Once again I find myself asking the question, do Realtor ethics really matter?  Presumably, one of the principal reasons for using a Realtor is the fact that we are bound by a "strict" code of ethics.  In many instances, however, the Realtor Code of Ethics seems to fall short of its stated goals.

Case in point, time on the market.  On my MLS (and many others, I presume), when a listing expires and is renewed, the listing Realtor has the option to either re-enter as a new listing, or to show the renewed listing as an extension of the original listing.  By making a property appear to be new to the market, the listing agent is of course trying to gain a sales advantage.  But how can this be considered to be anything other than a deceptive trade practice? 

Some argue that if a property is re-listed with a new broker, it should be considered a new listing.  Others argue that if the listing expired fifteen days ago, or thirty, or whatever, that is should be considered a new listing when it is re-listed.  But what about a property which is re-listed with the same broker either prior to or at the time the previous listing agreement expires?  How can this possibly be considered a new listing? 

I think the simple answer is that it cannot.  We must turn to the Realtor Code of Ethics to determine whether this practice is ethical.  Under Article I, Realtors are obligated to treat all parties honestly.  Article XII requires that Realtors shall be careful at all time to present a true picture in their advertising and representations to the public. In my opinion, by misrepresenting actual time on market, a Realtor violates both Articles I and XII of the Code of Ethics.  How can this possibly be justified, from an ethical standpoint?  Just because everyone else is doing it does not cut the mustard, folks.

Nowhere is the traditional Realtor perspective on this issue more evident than in Bob Hunt's recent column for Realty Times, Time on Market: Elusive and Controversial Concept.  Mr. Hunt is a director of the National Association of Realtors.  In his column, he describes a situation where "123 Elm Street" was entered into the MLS system as listing number "L200".  The listing expires after ninety days and is immediately re-listed with new listing number "L250".  Ten days after being re-listed, the MLS shows the property as having been on the market for only ten days, even though it has actually been for sale for the past 100 days.

Mr. Hunt points out that "Some feel that a process such as just described is misleading.  They believe that the new listing for 123 Elm Street should show that it has been for sale for the past 100 days.  And they have a point."  Absolutely they have a point, Mr. Hunt.  How could this not be considered misleading?

Betraying what I feel to be the traditional Realtor establishment's anti-consumer bias, Mr. Hunt goes on to state parenthetically, "(Though we also might want to ask just who is misled, and whether we care that they are misled)."

Who is misled?  Perhaps other Realtors who relied on the days on market information contained in the MLS system.  Should other Realtors be required to conduct a full-blown investigation to determine whether the listing broker is trying to pull a fast one on them?  Is this any way to do business?  Unwitting consumers, perhaps, who relied on the "bogus" information contained in the listing sheet given to them by the seller's agent, or perhaps even by their own agent, who failed to verify the actual time on market. 

Do we care that they are misled?  I certainly do.  Which brings me to my initial question.  Does the Realtor Code of Ethics really matter?  Coming from a Director of the National Association of Realtors, I find Mr. Hunt's commentary to be disturbing.  I thought treating all parties honestly was an obligation of all Realtors.  If not, then the Realtor Code of Ethics isn't worth the paper it is printed on. 

 
Post is included in group: Exclusive Buyer's Agents (EBAs)

37 Comments on Time on Market - Do Realtor Ethics Matter?

FEB
10
2007
20 Featured Posts
My MLS has reached a compromise... with a cumulative days on market under the days on market number..
4:15pm • #1
207,287 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I've heard this discussed before, I've thought about, and I really don't consider it a huge deal.  It's easy enough to check previous listing periods or to just ask the agent.    Should you have to report how many people have seen it or how many offers have been made?  I just don't see how time on the market affects the actual house itself.  If there is a code that specifies that this needs to be done, then I'll feel differently. 
4:37pm • #2
6 Featured Posts

Marcus Aurelius stated: "If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it."

That pretty much sums it up for me. I agree that this practice is misleading.  We should all hold the REALTOR Code of Ethics as a standard of practice.  The truth is that not everyone feels or acts from an ethical standpoint.  From an ethical standpoint, it is pretty obvious what the "right" thing to do is.  What is actually comes down to is the morality of the person.  Where does their own personal set of values draw the line?

In the mean time, since not everyone has the same moral code, I have figured out some work-arounds. 

 It is fairly simple to figure out how long a property has been on the market really (at least with my MLS).  We do have a cumulative days on market figure.  You can also do an address search and find out pretty much for the last 7 years when a property has been listed, who listed it, and for how long.  

