This Community Guidelines is a living document. We will review all comments left on his post and will make necessary changes to our Community Guidelines as time goes on.

Jon, well stated. I'm glad you're back involved with the day-to-day. Thanks!

Thanks so much. Hopefully this will truly help guide the way!

Great guidelines Jon.  We'll make sure these guidelines are very visible to new members.

I like it.  I will think you are headed in the right direction with this.

I like it too!

Great guidelines........ thanks.

Jonathan...

I can't even begin to tell you how grateful I am that you took the time to do this.

I am so happy right now I think I may have a little tear coming down my cheek.

Just knowing that the Active Rain Network cares enough about us to offer up some guidelines makes me a little emotional. If you knew me better you would know that I don't get very emotional. I am somewhat emotionally challenged :) But you got me on this one. Yup. That was a little tear. It is a tear of relief. You have just made Active Rain a safer place for me to BE. 

I can't thank you enough for this. Okay, I should go now I'm getting all mushed out here. Sorry. I guess I'm still just a girl at heart :)

Great reminder how we should treat others. I am guilty sometimes thinking not so nice things but am smart enough not to write them. You reflect and calm down and realize that was the wrong approach.

I just realized I forgot an important rule: Do not republish any content initially revealed in a Member's Only post.

The language of that point doesn't seem quite right. Should I rephrase it? Anyways, that is the first change to the Community Guidelines.  I will do my best to chronicle any changes we make to the rules. 

Ditto on all the above.

Jon - thanks for the time it took to put these together.  They are great to have in place, and it's sad that they have been needed.  Hopefully, going forward, all will play nicely together and all that junk in the past will stay there.

Thanks,
Ann

I want to thank our member community for the consistent and steady pressure applied to the ActiveRain Team, to formalize a set of rules.  I especially wanted to give a "shout out" to TLW for her recent "Thou shall not" post on this topic.

You guys are all doing a wonderful job at keeping many different issues under control.  This is a huge community with many different personalities to manage fairly.  You should all be applauded for your professionalism that holPasds us all accountable to the Network's best interests. 

I had a pretty funny situation occur that relates to all this.  Well, I thought it was funny at first until the guy started threatening me. 

To make a really long story somewhat short, someone from AR solicited me by sending an email with his WHOLE contact list (roughly 500 names) in the cc field.  Some of you may have received it...

I asked nicely 3 times to be removed from his spam list, and on the 3rd time cc'd it out to everyone else on his list, again asking nicely to remove my email address.  He then proceeded to reply telling me how unprofessional I was to do such a thing, and that he didn't know I was even on his list(yeah, after the other 3 emails I sent him).  He used several profanities and threatened to "visit me".  Of course this was also sent out to everyone on his list because he did a "reply to all".

So, all of his contacts got to see just how professional he was...

He then threatened me in several emails, which was at first funny to me, until I found out the guy was actually located near me.  Then it wasn't so funny any more.  Who was this psycho?  I actually kept my 3 hole punch within reach just incase he came to "visit me".  I figured I would empty it out really quick and throw the little paper circles at him as I ran out of my office!

Anyway, I appreciate the policies you have created.  It makes AR a much more productive place.

-Jeff

:)

Oops! I'm not smiling about your situation Jeff Bernheisel...

I am smiling at Jonathan because he shouted at me :)

TLW...ROAR!

Good job on the trees, Jon.

What about the forest?

Respect the public that this community serves and derives its living from.

Remember that we're all subject to fair housing laws and, as real estate professionals, support both the letter and the spirit of those laws.

Great guidelines - to me they were a given, but it's nice to see them in paper.  TLW - would you like a handkerchief for those tears?

Ines...

I'm okay now but thanks for the offer :)

TLW...ROAR!

I have some questions, Jon.

If it's inappropriate to advertise your services in comments on another person's post, shouldn't there be a limitation on signatures on those comments? If your policy has any meaning at all, I believe it should.

