is something that only immigrants get, not necessarily Russians, but other immigrants as well. There is some common feeling among immigrants about Americans, about them being so naive and so trustful. Or self centered.

'....people are basically good and given a chance they will act honorably'. This is so typical for Americans. Pretty much the rest of the world knows that people are opportunists and will act honorably only if there is absolutely no other way. It is not that if you put a jar with money in the street one will grab the money and one will not. That's why in Russia you will not see it. People are not born with the ethics and honor. They become honorable and ethical under the right circumstances. If the circumstances are not right, they do not become that. Freedom is the responsibility in the first place. Released criminals often get back very soon. They got the opportunity, they can't handle the freedom. Many immigrants never learned to handle it. So, given the opportunities, they just can't act honorably as they don't know how.

I guess this is part of what America is about. If America was judgemental and distrustful, it would not be America.

 

Feb 28, 2008 12:40 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Bill -  We are now trying to figure how to deal with kicking people out, not in. And , by the way, when people want illegals out, they never ask if they are from the oppressed country or just for monetary gain. Interesting, I did not really think of it before.

Bill, the further we go, the more interesting stuff we learn.

Thanks for visiting.

Feb 28, 2008 12:50 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

 Dawn - Nothing is simple with immigration. Sending criminals out sounds so logical, that it even sounds right, That's what everyone is saying: first - secure the borders, second - ship the criminals out. The problem with this is that when someone breaks the law and has to go to jail, they have to go to jail. If you ship out a criminal, then you make this the safe heaven for criminals. You come and commit a crime and ten you are sent home.

The problem with this scenario is that it has been done so many times with Mexican criminals only to see them back here in just a short time.

When Americans arrest Russian Mafia people and send them to the jail, do you think that they will sit a single day in a Russian jail if you send them back?

It still does not feel right, but simply sending back people who committed crimes here may not be the solution.

Feb 28, 2008 01:24 PM
Jesse Clifton
Jesse Clifton & Associates - Fairbanks, AK

We have a good friend that has taken in foster children for many years... 5/6 years ago they adopted two boys that had been in their care.  The boys came from an abusive home and had spent some time in the 'system.'  It took a few years for them to understand that their new mom and dad were there to provide a loving relationship in which they could grow and prosper.  I believe it's the same with some of the people you talk about that abuse the system or have a propensity to abuse the system.

Is it that they can't handle freedom or have they just not experienced a culture where anything is possible... I would think it would take a while to shed the old mentality of get it while you can.  When people realize that the opportunities that exist in America are unlimited it takes away some of the motivation to cheat... I suppose it could take a generaton or two to fully grasp that concept.  Then again there are others, such as yourself, who already understand and embrace it.

Feb 28, 2008 03:12 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jesse & Kathy -You are absolutely correct about the time it takes for people to embrace the freedom. It is something that does not have the pre-defined meaning. Every country, including the most oppressive declare that they have freedom. And they do. They are free to do something. Every freedom is limited.

When I worked in the Social services, I had clients who were getting very upset when they had to make a choice. I would tell them that they can so this, or that and that they needed to make a choice. Each choice was to somehow reflect on them in the future. We were not used to many choices. In a limited choices situation it was only a matter of the right choice or the wrong choice. This is not freedom. This is walking on the mine field. Step here and you live, step here and you die. But we were calling it freedom. So, when they were faced with multiple choices, which seemed similar, they would turn to me and tell me to pick 'the right' choice. I had difficult time explaining to them that they have to make those choices. Some would question what I was paid for, if I could not make a choice for them. The attorneys there were giving you the right advice what to do. The whole culture was that you were told what to do. The doctor never would discuss with you what his plan was and give you any option. He/she would simply tell you what you do. You did not have a say. This is a rather black and white society, and a culture of simple choices, which, as noted, were either right, or wrong.

Old habits are the most difficult to change. After a couple of years in the Bronx, we finally got to Brighton Beach. This was quite an experience. Signs in Russian, Russian language everywhere. A short Mexican guy in a local grocery watching an old Russian lady looking at tomatoes and then, with the smile from ear to ear, saying in plain Russian: "Бери, дура! Завтра дороже будет" (Buy now, you, stupid. It will be more expensive tomorrow). It looked like Russia in a bit more civilized way, but definitely Russia. hey watch Russian TV, they do not quite understand what is happening here, they get exited by the elections in Russia, and their news are still the Russian news.