4:54pm • #3

Of course ethics matter, it's just not something that (I feel) should be used in an effort to stand out.  There are, and will most likely always be, those of us who choose the wrong shortcuts.

Time on the market affects peoples perception of value, and in that, the actual value.  There's a case to be made for proper pricing from the start.  Homes can't be sold like cars, and their history seems to follow.  Whether the history is used by the buyer agent to attempt to negotiate a lower price, or by the listing agent to try and justify a higher price.

Perhaps the real ethics issue should be dealt with at the time the initial listing is taken.  If a prospective listing agent overprices the home out the gate just to get the listing, then the rest just seems to follow.  When the home is priced properly at the time of listing, these problems don't usually occur.

4:58pm • #4
287,686 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Some of our fellow Realtors euphemistically call this practice "refreshing" the listing.

I hope my local supermarket doesn't start "refreshing" their chicken breasts when they expire. ;-)

Cheating, or expired chicken breasts, by any other name pretty much stink the same to me.

YMMV

5:05pm • #5
399,689 Points 16 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
ARMLS (Phoenix area) lists Agent Days on Market and Cumulative Days on Market.  The only way to reset to zero is if the listing is off the market for 90 days or longer.
5:32pm • #6
351,548 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I have read many blogs where real estate agents complaint that the public doesn't want to pay the fees we think we are worth, have a low regard for real estate agents and don't see real estate agents as professionals.  The practice of not indicating the time on the market -- price changes etc. is misleading and the public is not stupid.  I think we should all strive to uphold the aspirational goals of the code of ethics -- even if one doesn't believe there is an actual violation of an article of the code.  I research the days on the market -- fortunately the mls system will give a print out of a property by street address -- so I can see what something has sold for in the past as well --

7:04pm • #7
224,750 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
It appears there is no definitive answer to this question and quite simply, the local MLS sets and enforces the rules.  Thanks for your perspective.  You make some valid arguments.
7:26pm • #8

There's a well known listing agent in my area who spells the street name differently on the second MLS entry which skirts this issue.  This agent touts their record for selling X number of homes.  Smart people know how many homes aren't sold.

7:45pm • #9
3 Featured Posts
I have to agree that this is an unethical practice. True, there are ways to find out the real number of days on the market but the point is that I shouldn't have to. This is a geat example of why the public has such a low opinion of the real estate profession. It always makes me wonder what else is not being disclosed when I run across a listing like this.
8:03pm • #10
173,509 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I have seen agents here put the listing into sold status and re-list it to get around the issue.  The board doesn't always fix it, even when it is faxed to them and does not punish or fine for the offense.  Agents then use it as a comp for a new listing and then don't appraise, hurting everybody in yet another deal.  Gives us here a really good reason for pulling tax and title on all of our comps as well.  They don't care that this causes more work for everybody else.

Our board now shows CDOM (combined days on market) below DOM.

8:12pm • #11
207,287 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I take it that a big DOM kind of stigmatizes the property.  In Georgia, we have a law about disclosure of stigmas.  You don't have to disclose something like a death in a home unless a buyer or agent specifically asks for that information.  Shouldn't the DOM stigma be treated in a similar manner?

If a seller tried to go FSBO before listing it, should those DOM during the FSBO period be disclosed?

9:52pm • #12
297,256 Points 12 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Like many have said previously, we also have cumulative days on market. It makes no distinction if it's the same listing agent or not.

Our mls has also adopted a fining system for repetitive violations of mls rules.  This applies to both non-Realtors and MLO's. Our MLS is SoCalMls, one of the largest around.  After a notice of warning goes out, the agent has 24 hours to correct. If not, first time fine is $500 second time $1,000.  This system has been in practice for some time and appears to be working. Sorry to say this is about the most effective method of cleaning up our data.

Last week we found a "creative" agent who listed his duplex twice, once in the (appropriate) catagory of residential income, and the other was listed as 1/2 the duplex in the residential catatory for half the price of the duplex.  Although in his comments he did state you had to buy both, for twice the price stated on the residential listing.  When one of my agents called him about the situation, he basically told her to pound sand. By now he should have received his notice of violation...

 

 

10:16pm • #13
8 Featured Posts

Kaye, Valerie, Tony & Laurie: Cumulative Days on Market sounds like a great idea!  I am going to suggest this at our next Ass'n Board meeting.

Valerie: What a great philosophy to live your life by.  Who says a Code of Ethics needs to be more complicated than that? 

Pete and Jewels: I agree that pricing and time on market are inextricably linked.

Jim: I think the real estate industry has spawned more euphemism than perhaps any other.

Joan: I agree that if Realtors are willing to put up with this crap, our reputation is deserved.

