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Got copper........................make sure you keep it.

This past weekend I showed a very rural property in an adjoining county. It was in a remote location with 9 acres, a fairly new house, barn, pond, fenced and cross-fenced. The proverbial little piece of country paradise.

My buyers loved it......so much we wrote an offer. Since it was a foreclosure and the owner is a faceless bank in another state who has never even seen the property much less lived there, there was no property condition disclosure to review.

Monday morning I get a call from the listing agent: "Jim, there's a problem with my listing you wrote the offer on." "Over the weekend someone broke in and cut all the electrical wires in the attic and also the copper water supply lines underneath."

So now this house has no wiring and no plumbing.

Theft of copper wiring and piping has became a huge problem in this area; even new houses are being targeting.

Scrap copper is selling for about 2 bucks a pound now so it's very simple and easy for thieves to go in, cut all the exposed pipes and wiring in the attic and in crawl spaces, burn the insulation off the electrical wire and make a trip to the scrap metal yards. You can probably steal anywhere from 10 to 30 pounds of copper from a modestly sized house; at 2 bucks a pound that a minimum of $20.00 up to $75 or a hundred dollars.

Plenty for a few six packs, couple of large pizzas, and a bag of dope for a party. In the aftermath there is several thousand dollars worth of damage left behind for homeowners and sellers to deal with.

Any copper thieves in your neck of the woods???

Jim Lee, CRS, ABR, GRI, ACRE, NAR Certified e-PRO Trainer
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Posted by Jim Lee, Knoxville Tennessee Realtor® on 01/30/2007 12:00 PM

Comments (45)

copper, scrap yards, copper thieves

Originally posted at: Knoxville Tennessee real estate: Got copper........................make sure you keep it.

This post has been included in Tennessee Information

45 Comments on Got copper........................make sure you keep it.

JAN

2007

yep... we have alerts on our MLS.

Oh yes, same thing happened to us. My partner and I sold a house to a guy as a fixer-upper. He was surprised at just how much fixin' up it needed as the plumbing was stolen the day after closing.

I own about 30 properties in Grand rapids Michigan and have had just about everything stolen you can think of one of my favorites was 2 new higheffeciency water heater and furnaces ($6,000) stripped my wiring for copper stripped my plumbing, and stole both my toilets, and they tried to steal the kitchen sink but instead left in in the yard. So they essentially took "everything but the kitchen sink"

Eric Medemar

www.TheMillionairesBlog.com

Wow, I've heard of utility companies having a problem with people stealing hundreds of pounds of copper wiring, but I didn't realize it was getting to the point where it was affecting home owners.

I don't think it is a problem in my area, this is the first time that I am hearing of the problem. The home owners in your area will have to invest in security systems.

I've never heard of that! What is your buyer going to do?

Yessir! It is all over the news. In fact, not just copper. Metal of any kind is getting more on the black market. We have an, as yet, unopened section of I-485 going around the northern half of Charlotte and thieves made off with the newly installed guard rails!! Houses are getting hit here for their copper guttering, everything. It amazes me the gall of some folks.

I have never heard of this before. I feel so bad for the homeowners who get attacked like this.

I heard from an inspector last week that there is something you can paint onto the copper so people can't tell if its copper or not; to me that seems lame since can't you scratch off paint to see what's underneath? Anyway, it's a big issue here; as is aluminum siding from the outside of homes owned by the elderly whose response time is slower.

Hey Jennifer,

In this neck of the woods (literally) a good security system is a German Shepard and a 12 gauge shotgun. This property is out in the boonies.

We're going to ask the sellers to fix it Jessica. Our sales contract says all the heating & plumbing will be in proper working order.

GONE is not "proper working order". ;-)

Sure enough. We catch news stories all to often about job sites getting hit over the weekend. Guess it's less work than actually having to cut the stuff out of vacant houses.

It's a problem everywhere. Air conditioner units are another popular target. The thieves don't even have to break in since the unit is usually at the back of the house.

Just today on the local WBTV news. http://www.wbtv.com/news/topstories/5416156.html Another theft. this time $10K worth of copper from inside a shopping center.

That is an amazing story. So far, no problem with that in our area.

We are having the same issues here in NH also. Pretty sad...

Thanks Jim for exposing this to more eyes.

It seems to be a widespread problem. I heard about it for the first time a few weeks ago from our Sheriff who gave a presentation at our home owners association. Here, copper theft occurs most often from new construction job sites especially in newly developing areas with few neighbors.

We have had this happen so often that some builders are convertig to a nylon tubing type system. I'm not sure what it is called, exactly, but I have been told that it is les expensive, easier to install (therefore faster) and most importantly, much less tempting to steal. Hopefully more builders will discover this method and save themselves some grief.

Silvia, it's easy to steal wiring from new constuction, especially before the drywall is added. The thieves just walk through the house cutting the wiring that runs between the wall studs.

We had some very bold or else very stupid copper thieves last year go into a huge power substation and cut the copper ground wires (which are about the diameter of a garden hose) loose and take them. Luckily for them they didn't cut the wrong thing and get incenerated with the bazillion volts running through those places.

Apparently people will steal most anything. Several years ago thefts of landscaping was a huge problem around new construciton sites. Since all the bushes are small and freshly planted it was easy to just pull them out of the ground and make off with them.

Jim - this is a new one to me! I noticed Jay mentioned above that he's aware of it, but here in my part of NH, I've not heard of this at all. How sad to think about people being desparate enough to do things like this.... I hope it doesn't take hold in my areas.

Ann

This is a big problem here in Vancouver, BC. Take a look at what happened to this would be thief.

