Wow!  You mean the agents who responded are actually in violation of state lae and COE?  I am sure that happens all the time there and the "self regulation" of the industry is doing nothing.  Where are the brokers?  Where are the state regulators?  There are fines to be had!  I guess stae law and COE do not apply to the internet.  Thanks for a great post.

I get them to talk FIRST.  Then I listen.  I usually don't have to say much.

Do you think they are violating COE and laws Dan? 

If you are at a neighborhood party someone asks you for tips on getting their home sold and you respond conversationally... you say "I think...."  (you don't whip out a business card, a personal brochure, a listing agreement ) but  just say "I believe you should....." are you violating COE?  Laws?  

If the question is getting to the code re:  solicitation of another broker's listings ala going behind the sign, it would appear that it is the seller/owner who is soliciting advice and none of the rules apply to the consumer.  I suspect that the owner has, indeed, discussed this idea with his agent but didn't like the answer. 

Since the Trulia answers do identify the agent/members who respond, it is not wise to give detailed advice to a represented consumer.  I hope that I have done no more than answer questions in general and not to clearly represented consumers in my market area.  Can't remember, sometimes you can get caught up in the moment. 

That said, even if the consumer were in my market area, it has been the consumer who asked the question.  The rules of soliciting another broker's listing don't preclude tolking with a represented seller if they call you.  In fact, you can take a listing with a listed seller if the date for the listings is after the present listing contract ends.

Thanks for the comments.  I am interested to see what members  of ActiveRain think is an appropriate response.  The seller is obviously asking for help, any agent who responds isn't necessarily soliciting the sellers business... maybe on questions like this the people who respond from outside the area are on firm ground (unless they answer questions that would require knowledge of local real estate laws) Local people who respond are not necessarily interfering in an agency relationship.  Or they could be depending on their response.  It might look very different to the listing agent reading it than it could to the seller.

Trulia Voices, AR's Question is different than a phone call or a conversation about real estate at a social event though... it is on the internet for all to see.  One person's interpretation of a response could be different than anothers. 

Maureen,

I'm sure I have done it, but I avoid talking to consumers who are clearly represented.

When they say, "I have an agent,"  I prefer to move on rather than to engage.

The shame of it is, on internet forums, they get such incredibly bad advice from know-it-all lay-people and from agents who are out of their area, that it is tempting to speak up.  I may debate "fact" tangentially with those advisors, but try not to say anything other than, "Talk to your agent," directly to the consumer.

Maureen, I do answer questions but only in MI as I get an alert email on them. Not in outside area's. I think I say talk to your agent, one question asked that has a long history, it was about using flyer boxes, his agent said no. I gave my opinion which was in the majority of them saying NO too. 

Sometimes you can't tell if they are represented, unless they say so.  

Mike said "The shame of it is, on the internet forums"  I probably don't read questions in other areas of the country.  I probably should, I have looked at Localism.com for other parts of the country sometimes when I've read AR posts about how shameful the other members in that market are (self promoting, spamming, posting market reports, breaking COE, breaking local laws,  etc.)  just to see if it looks "shameful" to someone outside of the market.  

I tend to judge local agents (semi local agents...I have an AR  post about a Trulia Voices question about safety of a neighborhood in Columbus that I think was "shameful")  based on what I see on Trulia.com.  It is such a little snippet of info and I am probably prejudiced because they are competitors.

Missy wrote: "Sometimes you can't tell if they are represented, unless they say so."  

I'd guess the majority of Home Seller questions they don't say they are represented...  that is why this one grabbed me.  It is an old question.  I hope no one could really tell who the agent is in our market who ansswered it is... I tried to generic it up, because I don't want to seem as if I am finding fault with that agent for his decision to answer the seller.  I just decided it was not worth my time to answer it.  I felt like they should discuss strategy with their agent rather than get a committee together to second guess the strategy that is in place. 

A friend in another market in Ohio forwarded me a Trulia Voices question once, assuming that it was an unrepresented seller.  I looked up the name b4 doing anything and found the listing ... piece of cake.  Am I obligated to do that?  I don't believe so. Is there a lead there?  I don't think so. 

If this said Ann Arbor.  Would you answer the question? How would you answer this consumers question?  Thanks for the comment.

