You Rock Lenn! I'm sure glad Bob asked for this...I'm bookmarking!

Lenn Harley - MY HERO!!!!  Way to tell it like it really is!  I hope that reporter Gary wrote about finds his way here to YOUR post - perhaps NOW he'll get a glimmer of what good professional agents do for their clients.

What an AWESOME post!!

Ann

This morning I went to a FSBO ( MLS only listing) to take more pictures... there were only 2 in the MLS - 1 exterior and 1 kitchen.  The home was very nice and worthy of many pictures.  The sellers have been too busy to do that.  It's their loss and my gain, as I have an interested buyer, and I hope nobody else notices this home that is priced for less than they paid for it.

Oh my gosh, Lenn!  This has to be one of the best posts I have ever read.  Soup to nuts, this is how it's done, ladies and gentlemen!

Wow...Fantastic post! Bob asked and you have delivered!

Lenn - I always admire you for the research you put into your posts and all the information and wisdom you convey - as well as links to even more information. So glad to have you leading Active Rain!

Lenn -- my colleague just went throught this.  After she gave the seller the NH mandatory dislcosure form stating don't tell me anything, I represent the buyer - she then put in writing that the seller needed to hire an attorney.  I think the buyer regretted going fsbo, but it was too late.  Everyone things this is sooo easy.  I think we have done a bad job educating the public about what we do and in particular, what we can do for them (what's it it for me (buyer/seller). 

I like your come back "in a real estate school".They are hard to wrote with, don't understand, do no negotiating, it is up to the sellers to negotiate, you do the work on both sides. Of course your fiduciary responsibility is to your buyers, so you can't and will not disclose anything. It is a mess, I hate them. We had a difficult one this year, at the end we asked them would you do this again? Yes they said we saved XXX amount of money. I was appalled, but to some it is all about the $

LENN- your experience speaks volumes- I agree that many professionals REALTORS feel that have to chat up a buyer.  They are in actuality distracting the buyer at the showing.  I stay way back and let the buyer discover the house on their own.  Many are not first time homebuyers and know a litchen when they see one.  They love the freedom and quiet time to blueprint the house mentality without the incessent chatter and white noise they have experienced before.  Different strokes for different folks-

FSBO's feel they have to SELL SELL SELL and haven't a clue in the ways buyer quietly assess the homes they are seeing.  That is where our experience has real value.  Great post!

Monika.  I believe that many of us have posted many articles that speak to the issue of why the agent is still critical to the financial health of the real estate market.  In fact, I'm planning on doing something original about that today or tomorrow.  I don't know what Bob's reading.  I know that the author of the post that was the subject of Gary Bolen post doesn't isn't interested in facts.  Fact is, we write to this matter daily. 

Ann.  I didn't scratch the surfact.  Many of us have written volumes about our contribution to the industry.  This guy simply came up with a hair-brained scheme and folks think we have to defend ourselves.  So I did.  It won't make any difference.  Folks who are not of our industry like to criticize but they don't know what they're talking about.  Further, they have open mouths and closed ears. 

Georgina.  That's my experience with FSBO sellers.  I clean their clock and they don't even know what happened.

Lisa.  Thanks.  That challenge had to be met.  We could all do the same.

Sandra.  I doubt that he saw it, but at least we're on the record.

Sharon.  Thanks.  It's my pleasure.  I'm a research addict.

Joan.  Not to worry.  There will always be the "do it yourself" persons.  They usually call the plumber after the basement is flooded.  The fact that we save the consumer money and angst is overlooked because folks think they can do it themselves.  Shucks.  Let them. 

Missy.  It IS all about the money they think they save when they don't have a competent representative.  Fact is, the worst, most costly real estate transactions in the country and where most litigation originates starts with one or both sides representing themselves.  I really don't care.  FSBO sellers have failed for years, not we have BUBBAs.  Let them play real estate. 

Allison.  Thanks.  That was an old post, but it needed to be recycled because Bob Stewart said we need to tell the media person that we do contribute to the real estate transaction.

