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Solid Not Sturdy

By
Home Inspector with JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC HOI 394

DeckWords are unique in that they can cause understanding or create confusion. The English language is peppered with words that sound exactly alike, are spelled differently, with often entirely dissimilar meanings. Coarse and course, wait and weight, heel and heal. To add a little more spice, the meaning of words changes depending on use. To further complicate language, certain words are interpreted as basically having the same meaning, yet actually have different definitions.

Two words I find frequently used while inspecting are solid and sturdy. Now these two words would appear to mean about the same thing. In fact one definition of sturdy says in part, to be solidly made. Webster's gives the following definitions;

STURDY

  1. a :  firmly built or constituted :  STOUT

SOLID

  1. a :  being without an internal cavity  (solid rubber ball)

It is discernable that the words do in fact mean different things, but could in certain instances share a level of commonality.

Composite deck postWhen speaking of houses and their construction, sturdy would be the appropriate word to describe a well built home. All though solid is used interchangeably with sturdy, by definition a solid house would be one that is without rooms. A solid house would not provide shelter, but boy would it hold up to mother nature.

Typically a solid component is desirable when building. For example a solid piece of lumber would be the choice for building deck guardrail posts. That is until the invention of a solid plastic post.

Plastic or composite decking products, (composite means plastic and usually ground wood), are fairly new on the building scene, appearing sometime in the late 1980s. Like any material there are advantages and disadvantages. The biggest benefit stated by the manufacture's of composite decking is said to be less maintenance.

Deck post installation diagramDuring a recent inspection, I found a large multi-level deck at the rear of the house. The deck surfaces were of composite decking material. This included the entire guardrail system. Now typically, or I should say what I am accustomed to seeing are composite balusters and rails with wood posts with composite sleeves. What struck me as odd when viewing the deck framing from below was the absence of guardrail posts.

Since the guardrail posts are the anchor points of the guardrail system, it is critical the posts be adequately fastened to the deck structure. The diagram demonstrates a preferred method of attachment using bolts and anchors. The detail to note is the placement of the post relative to the deck framing. The post has been placed fully against the framing. This allows for a strong connection. Building industry standards require a guardrail system to withstand up to a 200 pound dead load. I do not posses some special tool to measure or otherwise determine if the guardrails meet the required standard, other than by simply pushing and pulling.

Inadequate deck post attachmentBecause my curiosity was piqued by the lack of visible anchoring of the posts, I looked above to see what might be holding them in place. Conveniently there were nice prefab trim pieces for the bottom of the posts that were not fixed in place. Sliding one up, what did my wondering eyes see? Four tiny deck screws and nothing else. The screws were set at angle into the 5/4 decking.

Performing the push pull test, yes I realize its not very technical, yet I believe it garners the desired information. You can see the "strength" of the guardrail in the short video.

 

While these guardrail posts are solid, the guardrail system is definitely not sturdy. 

 

 

Posted by

James Quarello
Connecticut Home Inspector
Former SNEC-ASHI President
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC

 ASHI Certified Inspector

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Peter Pfann @ eXp Realty Pfanntastic Properties in Victoria, Since 1986.
eXp Realty, Victoria BC www.pfanntastic.com - Victoria, BC
Talk To or Text Peter 250-213-9490

HI James,

Just a little sign will fix that right (don't lean on me)

Happy Holidays and a Pfanntastic 2014

Dec 21, 2013 07:36 AM
Kathy Streib
Cypress, TX
Home Stager/Redesign

Dec 21, 2013 11:01 AM
Laura Cerrano
Feng Shui Manhattan Long Island - Locust Valley, NY
Certified Feng Shui Expert, Speaker & Researcher
Is it just me or is sturdiness a more important component? It seems obvious in some ways. Love and light, Laura
Dec 21, 2013 11:39 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Peter, A sign! What a simple fix  Thanks, Happy Holidays to you too!

Kathy, Thanks for the Ah-ha.

Laura, I think you've got it.

Dec 21, 2013 09:00 PM
Gary L. Waters Broker Associate, Bucci Realty
Bucci Realty, Inc. - Melbourne, FL
Eighteen Years Experience in Brevard County

Wow...looks like the guard rail was actually just for looks - not function. Nice report!

Dec 21, 2013 09:38 PM
Dorie Dillard Austin TX
Coldwell Banker Realty ~ 512.750.6899 - Austin, TX
NW Austin ~ Canyon Creek and Spicewood/Balcones

Good morning James,

I came over from Kathy's post this mornig and so glad I did! I learned something..thanks for sharing!