I always listen and then ask, if they haven't mentioned it, about working with an agent. If they are not...I usually ask them if I can come see their home before I make any suggestions. It's too important to ball park- to take a guess. If they are working with an agent I tell they need to sit down with their agent and talk it through. I would not answer the question on-line. The liability alone would keep me away.

I think Miss Clementina's post speaks directly to your topic, Maureen!

;)

There will always be those that believe they are qualified to answer a question about real estate regardless of where they are located and where the person asking is located.  It's an ego thing.

As for the appearance of wrongdoing?  I don't feel that there is anything in that forum that promotes any type of unethical behavior, but more of a forum for padding ones' own ego as the ultimate source for all things real estate related.

The only market I am comfortable addressing is my own.  I would not be comfortable discussing Columbus or Cleveland or Dayton.  I don't know a thing about them.

Excellent advice!  The last thing anyone wants is to be hauled into the board for an ethics violation.  Of course, nobody wants to drop the price.  

I don't know the specific state laws in Ohio, but I would wager that if someone is acitvely seeking advice from another real estate professional, you can give it to them.  I know in Minnesota, if I am called or contacted by someone else's client, I can provide them with the information they request if I choose.  I cannot try to lure them away or interfere with their existing agency relationship, but I can help them or give them information if I choose.

So the question for me is, why would I want to help someone who isn't paying me?  I know for my own personal business, I don't necessarily feel like working for free.

Maureen - What is the definition of interfering with another broker's listing?  Let's not try to live so close of the line.  If someone has a problem with an agent, they should go to the broker, not to other agents.  There is a line and if you are a Realtor(R) the line is asking if they have a contractual agreement with another Realtor(R).  This is basic Code of Ethics. Don't interfere with another broker's listing.  The problem is that the COE does not cross state lines, and it is so hard to chase Realtors(R) that do even via Internet.  It is just flat out wrong to second guess another agent in the management of their listings.

I pretty much divert back to the list agent (like you).  I had a weird one last fall where a seller called me and asked me to come over.  My broker said that he wasn't planning on withdrawing it but he was just trying to be clever and get other agents in his home so they can "preview" or make it somewhat a "broker's open".  Made sense to me!

If it were eye to eye that someone asked me I would definitely explain agency law to them (the short version) that I cannot give that info.

I think being on the internet your answer was perfect!

I think that you handled the situation very well because they are already be represented by another agent.

Sorry Miss Clementina I am morally opposed to comment spam even in it's most subtle forms but it was a good try. Sorry to anyone with a taste for SPAM who missed Miss Clemetina's blatant comment spam...photo,  link...wow!!!

Carol, thanks for .... "but more of a forum for padding ones' own ego"   an interesting observation.

Jacon... I am not saying there is anything illegal about it in Ohio, or even that it is against the COE.  I chose not to comment.  I may be more cautious on a site like Trulia.com, ActiveRain than some because I think blogging is a better use of social media than answering questions.  

Seems like a very fine line.  I would agree with Lenn above.  It seems like the seller is the one soliciting advice.  At the same time, you know what they say about opinions...   There are alot of bad and uneducated opinions out there.  It all goes along with the whole 2.0 thing.  Total transparency, right.  Buyers and sellers have access to more information than ever before.  It would be nice to see complete trust and loyalty between agent and client...but I don't see these issues going away.

Great topic question and excellent response.  How many times do agents try to be helpful (or show their superior knowledge) when in fact they don't really know the circumstances. Could be that the Seller is even Listed with another broker in your own office and just looking for another opinion. Either way, best to just listen carefully and respond with guarded caution.  It is evidently still someone else's active Listing.

I believe in avoiding even the appearance of inpropriety (especially in your own area).  Even if you are trying to help and have no intentions of soliciting the customer, the listing agent may not see it that way.  Regardless of whether it is at a social event or online, you should always assume anything that you say or write will get back to the client's agent.  (Maureen said, "your marketing plan is bad and that I'll be wasting my money if I do this.")  If you feel comfortable that your remarks are general enough that they would stand up to board-level scrutiny, then proceed. If not, you should do exactly what you did and refer them to their agent.  Obviously, if you are out of area, most of this stops being an issue.  But, why are commenting on an area where you are not a local expert?  Is it ego as suggested above?  Do you have nothing else to do?