Lenn,

You can generally tell the difference between an unseasoned agent and a true professional by the degree of self confidence they exude and how little self affirmation they require!!! Thanks,   Fran

Fran.  I'm not sure what you mean by your comment.  Does self confidence indicate professionalism or does it indicate less confidence?

If you mean that those of us who have experience need little self affirmation, I agree. 

Bob wants us to provide examples of where we have amply written about the value of our services and I gave him some examples.  There are many on ActiveRain. 

Lenn, you give us the words we need.  It's got to be hard to see a floundering FSBO seller and know that, no matter how much you want to help, you can't.  I have not been in this situation yet, but now I've got the words to use when I do encounter it.  I like that you are not justifying with your words, you are clarifying.  I know the value in my hard earned knowledge.  I know how hard I try to learn more and more every day on this job.  I know the high ethical standards I maintain.  You communicate our value so well.

Elaine.  Thanks.  The public, thanks in a large measure to the media, believes that, since the consumer is now "Internet Empowered", that agents have a deminishing value.  I reject that.  I see FSBO and "do it yourself" buyers who haven't the foggiest idea what they are doing, try to buy or sell a home and they succeed at little until they finally get some experienced help.

Good going Lenn! The Wall Street Journal had another one of their silly "we on Wall Street can tell you how to invest in real estate" articles yesterday.

Lenn, in addition to the items you detailed, I believe our continuous time and effort invested in vertical marketing and uncovering relevant local information and providing that information transparently, confirms to that marketplace our credibility and value.

Lenn,

Here in our area, we're seeing lots of the MLS service only listings.  Whenever you talk to the home owner they get all offended if you won't give them advice and help them!  Your comments are well appreciated!  Thank you.

Hmmm, this should prove to be an interesting discussion.  You are the master Lenn!  Brett Wilson's comment certainly should prove for some lively debate, discussion, & insight. 

Bob.  If I have one firm fast rule in real estate practice it is that I do not give agency level advice to anyone, anywhere, anytime without an agency agreement. 

Dual agency is what gets folks in front of a judge.

Craig.  Thank you for that.  You are right.  I'm not of the opinion that the public have so much information that they are spinning trying to figure out what it all means.

Ann.  Just what everyone needs.  I'll read it.  Thanks.

Great post, very good info for all of us. Thank you.

Wow....  Lenn.... I know for a fact that you know what you are doing.....  but not only did Brett beat me to the punchline per se, but he hit the nail on the head...

2 things.....  yes, many of you blogging here on AR and those that commented, seem to know what you are doing.  Secondly, the consumer wants to save money and many realtors have ruined it for the true professional. And even though you are trying to educate the consumer with this post, that they need realtors, that is not always the case.  I have known some people that sold their home as a FISBO and did very well.  Some realtors might not like this, but I have given guidance and help to some that have asked me. 

Isn't price a lot of what helps a home sell?  Isn't condition of property and cleanliness of the property right up there with price?  With those 3 things mentioned, many houses would sell. How many posts have we read that the agent didn't help prep the house, that it was disgusting?  Took 1 picture for the MLS as Craig Schiller pointed out. 

On another note.... and I will be writing about this later today or tomorrow... but realtors really getting involved in the financing aspect of things?  Ouch... Lenn, I know you know... but even at times, that doesn't always qualify. And I will bring this up in my post.

Overall, I don't want to be babbling in my comment. You make some good points, but Brett combats many of these even better. You are in the 2%... the general public doesn't know that. As a whole, as a realtor, this outline would not work in many cases.  And just as some realtors try and justify the loan officers rates, fees, and say that they are high, what can it be said for a realtors commission?    Just food for thought....

Lenn... you made this comment to :  Georgina.  That's my experience with FSBO sellers.  I clean their clock and they don't even know what happened.

Again, as pointed out, you are not the norm in real estate....  if we used the norm in real estate... and the consumer did some research on selling...  they could in many cases do the same. Especially if they have been through it before. Yes, a great realtor brings an added benefit.  What about the average realtor to below realtor? Just my .02.

