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Shattered Dreams, Wasted Time: The Demise of the 20-Something Mortgage Brokers

It would not be fair to say they were in it for the money. And yet, MONEY (or shall I say EASE of making money) was what drew so many in.

It was, the gold rush that caused many young people to forsake college. Worse, to sacrifice those twenty-something years for a career that would be cruelly cut short by the housing/mortgage crisis, instead of one that would sustain them for the rest of their life.

Hopes and dreams left behind in the dust. They never saw it coming.

They are, sadly, the young people who landed in the wrong place, at the wrong time. Who, through no fault of their own, had a short term perspective. They knew nothing but the good times, and no one told them the biggest secret about being in business for yourself:

You never get too high on the hog. For every good run of business, there is a bad one lurking around the corner. It is a law of nature. It is the way things are. You learn or you burn.

But it doesn't make anything seem easier.

No one says "Mommy, when I grow up I want to be a MORTGAGE BROKER". No one goes to college to major in MORTGAGES. True mortgage geeks are few and far between. Those attracted to easy money? Just about every one of us.

Salesmanship was not required then. With so much fruit falling all around, those in the mortgage business didn't need to fertilize or cultivate the Mortgage Money Tree. Fruit fell everywhere.

Knowledge was not required then. New mortgage brokers were not trained, they were thrown to the wolves. They were told to get the loan. The bank rep would price it. The processors would close it. If something didn't make sense, go fumble around for answers. Everyone was too busy to help you, and yet, somehow, the loan closed. NEXT!

Those were the days when a sparkling personality and a real estate license meant a six figure income and driving a better car than your dad. It meant leaving work at 4 and partying into the night. It was a culture, it was a lifestyle, and it all went up in smoke.

Without perspective, many stayed in too long, choosing to believe there was a small storm passing over, instead of the tornado that would leave us devastated. They let their cars get repossessed. They couldn't pay their taxes, or their house payment. I watched in agony as they struggled way too long with false hopes fostered by the memory of easy money and fast times.

They were caught in the web, exactly like the homeowner that should never have bought real estate. Both ensnarled, both lacking perspective, both drawn into an irresistable web that sparkled like a money magnet and obscured sound judgement.

They are leaving now, and it is hard to watch them go. Their exuberance, their youth, their optimism was always an enormous spark for me. In spite of being younger than me, they helped me. They lobbied for me and they cheered for me. They wanted me to succeed. They embraced me in every sense of the word, and every step of the way.

Much to my amusement, they tried desperately to monitor their use of the F word in front of me (and always failed miserably). They patiently explained software and fixed my self imposed computer glitches (an unspoken obligation that their generation owes mine). They created excuse after excuse to celebrate anything and everything, and brought a spirit of fun and mischief into the office. Some days working in the office was more like living in a college dorm. But then, they were not that far removed from college days, were they?

I will miss them dearly.

They have scattered to new jobs, to live with their parents, and to figure out what will be next. Those of us left behind have, for the most part, been here before (have the perspective of other times like this) or we are the true money geeks that insanely believe the harder the business is, the more fascinating it becomes. We were more prepared. We were older. We came ready to work with our twenty something craziness left far behind.

Our newest mortgage broker is under 30. He has masters in economics from UC Berkeley, 7 years of mortgage experience under his belt, and is a true money geek if ever there was one. He could be described as way more focused than fun, drives a Toyota, and knows his stuff backwards and forwards. We have already embraced him as a kind of mortgage guru. His mind is like a steel trap.

He moved into the office next to mine that was vacated by a mortgage broker his same age. He had lost his Infiniti, lost his house (financed last year with a 100% loan), and finally moved back to Florida to live with his Mom. He stayed too long, and lost everything.

I couldn't help but think this was an appropriate changing of the guards. A very fitting comment on the future of our business, and a very sad statement about our past.

Written by Janet Guilbault, California Mortgage Expert Based Out of the San Francisco Bay Area.

Posted by Janet Guilbault California Mortgage Banker/Broker on 04/07/2008 03:33 AM

Comments (81)

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81 Comments on Shattered Dreams, Wasted Time: The Demise of the 20-Something Mortgage Brokers

APR

2008

Janet,

As always, your posts are well written and thought provoking. This rings so true, in more industries than one, but how poignant for a time such as this. Let's hope for beauty from ashes and those that got burning learning from the refiner's fire.