Big problem here in central Ohio. They hit vacant listings, new builds, etc. This is occurring in heavily populated areas ... not just in the country, like yours. The city was putting a new copper roof on the foyer section of a downtown building, and during broad daylight, the thieves went up on the roof and removed the copper roofing! The security cameras captured it. They appeared to be just construction workers so no one did anything. Some air conditioners are going away as well due to the copper in the pipes from the home to the outside unit.

Another problem that is occurring is at parking lots and shopping malls. The thieves are crawling under cars and taking the catalytic converter. Apparently it's easy and quick to do.

Then the farmers have an additional problem with people taking their liquid fertilizer tanks to use for meth labs.

We have that problem here too !! Apparently they are stealing copper pipes found in exterior A/C units of occupied homes. I think any way they can get it they will go after it...I check our A/C units all the time.

I amy be naive, but this is a new one for me to deal with. Like others, I have heard of massive thefts from utility companies - but stripping out individual homes - now that is low.

Now Have a Blessed Day,

JohnOcchi, Hemet CA REALTOR
www.JohnOcchi.Com

Wow-I had missed the news stories about homes and shopping centers and the highways...my husband works for Cingular (oops AT&T) and they're having a huge problem with the cell towers. Virginia-you need to talk about this at the business meeting next week!

There have been a few articles about this problem including this one I saved from the WSJ.

P.S. Carnac will be back tomorrow and you get a mention!

I know a number of builders who have had trouble with thieves making off with tools left on site.

It's amazing to me someone would take the risk, and put out all that effort for a few bucks in copper. You'd think these "criminal masterminds" could come up with a more profitable venture.

Well that's a new one for me. But I can't say I am really surprised.

Jim: That may be another explanation of why San Diego homebuilders are planning a move to plastic piping for home plumbing.

JAN

2007

Yeah hear in phoenix. The Sheriffs office just had a news release about it. I had a listing (tri-plex) get hit causing about $25,000.00 worth of damage.

Never even heard such a thing! No copper stealing here in Marin. But, I did see a news article about Aluminum guardrails disappearing...

Mitch in Marin, CA

Jim, I have never heard of this going on in my neck of the woods. I am shocked to hear people do this for a few bucks and the amount of money it costs for repairs can't be cheap. Are they doing anything about this in your area? Thanks for the post it's good to know what people are doing out there.

Jim,

Thanks for the post. If your client is still interested in the property, it would be worth having three contractors provide written estimates for the cost of rectifying the damage. Submit them for a credit from the lienholder. Otherwise, they'll throw a nominal discount off the asking price. Good luck!

It is happening out here. I have heard of some people stealing it from the utility company and getting killed because they were trying to get it off a high voltage transformer. My father in law is an electrician and he had the doors ripped off his supply rigs to get to copper.

How many scrap metal yards can there be in any one area? If stealing copper and other types of metal is becoming rampant, why aren't the records of the scrap metal yards being investigated?

About 20 years ago while still living in northern NJ, I'd heard of a tow truck driver caught on camera spilling oil on a roadway so he could get more business because he'd pretend to be "just passing by" right after an accident would happen. Also, auto repair people have been caught lying about what needs to be repaired in order to make more money. Makes you wonder who may be behind at least some of this stolen copper, huh? I say follow the money... the BIG money.

I recall seeing a show (NBC's Dateline?) that highlighted the problems with new home communities being targeted... and not just by people who don't have much money. They caught on camera a couple loading up their luxury SUV with sod of all things! Sod!!! A few agents down here are finding that their new, but vacant homes (available to show only by Supra electronic lockboxes) are having certain relatively inexpensive items stolen, including the light bulbs in the bathrooms! Any agent who does that must really be hurting for money!

Amazing. The big jobs make sense but I guess, like you say Jim, even though they don't get much, it's enough for them to get their "fix" that day. Pretty sad.

Thanks for the tip William. I think we're going to let the owner repair HIS problem and not let it become my buyer/client's problem.

Leanne, there's currently not very much incentive for scrap yards to police where their scrap comes from. It's also a low priority crime for local police forces, somewhere down around shoplifting and jaywalking. Unfortunately even though the monetary amount of the materials stolen is small, the damage done stealing the stuff in the first place usually runs into the thousands.

Maybe we need to work on a new law incorporating the total damages done into the materials amounts; that should elevate it to felony status.

Seems like I'm hearing more and more about this issue these days. I knew the problems builders were having with appliances being stolen out of new construction. We had all our ceiling fans stolen from our house during construction!

I put my ex-wife in our house every Sunday during construction. No takers.

Should have put a copper tube through her head.

Here is an excellent article on copper and aluminum theft

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/31738/aluminum_and_copper_theft_stealing.html

A representative in Colorado has introduced a bill about this very topic.

Very interesting blog I enjoyed reading it. Nothing like that happening in my area, SEACOAST NH/?ME &MA What a shame , what will they resort to next. Security Systems might be a help along with people in the house. I'm sure the thieves knew the house and realized it was vacant.

Patricia Aulson/REALTOR/Seacoast NH/ME & MA URL: www.patricia4realestate.com

Jim,

I have a foreclosure in my state also without copper. They also took most of the radiators! And the covers on the electrical boxes! Guess we should be checking EBAY.

FEB

2007

Here's another one that's hard to believe - In the Hemet area, there have been thefts of firehydrants (cost the city about $1500) that are stolen, melted down, and sold as scrap metal (value about $200!)

FEB

2007

There is a lot of redevelopment going on in the City of Camden, NJ which at one time and may still be the murder capital of the USA. Recently, an electrical subcontractor was working late in a construction trailer in an enclosed, high security area. Long story short, there were giant spools of copper wire. Burglary noises. An inquisitive contractor. A gunshot. Blood. The contractor was wounded, but is now recovering.

Tip to copper thieves: I know that T-Mobile installers of inter-city sub-stations abandon a great deal of wire as it is too heavy to save. Next time, just ask!

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