Jason.  Mr. Wilson's comment bashing agents has been deleted.  That is not what this post was all about and if he wants to rant about agents, he can do it on his own blog.  He was a guest who got out of line and  I showed him the door. 

Richard.  Thanks for stopping buy and commenting. 

Brett... I don't know who you work with or what is poisoning your agents in Florida, but I completely disagree with everything you're saying. First, the public's perception is hardly correct. They can't be wrong? Look who they put in the white house!!!

Honestly, to generalize in the way that you are doing here is to oversimplify an entire profession, which suggests that you haven't given this any real thought beyond your desire to insult. And that leads me to wonder whether you are a Realtor - in which case you need to go back and review your ethics. Because we don't disparage one another. IT'S OUR COMMITMENT TO PROFESSIONALISM.

Lenn... This is how I explain my role to FSBO's and sellers who may need a bit of insight into what I do and why they need me: 

FINDING A BUYER IS JUST THE BEGINNING…

Ask yourself...
 
What am I required to provide for buyers? 
 
How do I know if I have a strong buyer? 
 
Can I accept more than one offer? 
 
What is the difference between personal property and a fixture? 
 
What is my recourse if buyers back out? 
 
What types of repairs are considered reasonable? 
 
What is an escrow company? 
 
What’s the difference between an appraisal and an inspection? 
 
What if my house appraises below the value of the offer? 
 
Who will handle all the phone calls and showings? 
 
Can I ensure safety and security of showings? 
 
Will buyers be comfortable dealing with me directly? 
 
A buyer’s agent will be looking out for their clients’ best interest in the transaction – 
Who will be looking out for mine? 
 
What kind of liabilities am I unaware of? 
 
Other than price negotiations, financing, amount of earnest money, 
repair issues, closing date, personal property, and possession…. 
 
There are also environmental issues, lead-based paint,
radon concerns, oil tank or siding and other disclosure requirements, legal issues in case of dispute,
enforcement provisions, contingencies…   
 
I’m dedicated to ensuring that my services offer efficient & valuable support to my
clients to alleviate the anxiety and minimize the liability of their real estate transactions.   
 
WHEN YOU DECIDE IT’S TIME TO LIST YOUR HOME, 
GIVE ME A CALL AT xxxxxxxx

It really opens their eyes.

I LOVE this post!!!
    

Lenn....  reading my comment... I hope it wasn't harsh....  you did bring up one great point. Experience. But ever some with experience don't do justice. It goes the same in mortgages....   yes, a realtor has a fiduciary responsibility... code of ethics. But I know many that don't follow this and I guess that was where I was coming from.   Again, you do bring up some great points though...

Jeff.  You are dealing with superficial tasks performed by agents in the daily course of doing their job.  Photos?  Unless people are buying homes on the Internet, photos are part of the marketing process.  As I've said many time, finding the right house to buy is the easy part.  That, along with recommending that the house be cleaned up, are all pre-contract.

It doesn't take a real estate license to know that more photos present a home on the Internet better than a few.  It doesn't take a real estate license to know that a clean house shows better than a cluttered or unclean one.

To answer your question about price selling a home??  Sure, price helps, but again, this is all pre-contract.  Home prices are determined by owners and agents may or may be able to influence pricing as much as they should.  Which is why so many of us have been questioning the economic sense of listing agent even taking overpriced listings.

Talking about specific duties of agents is easy.  Some people may or may not be able to perform some of these these tasks.  However, it is the sum total of all that we do from search to settlement and the representation of our individual buyers or sellers that makes us worth our money.

Some may disagree.  Fine. 

Lastly, the real estate commission is in no way related to our questioning loan fees.  Reviewing all documents involved in my buyer/client's home purchase part of my job.  When I see a lender that is  loan fees, points, that are much higher than the average in my market, I will advise my buyer/client that perhaps they would be well served to make application with another lender.  That IS my job and in no way related to what I charge for my services. 

