Special offer

Procuring Cause - What if you show the house, but the buyer doesn't want to work with you? Comments Updated 7/1.

By
Real Estate Agent with Alliance Realtors

Hello All.  I am looking for some advice for a case that is going to mediation through our local board on Thursday.  I received a contact through my web site a few months back for someone who wanted to see homes in my town.  I emailed him listings and we scheduled an appointment to go out that weekend. After sending the buyer the listings, he chose eight homes that he wanted to see and chose one in particular as his favorite.  He made mention in two of his emails that he was excited about seeing that home in particular.  While we were on the road, I explained buyer agency to him and planned on asking him to sign a buyer's agency agreement when we got back to the office.  Before meeting and while in the car, I asked him if he was working with any other agents.  He said that he had been working with another agent two counties away, but that he was no longer working with her because he had decided to move to my area instead and this other agent did not service my area.  I asked him if he had signed anything with her and he said no.

Well, the house that we had emailed about turned out to be his favorite.  He asked me about comps and utility costs.  When I got back to my office, he didn't want to come in and didn't want to sign anything.  I emailed him the comps and called the listing agent for utility information which I then emailed to him.  The next morning I received an email from him thanking me for my help in getting his offer accepted.  Well, I was a bit shocked.  When I asked him why he wrote the offer through someone else, he said that he was not comfortable doing a RE/MAX to RE/MAX deal even though the house was listed with a different office.  Now I had thoroughly explained buyer agency to him in the car and this was definitely not a case of being a dual agent.  In fact, when I did show one of my office's listings to him, I did go over the information again with him about dual agency. 

Upon hearing that he had written the offer with the other agent, I phoned the 'selling agent' and asked her to turn the deal over to me because I was the procuring cause.  She refused and told me that if I interfered that she would get the buyer to cancel the contract, she would sell him another house and I'd be left with nothing.  I phoned the buyer and he said that if he had to write the offer through me that he would cancel the sale.  This made no sense as when the buyer and I parted the day of the showings, I was thinking 'what a nice guy he is, we really got along great, I could see inviting him over for a barbeque some time'.  I honestly do not think that I said or did anything to turn this buyer off.  But even if I did - what are your opinions regarding procuring cause and what if a buyer wants to write an offer through a different agent?  I need to know how to argue this point at the arbitration on Thursday.  While I think I did a great job, what are the rules/laws if a buyer does not want to work with you for any reason?  Should he be forced to write the offer with the procuring cause agent if he does not like/feel comfortable with/want to work with that agent?  When responding to my formal complaint, the agent got the buyer to write a terrible letter about me that is going to look bad to the mediator, but it is all lies.  I'm not sure how to handle that because it really makes my credibility look bad and like the buyer did not like me/trust me/ever want to see the whites of my eyes again, etc.  I could see if I was so bad and did not deserve the sale, but what are the rules/laws about being the procuring cause if the buyer so strongly doesn't want to do business with you?  What if they lie about how bad you are so that someone else can get the commission?  If they say that they thought I was unprofessional and that is why they didn't want to work with me, what possible defense can I have?

I have the buyer's initial contact page through my web site along with the emails specifically mentioning this property prior to the showing as well as the email with the comps and utility info sent after the showing.  The other agent didn't even show him the house until after his offer was accepted.  In addition to my previous question about what if a buyer doesn't want to work with the agent who is the procuring cause, my second question is what % referral fee should be considered?  I think I should be due 100% of the commission as she interrupted my chain of events and if she didn't get involved then I would have recieved 100%.  However, she did save me the time of going through attorney review, home inspection, etc.  She wants to give me a 20% referral fee which is definitely not enough.  My broker wants me to settle for 50%.  However, I truly feel that I am due the whole amount as she stole my sale.  Maybe I'd give her $500 for her efforts, however I don't feel that I should be forced to give her anything as she interfered with my sale and I would have had 100% if she didn't get involved.

Lastly, can she lose her license for this?  I'm debating whether or not to pursue this further and if I have justification to do so if the buyer did not want to work with me?  Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Katrina Madewell
Charles Rutenberg Rlty- More than 5,000 agents(813) 777-1196 - Tampa, FL
Tampa FL Homes for sale | Tampa Bay - (813) 777-1196
Also notes on Procuring cause -

Procuring Cause and Commission Disputes

You don't have to hop from agent to agent to end up causing commission disputes among real estate agents. In case you're thinking, "What difference does it make since the seller pays the commission," be aware that today's buyers typically sign buyer's broker agreements, making the buyer responsible for payment of the commission, even though that fee is paid from the seller's proceeds.