Show me a principled line between 1) a comment that simply says: "You go, girl! I'm your Denver metro professional." and 2) another that says: "You go girl!" and is signed Joe Jones - your Denver metro professional, and 3) another that says "You go girl" and is signed the [name of religion omitted] Real Estate Network.

The first example presumably violates your policy. The second and third apparently don't.

All three are the same to my way of thinking, all equally iniappropriate, all the same wine in different bottles.

I don't believe you can make a compelling argument to the contrary.

Joe,

In response to your earlier post I added these two lines:

• Respect the public that this community serves and derives its living from.
• Do not violate any laws of your local jurisdiction. This includes all Fair Housing related laws.

Joe,

In response to your second question about advertising in the comments of another members post: I have no idea reconcile your proposed inconsistency. Do we need to include into the community guidelines a definition for advertising? Any ideas?

Jonathan...

As you are referring to links that are placed in comments this may be a better way to word it...

"Do Not advertise or Link Your Service"... etc...

I know that your point there is to stop members from re-routing the normal flow of a comment thread with links to their Blogs etc...

Yes?

TLW...ROAR!

This is a modern day Woodstock of sorts.....Except our A/R community has lasted alot longer...

I am not as concerned with people rerouting a comment thread as much as I am worried about members posting on various blogs, standard advertisements; "Call Betty Sue with Firestone Real Estate for all of your South Dakota real estate needs!"

Here's some definitions that may help you with verb-age:

Advertise:  

1. To make public announcement of, especially to proclaim the qualities or advantages of (a product or business) so as to increase sales. See Synonyms at announce

2. To make known; call attention to: advertised my intention to resign. 3. To warn or notify: "This event advertises me that there is such a fact as death" (Henry David Thoreau). v.intr. 1. To call the attention of the public to a product or business.

TLW, how about a simple:

No Littering

OR

Please take your waste with you

Joe - I think what Jon is referring to is actual ads and blatantly promotionaal info contained within the body of the comments, not necessarily our name tag, i.e. 

Obviously, you refer to the signature tags. What is your line of thinking as to why they're inappropriate in a social network amoung real estate professionals?

Rich, you need to break those links (Edit and Delete)

Thank you for laying these guidelines out, Jonathan. There DOES need to be a foundation for appropriate conduct, especially with as many members as AR now has, and will have.

Jon,

Thanks for adopting my first suggestion. I'd preferr to see a more elaborate statement re fair housing laws, since they're so central to this business. They don't stand on a pair with a sign ordinance or a parking sign. And, given the fact that HUD's policy is that it heavily weighs the existence and adequacy of a fair housing statement in deciding whether to take enforcement action, fair housing should preferably be highlighted from a bottom of the page link just like About and FAQ. I realize this sounds presumptuous, but I'm trying to look after everyone's interests here.

There's a simple way to handle my second issue, and a principled basis for it that's grounded in what blogging is all about.

People blog, not companies. Individual names should be required as signatures on comments.

When people introduce themselves to strangers, or remind acquaintances of their name, they're simply "Joe Jones" not Joe Jones CRB,CRS,GRI,CRA,XYZ, and not Joe Jones, your Denver metro professioanl.

The addition of anything to the person's name is advertising, and it's intrusive, unprofessional and unwarranted. The reader always has the option of clicking on Joe Jones' name when the reader has an interest in learning more. S/he shouldn't be forced to confront a commenter's marketing message in any fashion, even if it's simply a statement of credentials. S/he should be given the courtesy of being allowed to focus on what the participants in the conversation have to contribute to it, without distraction.

People are individuals, also - not teams, not husbands and wives. They have individual names and they should use those. I want to know whether Mary or Sam is commenting, not wonder which of Mary and Sam Jones I'm talking to this time.

People don't wear signs and wave them at you during a conversation. All logos and graphic signatures should be barred from comments.