Dec 21, 2013 09:44 PM
Joshua Frederick
Home Inspector for ASPEC Residential Services, LLC - Defiance, OH
Home Inspector in Defiance & all of Northwest Ohio

I have a good way of testing these. I keep football shoulder pads and helmet in my van to test that 200 lbs. of force scenario.  I first get down in a 3 pt. lineman stance (sometimes 4 pt. if it looks sturdier). I then have the client or Realtor say hike. Then, like a steroid-induced NFL lineman, I hit that rail with a rocket-propelled-bulldozer-like force. If the rail withstands my hit, it passes.  If not, it goes into the report as a safety issue.  Works everytime, you should try it :)

p.s.  Make sure you check with your health insurance provider first, as they seem to frown upon self-induced concussions. Your premiums might go up.

Dec 21, 2013 10:05 PM
Kevin J. May
Florida Supreme Realty - Hobe Sound, FL
Serving the Treasure & Paradise Coasts of Florida

James, the "flex" guard rail system you've exposed is one I would not wish to test from the 2nd story, especially while enjoying libations from my host's Christmas gathering.  Do I dare say that this was an excellent post about posts?   

Dec 21, 2013 11:23 PM
Aaron Hofmann
Atlanta Communities - Smyrna, GA
aka Mr. Smyrna Vinings

That's rather shoddy work. Might make the owner go postal to see how poorly built it appears to be.

Dec 22, 2013 12:58 AM
Jon Boyd
Home Buyer's Agent of Ann Arbor - Ann Arbor, MI
Ann Arbor Real Estate Buyers Agent

In our market the municiple permit process would likely have identified and required a correction to this issue. 

An agent working on the buyer's side would want to find out if the seller's disclosure showed work done without permits. If not, and the work was done during the seller's term of ownership, then we have two problems, unsafe work and misrepresentation.

So here we have two conditions that may justify further discussion with a home seller.

 

Dec 22, 2013 04:32 AM
Mike Warfel
Mike & Rita Warfel Real Estate LLC - Avoca, MI
Associate Broker

Very poor work by whoever built that hand rail. Good for you, Jim, for pointing out an important inspection issue, hopefully the deck builder did a better job of attaching the deck to the house.

Have a Merry Christmas and a new year full of promise.

Dec 23, 2013 01:06 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Gary, That's about all it is good for, aesthetics. 

Dorie, I'm glad yoy did too!

Joshua, 

Kevin, You have dared 

Aaron, I believe the owner is the person who built it.

Jon, Permits and inspections would have certainly exposed this issue. The problem here is that permits and inspections were almost certainly not done. You can't stop problems if you don't follow proper procedures. 

Mike, The house attachment was realively good, now the support beams, that's another blog 

Dec 23, 2013 09:34 PM
Trent Dalrymple (248) 854-0625
Home State Bank - Bloomfield Hills, MI
Allowing Mortgage Professionals to Lend Nationwide

You would think an inspection would have been performed by a building inspector to catch the lack of support.  I would hate to be the owner who had someone fall through the railings because of this.  Good post about the posts.

Dec 23, 2013 11:05 PM
Randy Shamburger
Movement Mortgage - Greenville, SC
FHA, VA, USDA and Conventional Mortgage Expert

Hey James, excellent information here. Thanks for sharing.

Have a Big day,

Randy

Dec 24, 2013 04:04 AM
John J. Woods
Big Dog Press, LLC - Winder, GA
Going where no man has gone before - wouldn't you?

 

   Is this a 'decorative' post?

 

Dec 24, 2013 05:50 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Trent, Which is why I don't believe the deck was permitted and certainly not inspected. 

Randy, thanks. Same to you.

John, I believe it is 

Dec 25, 2013 09:45 PM
Dagny Eason
Dagny's Real Estate - Wilton, CT
Fairfield County CT, CDPE Homes For Sale and Condo

Jim - Kind of reminds you of JD's house in Wilton, eh?    The deck was redone, but.......   we'll see.   Solid also means strong?

Dec 29, 2013 08:14 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Dagny, Yes it does. That one had more than a few concerns.

Jan 01, 2014 02:08 AM
Donald Hester
NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA
NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, Do not know how I missed this one. That is the floppy fish rail ; )

Jul 07, 2014 01:59 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Don, just like a fish out of water

Jul 08, 2014 09:40 PM