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Trying to sell retail listings in a wholesale market!!!

Hi folks, today I want to talk about selling properties in Poinciana FL. It's brutal!!! The problem I'm running up against is Mr. and Mrs. Average Seller are just not able to compete with the wholesale market i.e. banked owned properties and short sales.

As primarily a listing Broker, I have been banging my head against the wall for about a year now. The biggest issue is a lack of equity. Homeowners in Poinciana have lost about 40% in value in the last 15 months.

What this means is most Sellers are just not in a position to sell, unless they are able to bring money to the table or they apply for a short sale. But what if they don't qualify for a short sale? What if they are making payments but need to sell for health, financial or any other valid reasons that are not related to being in a pre-foreclosure situation?

They're screwed! Wanting to help these folks but not being able to is very frustrating. But....I have to try. So we price them as best as we can based on that Seller's particular situation. Sometimes it works.....and most of the time it doesn't. No amount of marketing will overcome pricing.

Unfortunately, I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel, for the near future, in Poinciana FL.

Here are some stats for Poinciana Fl. These stats only include residential properties in the Poinciana neighborhoods and were pulled from the Mid-Florida Regional Multiple Listing Service on 3-26-2008. It's deemed reliable but not guaranteed.

As of today, there are 1323 active listings. 415 of these are either bank owned or pre-foreclosure!! What's interesting is that the average list price for the distressed properties is $154,500 or $88 sq ft living area. For Mr. and Mrs. Average Seller the average list price is $188,804 or $111 per sq ft.

There are 89 pending listings. These are properties under contract that have not closed yet. I'm sure a bunch of these are short sales and may or may not close at all. The average list price for the pendings is $142,800 or $78 per sq ft. Remember the closed price on these pending listings will be lower.

There have been 61 sales since the beginning of the year. 33 of these(54%) were distressed properties and sold for an average price of $144,000 or $78 per sq ft. Average days on market was 109. There were 28 closings for Mr. and Mrs. Average Seller at an a average selling price of $149,000 or $88 per sq ft. Days on market was 143.

So, Mr. and Mrs. Average Seller are getting about $10 more per sq ft BUT it is taking 34 days longer to sell. Assuming of course they are in a position to price low enough to get it sold. Most are not.

Poinciana is averaging 20 closings a month out of a little over 1300 listings. What that means is 98.5% of the listings are NOT selling at all!! These are the facts.

The most active REO(bank owned property) specialist, REALTOR®, currently has 39 active residential listings in Poinciana. I have 16. He has closed on 3. I have only closed on 1!!! Even the wholesalers are struggling in Poinciana FL.

Folks, it just doesn't get much worse than this. My advice is, unless you absolutely have to sell....don't. Unless you are in a position to price lower than the wholesale listings your chances of succeeding are about 1.5%. Those are not good odds.

However, if you MUST sell, then give me call. I'd be happy to come over and assess your situation. Who knows? Maybe yours will be the next listing I sell. And maybe not. It is what it is.

Thank goodness for Buyers and Investors!!!

And that's the way it is in Poinciana FL. How are things in your part of the world?

*****Recent Poinciana Market Reports.

Bryant Tutas
Broker/Owner
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker
http://www.brokerbryant.com/
***The content of this blog is solely my opinion***

Posted by Bryant Tutas Broker/REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc on 03/26/2008 02:25 PM

Comments (62)

reos, foreclosures, short sale, market data, poinciana fl

Originally posted at: Selling Poinciana One Property at a Time.: Trying to sell retail listings in a wholesale market!!!

This post has been included in Florida Information Osceola County, FL Information Poinciana, FL Information

62 Comments on Trying to sell retail listings in a wholesale market!!!

MAR

2008

Reserved parking for TLW. She made me do it:)

I say....thank goodness for buyers! yup...changed hats a little...representing way more buyers than sellers the past year. Our neck of the woods definitely doesn't have the same thing going on...maybe a few short sales here and there...

Bryant, I hope consumers are lucky enough to see your grasp of the market conditions. Without a professional like you on their side, they may never sell their home. One more argument on the value of an agent.

EXCELLENT assessment of your area. Makes me think I should do the same thing for my neck of the woods. Basically, both our areas are not pretty for the next year or two. BUT, in my area, I'm seeing some signs of life. The luxury properties still sell fairly quickly. First-time Buyers can still (and will continue to get) good deals, including down payment assistance, either through individual counties/states or through AmeriDream or Nehemiah. Those Buyers just need to lay off the bank-owned/short sales and find a good Seller that has equity. Move-Up Buyers will take a beating on selling their current home but so will the Seller of the (nicer) home they are buying. It's still good for them, as long as they bought more than 5 or so years ago and they have equity.

