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"My Cook Top Is Cold, And So Am I When I Stand In Front Of It."

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

Arriving, immediately I heard, "My cook top is cold, and so am I when I stand in front of it."

When I get to a house for a one-year warranty inspection I ask what things are going on that they want me to investigate.  I usually get an earful!

She went on.  "Last week when it was really cold the metal all over the cook top actually had condensation on it!"

Air blew out of the exhaust vent, and no cold air was coming in, meaning that both of the flaps were functioning correctly.

So what gives?  Well, I knew immediately.  We have an insulation problem!  I have seen it before.

But how can you show a builder that there is an insulation problem without cutting into the wall?

With a thermal camera!  That would be a home inspector Best Practice!

This is a cinch.

For the purposes of this blog, I am using yellow and orange to demonstrate warmer temperatures and lavender, blue and purple to demonstrate cooler temperatures.

The orange framing on the top of the image is the kitchen exhaust hood.

The fan is center, and on top.

You are looking at the exterior wall of the house, above the cook top.

Apparently, in order to install the exhaust fan tubing to the outside, the installer removed a section of insulation between the drywall and the siding.  You can clearly see that the space between two studs is void of insulation. 

They removed the insulation from about two feet above the cook top all the way to the ceiling, installed the fan tubing, and never replaced the insulation.

WEIRD YOU SAY?  NO, THIS IS VERY, VERY COMMON.

And, with the thermal image, it is indisputable that the insulation is missing.  That purple spot is 42F.  The air temperature outside is 35F.

Can the builder argue with this homeowner that the wall is not cold?  That the cook top is not cold?  That cold cannot be felt near the cook top when it's cold outside?

Maybe.

Can the builder argue with a thermal image that buttresses the homeowner's complaint that all of this cold is happening?

NO.

How can this be fixed without removing the cabinet, the exhaust hood and a bunch of drywall?

The smart insulator will simply cut a 2" hole in near the ceiling, right in the middle of those studs void of insulation.  And blow some in!  The small hole is easy to repair.

What's the best insulation for this application?  Probably blown-in cellulose.  That is simply chewed-up newspaper, treated with boric acid (so bugs won't eat it), and when blown in it will completely fill that cavity, and provide terrific insulation.

Blown-in cellulose has an R-value of 3.5-3.7 per inch!  That would gain the desired R-13 inside that space.  Blowing fiberglass puffs into that space will provide about 2.2-2.5 per inch in R-value.  Not so good!

My recommendation:  when rooms or areas are hot or cold, there is a reason!  And most often the reason is due to insulation - and the lack thereof.  What's the best way to investigate that kind of an issue?  By calling an experienced home inspector with a thermal camera!  And remember, thermographers are all really cute.

 

 

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments (37)

Dena Smith
DSmith Realtors - Irving, TX

Great solution to a trickyproblem.

Jan 16, 2014 09:53 PM
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

It bears repeating that inspections should be mandatory for new and existing Real Estate of any nature...

Jan 16, 2014 09:58 PM
Raymond E. Camp
Ontario, NY

Good morning Jay,

Thank you for the remedy as well as the situation.

Make yourself a great day.

Jan 16, 2014 10:06 PM
Tom Arstingstall, General Contractor, Dry Rot, Water Damage Sacramento, El Dorado County - (916) 765-5366
Dry Rot and Water Damage www.tromlerconstruction.com Mobile - 916-765-5366 - Placerville, CA
General Contractor, Dry Rot and Water Damage

Likely done Jay. I really like the explanation of how the insulation could be installed today without tearing things apart.

Jan 16, 2014 10:13 PM
Fred Hernden, CMI
Superior Home Inspections - Greater Albuquerque Area - Albuquerque, NM
Albuquerque area Master Inspector

I see all the time where somebody has installed something, no matter what it is, and they disturb the insulation to do the job and never redistribute the insulation when they are finished. So, they are not finished... right? Wow, a revelation!