Commission disputes boil down to what is referred to in the industry as "procuring cause." The agent who ultimately caused the buyer to purchase the home and earned the commission is the procuring cause agent. That procuring cause agent might not be the agent who obtained the offer from the buyer, presented the offer and successfully negotiated the seller's acceptance of that offer.

Every state Realtor association has its own guidelines that establish procuring cause, none of which are fast and hard rules.

 *************************************************************************************

 The following was approved by the C.A.R. Board of Directors, in October of 2002, pending final approval by NAR.  In November 2002, NAR also approved the Procuring Cause Guidelines.  These Guidelines are intended to assist arbitration panelists in deciding which of multiple brokers is the procuring cause of a given transaction.  Use of the Guidelines by any particular local association is strictly voluntary

************************************************************************************* 

FROM REALTY TIMES IN 2004

Preventing Procuring Cause Cases by Blanche Evans

When it comes to procuring cause, silence isn't golden. Most procuring cause cases can be prevented by a simple question to the buyer - "Are you represented by a real estate professional?"

In a world where procuring cause can cause ill feelings between consumers and professionals, and trump contract law in some cases, the concept is often defined by local laws as who showed the buyer the property first.

But that doesn't mean a broker sitting an open house will be able to sell a buyer that home simply because the buyer's broker didn't accompany him.

"Since most buyers don't understand brokerage concepts," explains Florida real estate attorney Hank Sorenson, "they don't 'get it' that it's not good to see a home with one broker and then bring another broker to the same house for the second showing a month later. The listing broker doesn't say anything because they don't want to jeopardize a potential sale (and it's not the list-side commission at issue anyway) and the second sell-side broker doesn't want to know about the first sell-side broker for the same reason."

But if the listing broker wants to push the issue, then a procuring cause case forms like a boil.

"In every single procuring cause case I have ever been involved in," says Sorenson, "the second broker never asked the buyers if they were working with another broker, much less, if they had already seen the same house with another broker."

Suggests Sorenson, "Brokers should be required to ask all parties, upon their initial introduction, if they are currently operating in any fashion with another broker. If the answer is yes, the broker that asked the question should be under a duty to use diligence find out the scope of the previous representation (and call the other broker, if necessary). In addition, when a listing agent is aware of a potential procuring cause issue, they should be required to disclose all facts surrounding the transaction to both selling side brokers immediately."

Sorenson believes this would avoid many arbitrations and simultaneously raise the perception of the industry,

"Nothing less is expected of lawyers under our ethics rules," explains Sorenson. "In the legal profession (in Florida), we are prohibited from talking with a potential adverse party if we know they are represented by counsel. To do so is to risk our bar license. In my experience of procuring cause realtor arbitration cases (which are always a black eye on the industry and leave everyone hating each other), half of them could have been avoided if the "second" Realtor would have simply asked if the parties were currently represented by or operating with another broker."

Brokers on both ends are to blame.

"I have sometimes accused open house brokers of playing ostrich - 'let me put my head in the sand, and if I don't see another broker, then they must not exist,'" says Sorenson, "In fact, it may be that another broker drove those same buyers up in the driveway of the home just the night before, gave them comps, assisted them in getting initial financing qualification, but the buyers had to leave because of a family emergency before they could view the house. The buyers then show up at the house the next day for the open house after they discussed their finances the night before (but without their selling-side broker). If the open house agent simply asked the question - "Are you operating with another broker?," the buyers would say "Yes, in fact we came here last night and saw the outside of the house, but had to leave because of a family emergency." The listing agent could then call the selling agent and talk to the buyers (who, at that point, would presumably have no objection to the continued representation), and the whole procuring cause issue would have been avoided. But the question is never asked."

He adds, "In the foregoing circumstance, the open house agent would, of course, still be free to represent those buyers in looking at another house. However, the primary focus should be on servicing the client, which means removing all impediments (i.e. a procuring cause dispute) to a quick sale of the property in which they are interested."

Selling side brokers often have their heads in the sand, too.

"Contract law does not fit into the procuring cause concept," warns Sorenson, "unless there is an exclusive buyer's broker agreement executed by the buyers. Then, it's not even a procuring cause issue at all really, there's just a contract dispute to address."

So how can agents protect themselves from wandering clients?