Basically, they never really immigrated. They simply created their little (or not so little) Odessa, which is safe, with food, care, and everything else what is important for older people. I guess their children is a different story. But I always thought that if my mom were alive and would go with us, this would have been the ideal place for her.

We never had Russian radio, or Russian TV. We were not looking for Russia with better sausage. In the midst of Perestroika I had so high hopes for changes, and when we got a bit of freedom, I started writing for underground newspapers, I wanted to be the part of new country. In Moscow I used to go to Pushkin Square - a center of political activity in Moscow. I was debating, and then once three guys took me aside and told me very nicely that this was not my country, and I better leave. Then it happened again, then again... then many times again in various situations, and it finally got to me that no matter what I do, I am a foreigner in my own country. Living with the fear of pogroms, not being able to protect my family and knowing that there will be no protection from the law enforcement.

I was dreaming all my life of a country, where you do not need to know a big honcho so that you will not get in jail, where you needed to be one of 'theirs' to be able to buy something in the store, where you have to shake hands with people that stole from you, where you do not need to learn the skill to bribe (i failed this miserably). It is a miracle that I found this here. I was born for this country, but somehow in the wrong place. In major things I am an American. In some small things I am still in between. I will never make it all the way through, and that's fine. I really feel myself at home. I know families where husband is completely American, and wife lives in the past, goes back and forth, unhappy, unhinged. Very tough. I am blessed that I did not have that problem. My wife may have a heavy accent, but this is our home and no nostalgia, and never been. I may be missing some friends, some people there, some memories of my childhood, but not the political machine run by a "progressive" KGB General and his cronies.

Feb 28, 2008 05:21 PM
Jimmy McCall
JimmyMcCall.com - Cunningham, TN
The Ex-Mortgage Consultant

Jon, Great article.  I can tell you put a lot of thought into your position.  Immigration has been a struggle with the citizens of the United States for a long time. It is not just the Hispanics but, we have seen resentment of the Irish, Italians and even Cubans (which we grant asylum).  I think the biggest underlying resentment with the new wave of immigration is the loyalty these people put on their own culture, language, and country. 

Our society has become so politically correct people are looked down on for voicing their opinion if it is not PC.  I think people fear that these new immigrants will not melt into our wonderful melting pot.  I  think language is the biggest resentment.  Americans like having one language and in the end it is what eventually makes us all American.  This PC culture is fueling the resentment by catering to the language needs of this new wave of immigration.  However, with time and assimilation I think all will be overcome. 

Mar 28, 2008 03:10 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jimmy- I think you are rght, it is different immigration now. Century ago these were people who were coming to become Americans, and they were trying to do it as fast as they could.

Now people come to set there little something (Italy, Saigon, Moscow, etc.). They are demanding, they did not came to assimilate, no, they are leaches, came to suck out of America.

Just recently a young lady told me that of course, she would keep her green card, but she would not become a citizen.

Things are often upside down. Because of PC? Maybe, but this is a shame. They want to come here, so we have to set the rules. You take it or leave it, but not come here and set your rules. I can't believe all that discussion of learning a language, and how difficult it is. Hey, 120 years ago people were coming here and learning language OK, and nobody was running after them offering free English language classes. So, what, English was easier then?

As an immigrant, I can state that every one can learn a language, and everyone has proved it by learning their own language once in their life. What is difficult - accent. It is very difficult to get rid of the accent. Hey, nobody is asking for that. The rest of that is simply laziness. Why people do that. because nobody is serious to send them home if they do not learn. If they would know that they have only one year to learn a language, they would learn it in a year. If they would know that they have 6 months, they would learn it in 6 months. If you tell them that you are so understandable, they will not learn it after living in this country for 20 years.

I am not kidding, I know that for the fact.

Mar 28, 2008 04:15 PM
Gary J. Rocks
Juba Team Realty - Jefferson Township, NJ

Jon

Thanks for another well written article. Illegals should be sent back and so should the criminals and their families. If the families have something to loose then they will keep their kids in-line.