All the best,

Audrey

Its experience. Things in life happen. My parents grew up in the depression and money did not even exist. I learned from then and only later in life do you realise what they were trying to say. The good ones will land on their feet again.

I need to start reading your tomato blog, you should link it to active rain. Check me out www.neworleanscondotrends.com . See or hear you at our next lesson.

You are a pro at writing these blogs.

Hi Janet,

Excellent post! One has to wonder why they didn't see it coming. What is blind faith? Was it immense greed? Was it the me, me, me syndrome? Who know's. In any event, it was time for a cleansing of the market.

Audry: Thank you. I do think the cleansing of an industry is always a good thing is so many ways. I remain a little shocked at how many fell by the wayside when times got tough. It makes me appreciate perspective all the more, not to mention ActiveRain. Blogging helps you think things through and come to conclusions.

Changing with the tide is a requirement to succeed in our business. It is more than a little sad that some just were not committed enough to do what it has taken to change.

Your level of committment really shows in this kind of market.

Eric: Hi, I was so pleased to have you on that conference call the other day. I love what the Tomato has done for your outside blog....it always makes me wish I was in N. O..

My outside blog is not quite ready for prime time and is being revised. I had wanted at first to have it about auto leasing and mortgages. I know, kinda, dumb, but I quickly realized I have lost my passion for the auto leasing business and without passion, I cannot write anything, It is my driving force.

But it will soon be up and running and focused on the consumer much like yours.

The good ones will land on their feet. You are right to say it is all a learning experiece. I have been dealing with the financial industry for over 25 years. It is a little easier for me to make correct calls about what the future holds than a 25 year old who is still part party animal and part mortgage broker. LOL

Oh, Bill, I refuse to be too harsh with them. They are a wonderful generation with so much to give to the world. I do not blame them for being attracted to the business at a time when money was flowing. I do not blame them for thinking it would never end.

They will make their way and be fine. But they will probably never be lulled into thinking that the good times will roll forever. They have learned that lesson.

Hi Janet, I flagged this for feature, it's not only wonderfully written but so true in the Real Estate business as well. I was just talking to a friend about this yesterday. It seems that us old timers are the only ones left and I agree the business is much more interesting now than it was in the recent past. They'll be another crop of 20 somethings during the next boom.

Very sensitive touch to a perplexing change in the direction of the lives of many in the mortgage industry.

However, it isn't the first time we've witnessed such a phenomenon. The same thing happened in the late 90s in the high tech bubble. I knew many young folks who rode to the top with start-up companies, stock options, high incomes and the stuff that dreams are made of, only to have their hopes and dreams dashed when the bubble burst. I sold homes to many of them. They came up fast and came down just about as fast.

Wonder when the next bubble will rise???

Janey,

Great post. I know a handful of those 20 somethings you are talking about. While I am one of the few i know to want to make this a career, many of the people I know were in it for easy money unfortunately. If you don't challenge yourself and want to be the best, it will eventually catch up with you and you will never grow, or worse you will fail.

The trick to living on a commission heavy (or only) job is to live BELOW your means. I take this to heart. Great post again! I like reading you blog. Keep up the great work!

Janet, I see the young and not so young brokers come into the bank. They stay a month of two, wanting to find the good life they "HAD". Living fast and furious lives, living for today, and now having to walk away form their flashy cars and homes. Only a few have the work ethics, to survive in this market. But, what challenges us, makes us stronger, if we can survive. AJ

Hi Tracey: Oh gosh, we are old timers? Sheesh, why do I hate the sound of that?

I have to tell you though, that if one of my 20 something kids wanted to be in the mortgage business right now, it would be hard to support that decision. I firmly believe your twenties are a time to lay the groundwork for your career, through education, or through experience.

I don't know how long our current state of business will last. But what it it lasts for 5 years? There is an opportunity cost that comes with every decision. Joining an industry in crisis means you lose the opportunity to do something else.

Not to worry. I am looking around and finding a newbie in the mortgage business is nearly impossible.