Hang in there!

This is just sad. Doesn't anyone like living in Poinciana? Why no takers?

Mark, It's not so much that I can get their properties sold as I can stop them from getting "false hope". These folks need to know the facts. The fact is their property will probably NOT sell in this market unless they are in a position to price it very low. If they are told differently they start making plans with money thats not there. I've met with Sellers whose listing had expired and based on what they were told by their previous REALTOR(R) had gone out and placed a deposit on another property!!! Now they not only can't sell but they lose deposit money that they can't afford.

WooHoo, If it weren't for some of my investors who are buying I'd be very hungry right now!!! I'll probably get a good tan this summer:)

Lisa, Finding sellers with any equity in Poinciana is very very difficult right now. And unfortunately we don't have luxury homes. I just started expanding into Winter Haven to see if maybe that area is a little better.

Jennifer, Poinciana has always been a priced based market. Folks bought in Poinciana because it was very affordable. The job market is non-existent unless you work in one the local stores. Must of the folks work in Orlando which is 45 minutes away. Now they can buy closer in for the same money. So they do.

Bryant - it is indeed a BUYER'S MARKET out there right now!

Bryant,

I'm curious...what percentage of your market are primary residences...not 2nd homes or investment properties? Thanks, Fran

Bryant. My heart goes out to the home owners out there who have lost half or all of their equity.

34 extra days for an extra $10/ foot! I'll bet that's more than most of them make even those with a 1,000 sq. ft. 3 bedroom, bath and a half rancher! If they have 3,000 feet that's serious money.

$10 a foot extra, Bryant you're the man!

At the current rate of sales 20/ month and 1323 listing it will only take about five and a half years to sell.

There is always more then one way to look at this. By the time you sell the house you list today, the sellers will be old friends!

Bill

Bill, I have certainly had time to make some good friends!!! I've had some sellers for a long long time. We talk often so we are all like family at this point. That's one of the reasons it's so hard to deal with right now. This is one side of real estate that some folks folks don't have to deal with. Maybe I just need to switch over to REOs so emotions don't come into play at all. Retailing is a whole different ball game than wholesaling.

Fran, I'm not sure the percentages. Prior to 2004 most of the homes were just family homes. During 2005 and 2006 we were raped by the flippers. Now we have many properties just sitting empty, most are flips that flopped.

Lenn, It is sad. I have sellers in their 80s who have lost everything. What little money they had was used as a down payment and now it's gone. Taxes and insurance have gone so high they can't afford the payments any more and they can't sell because they have no equity. Everyone's screaming short sale at them when in reality that have not missed any payments on anything for 60 years!!! What can they do? So we just try and sell at a higher price. Unfortunately we won't get lucky. So we wait.

Barabra-Jo, I wish it were a buyer's market. With only 1.5% of inventory selling per month it's just at a standstill. Sellers are unable to go lower and buyers are not willing to go higher. So inventory sits. Inventory is up 15% in the last 30 days.

That is an interesting way to look at things!

In Ann Arbor we see the same thing. Banks, short sales, foreclosure's and Pfizer homes sell first.

Sellers that don't have money (equity) are able to absorb the loss, people that bought at 0 down and or refinanced can't do it. Those are the homes going to foreclosure or short sales, usually a job loss, transfer or health issue.

I worry too............I grieve everyday for my sellers.

My buyer agents are all happy, happy and I am dealing with sad sellers. YUK

It's a great time to be a buyer agent in NH! Our market has improved with buyers not only looking but also buying. Do you still only work listings?

Hi Dane. Thanks for stopping by. I'm a realist so have no choice but o see things the way they are.

Missy, Hey at least the BAs are happy!!! And doing business.

Monika, I have always had a little group of investors that I work with. lately though I have been working with some regular buyers as well. Not many but just enough to keep the cash flow flowing. I'm very selective though. I also have a BA that works for me and several other REALTORS(R) in the area that I refer buyers too. My intent was to hire a bout 10 agents this year but I keep changing my mind. I just don't like managing folks. It's not where my expertise lies. If I were smart I'd pick up some homes to manage but I just can't seem to get my head around that either. This is going to be an interesting year to say the least. I hope all is well with you and Jay.

BB ~ Yikes your stats are brutal! Your honesty on the activity with one closing of someone so experienced as you are further speaks to the struggle of many.

BTW, not sure if I mentioned this previously, but while flying the inflight magazine stressed that Poincianna was a good place for older boomers to buy now for retirement later.