Lenders often think that agents make too much money.  I don't know why they care.  Think what you like but when you consider that we are helping our buyer and seller/clients, depending on which side we're representing, preserve many Thousands of Dollars in cash assets, our fee has to be put in context with the value of the asset we're brokering.  Also, don't forget that our fees are contingency based.  Contingency based fees are always higher than fee for service structures because, if we don't get to settlement, we are paid nothing. 

It is the real estate brokerage/mls/title/lender structure that manages many Billions of Dollars of real estate transactions year after year in a very orderly basis.  In fact, if you think about it, the more control that the real estate brokerage system loses to the Internet Empowered buyer, the worse things get for the consumer. 

Look at our market today. It surely wasn't agents who brought this mess down on the American financial system.   

So, go right ahead and join the Wilson "Open Season on Agents".  

Jeff.  I look forward to your examination of the real estate agent's practices.  We all learn from looking at ourselves through the eyes of other industry pros.  We're not perfect.  Real estate brokerage, whether many like to admit it or not is a messy and complicated business.  That's one reason it is in the interests of the consumer to have representation.  If they don't want it, fine. 

Wilson will be deleted from my posts because I don't have to host invective on my blog.  He can post on his own blog. 

"EVEN A BROKEN CLOCK IS ACCURATE TWO TIMES A DAY"  Very well put.  There will always be some people that want to do it theirself, but there wouldn't be a profession in real estate if it wasn't needed. 

Matt.   Thanks.  The home owner is free to do what they wish with their own property.  If they want help, we're here. 

Lenn,

Excellent post as always. I can see where each of the 8 things you list in 'a few of the things we do' could be linked off to posts about each of those individual topics. Well written posts that discuss each of those eight things are really what I would want as a consumer. 'Write the contract and escrow'. I (the consumer) am not in the industry. I have no idea how to evaluate the value added to ME when you 'write the contract and escrow'. I don't even know what 'and escrow' means.

Bob.  Not a problem.  I'm all over it.  I will elaborate on each of these duties of a buyer's agent as soon as I can.  Right now, I'm busy previewing for a buyer coming in town this week end. 

Every once in a while, I like to sell a house.

Hi Lenn,

Awesome post!  I have had two interesting situations in my career, dealing with FSBO buyers when they chose to sell.

In the first case, the owner was selling a home with an adjacent lot - they did not have clear chain of title to the lot - oops!  Fortunately, they had a good listing agent who tracked people down and got it cleared up and closed.

In the second case, a person thought she bought a condo with two parking spaces, however, she really had purchased a condo with only one space.  She kept insisting she owned two. and the title people were wrong.  She finally got it when we talked to the developer who was still the legal owner of the spot in question.  (He was willing to sell it to her, and at a fair price.) 

People don't know what they don't know sometimes...

Lenn, Well done again. Maybe NARs new ad campaign just needs to say "Read Lenn Harley's Posts". That would certainly be beter than the crap they put out there.

I missed Brett Wilson's comment. Bummer!!! But to put it in perspective he is NOT a licensee. He is a producer of a radio show. Just someone else that doesn't understand what we do.

Lenn- I like that you speak your mind. I find your information useful. I had been working with buyers last year, the one home the fell in love with turned out to be a FSBO. I followed the process like any other listing. The seller had questions about the contract, and like you said I told them they needed to contact there agent and if they didn't have one they would have to get an attorney to look over the paperwork. It was my job to represent my clients and only them!

Lenn, you gave me a good laugh!

"I often have FSBO sellers telephone me...But, I don't give free advice to them.  If they ask where they can get some information about selling their home, I politely suggest that they start with real estate school." quote: Lynn Harley 

Go to school!!!

Thank you for such a well written post that's packed with "to the point" truth.

Go to school!!! I'll be laughing about this one for awhile...and will use it.

