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Fact or Opinion

By
Home Inspector with JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC HOI 394

DeckI find as a home inspector people look to me to provide them with information on the condition of the house they are in the process of purchasing. By its very nature a home inspection is based on both facts and opinion. During a home inspection, and after when writing the report, the inspector will attempt to provide opinions, when a judgment is needed, that will, should be based on available facts.

The difference between fact and opinion can be said this way;

In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e. based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. What distinguishes fact from opinion is that facts are verifiable, i.e. can be objectively proven to have occurred.

I think it is safe to say, fact and opinion are unmistakably different, yet can in certain instances be confused and or convoluted.

One of the most common additions to many homes is a wooden deck. They are also more often than not, incorrectly constructed. It is extremely rare for me to find a deck that does not have at least one deficiency.

Some are real nightmares.

Joist Hanger

Modern deck building standards are not based on opinions so much as on known and tested data. Like so many changes in the construction of houses and buildings, the standards have evolved too often from catastrophic failures. Injuries and loss of life often the impetus.

A strong and safe deck is not a particularly complex structure. Typically there are two main structural points on the deck. The ledger board and the beam(s), posts and footing. This animation by Simpson Strong Tie depicts the continuous load path of a deck structure. The remainder of the deck is built upon this basic structure. The joists that the decking is eventually attached and the stairs and guard rails. In case one were to think, and based on my experience people do, that the remainder is not as important, that would be a wrong assumption.

Going back to the company that gave us the load path animation, Simpson Strong Tie, if one were to peruse the site further, you would find many other components for building a strong and safe deck. The most common being the joist hanger.

Joist hangers are used to securely attach the structural members to the deck structure. Looking at the diagram, one can see there are holes where the fasteners are to be driven. The smaller, circular image is meant to show the proper penetration  of the fasteners. Logically this should be interpreted to mean that not just any fastener will do, because it won't.

Deck screws used to fasten hangers and plate

On a recent inspection of a newer deck that also has been attached to and older deck, I found all the hangers and structural hardware to be fastened using screws. Deck screws. Yes it is a deck, but deck screws are meant for fastening decking to joists and balusters to guardrail members. Deck screws are not strong. They are not structurally rated. They are made from old beer cans and Volkswagens. No, not really, but you get the idea.

Further, the deck had been built using an unconventional framing method. Instead of attaching the joists perpendicular to a ledger board securely bolted to the house structure, this deck builder opted to use several beams attached to a board secured to the house structure. The method turns the typical structure 90 degrees and introduces a host of structural hurdles.

The newer deck has a total of three beams. One would, could have been used. The outer portion of each beam is supported by a post which has been secured to the beam with a plate with a lot of those deck screws. A specific piece of hardware is available for the purpose of fastening the post and beam, but it costs a lot more than that plate.Where's the footing?

That happens to be the best part of the post and beam structure. Two posts are set upon a concrete block wall and the third, I'm really not sure. My 12" screw driver is pushed into the ground up to the hilt next to that post. There can not be a footing below that post.

The other end of the beam is supported by a large joist hanger screwed to the ledger board. For added strength an L bracket was added. The bolts used in the bracket are of adequate size, but that bracket offers little added strength.

Here are the facts, joist hangers or any hardware can not be fastened using deck screws. First and most important, any fastener not specified by the manufacturer means the component will not perform as intended, i. e., it will be weaker structurally.

Simpson specifies nails or structural screws (made by Simpson) for their hangers. Each and every piece of hardware is engineered and tested. The deck structure is weaker than could be expected if the proper fasteners were used. Further it is also weak due to the other inadequate structural elements incorporated by the builder.

I was suspicious this deck had not been permitted and more importantly inspected by the city building official. Remarkably, it had been permitted...after it was built. Even more amazing the city inspector passed the structure.

My client, speaking with the building official due the concerns raised during the home inspection, showed the city inspector the inspection report. He said that in his opinion, the deck was structurally fine.

Fact or opinion, which would you trust?

 

Posted by

James Quarello
Connecticut Home Inspector
Former SNEC-ASHI President
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC

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Graziella Bruner
NCS Premier Real Estate - Detroit, MI
Associate Broker - Serving Wayne & Oakland County

I tell my clients - My Opinion doesn't count, what does the fact state and that's why it's always best to hire a professional!

Jan 27, 2014 07:25 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

This is an excellent discussion Jim.  Given the fact that there is no footer, and deck screws are used, that guy's "opinion" is toro.  That's a Spanish word that doesn't translate with the same forcefulness as in English, but you get it.

And that's a great animation.  Simpson gives a good CEU class if you have the opportunity to take it.

Jan 27, 2014 08:39 AM
Barbara Altieri
Better Homes and Gardens RE Shore and Country Properties - Shelton, CT
REALTOR-Fairfield County CT Homes/Condos For Sale

JIm -- I just went through a situation where we were up against opinion. I had the homeowner get another 'opinion' with the cold hard facts. The very detailed facts won out over the conjecture.  Great decking instruction, BTW.

Jan 27, 2014 10:11 AM
John Anello, Stamford Area Electrician
Safe and Sound Electric LLC - Greenwich, CT
Call Safe and Sound Electric at 203-536-0021

I am sure you find way too many decks that are only nailed to the house instead of bolted on.

Jan 27, 2014 11:47 AM
Rafi Footerman
Mid Jersey Inspections - Edison, NJ
Home Inspector, Mold Inspector, Radon and More!

It amazes me waht inspectors will pass despite facts to the contrary.  How often do you find paint overspray in the electric panels in condos?