Jan 16, 2014 10:27 PM
Mike Cooper, Broker VA,WV
Cornerstone Business Group Inc - Winchester, VA
Your Neighborhood Real Estate Sales Pro

We see that kind of stuff all the time when we're wiring a house. It boils down to what's the easiest and fastest practice. Unfortunately, neither is always the best. 

Jan 16, 2014 10:44 PM
Rob Ernst
Certified Structure Inspector - Reno, NV
Reno, NV-775-410-4286 Inspector & Energy Auditor

Insulation is always displaced to install things from vent hoods to speakers. No one thinks about it till they are cold. Even though there is a solution having the work done is going to cost a pretty penny for something so easily avoided.

Jan 16, 2014 10:48 PM
Jill Saddler
Draper, UT
Draper Utah Real Estate Professional - 25 years+!

Great post! They were lucky to have you!! So - follow up blog? Did the builder come back and fix his mistake? Curious to know....

Jan 16, 2014 11:56 PM
Suzanne Otto
Six Twenty Designs - Lansdale, PA
Your Montgomery County PA home stager

I'm surprised that if they took insulation out of a space to install something, that they didn't put it back when they were finished. It was put there in the first place for a reason!

Jan 17, 2014 12:53 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I think it is Debbie.  But an important one.

Cheryl - I have had it 10 years and it cost $15K.  It has come down a bit since.  I have almost 50 thermal imaging blogs on AR.

It has Mike.  No, and I think because of the expense of the device and the training.

Thanks Dena.  Not so tricky a solution!

Everything is a choice Richie!  But I should be mandatory...     ;>)

Jan 17, 2014 11:02 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

You're welcome Raymond!  That is just my remedy.

Tom - I think that's the easiest way to handle it.

Fred - they usually have no intention of replacing it.  Maybe after lunch?

Quick and dirty Mike, and no time to finish properly!

Which is why we are doing a warranty inspection Rob!  The cutting and fitting of the vent tubing should be done pre-drywall!

Jan 17, 2014 11:07 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Jill - I have confidence the builder would repair this.  But the inspection was just yesterday!  I don't have a follow up yet!

You really aren't surprised Suzanne, are you?

Jan 17, 2014 11:08 AM
Rosie Crow
Serving Sugar Land, Richmond, Rosenberg, Missouri City - Sugar Land, TX
Exceeding Expectations. Delivering Results

Excellent post! Thermal cameras are an inspector's best friend!

Jan 17, 2014 03:43 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I call it the sharpest arrow in my quiver Rosie.

Jan 17, 2014 07:16 PM
Alex Popovic
602 CRE - Phoenix, AZ
Alex Popovic Developer, Real Estate Broker

Jay,

I've actually lived with this problem and been faced with it personally, not fun when its 120 degrees in beautiful phoenix and you can't figure out why your bedroom feels like a furnace.  Great post showing and explaining the nuances of this problem

Jan 17, 2014 09:27 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Alex - missing insulation is always a big deal, and not as uncommon as most people might hope!  You got it resolved?

Jan 18, 2014 07:59 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Found a very similar problem the other day with a less high tech instrument, my hand and a infrared thermometer. The old exhaust vent through the wall had not been sealed by the flipper, subsequently a nice cold draft was poring from a space in the cabinets onto the granite counter top. Granite retains temperature very well. Perhaps this spot was meant a beverage cooler....NOT!

Jan 18, 2014 08:52 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Jim - my brother and I found a hot spot on the floor of the bathroom where we would heat up our underwear in the morning!  It was obviously over a radiator pipe.  The floors were ceramic tiles, not granite, but retained the heat well!

That is an ingenious beverage cooler!

Jan 19, 2014 02:10 AM
Emcee M. Arah
Remax Excellence - Silver Spring, MD - Silver Spring, MD
Realtor w/Architectural Dimension, AHWD CRS B-Arch

This is very good information to know, Jay. Plus, having that thermal camera at your back makes it more than just "take my word for it" advice to sellers or investors.

~Emcee

Jan 22, 2014 11:30 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thanks Emcee.  My thermal camera is the sharpest arrow in my quiver.

Jan 22, 2014 12:10 PM