Rick: Unbelievably, this happens all the time in my MLS.  It is so easy to tweak an address, sometimes making even the most routine address search almost an impossibility.

Deb: I agree.

Laurie: This is truly diabolical.

Tim: I think your take is correct regarding a big DOM.  While you may not be required to disclose stigmas in Georgia, if you advertise "No Murders in this Home", you had better be correct.  That is an affirmative representation, just like a small DOM.  The problem is that if a small DOM is not truthful, it is an affirmative misrepresentation, as opposed to mere nondisclosure.  With respect to the FSBO issue, I think everyone generally associates DOM with formal Realtor listings.

 

10:24pm • #14
FEB
11
2007
2 Featured Posts

Stefan,

I have noticed that in one of the MLS systems we belong to many agents actually withdraw a listing after 90 days and then relist with a new number. They feel they can "brag" that they sell every listing within 3 months.

I brought this to the attention of one of the MLS board members back in November and his reaction was that "everyone does it", so it's no big deal.

We are able in this system to click on the H button (history) while viewing a listing and see every instance of the property being listed going back 4 or 5 years, so it's easy for a member to see, but that does not transfer over to the public version.

7:11am • #15

Fred,

The agent can get around the property history by "inadvertantly" spelling the name of the street different.  It's buyer beware and another reason why consumers need us to sort through this.

7:15am • #16

So what, exactly, does the tracking of DOM actually accomplish? Is it a tool that buyer's agents use to determine value for their clients? If a home is on the market for 365 days, does it mean that the home is over-priced? Absolutely. However, let us say for the sake of discussion that you take a client to a home because they saw pictures of the listing on line, and thought it looked nice. So, you take them out to the listing, and they fall in love with the home. Now, as a professional agent, you have a duty to your clients to protect their interests. When they say to you that they love the property and want to write an offer, they are relying on your expertise to help them make a good decision. Would you advise them on what price to offer simply based on DOM? Of course not. In fact, to determine a good price for your clients to offer, would you take into consideration the DOM at all? You shouldn't, as it has no relavance to the home's value. To come up with an equitable offer, you would simply pull the comparable sold properties, and advise them of this. You would then advise them that the price you have suggested is what the property will likely appraise for, and that unless they want to pay part in cash, they should offer within this range. Paying any more would be unwise. However, an unwise person could pay whatever they want for a property if they have cash, they just need to sign a disclaimer that you advised them against it (someting I did repeatedly in the hot market of 04-05).

Now, can DOM stats help us to determine market trends? I would submit that they can, but that those numbers would be spurious anyway, because of agent's manipulation of these numbers. There are much better methods to use to determine market trends, such as calculating absorbtion rates.

Bear with me as I put on my flame-retardant suit before giving my undoubtedly unpopular opinion.  I think that, in the best interest of my clients, I need to be ethical with them. That means sharing the absolute truth about what their property could sell for. I also need to condition them to the idea that even though the price may be "right," it may not be the price that someone is willing to pay. Now, if I take an expired listing, I am of the opinion that the 1st agent was either not exactly honest with the seller in order to get the listing (buying the listing), or that they were simply a weak agent, and caved to the seller's demands. Either way, the agent failed on the job. Now then, should we punish the seller by publishing either their, or their former agent's, ineptitude? I don't think so.  I am not advocating that anyone manipulate data, just that that particular piece of data is useless anyway.

2:24pm • #17
207,287 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Very well said Allen.

Do most MLS systems show the DOM on the listing sheets?  I could see where this could be considered unethical if a number like that is actually shown.  In my MLS there isn't a DOM shown until after the sale so maybe that's the point that I'm missing. 

3:39pm • #18
124,264 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog
A good agent will research the listing and get the true days on market.  This should also be done when doing a market analysis in order to get the true picture of days on market.
6:28pm • #19
121,298 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I think it's unethical. I didn't know they misspelled street names and stuff. That's just awful!
9:56pm • #20

Christy. In the strictest sense of the word, yes. It is unethical. So was fighting the British during the American Revolution. Even the Bible says so ;>) Let's just call it an act of civil disobedience then. . .

11:06pm • #21
FEB
12
2007
26 Featured Posts

> Who is misled?  Perhaps other Realtors who relied on the days on market information contained in the MLS system.  Should other Realtors be required to conduct a full-blown investigation to determine whether the listing broker is trying to pull a fast one on them?

Well, in a word, hell yes! That's your job. This is almost like asking whether we as agents should have to pour through the tax records when completing a CMA to make sure there are no non-MLS sales. In this business, not everything you need to know is wrapped in a neat little bow.

If days on market matters to your client, then get them the information. My concern as a listing agent isn't your buyer, it's my seller.