Tough market, wow. I don't do much in Poinciana but I know the market is brutal there. So are you turning down these listings if they can't sell it at a wholesale price?

Eh..BB...Been listening to the show lately I see.

BUMMER! Those numbers suck! How are you doing with branching out of the Poinciana area?

I heard from a colleague in Las Vegas that of the resale properties that sold, 90% are foreclosures! Yikes - I thought Florida was bad.

MAR

2008

BB, Poinciana FL. isn't alone in this market. A lot of owners are face with very hard decisions. I am not saying this is a Gov't problem, but I do believe that it will take a cooperative effort to come up a solution. I do not have any real help I can give to owners who only have a short sale or a foreclosure option. I have not heard of one borrower who has been helped by HUD (there probably are some) but I still give out their hot line number. I have one client who I could not help with a refi get help from thier current lender who locked thier current rate for 2 more years to prevent foreclosure (this was not BofA).

By the way, getting professional signs might help your sales.
AJ

Your area sounds just like mine Bryant.

I recently closed on a listing that was extremely well maintained and NOT a short sale or foreclosure. Simply Mr. and Mrs. Seller who needed to sell. Thankfully, they were in the position of having the home free of any mortgage liens and also understood all of the ramifications on home values because of the foreclosed homes in the area.

Pricing WAS the key. If they had priced their home for what it would have been worth in any other market it would still be for sale.

There are tough markets all around the country but yours has to be right up near the top. Keep up the good fight ;)

Rob, Most of my sellers right now are past customers or referrals. They know what's going on in the market and know there couldn't be a worse time to sell. But together we made the decision to try. I have been turning down far more listings than I have been taking. If I listed everyone that called I'd probably have about 75 listings!!! They're a dime a dozen right now. I'm mostly sticking with folks that are in dire straights but aren't in a short sale situation and have properties that may be a little different. For example I have a 6/3 pool home in Poinciana which is very unusual. Even though they can't go low enough on price they are getting tons of activity because of the uniqueness of the property. I just use my best judgement and try to only list the ones where we have at least a good shot of getting it sold.

Brett, I did listen to the show. But won't be listening anymore. I don't appreciate folks that feel the need to attack to make a point. I have nothing to hide from anyone and never have. Barry posted about 30 or 40 points on BHB of which I agreed with all but one!!! Unfortunately he is not capable of having a discussion without taking things personal. That's his character flaw not mine. That's the last I have to say about any of it. Too much drama.

Lynda, That was probably an Avatar advertisement. Avatar is the developer of Poinciana and has an awesome active adult community called Solivita in Poinciana. It's a world class 55 and over community with prices starting the mid 100s!!! I'm actually closing on a foreclosure in there tomorrow at $130,00 for a 1500 sq ft never lived in water front home!!! Incredible price.

Lisa, I picked up a few listings in Dundee, which is the little town we just moved from. They seem to be getting a little more activity.....so we'll see.

Sharon, 90%!!!! That's incredible. I feel Poinciana will be there soon.

AJ, Good to see you. I have some sellers who called the hotline a few weeks ago and have their counseling seminar to attend tomorrow. They have been placed with NACA.

Kris, Free and clear property owners that understand the current market are golden right now. Those are the folks I'm fishing for.

Bill, I think you could be right. My market sucks!!!

Gosh, this is similar to being in a flak zone. You're actually in a real estate war. How long do you think it will take to get anything near a semblance of a normal market?

Bryant, it sounds like a really, really good time to buy something! I'm wondering if the property condition thing in any way accounts for the extra $10 per square foot that the regular homeowner is able to get. I'd also think the hassle factor would help them a bit. But you're right, don't sell now unless you must!

Brett, Like I said I have nothing to hide. This post is my monthly market update that will be sent to all of my sellers as usual. No biggie. I'm done with you.

I've had to tell people "if you don't have to sell, don't" or I've tried to talk them out of selling, particularly when the bought their current home somewhat recently and then the market started to trend down. Luckily, many folks bought many years ago and realized double digit appreciation for several years and are still in a good position to sell.

Previously Deleted By BB (which is odd becasue he says he has nothing to hide..hmmm)

c'mon BB...it wasn't Barry who attacked. It might work for the AR group here but he did not say anything close to an attack. The answer from many is that directed and focused conversation, discussion and questioning is an attack. That's really too bad.

As for discussion that's all it ever was and all that was desired. Without going back and forth it was you who indeed stonewalled and refused to provide anything substantive...now we both know why.