Adopt and enforce the simple rules that people live by - in fact, insist on - when conducting conversations and your problem is solved. 

What's more, the enforcement of these simple rules will introduce everyone to the minimum expectations they'll meet when they begin to blog beyond AR. You'll be helping them and saving them a lot of embarrassment by teachinig them manners that prevail elsewhere.

I like it Mark...But we both know it needs to read better than that :)

Could you please think for me? I have been reading blog posts all day.

My poor brain is spent :)

P.S. Do you think the fact that our customers call me "The Lovely Wife" is relevant to this discussion?

TLW...ROAR!

Thank you for coming up with the guidelines. It's kind of sad that a place for professionals needs them. I thought they were common sense.  But I guess unless it is in black and white for some people...

Jon.  Great communities also have home owner associations..  We need to color with-in the lines.

Joe,

Great suggestion on the Fair Housing logo, not sure why we didn't think of that earlier.  It will be posted soon.  Both Matt and I will be in San Francisco tomorrow and Wednesday, so I am not if we will get it up before Friday, but it will be up soon.

I am not convinced on the signature line item. Agents love their signatures and accreditations. I follow your logic, but I am not convinced that enacting that hard and fast rule will be a benefit to the community. 

Jon,

The Fair Housing logo will increase my comfort level here. We're all busy, but just knowing it's on a checklist helps a lot.

I know agents also. I know that the good ones respect guidelines that make sense even when those guidelines don't embody their preferences.

Since this is a professional community that's open to the public, respect for the public ought to trump agents' wishes. If agents' wishes are to prevail, this community should be closed to the public. It can't serve both masters without hurting agents. I prefer not to see them hurt.

In the 20 years I've been doing real estate advertising in Chicago I've faced down a lot of misguided agent requests that they insisted were mandatory and backed down on when standards were set for them. Virtually all Chicago print real estate ads today contain exact addresses and hardly any did when I started - you can all guess how easy it was to change that practice. It changed, and is now second nature for most agents, and they see the benefit to consumers and to themselves.

For what it's worth, I did a scan of the top 52 (by AR points) accounts in Chicago, my home town. Only 6 of 52 accounts would be affected by my proposal. The rest already understand professional standards. I know a number of those people personally or through comments on my Web site. Not a single agent who comments on my site has ever used a professional designation or a tag line in their signature. I may have missed one, but I don't think so.

You'll interest more agents in participating here and contributing if they know they're in a professional environment rather than among people yammering inappropriately for attention to no valid purpose.

I'd respectfully suggest that you amend your prohibition against ads in comments to read as follows: ads in comments are prohibited unless the person advertising has a preference for doing so. Is that your idea of a principled policy? It's not mine.

I was wondering how you politely tell someone to stop posting their contact signature within another's blog, so thank you so much for this post.  I understand they are probably trying to get their website further up in the search engines, but I always thought it was very rude!

I appreciate the guidance.  I am farily new to AR and was really a bit confused about points, rules etc.  Thanks for the update. 

A Code of Ethics for ActiveRain!

Joe is making great points about the comments but I fear he may be going too far.  Let me explain, Joe.  I, for one, do appreciate your zeal to raise the professionalism here.  However, we may be going be losing something unique to AR..

Realtors like Active Rain's folksy, community atmosphere.  Why not just close off the community to the public and have all public posts posted to Localism?  I think it can solve both problems.  I think the programming won't be that difficult.

Localism posts (that are also posted here can have a big Localism logo (or signal) on them to caution AR participants about commenting.

I like the free form idea exchange that has developed here and respect that a consumer might not want to see the industry talk. 

Jonathan, Here is some wording that you are free to utilize in any way  you desire:

• Fair Housing: All real estate advertising is subject to Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended. Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents of legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability). The Portland Mercury will not knowingly accept any real estate advertisements which are in violation of any applicable law. Users are hereby informed that all dwellings advertised on The Portland Mercury Classifieds are available on an equal opportunity basis. To complain of discrimination call HUD toll-free at 1-800-669-9777. The toll-free number for the hearing impaired is 1-800-927-9275. 