Later in the rain~Deb

Lenn, very well done.  We have seen fewer signs for Unrepresented Sellers in our neighborhoods.  However, if we don't do a better job in educating the general public through avenues such as posts like this, the false perception will continue to rise that agents are an expensive and unnecessary appendage to the process.  The biggest losers will be consumers who suffer huge losses from unintended mistakes.  Real estate can be an expensive amateur experience.

Hear, Hear Lenn.  You had a post a little while ago where the client wanted to do everything themselves and finally came to the conclusion that working with someone with experience may be the best and cheapest way to go.  aj

Alan. We know it.  We just have to get the message across.  We also have to counter the pundits.  Goodness knows there are a boatload of them.

Lola.  I don't believe that education the public is working.  They are succumbing to the pocketbook issues propounded by the media, folks who don't know what we do.  My services are available for a fee.  Folks who don't want to pay the fee can just scroll on by.  The public doesn't really want to know the value of representation.  They want us to tell them how we do what we do and how they can do what we do so they can save the fee.  That's not what I do.

Debra.  I don't plan to help the consumer help themselves.  I can help them by doing my job for which they pay a fee.  That's just the way it works. 

Jeanette.  ABSOLUTELY.  The risk of dual agency is very high when selling FSBOs.  We must be very careful.

Bryant.  I'm sure he'll post his invective somewhere.  He does tend to go over the line.  Unless he's walked in my shoes, he has no idea of the value of my services to my buyers.

Lenn, You were mentioned on their radio show today. B&B had very good things to say about you. Of course they said you were the exception to the rule:)

Lenn, nice piece. I work the FSBo market, as a matter of fact I was at one an hour ago. They are not working and the numbers support it. I am tired of these undercutting agents badmouthing our industry to try an get more clients. If they were experts they would know why their services are worth what they are being paid. But like I tell FSBO's and discount brokers. you get what you pay for. Not all agents can't sell the home for the same price and it's competitive so if you want to do it that way go ahead, i'll be here when it doesn't work or please let me help you buy to make up for the money you lost underselling the home to get it sold.

Excellent Lenn. Thanks for the mention, but this is a great example of the good stuff that comes out of an article like the nonsense that appeared on marketwatch.

yea! 

Lenn, you are such a true and brilliant advocate for our industry, thank you!

Lenn,

What an excellent post!!! You've really nailed it on the line here. We have very few FSBOs around here, mainly because of all of the reasons you've mentioned above.

Jo 

Jo-Anne.  Thanks.  We actually have a lot that are MLS listings.  We don't mind selling them at all.  Our agents are trained to sell them.  With so much inventory now, there are fewer and fewer FSBOs.

Diane.  Thanks.  We just keep trying.

Gary.  We've got a long way to go on this one.  I'm doing a blow by blow of selling a FSBO.

Ross.  I believe anyone buying or selling a property in the Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars needs the best representation they can get, and pay for.

Lenn,

I would just stay clear of it without any signed agreement altogether. Someone not in our industry probably doesn't understand exactly what we do...well done as usual.

Thanks Neal.  That doesn't appear to stop them from playing the critic. 

Lenn, you know I think you should be president of NAR ;-)

Thank you for always sharing your wisdom, and for standing up for the fact that we agents are paid for are knowledge and experience too!

Great post and resources.  I am a firm believer that there is a difference between what works in a rising market may not work in a declining market.  It is the difference between Active and Passive Marketing.  Passive marketing believe the only thing needed is access to showing the listing in the MLS and a sign in the ground.  It does not take into consideration of advice, negotiations, or that experience has anything to do with the sale..  So the new twist on this is it must be the compensation offered.  WRONG!  It is the calibre of the agent you have representing you.  Other factors needed:

• Experience
• Strategies
• Internet Marketing in Place
• Pricing, Condition, Terms, and Location

Great as usual Lenn!  I agree with Tamara above...you should be president of NAR...

I listed two FSBO's in the last two weeks...they were frustrated...hmmm...