Allen has it right ... Days on Market don't matter         

10:53am • #22
287,686 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Tilt!

In the MLS you are making a unilateral offer of cooperation to other members of that MLS and advertising that listing for sale.

The Code of Ethics requires you to present a true picture in your advertising.

Gaming the system to show listings as "NEW" or with shorter days on the market than they actually have does not fit my definition of a "true picture"

Why not also add a few hundred square feet to the description to make it look bigger after all; "hell yes! That's your job"

Throw in another couple of bedrooms; any person with half a brain can count the actual number of bedrooms after all: "hell yes! That's your job".

One thing we all have a reasonable expectation of receiving is accurate MLS data; fudging the numbers if not playing fair.

And in my opinion it really doesn't matter why anyone wants an accurate days on the market count; they have their reasons and they also have a reasonable expectation of getting accurate information without having to research that property back to pioneer days.

YMMV

1:34pm • #23
26 Featured Posts

You're mixing my comment here with my post, Jim. Two different statements.

The question here was whether an agent should be required to fully investigate days on market if it's a material fact to their buyer. To that question my answer was yes (hell yes, even.) It's your job as the buyers' agent to find that information. Complaining because one click and a quick glance at a listing sheet may not provide the total picture is bogus. It's laziness.

You don't need to research back to Arizona statehood to determine the days on market. In fact, no matter what the trick, it shouldn't take more than 10 to 15 minutes to find the answer.

Ten to 15 minutes to protect your buyers' fiduciary interest? Doesn't seem like a lot to me. But heck, I'm one of those evil agents who actually takes listings from time to time. 

11:54pm • #24
MAR
18
2007
1 Featured Post

What if we REMOVE Days on Market from the MLS?

http://activerain.com/blogsview/55345/What-if-we-remove

The National Association of Realtors Code of Ethics provides that "Realtors shall be careful at all times to present a true picture in their advertising and representations to the public," though a spokesman for NAR, Lucien Salvant, Salvant said that MLSs are not considered advertising vehicles. "It's a local MLS issue on how they address (relisting)," he said. "There is no NAR requirement on that particular point." He said that though buyers may raise questions about how long a property has actually spent on the market, "What difference does it really make how long it is on the market if that's the property the buyer wants and the price is right?"

 Article 1

  • Standard of Practice 1-9

The obligation of Realtors® to preserve confidential information provided by their clients in the course of any agency relationship.

Isn't DOM confidential seller information?

Article 3

Realtors® shall cooperate with other brokers except when cooperation is not in the client's best interest. The obligation to cooperate does not include the obligation to share commissions, fees, or to otherwise compensate another broker

I believe in providing a history report for any property. DOM data shouldn't be and doesn't have to be one of the fields collected and distributed. This field serves no purpose or value for the seller, my client, our client, and our sellers.

8:55am • #25
1 Featured Post

This is exactly why the public holds realtors in such low esteem.

As a full time real estate auctioneer I have been the bearer of bad news to sellers about marketplace realities.

I turn down about 40 to 50 people wanting to sell every week because they cannot deal with reality.

Which brings me to my point.

Every time I speak with a realtor they ask me "...how can you tell sellers the truth?"

Why don't you just take the listing?

It is disturbing that every single practioner of a trade association with 1.3 million members I have had contact with has asked me the same question over the past 2-years.

More disturbing is:

Telling the truth to customers is a new and novel idea to 1.3 million realtors.

Its no wonder the public holds used car salesmen in higher esteem and as more trustworthy!

2:33pm • #26

WOW!  I'm impressed!  A little quick calculation reveals that (assuming you never sleep or take a break) you were able to spend 57.6 seconds conversing with each member of the NAR.  I'm sure that was more than enough time for you to carry on an in-depth conversation with each of them.

I knew you auctioneers talk fast, but that has to be some kind of record!!!

Pete Mesaros
2:52pm • #27
1 Featured Post

Pete:

Figures never lie but liars always figure.

Funny that the statement about telling the truth being a new and novel idea does not bother you.

Question: 

Do you know how to get a realtor of your front porch?

Answer:

Pay them for the pizza.

Don't quit your "day job" yet!

4:18pm • #28
8 Featured Posts

David: While I can agree that DOM data may serve no purpose or have any value to your seller clients, what about my buyer clients?  Are sellers really all that matter to you?  At least I find your proposal more straightforward and truthful than those who would manipulate this data and thereby present an untrue picture of the actual state of affairs to prospective purchasers. 

Billy: I believe that the truth will set you free.  But you already know that.  Hopefully others will learn.