"By being better agents," says Sorenson. "Why do people stay with one stockbroker or, in my case, go to the same fishing tackle store over and over? We get quality results (or products) that are predictable and the right information the first time, when we want it. Why should this profession be any different? The quality agents will elevate themselves over the others, and they will continue to get referrals from their clients. The others will not, and they will have to spend three times as much in marketing themselves to get the same volume of sales."

Published: February 11, 2004

HOPE THIS HAS HELPED YOU!!  Katrina

Mar 31, 2008 05:59 PM
April Hayden-Munson
Brookfield, WI
Brookfield Wisconsin Real Estate

Hi Lisa, Sorry to hear of this case.  When the shoe was on the other foot - for me anyway - I referred the buyer back to the original agent. He wasn't happy about it, but he had been fully informed in my case not to go to open houses without me, or to write in my name if he did.  Well, he did not heed my advice and the listing agent of the home he visited had procuring cause.

I never thought to write the offer and coach the buyer to say he'd cancel out on the house.  (Althougth I have seen that happen many times. )  I would bet my next cup of coffee that's what happened. What I see over and over again, is a buyer who feels it is their decision who they want to work with - no matter what.  They simply do not care whether or not we are paid.  I think it's time to start charging a fee before we ever leave our office with buyers. That may help stop this practice.

I would take this to arbitration. You have your facts and documentation.  That's all you need.  If this guy didn't want to do a RE/MAX to RE/MAX deal - there wasn't a thing you could do about it. Don't just let it go.  It may bother you for a long time. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL

 

Mar 31, 2008 09:24 PM
Don Rogers
Keller Williams Realty Chesterfield - O'Fallon, MO
Realtor, Broker, CDPE, GRI, OnullFallon MO & St Charles County MO homes

Lisa, the good part of mediation is --- it is setup to be a win-win.  In arbitration it is set up to be a win-lose situation.  You ask what I thought was a good percentage for you to ask for and in my opinion I would ask to reverse the problem to the other agent and offer to give them a referral fee.  That does not mean that hey will take it but, it is a starting point for conversation.  I would suggest that you go to the meeting with all of your documentation and let the mediator facilitate from there.  I hope this answers your question.  Good luck.

Don R.

Apr 01, 2008 12:55 AM
Lisa Friedman
Alliance Realtors - Bedminster, NJ
Central New Jersey Real Estate

Thank you all for your comments and for Katrina's re-print of the Realty Times article.  I have all of my documentation including something I found from Jim Lee's Active Rain post from October 2006 that lists the stipulations for procuring cause and it looks like I meet all of those stipulations with the exception of writing the contract and following it through until closing...

  • When and how was the original introduction to the property made?
  • Did that original introduction start an uninterrupted chain of events that led to the sale?
  • Did the first agent stay in contact with the buyers or cause any sort of estrangement between them?
  • If a second agent came into the picture were they aware of the first agent's involvement?
  • Was the second agents entry into the deal a product of the first agent abandoning the clients or causing them to go elsewhere?
  • Did the second agent initiate a separate series of events that were not dependant on the first agents efforts and that led to a successful transaction?
  • Based on the above, it looks like I am procuring cause.  The question is - how much is that worth when the buyer wants to write the contract with another agent?  It is indisputable that I am the procuring cause.

    Apr 01, 2008 11:57 AM
    Mark Organek
    And the United States of America - Mesa, AZ
    It's not a game, it's your life.

    Either way, I am happy to hear that you had so much of a paper trail.  I hope the aribitrator sees this as an open and shut case and does right by you.  Every agent should know to ask, as a professional courtesy, whether or not there is an existing relationship and what the extent of that relationship is.

    If I were the other agent, just to show class, I would complete the transaction and forward you the check, just for my slip-up.

    Apr 01, 2008 02:22 PM
    Lisa Friedman
    Alliance Realtors - Bedminster, NJ
    Central New Jersey Real Estate
    Yes, Mark, that would be very classy.  Not happening though, I'm sure of that.
    Apr 01, 2008 02:26 PM
    Eugene Jones
    Weichert Realtors - Somerville, NJ
    Hi Lisa. I believe right is right, and in this case you are right. It appears to me that the buyer used you to see the property, and already had it in his head that he was going to write the contract with someone else. The type of action should not be tolerated, our time is too valuable. Don't waste my time, and I won't waste yours. Good luck to you today. I'd like to know the outcome.
    Apr 02, 2008 06:03 PM
    Thesa Chambers
    West + Main - Bend, OR
    Principal Broker - Licensed in Oregon
    I feel your pain - but 20% of something is better than 100% of nothing - sometimes you have to remember your time is worth more than this - and putting your time to a more trustworthy buyer might be a better place to put it - I think you have valid points - but your fight may not be worth the outcome - mediation is better for you than arbitration.  Let us know how it turns out
    Apr 04, 2008 05:34 PM
    Lisa Friedman
    Alliance Realtors - Bedminster, NJ
    Central New Jersey Real Estate