(Direct from HUD. It is  L O N G but worth the "Heads Up" and may help to limit liability. It is free for anyone to use)

• Active Rain reserves the right (Yet has no obligation) to; edit your post(s), restrict your activity, modify, remove or delete your post(s), warn others of your actions and remove you from Active Rain with or without notice.

(just for you)

• Your post(s) must not infringe any third party's copyright.

(A given)

• You may not post any spam or unsolicited promotional information. (?)

(Why ask Why)

• You may not post anything that is: unlawful, harmful, damaging, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, obscene, threatening, slanderous, libelous or hateful.

(Covers most of it)

• Posts may not contain words, photos or suggest that anyone discriminate on the grounds of race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, age, marital status, sexual orientation, or references that are prohibited by law.

(See Hud Statement...this is a simpler version)

• You, and you alone,  are responsible and legally liable for anything you post on Active Rain. Think before you post.

(Silly but, might work for some)

• Your post(s) must not violate ANY State, Local or Federal; law, statute, ordinance or regulation. (You could add federal state or local fair housing regulations)

(Easy replacement for #2 Jonathan)

I hope some of this may help or , at least add food for thought.  Feel free to use any of it, some of it, most of it or none of it as you choose.

Glad to see something for all of us to finally munch on !

Thanks Jonathan!

Is this where I should add my links, signature, photo and brief mission statement?

Signature Start:

<Insert Photo Here>

<Insert Signature Here>

<Insert Tag Line Here>

<Insert Promotional Offer Here>

<Photo of Pet goes Here>

<Web Link Goes Here>

<E-mail Link Goes Here>

<Insert Phone Number Here>

<Insert Fax Number Here>

<MLS link goes Here>

<Affiliations Go Here>

<Certifications Are Added Here>

<Extra Space for Everything Else Goes Here>

<Disclaimer Goes Here>

Signature End.....Or, is it?

Brian,

Your suggestion may, in the long run and preferably even in the short run, be the only solution that makes sense. I've suggested several times that it's not possible to speak to the separate audiences of consumers and real estate professionals in the same voice and make sense to both and not lose credibility with consumers.

Professionals need to be free to talk among themselves if they're to encourage and support and train their newcomers. That's as true of doctors and lawyers as it is of real estate people.

The programming issues are never as simple as anyone outside the system thinks. It would be nice if it were as easy as you hope it is, but it's not likely that's the case.

My suspicion is that the folks at AR recognized the wisdom of what you're saying some time back, and that's partially what prompted Localaism.

Please clarify what is allowed in signatures. 

I would like to see only your first and last name.  Actually, I would like to see the person's photo with their first and last name.  It would mimic a real conversation.  I like to look at the person when they are talking to me.

Can you put city and state?

Can you put a tag line?

How many characters can one use?

I know let's turn this into a stuffy old professional real estate sight with no personality and a bunch of boring professionals doing the same old same old and presenting our fake personas to the public. Better yet let's not let the public in, let's send them all over to Localism where they can look at the sunset from 10 different camera angles.

Or we could all just display our unique personalities in a respectful way and let the consumer in to see us as we really are. Show them we are human just like them. We make mistakes we have faults. Some of us are good at what we do and some of us suck. We could do something different and let the consumer decide who to work with. Maybe by exposing ourselves with all our flaws it will force us to become better.

Or not:)

Holy Cow Bryant!!  It was like I was thinking while you were typing!!  Why don't we just turn this place into a rule-filled, boring and calculated forum.................NOT!

Good idea Bryant! Could be like Home Gain or one of those other "pay for something that we can get somewhere else for free" sort of SITES. You lovely wife may disagree but, us guys will manage to screw things up real good if we try real hard.