Lenn: I was leasing cars to those same kids when you were selling them houses. Silicon Valley is part of the Bay Area, and they couldn't wait to cash in those stock options and get a BMW. I can't begin to tell you the number of trips our drivers made to San Jose to deliver new sports/luxury cars to 27 year old millionaires.

It is hard to understand the business world until you live it. To make alot of money when you are so young often leads to a skewed perspective. Look at Hollywood. Not the same, but there are conclusions to be drawn.....

You can understand why trust funds are often withheld until someone is older. The grandpa that set it up? Old enough to get it.

Casey: Thank you so much, I am very glad to have you as a new reader of this blog. Your comments are always interesting.

Yes, the trick is to live below your means, but oh, how hard it that for everyone, not just someone who is young. We live in a country where consumerism is worshipped, and spending carries a much bigger immediate reward than saving.

You are very rare to be able to live that way, and I admire you for this, Casey. I hope this is one of the lessons we all learn, but I am not optimistic about this.

AJ: What you say is true. The younger LO's that have left our brokerage have attemted to work at banks, somehow thinking there are hundreds of easy leads that are walking through the doors every day. WRONG!

They are remnants of the way it was, and they just don't get it. They want it to be as easy as it was, and they sadly became spoiled. Easy is just way over.

I will always be grateful I entered the real estate business years ago in one of these horrible markets. I WAS the only young person in the office. Thank God I was madly in love the real estate business and had never been in an up market. Thank God my husband supported me in the six months it took me to earn my first commission.

A year later the market turned and only then did I realize what a down market I had been in. I finally had perspective! PS I was 25 years old and bought a brand new yellow Corvette that banner year. It all goes to show you what is important to you at 25 years of age never seems to change. LOL

I know what you mean and even though I may have started in my twenty somethings...my husband and I are still going strong in the business. It was the ones that weren't prepared and overspent themselves like everyone else. It wasn't just the young....

I wasn't in it just for the money but for the opportunity to make a great career and help people understand the most important financial decision. So not everyone is in it for the money. I do not see myself doing anything else career wise but mortgages.I love this business the good and the bad.

Naoma: You are correct in stating that out of control spending was not something that was exclusive to 20 somethings. My point was only that if you have never been through a down market, it is hard to imagine that it could actually happen.

It has now become increasingly apparant that many, many young people did not think like you. But just for the record, my observation is that they failed not only to have perspective, but to learn the business.

That is why they were unprepared when it became far more difficult. That is why it seemed a lot less "fun". And this is when those that were not committed (like you) just fell by the wayside.

They also did not get out soon enough in many cases.

Look for it tomorrow - you'll be in Mortgage Pro Week in Review... again. THANKS for your great work!

Eleanor: Thank you, I am honored and look forward to reading the other selections you have made.

Good stuff. OTSS Only the strong survive, with both mortgage officers and agents. I still know a few hard working ones under 30 gettin them loans done! Im 26 and real estate has never been better!!!

APR

2008

Janet, you're a great writer.

It's a sad story...but not too sad.

I'm on the younger side of this (be 33 next month), but whatever they had in exuberance and optimism they ruined with greed, fraud and ignorance.

Every day I get a phone call from someone who they put through the wringer and can not be helped.

The good ones will find a way to make it work. The bad ones can leave, and quickly.

Joey: I refuse to associate greed fraud and ignorance with 20 somethings. I am certain those 3 things run across the board to all ages, and like you, I am happy to see the industry cleansed.

There is a kind of innocence lost going on here. It is hard to describe. The younger ones in my office were certainly honest. They just didn't get with it quick enough when things changed and did not have the reserves to sustain themselves.

David: I am thrilled for you. The business needs the young people to stay vital. Don't think the changes for real estate agents have been as dramatic. In the mortgage world, we have been turned upside down.

We have plenty of buyers, but the inablity to place loans due to restrictive guidelines. Challenging times.

This is a good thing overall. Changing gaurds usually makes for better security!

Excellent post---It is sad to see so many lives and careers turned upside down.

Janet, very good well written story on how lives behind the scene are affected, and I have seen it here too. Title companies and mortgage companies closing the doors. What a mess, but as your post said they didn't have the perspective of history to say, what goes up, must come down.