Now we see this post which was very shrewd to get out in front of things in an attempt to diffuse the information received. If you listened you know he could have said a lot about certain things and did not. I would think you would be quite comforted in that regard.

The guys said they were not going to go down that road as it was pointless. So don't worry, nothing more to come on the BB saga and no worry about the info. We'll just keep it to ourselves. Have a good day!

Brett, I deleted your comment because I'm tired of arguing with you about this. How about I also post the comment that Barry deleted from BHB? That one was a threat. And I have it. Everything I have ever written to you guys is on the internet. You can interpret it any way you want. You can talk bout my business all you want. I have no problem with that. When you attack my character I have a problem. But by all means if you have nothing better to do with your time....have at it. My character will stand against any attacks you can put out there. I stand behind everythig I have ever written.

As I've said many times I actually agree with most of the stuff the Barries are talking about. But I strongly disagree with their attempts to belittle people to get a reaction. But hey it's a free world and they certainly have the right to do what they want. Just not on my blog, anymore.

Barry deleted HIS post not someone else's. And in deleting the post he was doing so to protect YOU.

If you want to post it then feel free to. It was by no means a threat..it was a challenge for real estate agents who make sweeping statements to back it up. Is that a personal attack? I think you are missing the point here as many here sometimes do.

We speak to many..and I do mean MANY high producing, high profile real estate professionals. Many have written books and are producing sales in excess of 500-1700 sides per year.

Many have commissioned or been a part of national studies about real estate...so when we speak to these people and get such a drastically different view of things then what is talked about greatly on AR, and when they agree with what we are saying and then when we try to speak to others, you included as to what high producers do, or what the public wants...it's regarded as an attack?

You made certain statements. Fine, that's your opinion. We and others have a different opinion and can back it up with substantive fact. We ask you for the same and get "my clients never ask me", or "I get paid for what I do", and then it's found that it's not exactly so...you call that an attack on your character? They were your words!

Why is it considered an attack when the only thing that is discussed are your words and verifiable information that contradicts your words?

BB, C'mon now, let's be big boys here...you hit the delete button on somebody else's comments because you did not like what was said and then followed it up by saying you did not have anything to hide.

Does that not speak louder about character than anything else.

In my post I said they guys decided to let it go, for your sake. I think you would find comfort in that. If a personal attack was the intent or purpose, you would already know it by now..wouldn't you?

WOW! I remember a year ago people looked at investors and groaned. In this market they will be welcomed with open arms!

Gentlemen...

I respectfully request that the two of you stay away from each other.

It has become clear to me a stand off has been reached. These conversations all lead to a dead end.

I say the two of you agree to disagree and move on to bigger and better things.

By the sound of it you both have bigger and better fish to fry.

TLW...ROAR!

and to the lady i must defer.....why do you keep doing that to me....:)

you must have some kind of mind control thing working..either that or my mom raised me right to not speak ill of ladies...probably a little of both

Bryant, this is terrific information. Thank you.

Hey Caleb, Good to see you my friend. Hope this helped to shed light on real estate in Poinciana FL.

D. Bass, Investors with cash are golden right now.

TLW.....yes dear:)

Kelly, Unless they absolutely need to sell it's a perfect time to just sit back and enjoy their home.

Thank you Gentlemen.

TLW...ROAR!

MAR

2008

BB, your 80 year old clients are HEARTBREAKING. I wish that there were a way to contribute to them somehow- I'm in! I feel for all of your homeselling contingent, but to enter the twilight years with this kind of loss makes me sick.

TLW has spoken. I just love you guys! When I visit your neck of the woods, I am bringing the Dom.

BB, keep on keepin' on. DFW wasn't hit hard by the bust because it was very boring around here while the boom took place. We've been on fire for the last few weeks, though and my buyer agent and I are covered up in biz right now.

Like you, I prefer to be a listing agent but I have crossed over into the realm of the buyer lately. Gotta do what works and I consider it a personal mission to get rid of some of the inventory on the ground in DFW.

Perhaps your mission is the same?

I think it's important to point out that Brett Wilson has accused BB of deleting comments, when in fact Brett has deleted several of my comments from his own blog. I know this isn't a pleasant subject, but I felt uncomfortable allowing Brett's hypocrisy to go unnoticed.

BB pardon the intrusion...

John..they were not deleted. They were reported as spam.