All we really need is a simple sign to post outside of the playground.....and someone to monitor us kiddies.

I vote for Your LW !

P.S.

When are you going to change your tag to TLW's Broker Husband?

Hubba! Bubba! aka Broker Bryant

I loved it ...  Or not :)

I want to be ME ... Not what other want me to be :)

TLW...ROAR        aka Billie Tutas Broker Bryant's "The Lovely Wife"... Co Owner Tutas Towne Realty Inc.  :)

Very nice Jonathan, I am glad that you took the time to do this.  It will make Dear Teresa's job so much easier.  She may add a bit to this if her clients will leave her alone lonf enough. :)  I want to add some Do's.

Joe, you said this: I've suggested several times that it's not possible to speak to the separate audiences of consumers and real estate professionals in the same voice and make sense to both and not lose credibility with consumers.

Well it may not be possible for you but I do this everyday and have NO issue with it. Maybe there are quite a few that can't but it is definitely possible. The consumer is very smart. They know sincerity when they see it. IMO they deserve no less than this. Do we really have that many secrets, that we need to hide? RE is not a top secret profession. If the consumer wants transparency then let's give it to them. For better or for worse. If someone loses their credibility, then so be it. It just means they were faking it to begin with. Exposure is good for the business. If some fall out, then I have no issue with taking up their slack. 

And the Academy Award goes to:

TLW's Broker Husband!

TLW, the tag is there but...where is the link? :)

Truly, well said Bryant! 

Bryant,

I think we're hijacking the topic, so I'll leave it at this comment and pick it up with you somewhere else if you want to pursue it.

I just looked at your blog, and I'm clueless as to who you're talking to. You have absolutely no focus except what's on your mind - i.e. no reason for much of an audience to want to come backc.

When I have a job I want to get done - i.e. learning about real estate or my community - I'm going places that have a focus. If I'm a gun-lover (long, long ago days), I want to subscribe to Guns & Ammo, not to the magazine that once contained a fascinating article about guns and hinted they might do it again.

I have no reason to dispute that you're good at talking to real estate people and to consumers. That's largely irrelevant to my point. A separate focus on each group would gain you a larger audience of real estate people and a larger audience of consumers.

Each audience has a very different job it wants to get done here and, while a small minority might pay attention, I think you're missing the people who look at you once and can't find enough of a reason to come back.

You're also benefiting, right now, from the first blush on the rose. As more people learn to focus and offer content that consumers value, they have a growing body of content and a big adantage on the people who didn't focus. At the end of their career, they've also built an asset that's salable - that content. You can't sell a blog whose only asset is you if you're not going along with it.

You're in the media business now. Look what's happened to general interest magazines and the big TV networkss over the last 20 years. Their business models are being eroded daily by niche publications and focused cable channels. General interest radio niched out long ago. And so on. For good or ill, this isn't simply the real estate business any more.

This is a good subject for a separate discussion, but probably shouldn't continue on this post.

Joe: I don't want to interfere but, you are right, you need to bring that somewhere else. ( I enjoy your posts and lurk around them often).

I for one am very happy to see this rules.  We are all professionals and some of the rules should just be standard practice for us. Today however, I understood why a AR member decided to stop posting.  Unfortunately, not everyone respects the rules posted.  I especially like:

I for one am very happy to see this rules.  We are all professionals and some of the rules should just be standard practice for us. Today however, I understood why a AR member decided to stop posting.  Unfortunately, not everyone respects the rules posted.  I especially like:

Joe, no need to pursue further.

Joanthan, I really do like the idea of having a code of ethics. As long as it focuses on behaviour and not style. Your guidelines thus far are very good. Thanks for participating so actively.

Jonathan:  thank you for making this a great place.  Has anyone made any decisions about multiple profiles that seem to want to dominate the front page and get each other points?  To me that seems to be gaming the system and ruins the experience for the consumer!

Thanks for the guide lines Jonathan. Will do our best to follow them.