Accurate Post. We have probably even more of that here in Florida sad to say. I still think there are few more hanging on but most have gone by the wayside. I had many friends lose their mortgage, bank, title, construction or real estate jobs that weren't commission based too. It is pretty sad. They were doing it right, or so it seemed. I'm glad I'm in control of my own destiny though. You know how many agents I have coming into my office to check on what I offer because their broker has disappeared & closed up shop?

Very good post. Sad but things like this, is a fact of live.

Wow, very well written. It is very sad, hopefully lessons are learned.

I think that sometimes those in the profession that got caught up in the real estate boom are forgotten victims to it as well.

Sadly, the same thing is happening in real estate sales. What I mean is it is sad to see them go. The part I am excited about is the cream rising to the top. The reputation of any industry is only as good as its weakest link.

wow wow wow. You nailed it. I left a good brokerage company to go work for a place where I was SURE to make six-figures and finally be 'happy'. Well, after the manager plopped a pile of leads on my desk, and turned and walked away, I slowly but surely came to the realization that the places making the big bucks treated their employees with no respect, and they in turn treated their clients with no respect. I left after one month to go back to where I belonged!

A lot of the big-shots are trying to figure out what to do now- they have no referral base, no go-get-'em skills, nothing. So, yes, they are leaving in droves. I think that's a good thing.

- an under-30 'money geek'.

Jennifer: I think the whole trend is like exposing something that we did not want to admit was true about our business: that there were people just riding the wave. When that wave became a dangerous tsunami, some tried to ride it, but did not have the skills.

Some just looked at that big tall wave and said, "I'm not even going to attempt it!"

And as I watch, I feel a little embarassed....that people with so little committment and so little knowledge were actually top producers who were riding along on their personality instead of their knowledge.

Ouch.

George, that you for that comment. I think that was really one of the points of this post. You do forget how many people have lost jobs in our industry....and since it always impacts those that are the newest in the business the worst, it is heartbreaking to see so much fallout.

I console myself by telling myself they are young and will bounce back into something "better". But going into reality after making so much money and having so much freedom may be a hard pill to swallow.

Susan in Florida: We have had a flood of people come into our office with so many mortgage offices going under. But we have absolutely no newbies coming around. And the average age of mortgage brokers is definately going up.....I used to feel "older" with all the kids around. No more.

We also were fortunate enough to get many top producers. It is a different atmosphere, but I really like being around people who have been successful for many years.

Thursday used to be party night, and the office was almost empty on Fridays. Not any more. Everyone is working their butt off.

This is the right stuff.

Tony: I'm not sure I am ready to call them our weakest link. They brought so much to the table, and honestly wanted to succeed. They just did not have the professional foundation, and maybe were just too young to have so much freedom and so much money.

They did not have the financial foundation either. That is a biggie.

Missy, Chip, Diane: Thanks for your comments. I begged the guy in the office next to me to get out of the mortgage business and go get a salaried job as a some kind of sales rep before it was too late. He didn't, then he just quietly came in over one weekend and cleaned out his desk and left for Florida.

I had also told him to go live at home. That is what parents are for. I am glad he took this advice, and hope he is healing. I am certain this was an enormous blow to his ego

You are a very caring and thoughtful person. More people in the business should be like you!

Way too funny. I have seen many 20 somethings come and go.

Janet,

Introduce us to your newest mortgage broker. We need some new lending blood on Active Rain, and it sounds like he would be a good blogger!

Mike in Tucson

Janet, what a nicely done take on the younger contingent. I understand the energy of which you speak, and like you, miss many aspects of that participation. We were young once, and hung on; for those that want to remain in the business, the opportunity is there. It's just about adjusting (and saving) with the changes. Hopefully, those that really loved the JOB will hang tough.

I agree with Mike above Janet.

In the 'cleansing' that has occurred with everthing that has and continues to transpire, I've seen some of the very good and young go and seen the bad go just as well. It's a shame to lose the good ones, who were good at what they did and good and ethical people more importantly. Yet, I think this is more of a positive than a negative over the long haul. It doesn't make losing the good people any easier though....

Mike: Interesting you should make that comment. I have encouraged our new mortgage broker to write. I actually suggested a report (even naming it), and encouraging him to line up the URL. I would be his first subscriber.