    Well, we went to mediation on Thursday and the other side was so nasty that my broker and I decided to arbirtrate. They offered us 25% and then 35% referral fee at mediation.  If anything, it should have been the other way around. They were just so snooty and we feel that our case is so strong, that we are going to arbitrate. At the presentation of evidence, I had every 'i' dotted and every 't' crossed and the best they could say was that they knew the buyer longer. As it turns out, she only took the buyer out once in towns 40 minutes from here then put him on an auto email set up three months prior to the purchase and told the buyer to look on line, drive around on his own and then call her when he found something.  She even had that in writing. That is not servicing a buyer. They had no buyer agency agreement and she really wasn't servicing the client. She told him to just drive around on his own. In fact, it was brought out at the mediation that he even called her to ask to go out on the day in which we met and she said that she couldn't because she had a home inspection.  Well, how about before or after the inspection - inspections don't take all day. Point is, she wasn't even servicing her client which is why he contacted me - after she said that she would not meet with him on the day in question.  In my opinion, that is still irrelevant because I sold him on the area, showed him the house, gave him the comps, utility info, etc. which makes me procuring cause. The point is - the only reason they could come up with that they should get the commission was that they knew the buyer longer. Makes no sense to me.

    Arbitration will be an all or nothing - 100% or 0%. However, as snooty as they were and with their background of not really servicing the client, and taking over from where my work had pretty much already solidified the sale, I believe we will win.  Even so, its not about the money - it is about the principal.  And if we lose, so be it.  I don't think we will, but if we do, I don't really care about the money.

    People keep bringing up the time. The time doesn't really matter to me. I have all of my documentation so at this point the only real difference in time invested will be the three hours or so that we spend at the arbitration. Everything else is done already. It is worth three hours of my time to pursue this.  I just wish I had followed an ethics complaint at the time.  I was being nice by not doing that and now the time period has elapsed for that.

    Apr 05, 2008 02:19 AM
    David Stevens
    Royal LePage Coast Capital Realty, Victoria BC Canada - Victoria, BC
    Royal LePage Coast Capital Realty

    Hi Lisa - I'm not sure where to reply to your response to my blog ... but this is to thank you for contributing to my blog on Declutter! I had a chuckle at your comment about buying a larger house! Good Thinking!!

     

    David
    Victoria, BC

    Apr 06, 2008 12:24 PM
    Debbie Summers
    Charles Rutenberg Realty - New Smyrna Beach, FL
    It's very frustrating to spend that much time with a buyer and "do the job" only to have them go back to someone else.  It's not fair but settle for something and move on, you have to or you will go crazy.  You will never understand why people do the things they do.  Please keep us posted on the outcome.
    Apr 09, 2008 05:58 AM
    Laura Giannotta
    Keller Williams Realty - Atlantic Shore - Little Egg Harbor, NJ
    Your Realtor Down the Shore!
    When do you think this issue will be resolved?  Also, when an agreement is reached will it be used as a guide in future cases or is arbitration private?
    Apr 12, 2008 03:17 AM
    Lisa Friedman
    Alliance Realtors - Bedminster, NJ
    Central New Jersey Real Estate

    Hi Laura, The arbitration date is set for May 26th - I'll keep you posted as to the outcome. I believe that the arbitration is private although you bring up an interesting point. I wonder where the case studies come from - maybe from cases that actually go to court would be my guess.

    Like I said, I have every 'i' dotted and every 't' crossed and all of my notes down to the nanosecond so I don't see how I could lose, however you never know as the panel of 'jurors' can be fickle.  All I know is that I am 100% the procuring cause.  The question is - what if the buyer doesn't want to write the offer through the procuring cause agent. That is the big question.

    Apr 12, 2008 02:19 PM
    Laura Giannotta
    Keller Williams Realty - Atlantic Shore - Little Egg Harbor, NJ
    Your Realtor Down the Shore!

    Hi Lisa, what was the decision on this issue.  I think you were to have a decision this month!

    May 30, 2008 12:06 AM
    Anonymous
    Anonymous

    Hello Lisa,

    Im in a similar situation. How did your arbitration work out? Any recomendations?