Wow, what a community we have here.  I love it, the good, the bad, and the ugly.  :)  Not naming names!  The guidelines were a great idea and thanks for getting them in black and white.

And thanks again to Joe for the Fair Housing reminder.  I keep slipping and need a frequent slap of reality on that.  I talk way too much about families. 

Thanks, Jonathan, for sharing these details. It should help everyone.

And I look forward to hearing from Dear Teresa, if she can find the time. :)

Jeff

First Off I am still realing from the sting of the last accusations about the members that want to tell tales about behavior of another member. Jeff your claims may be real and founded, but no mention from the AR Gods. Was this not  MORE SERIOUS than what links someone puts on someones post?. As I read this we have a member that has a fear for his personal safety and all we hear on this post is crap. Joe I totally agree with You. Bryant same to you. As a members only post you should be free. Does it make any one else sick that one member accuses another member of something so Hannis with no visible proof ( Not to say it didn't happen Jeff we just have not been prevy to any proof) with out one comment from ANY ONE AT ACTIVE RAIN. This meaningless conversation should have been over as soon as Jeff made his claim. What is important? Better be someones safety. What are you guys going to do when someone goes postal on one of our members?

Jonathan - Rules from the new Prez. I like 'em. Got questions on two of them:

(1) Do not advertise yourself or your services in the comment section of another members blog post.

What's advertising? See above comments "another post by Fran White" and "another comment by TLW"  Is my little red house advertising? Is a link to a member's own website advertising?

(2) The point system is intended to recognize the top professionals in our industry. Do not try to game the system.

What do you mean by "game the system?" If "game" means posting stuff just for the heck of it (heck=points), you'll have a tough road ahead of you :-)

But thanks,anyway; we Germans like rules. Ha. 

I am wondering if there should be a prominent tab on the main page to access the Code.

Ron I like that idea!  A+

Thanks guys for addressing community concerns. You have all worked so hard for the benefit of all.

AR is a unique place, where we as indiviuals can express our ideas, thoughts, and creativity.

I love this community and even though a blog in other spots..........activerain is my favorite because of all the wonderful people here.

You just made it even better.

"Please do not attempt to correct or discipline another ActiveRain member directly!"...

The more I read the more I like that one :)

TLW...ROAR!

Thanks Allison,

My thought is: If it's important enough to have a code that we all subscribe to then it should be readily accessible and prominent enough for everyone to read without having to look for it.

pretty good stuff here..Thank you for taking the time to speak youur voice..Thanks ..

Jonathon, Thank You, for the post, the Code, and everything else you have been doing. You're a very busy man yet you take time to listen and you care. You will take Active Rain far!

Job well done.... You even silenced  The Loud Woman's ROAR...

I think as a team we need to all know the guidelines but I don't thing we should get sooooo serious on all of this.

Patricia Aulson/SEACOAST REALTOR/NH,ME,MA

URL:  www.patricia4realestate.com

Matt,great glad to see that you are on top of things so that we don't feel the need to step-in. Hopefully, you have the software issues in place now so that they can be substantiated when needed.

As I am traveling today, I don't have a lot of time to reply, and am attempting to leave this comment with my Blackberry from the airport.

Jeff's Post Safety: If anyone is ever concerned with their safety, call the police. I plan on calling Jeff later today to gauge his seriousness and see if he.would like to tell me further details so that I can take action.

Advertising in comments: The goal is to maintain personality on the site, while not supporting other members from 'poaching' others clients. I am still not sure about the details of this policy.

Blocking ActiveRain.com from the public: Ain't gonna happen

Posting this policy in the footer: We are working on drafting a Terms of Use Policy that we will include the Community Guidelines. The terms of use will be available in the footer and we will require all members to "accept" the policy.

Jonathan - Why are plagiarized posts allowed to remain?  I've flagged many and provided the link to the original post.  But, they're all still here.