He has an amazing depth of knowledge and a grasp on numbers and math I cannot even begin to explain. You are only around him for a few seconds before you recognize his brilliance, and his ablity to make calls with pinpoint accuracy, and very little thought.

Having said this, he does no marketing. He has no brand. But he works harder than anyone else in the company, and longer. Realtors love him, but he does absolutely nothing to encourage this.... He doesn't play defense, only offense, when it comes to dealing with lenders, and he has an amazing amount of clout with our banks as a result.

However, he has expressed to me that he prefers to fly beneath the radar, and I must believe him and respect this. He is one of those rare people who attain celebrity, but not by choice, and not willingly.

PS He wins top producer every month but will not place the trophy on his desk. He gives it to someone else in the office to keep on their desk.

Jason...see comment above about the new broker in our office.

I think one of the reasons I like you so much is because you have that same youthful perspective and sense of fun. Really, I love being around the younger generation, and my big confession is this: I like having fun at the office!

It is hard to make decisions when you have only been around the block one time. It is better for those people to move on and find something different, even though I do not think it was their fault. Wrong time. Wrong place.

Honestly, I hope our business never returns to the days of easy money. I had been dying to get back in the real estate business for 20 years when I finally made the leap. It had nothing to do with easy money, and everything to do with loving being around all things real estate.

Wow -what a great post! My wife calls me the "Mortgage Angel of Death" because all of the few places I have worked in the past 8 years in this business have closed down - most of the owners actually being over 50. A lot of small broker shops have closed down here in Columbia - a lot of friends have changed careers. Thank you for voicing what I believe a lot of us are feeling.

Disclaimers:- I am not young (pushing mid-forties FYI) but I am fairly new to real estate and am not a mortgage specialist but a Realtor. I am a "newer" agent having entered the business at the very end of the "gold rush" - too late to benefit from it. Many are confusing "new" with "young" so I felt the need to clarify.

Having said that, I think that in general we have confused Calvinist Ideology with reality. "The Protestant work ethic" - though compelling often clouds the realities of life and is overly simplistic. Calvinist ideology (for those who don't know) suggests that those who prosper "deserved to" while those that don't or those that have had bad things happen to them are inherently flawed people. Folks, it doesn't always work that way! Those that have the MONEY AND RESOURCES will survive and prosper tremendously - because the bulk of their competition will be GONE. How they got their resources is as varied as the number of individuals left standing. Some saved for the rainy day. Others were too young and didn't have time to put money away - or chose not to. Some may have closed a lot of loans they shouldn't have creating more resources to survive the downturn. There is too much generalizing here - so I agree with Jason Sardi that we have to be careful in our assumptions.

The "cleansing" that everyone is so hot for is taking out the good with the bad - the greedy with the geeks - the honest and the dishonest - the old-timers and newbies (although people newer to the industry are far more vulnerable.)

The notion that a cleansing of any industry will take out all that was bad before doesn't work. This is an industry that must be re-regulated and undergo greater scrutiny or the same problems will return to haunt us again and again.

Janet, Great post. You really hit the nail on the head.

Janey, Great posts as I have seen this happen to so many people! Only the strong will survive.

(I would be his second subscriber:-)

Wow! Great post Janet, We have personally gone through this huge turnover in Atlanta also. It has also been similiar with Real Estate agents.

Having worked with a dot com for a few years I understand that the under 30 crowd had a different way of working. I learned to appreciate their energy and learned how to work with them instead of against them. Unfortunately our current market doesn't leave much room for error and for those who didn't plan well they have seen the harsh reality of living large and not having a backup plan.

Janet - I see you are pretty experienced. I came into the business 6 years after you. My first day as a loan officer consisted in the broker handing me a stack of flyer's and said, "go get em". I had no idea what "get em" meant. No training, no experience and no guidance. I really don't think things have changed that much. We have good broker's who train and support and bad broker's who are only in it for the buck. How I see the 20 somethings that failed in the droves are more like the dot com boom. Whether it's the 80s 90s or now it's a sad thing to watch. Thanks for your post, it brought back memories.

Regulation creates another whole set of problems, Ruthmarie. Regulation can bring down a whole industry and often harms more than it helps.