I don't do the Q&A thing. I don't give away my knowledge for free, plus, I want to stay out of trouble. I'll bet the seller just wants to see if what his agent has told him is the same thing that other agents believe.

I also think that what works for one home won't necessarily work for another home ... even in the same town. Afterall, one wouldn't market a $500 home in the same way one would a $100 home or a million dollar home. Without knowing all the specifics - which the seller's agent DOES - I think it's foolhardy to answer such questions.

I participate on a couple of forums and have been on Trulia as well.  I see agents all of the time making comments out of area, which always surprises me.  Maybe they are trying to capture a referral fee or something. 

Some questions are easy to answer and some are hard.  This house could have smoke smell so it's hard to say.  If it were me and I felt compelled to comment on this particular question (which I'm really not) I probably would have stated that buyer agent bonus's don't particularly work for me as an agent, and I would encouarage them to talk with their agent about their marketing and look at other ways to make the home more appealing to buyers. 

I'm kinda with Lenn that either they talked with their agent and didn't like what she had to say, or their agent isn't helping them the way they should.

I don't care what the listing agent says...  I'm not out to impress them with my knowledge... or the consumer for that matter.  But, if someone is getting poor representation, do they not deserve better advice?  If THEY ask for it? 

If you go to your doctor, and he says something , can you not go to another doctor and ask for a second opinion?  Now, if another doctor was hanging out in the parking lot offering second opinons, that would be a different thing, but if someone comes to me, I will give them my opinion.  

In this case, the consumer doesn't know what to do... do you think they had a conversation with their agent?  I would bet that the $2000 bonus came from that... and that isn't a great idea, and may not have the desired result.  MAybe they really need to hear from other agents.   

I think Carol Smith hit the nail on the head.  There are those that more or less "butt in" to other areas of the country and offering advise without knowing that particular market OR they just want to hear themselves talk and dole out bad advise.  When I see that happening...I do jump in.

I think you have to be mindful that a consumer might not know much about the real estate business nor any of its rules and regulations or ethics matters...in that case, if they're asking an honest question, I think they need to be given a decent answer.  I've had consumers in my town call a friend to complain about what their agent is doing and that friend advised them to call me and I told them to #1 Call that Broker and if that broker doesn't tell you their going to correct the problem (something of a serious nature) then #2 Tell the Broker you'll be calling the Real Estate Commission.  At that point, they shouldn't have to ever make that second phone call.  I feel in that type case I've provided good consumer advise regarding something going on that shouldn't be.

Responding on line does have some inherent risks, but responding to a consumer's questions at a party, up to and including taking (not soliciting) a listing does not violate any COE.  Consumers looking for advice are not likely getting it in their current relationship.  I think the safest first step is to refer them to the professional they have already hired, but if they persist, that is their right, and you are well within yours to respond.

That is an interesting question.  I love the blogs today on ethics and codes.  Makes you think.

Maureen, if a seller starts the conversation then there is nothng ethically wrong with me responding. However I would only talk about what I do right not about what the other agent may be doing wrong. That's where I draw the line. I can "pitch" them my services but I can't bad talk the other REALTOR(R).

Fun, Sellers blogging on an on-line real estate blog for confirmation with other agents that their agent is doing the right thing, is yet more opportunity for even more drama. We may have to add this to the listing presentation. Now Mr & Mrs Seller, if you find your way to one of these sites and just cannot resist the lure of answers to your questions, please, again here is my card. Just take a few breaths, then be sure to email me the questions first.

This is a lot like a stranger on the sidewalk who saw the yard sign and wants the seller to let them into the home without the agent right now, no name, no phone number, who the heck are they?

Maureen - Great responses and I have to agree with BB that I would talk about what I would do, not another REALTOR.  I would not respond to a random post by a seller asking for ideas... 

This is a tough one. I have had quite a few 'buyers' contact me from my website only to tell me they are working with another agent but like my website & emails. I don't know if I should remove their access to my site or what?

With the consumers who are leaving vague questions out there askinng for help I do not see the problem with answering questions so long as you do not 1)bash their agent or 2) tell them to come with you....etc

The good thing is that he did state that his home is listed with an agent right from the start.  So a wise agent knows to back away!  What bugs me are those individuals who pry for information, get it, and then throw down the agent card.