Thanks John, How are you. I did indeed delete on of Brett's comments. But he reposted it above and I let it stand. I have received almost 19,000 comments on my blog and have deleted about 4 in total. I only deleted his comment here because it really had nothing to do with the post but was just an attempt to imply that I have something to hide. But of course I don't. I guess I'm supposed to be ashamed of my low production over the last 12 months. I guess that assumption is being based on MLS data which most folks know only shows part of the picture. I should have just left it to begin with but deleted in a moment of passion. Oh well....such is life.

BB, yes, I saw what he was doing. Sometimes a bully only learns by meeting a bigger bully.

BB, keep up the great work.

Bully??? How about ignoramus!! Lol!!

OK guys.....this post is about market conditions in Poinciana. Or is it? :)

Brett Wilson said:

> Bully??? How about ignoramus!! Lol!!

Very classy, Brett. You prove my point with every word you type.

Sorry, BB; I won't reply to any more of his goading.

Okay...

Before this goes south again...

Let's stick to the topic at hand...Which of course is market conditions.

TLW...ROAR!

TLW, I got a great haircut recently-shorter, highlighted- OOPS- what's this post about?

LOL Laurie...

As you can see there was a part of 'knock it off' that BB did not understand :)

Amanda...

We love you too. Looking forward to that Dom. I'll serve ya some gator bites to go with it. They taste like chicken. Cluck Cluck :)

TLW...ROAR!

We're gonna shoot stuff too, right?

MAR

2008

I too thought this was a post about market conditions...how come we can't read a post that stays within the subject matter especially a market post...it had nothing to do with a debate. I think and correct me if I'm wrong BB but aren't you reaching out to the consumer on this one? I would think it might be better just to disable comments if they aren't about the subject.

BB a great blog - everyone in our area Metro DC is crying about how bad the market is here...they certainly don't have anything to cry about. Hope it gets better soon :)

Neal, Fortunately for me when folks read these comments I come out looking just fine. I have actually had many consumers contact me because of the way I handle myself. I placed this post on my outside blog and emailed it to my data base and my current sellers. Of course over there is has no comments. As aggravating as it is I prefer to just let comments stand. My opinion is they are a reflection of the commenter not me. The consumer can get a peak at the crap we have to deal with on a daily basis. It increases my value.

Yvette, Thanks for stopping by. Foreclosures and short sales have ruined my market for years to come. Poinciana was an awesome little bedroom community until we were raped by Investors in 2005 and 2006. Now parts of it are a ghost town. It sucks!!

Bryant - I have received a few calls lately that make this a little more positive - people are getting to know that short sales and dealing with the bank takes time..... and so, a couple of people have called to say they are ready to buy - but not to show them any bank owned properties - or short sales - they want to be in sooner rather than later.... so maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Thesa, I'm seeing that in my area as well. Foreclosures not so much but short sales mainly. And because of this you have to price a short sale pretty low just to be able to get showings on it. I hope all is well with you.

The really pathetic part of this debacle is that it is a public and not "member's only" post. Sorry, but I agree, stick with the topic...email is for personal issues. Just my .02.

Great post BB. at least you say it the way it is! Kudo's for that!

BB, You said somethhing very telling about your market when you said that they can now afford to buy closer to Orlando. Maybe what Poinciana needs is its own raison d'etre. A bedroom community is only good if the inhabitants are willing to make the commute.

I think you could serve your clients better and serve yourself if you could partner with local developers to bring employment opportunities to Poinciana. You really need to fuel demand, not just keep lowering the price.

Bill Roberts

MAR

2008

Bryant- We need to talk. I may have a part of a solution for you. We are getting many short sales approved that on the surface look like they do not qualify. Most of the lenders are getting much more lenient about what they will approve. I may have a way for you to help these people.

I will say this: this is the mostly lively market report I've ever read. Most of the ones I see get no comment whatsoever!

ANYWAY - I feel for the sellers in this position. I am blessed to be in a rather stable market - though buyers are surprised that sellers aren't panting with anticipation at their low-ball offers.... had a guy call me one day on a $170,000 house and he said "Do you think the seller would take $50,000?" and I said "Yeah, as a down-payment!"

The market is what it is - the good, the bad, the stable. Our job is to provide accurate information and sound advice - and not eat each other up in the process.

Good words, BB - as always, a pleasure reading your blogs.

APR

2008

Gosh! I saw your comment about "no amount of marketing will overcome pricing" and it REALLY hit home!! Even though our market here in NC is not as bad as FL, we are experiencing huge amounts of inventory and less buyers. With over 622 listings in 2 sub areas and only 145 sales and 122 under contracts. I have been trying to convince my sellers to lower the price and all they want to do is push me to do more open houses and ask me for copies of my ads. Who's opinion will they take if they don't take mine?

OCT

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