Lenn,

You of all people should know better...of course there will always be critics. We have a ton of them right here in our backyard on AR so it doesn't surprise me that out in the world there will always be one or even two:)

The only way you could be president would be for them to agree to allow you to have their meetings through a podcast since your always in front of your PC:)

Neal.  LOL!!  My computer is my friend.  Yes, I know there are critics on AR.  But, they're not going to use my blog to mete out their miserable messages.

Karen.  Good luck.  I suspect that FSBOs are much more frustrated than agents who have listings that aren't selling.  Agents usually know why.  FSBOs really don't.

Jim.  Thanks.  That should be the start for a post.

Tamara.  Thanks.  Let's hope our messages help some of our agent partners out there.

Lenn -you are a master of making a point. Your "even a broken clock is accurate...." is priceless, as they say in the commercial. The issue IMO is that real estate agents "educating" consumers of our value often falls on deaf ears, because the consumer see it only as self-serving. I am not sure if anyone can protect another (adult age) person from engaging in risky behaviors. People do it all the time in all aspects of their lives, NY Governor, as a recent example.

What your posts so masterfully makes clear is that it's the agents who may need protection. Offering Agency advice to unrepresented Sellers or Buyers is not smart at best, and could be dangerous at worst. 

Lenn -you are a master of making a point. Your "even a broken clock is accurate...." is priceless, as they say in the commercial. The issue IMO is that real estate agents "educating" consumers of our value often falls on deaf ears, because the consumer see it only as self-serving. I am not sure if anyone can protect another (adult age) person from engaging in risky behaviors. People do it all the time in all aspects of their lives, NY Governor, as a recent example.

What your posts so masterfully makes clear is that it's the agents who may need protection. Offering Agency advice to unrepresented Sellers or Buyers is not smart at best, and could be dangerous at worst. 

 I love this post and you bring about so many good points!  Points that some of us Realtors have to get reaquainted with.  FSBO's without representation asking for advice....yeah..either you get represention or go to school but my interests are with my client.  Again I enjoyed reading this.

I always enjoy reading your blogs - you are so wise in your remarks and as a newbie, I learn a lot.  I know I should keep my mouth shut more often :)  - when I find that I cannot restrain myself, I go back over it and say some sort of disclaimer so that I won't be held accountable...  Keep the blogs coming!

Emily.  I'm glad you enjoy reading this blog.  It's fun to do. 

Jimmy.  I really do like selling FSBOs.  They respond well to a friendly agent who is going to help them sell their home.  The fact that I'm getting a very good deal for my buyers seems to escape them.

Faina.  I've often wondered what agent were thinking who offered to "help" FSBOs sell hoping to get the listing later.  Risky risky.

I bookmarked this post because I want to read all the linked posts you included. It is true. Working with a FSBO can be hard, you want to help but can't.

Lenn,

I just started reading your blogs recently, You are such a blessing. Your blogs are so to the point, informative and educational. Thank you so much for your great articles. THey are awesome!

Mary.  Thanks.  It's really fun.

Christy.  I may be alone here, but I have no interest in helping FSBOs.  They have exibited contempt for what we do.  I sell FSBOs because I can get good homes for my buyers.  But, I have no sympathy for the FSBO sellers. 

Great post.........thanks for the ideas.............

Duane Hosek in the Black Hills of South Dakota and Ellsworth AFB.

Lenn- I am late to your post. I read your comment on Gary's post. You spell it out well and the series you are doing to further explain will help the consumer to understand what it is we do. 

Lenn truer words were never spoken...then or now! That's why you rock! :-)  Imagine how bad the mortgage crisis would be if there had not been some of us professionals counseling buyers? Oy!

Way to go Lenn!  Great post and you laid it out perfectly.  Some people just have to learn the hard way.

Nice job Lenn! We have several Limited Service companies in our area and having to manage "both" sides of the transaction w/people(sellers) w/limited knowledge of real estate can become very challenging.  You laid out the counter arguement very well.  I think you've inspired a blog on my part.

Tracy.  Thanks.  This is an old post.  It could use a fresh approach.