    Thanks,

    Jun 19, 2008 05:55 AM
    #23
    Lisa Friedman
    Alliance Realtors - Bedminster, NJ
    Central New Jersey Real Estate

    I won the suit.  Got 100% of the commission.  Justice has been served.  I am so glad that I pursued it.

    Jul 01, 2008 03:18 AM
    Laura Giannotta
    Keller Williams Realty - Atlantic Shore - Little Egg Harbor, NJ
    Your Realtor Down the Shore!

    All right Lisa.  You stood up for what was right.  It's also a great reminder to keep that paper trail, you never know when you'll need it.  Congrats, and thanks for the update.   

    Jul 01, 2008 05:49 AM
    Ted Wright
    Coldwell Banker GWR - Marysville, WA

    Thanks Lisa,  after reading through your experience and the comments, it inspired me to pursue my own claim against an offender in my area.  We went to mediation and could not resolve the issue, so we are onto arbitration.  Friday is our 3rd time after the Buyers were subpoened and did not show up.  The buyers would rather stay out of it, because they know that there testimony will hurt the other Agent "that stole my clients"

    Thanks, Ted

    Marysville, WA 

    Sep 30, 2008 10:54 AM
    Anonymous
    Milton

     I sold home, agent claims buyer was hers( has proof emails) I have emails stating buyer is not working with any other agent, + when i listed home I listed it with a 5 year tax free offer = $100,000 saving for buyer, this offer was on listing for all,  the question is which is the procuring cause, Agent showing home that sat on market for 1 year or the new tax free offer i created to make the house more affordable? I lost the case, but was I wrong,  it was a totally different product on the market under my listing, the house sat on the market for 1 yr thats proof that the home was not going to sell under the old listing agent,

    Nov 13, 2009 09:51 AM
    #27
    Anonymous
    Barbara

    I am pursuing an arbitration right now. I have a friend (28 years of a friend) who was actually my first sale in real estate 10 years ago. She has been wanting a bigger home since she bought her first one and for the last 10 years has gone to open houses and introduced herself as my client. I have received numerous calls from agents in our town that have stated she visited their open houses and was very interested in buying. When I called her to follow up, she stated she is just dreaming. However, over the years, I have been showing her a multitude of homes, to no avail. She began seriously looking around July of this year when she decided that the remodel she was pursuing was going to cost too much money. She called me and we began looking at homes, more seriously this time. She actually spoke with another agent in my office and told him that he should not even consider selling her a home because I was her agent and if she bought anything, she would use me. I showed her a home in which she was very interested. I explained to her about the taxes (prop.13) and how much her payments would be (approximately) including taxes and insurance. I told her the street was rather busy and may be an issue with resale. i also explained to her the next logical step in the process would be to obtain a pre-approval letter to see if she even qualified. We continued to look at other properties over the ensuing weeks and each time, she became more and more anxious over whether or not she could afford the payments. For several weeks I continued to show her property and she kept on returning to one in particular in which she was interested. She called me one day to show her a few more homes and I asked her whether she had received the pre-approval letter yet, because the homes at which we were looking were bank-owned and required one with all offers. I told her that she should get the pre-approval before she continued looking in order that she know exactly where she stood as far as her price range and to avoid any further anxiety. She began ignoring me and after at least 8 unsuccessful attempts to contact her - several calls to state the price of the home she wanted had been dropped. I got a sneaky suspicion that she had bought the home when I saw it had gone into escrow. Lo and behold, on Oct. 31 it closed escrow with my friend as the buyer. I have contacted the other agent who basically told me that she spoke with my friend who told her she wanted to buy a home. She said my friend had mentioned we were friends but the other agent told her if we were such good friends, I would understand. 28 years of a friendship and 10 years of looking and looking at properties, in my opinion, at least deserved a phone call from the other agent inquiring as to the extent of our relationship. I have written a letter to the other agent offering a 50/50 split but she states she did nothing wrong.

    I feel I have a good case for procuring cause and am going to pursue the arbitration process. Does anyone have any suggestions or comments that can help with my case? I have phone records, both incoming and outgoing (and these only reflect on my cell phone; there were numerous others on unrecorded phones - home and office), along with my key pad records indicating when I showed her the home. I also have several letters from other agents stating she referred to me as her agent when attending open houses. Although I have no signed buyer/broker agreement, I didn't feel I needed one in this case - 28 years is a very long friendship - and the fact that she had used me many many times to show her property.

    Dec 13, 2009 11:38 AM
    #28