Since they explicitly stated that they already have an agent, I would not answer this question. Even a general answer might provide the seller enough motivation to end their existing contract. That's a potential ethics hearing that I wouldn't want to take a chance on.

I see these questions occasionally and do not respond if they have an agent, mostly because it's a public forum. If they called me, then we would have a limited conversation on my marketing methods, and I would not bad mouth the other agent.

I obviously is not an agent, but I do encounter similar lines of questions from people who want to know about staging. I tend to listen first and avoid knocking on another stager's work. If they are unhappy with their stager, which is usually how these questions get started, I usually just offer a couple tips on how they can tweak it, then offer my card in case they want to try me out. It's definitely a tough situation and I certainly do not want to step on someone else's toes.

What do you think? Is there something I should've done differently?

Cheers,

Cindy 

Thanks all for all the comments.I did not look up this seller, agent and this is at least a couple of weeks old....I pulled it and saved it with only the three answers and I can't find it now to see how the conversation continued. 

 I think it is good that the consumer gave these hints in their Trulia question:

"My wife and I have our home listed with an agent" and "Aside from dropping the price drastically is there anything else we can do to increase our showings and chances to sell? "

I know talking to people at a social event or on the phone is not a problem as long as they inititate it.   The conversation on the phone or at a party would go differently than online, IMHO.  I would wager most people carrying on the conversation in person (phone, face to face) are going to say... "what street are you on?" and "who is the listing broker, listing agent?" You don't see that on Trulia.com (web 2.0 in general)  but you can look that up if they give you enough info.  Some decisions about what can be said privately would be different than what happens onliine IMHO.  I bet some local boards end up getting tied up w/ ethics complaints over this kind of question in the future, listing agent seeing the "conversation" later in the game may have a totally different outlook on how things "went down"  and they have a record of what was said publicly. Will it be enough to get anyone in trouble? Depends. Will it be a nuisance? Could be for boards, brokers...I believe  some agents egos will get them in trouble with web 2.0 

I did find the continuation of the conversation online. 

Only the one local agent commented and there are a handful of local agents who are participating on Trulia Voices now. I would think because of the "have our home listed with an agent." 

The one local agents comment mostly talked to the seller from the point of view of someone who was working with buyers...saying that he would not be motivated by a bonus to the selling broker, and a bonus to selling agent  can turn off buyers. He offered advice about it being in the best possible condition to show.  

It looks as if agents from outside the area, talked the seller into dropping the price, based on the market. Which is what his agent must have been saying:"Aside from dropping the price drastically is there anything else we can do to increase our showings and chances to sell?"

So maybe all the hubbub and angst about agents from outside the area answering questions is really unwarranted, (so long as they stay away from state law questions...??? ) maybe if the out of area agent  and the consumer are getting something out of it...  the rest of us should mind our own business? Again I don't get what the agent gets from the interaction....

Cindy I believe because we are all part of the MLS locally it is different than other competitive situations like staging, home inspection and all the other related real estate industries.  The mls  is a unique way of doing business .. the seller may have been giving a lot more information than he should have to someone who could potentially be negotiating for someone else in a transaction with him.   I never said anything about the COE or state laws in the post but you can see that's where the conversation went right from the start.  Thanks for your comment , I like the thing about 'not stepping on toes." 

Not sure about your state, but here, if the Seller initiates contact with me, I can talk to them all day long about my services and what I would do.  I just can't tell them what to do with their agent. 

Hi Maureen,  It irritates me, honestly, when I see these questions pop up on Trulia.  I feel bad for the consumer because either their agent is not doing their job or just simply not communicating well with them...but it is not our position to nose in and give advice.

Sometimes I forward people over to my blog or just say I'm sorry, you are being represented by someone else I can't answer that.  It depends on the question, like Joshua above mentioned sometimes it is ok to answer. 

Which brings up another deal...then people get ticked because "we won't answer the question because we are greedy"  They don't understand our COE.  I guess that is our fault though.  :)

I think I feel a blog coming on..you have inspired me.  :)  Good luck with your Columbus guy.