Jan 27, 2014 11:49 AM
Bill Reddington
Re/max By The Sea - Destin, FL
Destin Florida Real Estate

Tough to get a homeowner to fix something if the permitting official says it is OK. I agree with you. Curious how this played out.

Jan 27, 2014 01:22 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

First to all, I think perhaps I should have pointed out in the post that the parameters for the hangers are NOT code related. They are manufactuer specs, which would trump code and should be known by the inspector performing the inspection. Not everything is in the code books. Those performing code inspections should know both.

Jan 27, 2014 10:16 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Clint, I agree. I'm fairly sure this guy was doing the same, covering his ass.

Debbie, For sure, a tricky situation, but facts are facts. Pursuing other avenues can provide the necessary help to over rule this guy. Or the buyer can walk or accept. 

Lenn, Agreed, they are not built to las as long as the house. They should however be built safely. 

Ed, I have had building inspectors reverse themselves after being confronted with the report. Sometimes they need more persuading.

Michael, And that's the way it should be. No different than a home inspector giving information and advice to a home buyer. 

Kat, Yep, it really is that simple.

Mike, Footing, what footing? 

Richie, For sure!

Lenn, Not built by the homeowner. This was "professionally" done.

Tom, You have my blessing on using that one 

Jan 27, 2014 10:26 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Jeff, That would seem to be the problem here. Thanks.

Vanessa, Sadly true.

John, What to do is explain why it is not right using facts. Same as I did.

Drick, Thanks. 

Jean & John, As do I. Really have come to dislike decks 

Charlie, I can see it also. They simply assumed that any screw is as good as another. Someone in the construction business should know different. Certainly the inspect should.

Jon, I can believe that! 

David, Thanks. Glad you found it easy to understand. My first priority when writing reports. 

Anna, Thanks. The inspectors out your way are lucky 

Jan 27, 2014 10:35 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Pamela, I think it's part human nature to not admit a mistake. 

Jeff, Doubt it.

Lee, Exactly. We provide information to those who are not so well versed in houses. 

Lynn, I see those blocks used on occasion. I call them out. That is not a footing!

Graziella, Nor does mine at the end of day. The clients opinion is always the only one that matters.

Jay, Thanks. I have attended several classes put on by Simpson. Always a great time.

Barbara, That can be frustrating. A bad opinion and having to put up a fight. Glad it worked out.

John, Yes I do.

Rafi, Sometimes.

Bill, Agreed. I have not heard. 

Jan 27, 2014 10:48 PM
Rob Ernst
Certified Structure Inspector - Reno, NV
Reno, NV-775-410-4286 Inspector & Energy Auditor

I agree that there is allot of poor deck construction going on. The deck needs to be able to support it's weight and the load put on it. It also needs to stand upto nature incuding wind uplift. It's unfortunate that this passed an inspection. It's really a disappointment that the future owners of this are not getting the benifit of an inspector that should have stopped this project from being built poorly. At least now they have your info and hopefully will act upon it.

Jan 27, 2014 10:58 PM
Peter Pfann @ eXp Realty Pfanntastic Properties in Victoria, Since 1986.
eXp Realty, Victoria BC www.pfanntastic.com - Victoria, BC
Talk To or Text Peter 250-213-9490

HI James,

Decks are funny aren't they, we see so many here, being build as a weekend project by an owner with a group of pizza and beer loving buddies, buying the right materials but just not putting it together the right way....

Jan 28, 2014 12:13 AM
Donald Hester
NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA
NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, Great post and such a good example of what we can run into that makes it even worse for the consumer. You pointed out the issues(facts) and the building official should of done his due diligence and made sure it was done correctly.

This is a good example of why we see so much variance in how the codes are applied.

Jan 28, 2014 03:52 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Rob, Yes, this deck should never have been allowed to be built in this manner.

Peter, That does seem to be the scenario with a lot of decks.

Don, For sure. Some towns are notoriously tough, while others....

Jan 28, 2014 09:16 PM
Dana Hollish Hill
Hollish Hill Group, JPAR Stellar Living - Bethesda, MD
REALTOR * Broker * Coach

So many subjective elements - it's hard for agents, buyers and sellers to determine the fact from opinion. And the way the system is set up, it is difficult for anyone to prevail when two "experts" have differing views.

Jan 29, 2014 10:00 AM
Robert Vegas Bob Swetz
Las Vegas, NV

Hello James and some great information and I agree with Clint at #35 ... he knows his business!

VB ;o)

Jan 29, 2014 11:17 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Dana, I can see your point, however in this instance it was a fact that the hangers and other hardware had been incorrectly installed. 

VB, Thanks.

Jan 29, 2014 09:01 PM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Screws in joist hanger and similar hardware is a red flag for me. Nails are the standard for a reason. They have shear strength that screws of the same length and size do not.

Unless you pay a lot for the 'structural screws'. This is usually only worthwhile for a big crew installing multiple decks or balconies.

Here firecode requires nails only in the joist pocket area of the joist hangers. So when floors burn through they will fail without collapsing the walls.

Feb 02, 2014 02:59 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Robert, That all makes sense. Like I said Simpson specifies the fasteners to be used. End of story and yet some seem to feel that a substitute is perfectly fine. 

Feb 07, 2014 08:51 PM
Anonymous
Brian Dunbar
The really sad part is... the Building Official is not following their own State Code. PER MANUFACTURERS INSTRUCTIONS... and yet they still get a pension without actually doing their job.. don't get me started.
Apr 08, 2014 09:14 PM
#44