Mar 31, 2008 02:24 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Gary -Thanks for visiting. As for illegals, I have a lot of respect for many of them. If you are comparing legal immigrants to illegal immigrants, you may be surprised how taxing for the system are legals. It takes a couple of weeks for illegals to start working, and it sometimes takes forever for legals to start working. Why? Because the illegals are not eligible for the programs like Medicaid, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing, SS Disability, etc. So, all they have is work their way up.

Isn't working hard something that America wants? So, why not look at people who proved that they are hard working people, and let them become citizens?

 

Mar 31, 2008 02:11 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Gary:  I read your comment yesterday, and have been mulling it over... on and off... as to what kind of response to make to you.  The words you have written say one thing, but the attitude conveyed by those words says even more.  The overall anger and harshness of the tone of your comment saddens me.  That is all I choose to say.  Anything else would simply be incendiary on my part.

Mar 31, 2008 05:05 PM
Tchaka Owen
Galleria International Realty - Hollywood, FL

Mary Warren wrote:  "The key word is 'illegal'...if immigrants want to come to the United States legally I have NO issue with it.  This country was built on LEGAL immigrants.  Illegal immigrants are just that - ILLEGAL - and anyone who does something ILLEGAL  pays the consequences"

I'm willing to bet there are a large number of Africans who "built" plenty yet were not exactly "immigrants".

 

Mar 31, 2008 05:28 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices
That's an unexpected twist.
Mar 31, 2008 05:37 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate
Tchaka:  Your point is well taken.  I am guessing that if "some" of those who are so adamantly and angrily against any kind of immigrants from Mexico and further south... could legally own them as slaves... they would change their tune.  Boy am I going to catch it for that one... LOL.  But actually, many of the "illegals" who sneak into the country are probably not treated very much better than if they were slaves by a few of their "employers."
Mar 31, 2008 05:48 PM
Tchaka Owen
Galleria International Realty - Hollywood, FL

Jon - When one steps back to look at a situation, it's easier to see facets often overlooked by others. 

Karen - I hope you have your flame-retardant suit on after that comment!  LOL.  I do agree with you (sadly).

 

Mar 31, 2008 06:32 PM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Tchaka and Jon:  For years, many of the far-right conservatives would parade out their WWJD... What Would Jesus Do... when they wanted to make a point. 

Then, when the same idea is turned around and shown to them... they get all "iffy" and upset... and even scornful.  So... Who Would Jesus Jail ?  Who Would Jesus Send Home ?    Who Would Jesus give Medical Care To ?  Whose Kids Would Jesus refuse to send to school ?  Now, I am by no means a "Jesus Freak."  But, turnabout is fair play.

Here's a good one.  Who Would Jesus Demand that they speak English ?  He didn't !  In fact, it is said that some of his followers were given the gift of "tongues" so that they could speak the language of many different varieties of foreign-speaking persons, and those "believers" who only spoke their own native "foreign" languages themselves could then understand them.

Mar 31, 2008 07:25 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Karen - I think that most often the immigrants are abused by their compatriots. At least this is the case with Russians in Brooklyn. Russian home attendants working for Russian ladies are treated as slaves, that I know.

Would Americans (meaning those who are not from those countries) treat them the same way?

Also, immigrants affect the way people around them. When Russians started coming to Brooklyn in large numbers, they started bribing building superintendents to get into a 'better' building. Two years later you can forget about getting into any building without paying the super at least $500. Russians 'taught' them that.

I remember American personnel in the American consulate in Moscow. They were often rude and obnoxious, just as Russians around them.

 

Apr 01, 2008 01:31 AM
» Bill Burress Nationwide Mortgage Originator
» Bill Burress Nationwide Mortgage Originator - Fort Myers, FL

Jon:

I strongly diagree with your position but I applaud your courage to post it and your tenacity in keeping the idea alive.

Apr 01, 2008 02:04 AM
» Bill Burress Nationwide Mortgage Originator
» Bill Burress Nationwide Mortgage Originator - Fort Myers, FL

Jon:

Congratulations!

This post has earned featured post status on the Silent Majority group in ActiveRain.

 

 

 

 

 

Apr 01, 2008 02:06 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Bill - Wow! Strongly disagree with my position and still awarding the featured status? Isn't that surprising?

I appreciate this very much.

Apr 01, 2008 12:54 PM