WOW Stephanie Really HOW do you know the sellers aren't being represented wonderfully? From that question YOU can judge that the listing agent is not communicating with the seller. That he's not doing a good job of marketing the property?  The seller does not want to reduce his price (think maybe he's been told what the market in the neighborhood is? maybe by his listing agent?)  

"Good luck with your Columbus guy."

My Columbus guy?  I did not comment.  He doesn't know me from Adam.  I am not pursuing a listing.  I am not commenting with any links to impress the seller.  I don't see anything in that question or the thread (which obvioulsy you can't see) that  indicates the listing agent has not been totally professional and gone above and beyond for the seller.

Great discussion!

For me, I see nothing wrong with answering this question. As Lenn and Lane point out, the Seller posted the question and is seeking input. They are coming to us, as real estate professionals.

You may in fact be doing the listing agent a favor - you could be re-enforcing what has already been said to the seller. Or, you may give the Seller some food for thought by giving an opinion outside thier area. There is also nothing wrong with starting out your response: "While I'm not your agent, it is my opinion that...." or "Given the information here, my opinion is..."

Debbie I never said there was anything wrong with answering the question.  I personally would not spend time doing that.   I think posting something on my own blog is a better use of  my time.. 

Or maybe you are responding to someone in the comments who thinks NO ONE should answer the question..

I don't believe  there is a listing there that he is soliciting anyone to win, he's listed, he does not say anything about his agent except that he has one.   I don't see any sign that he is dissatifisfied with his agent in his question (or the thread which you can't see.)

I think the out of area agents did in fact help the listing agent, get a price reduction... 

Isn't it the person who asks the question who decides what the BEST ANSWER is?  this out of area answer got "BEST ANSWER"

"BEST ANSWER
It sounds as though your true sale price is closer to the $189,000 mark, than the $199,000 you've been sitting at. And based on my prior post, a $10,000 difference, in _____, is enough to slow down buyers in your area.

Why wait 'till the end of the month? Cancel the buyer's agent bonus NOW (they're rarely effective), and reduce to $189,000 now while the spring market is still moving.

Who knows, there could be a buyer out there now, looking for your exact home, but the price is keeping them away. A month from now, when their agent sends they your newly reduced listing, they'll say to themselves "we didn't like it... " And they won't remember that the "Thing" they didn't like about your house, was the price! "

The sellers last comment was that he was reducing but still leaving the bonus in place.

Hi Maureen,  I was joking about the your Columbus guy comment.  :)  I was in a goofy mood this morning.  Sorry.

I agree with what you are saying completely and I should have gone in to more detail.   There will obviously always be people that will not want to take advice or just don't like what we have to say, need to hear it from someone else, etc... and no, I have no idea how this particular consumer is being represented. 

Online questions in public forums just really make me nervous because we are only hearing one side and not all of the details on top of that.  If we were to go on a listing or buyer appointment, we would make sure that we had all of the details before giving an opinion why should online questions be different?  All of that is more of what I didn't totally get in to when I don't answer people sometimes.  

Sorry for running together too many thoughts together in my first comment.  I was partially referring to questions not online from sellers.  For example, at the car wash or something where the conversation is a little longer..

I also agree with the reason why you chose not to answer...and why you posted it here. 

I tend to just listen and don't even attempt to give suggestions --- generally there is more to the story then just what a seller is telling you...

Suggestions to sellers under contract is something that has become a little too prevalent when a home seller comes back and asks us to do things that are obviously coming from another agent...things that we've already done/tried long ago in marketing that don't work type of suggetions.

In the past, I've always found out where the suggestions were coming from and I certainly do not want to be the one having my name mentioned on suggestions on what another agent should be doing...

That's a tough one. It's hard not to answer and help. I don't know what should be done. However, the sellers definitely should sit down and talk to their agent. They could brainstorm together to see if they could come up with something.

Thanks all for the comments.

I never saw anything that looked like the seller did not have confidence in his listing agent I wonder why someone priced at $XXX,XXX  would whisper to other real estate agents and  the world in general "my agent and the market tell me I am overpriced but do you think if I offer a bribe to buyer's agents, they'll drag buyers through my home... so I don't have to reduce my price to what it is worth in this market."  That was what I wanted to answer...

Paul you are right there is always more to the story.