Pete: Your mathematical skills are truly impressive. 

 

  

5:27pm • #29
MAY
09
2007
166,740 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Luckily our MLS keeps the listing history for agents to review. I understand your point that many agents DON'T EVEN BOTHER to go look at this... But we do.

I just tell my clients that the home was relisted and shows as a new listing, but it has actually been on the market for 280 days.

I believe there are certain criteria in our market for the home to show as a new listing with a new MLS #. One of them is time off the market. I don't know the number of days. Another way to get a new # is to list it with a new company. This can happen the very next day. I understand the argument from the new listing brokerages point of view: It is the first day on the market that they have tried to sell it.

In either case, I am glad that listing history shows and that we look at it.

Sometimes we find a listing that pops up and shows 98 days on the market only to find that it was under contract for 95 of those days... It just didn't meet the right criteria for a new listing number... Is that fair either???

Oh well, what are you going to do? You can't really please everyone, so I focus on trying to please my clients. Keep doing your research and due diligence. Later!

11:35pm • #30
JUN
13
2007

Do you good folk wonder why so many buyers and sellers are questioning the obscene real estate commissions? Wonder why the NY Times is piling on this issue? Wonder why the public trust for the RE profession rates at close to the same level as lawyers and congress? Just read the rationalizations for fraudulent marketing above for your answers.

 

 

ToutSweet
4:47pm • #31
There's no reason to really trust the statistics anymore on my MLS, it is now routine to see a listing come back on the day after expiration with a new MLS number and 0 DOM.  It does take an agent to research and tell the client about the house, which gives them all the more reason to hire us to represent them.  But I see the point, it doesn't make the industry look good.
4:52pm • #32
JAN
19
2008

I'm not a Realtor(t), but I've had many negative run-ins with Realtors(t) as a former Mortgage broker. I'd frequently have deals pulled from me, because Realtors(t) knew hoe to skirt around legal and ethical mortgage practices.

Classic example is when they'd pull the deal because I refused to have the client write to the credit bureaus to argue credit dings. While those dings would be investigated they be removed, usually for a 30-day cycle. If they were erroneously reported, by all means get them off the reports. The Realtors(t) wanted them all off weather erroneous or accurate just to save the client a few dollars.

Fiduciary duty, or ethical lapse in judgment?

I wrote about another story on my website - I'd like your comments on it!

http://velcroman98.googlepages.com/realtor

Kevin
12:14pm • #33
159,685 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Stefan,

Very good topic and by the number of comments I see many interpretations.

Here is where I come down on this topic.  Only the Realtor can see days on the market on a listing (correct me if I am wrong here fellow PA Agents).....I am always asked the question by my Buyer's when we see homes.....I am always able to tell them because I look before I go out.  To me a duty of the Buyer's Agent to be as informed about every property they show as possible.  In PA it is one additional click to find this our....and MY responsibility as  representative of the Buyer.

Thanks for stimulating my brain on business, I just spent two hours on FAFSA for my son and his future college enrollment.

12:30pm • #34
JAN
20
2008

I would think this to be a problem the MLS should address. For example, in my MLS you can list and relist without penalty, but you can also check the "history" of the property, meaning you can observe just how long the property has been on the market, how many times relisted, price changes, sale fails, company changes, etc. A record of activity is maintained by property address, not MLS number. I do not think the COE is at fault here.

12:28pm • #35
JAN
22
2008
8 Featured Posts

Kevin,

I will check out your story when I get a chance.

Dan & Jeff,

Thank you both for your comments.  One of the big ethical problems I see is with "gaming" the system.  I have seen a number of listings where the address will be entered slightly differently so as to try and throw off inquiring minds.  Should we have to launch a full-scale investigation just to try and figure out how many days a property has been on the market? 

I really believe that a free flow of information will lead to an efficient marketplace.  While I do think that DOM info is proprietary, and should be restricted to MLS members for their use in representing their clients, I cannot see how or why listing agents should be allowed to withhold or play games with DOM information on a particular property.

 

4:26pm • #36
JUN
17
2008
190,565 Points Outside Blog

I concur that ethics is at an all time low across the board in a lot of industries. Everything in life these days boils down to money. This is a sad state for our culture that money trumps values.

3:07pm • #37

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Stefan Scholl - Northern Michigan Real Estate

Petoskey, MI

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Buyer's Broker of Northern Michigan, LLC

Address: 3280 Woods Way, Suite 4, Petoskey, MI, 49770

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Northern Michigan Real Estate news, commentary and market information published by Stefan Scholl, real estate attorney, exclusive buyer agent and broker/owner of Buyer's Broker of Northern Michigan, LLC.


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