Lenders have already taken action to curtail loans that were just too risky. Some might even claim guidelines are way too strict right now. No regulation is needed. Banks are here to make a profit and if they are losing money from a product that blew up, they will eliminate that product, or severely restrict who gets to have it. That is what they have done and why it is unlikely our problems will return as you have predicted.

Fraud is a different issue entirely. The mortgage crisis is not about fraud. It is about lending practices that were too loose.

FYI, this post is not about cleansing the industry, although many have made comments including this concept. This post is saying exactly what you said in your comment: These 20 somethings were not flawed. They did not deserve to have something bad happen to them. It is not a generalization to say they had less resources and less perspective as a result of their age, and therefore were not as prepared to get through the storm.

You can't live like the good times will never end in any profession. It's sad but true..

In any profession, one has to be prepared for changes. Change is always happening. You need to be keen to what is happening in your industry.

Great post, and some interesting comments. At 31, I am probably still on the younger side of the business (at least in my area), but I feel like my experience has been more well-rounded than that of my peers who worked in "Boiler Room" type firms. They learned how to make money... not how to be a true mortgage pro.

If you apply yourself, and have actual knowledge and a professional attitude, I believe you can survive.

excellent post, and the same can be said about those Realtors who got in for easy money. I always like to confess though that I was one of those who got in thinking it would be a living large lifestyle with minimal work. I then found a passion for this business and studied, got better, trained with top producers, and am proud to say this is now my career!!

Awww...that's sad. I can't imagine losing it all and having to live with the parents again. YIKES!

It can happen to any of us at any time - in the right conditions.

Let's hope things get better for everyone in RE.

Hi Janet: As an older loan officer, I've seen the demise of the younger set in my office. You're right on in that they didn't always "learn" the business. It's unfortunate in that I enjoyed working with the younger set-they knew how to have fun. And I'm sure that they'll be back as the market corrects itself. In the meantime, here's to experienced loan originators who know how to get the job done!

Paul

Right on Team Carroll! Passion for what you do is so much more rewarding than easy money.

Paul: Sounds like your office had the same fall out as mine. Honestly, I like the new environment better. The party scene for awhile was a little over the top for a "older" loan officer like me. I always got invited, but you need to be 20 to party that hard. And 20 was a few moons ago for me.

Yep... easy money realtors and mortgage brokers, gone...

Janet: It was easy money and they didn't have to know anything, in truth they were order takers. But the real fact is that the industry doesn't promote education. People who come into the industry have to see the value of knowledge and desire to acquire it, otherwise they will fail. There is a vast opportunity in the industry if people are wiling to pay the price - education. Those who acquire the knowledge will thrive in this market. There is a shortage of knowledgeable LO's. Great post. It is sad to see people lose their homes and cars, but they did have a choice, they didn't take the opportunity to understand the industry they had chosen to work in. And there just isn't a free lunch, you have to pay upfront or after you have eaten. Patti - CA

Patti: As an interesting note to your comment I would say this: Right now the mortgage business is a sink or swim kind of environment. What I mean by that is there is no way to make it unless you are educated and know your stuff. There is no way to just ride along and close a loan here and there because your friends like you.

But that is not enough. You must also know how to constantly monitor and process new information that is thrown your way hour by hour....(note Wamu closed their doors today....and we are now minus one of our biggest lenders)

You are correct in stating the requirements need to be higher for getting in the business. The high stakes require it.

Janet, One thing you do hear any more is banks wanting to get into the retail real estate business. Do you remember when this was a topic. How quickly things change.

just like mother nature, we are weeding out the weak links and i think it's great.

Good post. And while it might sound not nice, some people actually should be going. The ones who are not really working at the business.

Janet... again, another well-written piece. But I will disagree with one major thing... I will not miss them nor feel sorry for them. I got into business in 1992.... a big refi boom... I also took the time and pride to know my job well, when the broker didn't really train me. I had a 3 day course and that was it... I had to learn what I know now, mostly on my own or asking questions. And I learned 80% of what I know the first 4 years of the business. The rest was from experience... and a lot of it was from asking and doing hard loans.. learning how to think outside of the box. I went after that business then and now. Overall, so many were just happy to feed a loan in to DU and wait for it to spit out ... Approved/Eligible. I took some under my wing, to teach them how to view things and how/what to learn. Many wanted to take the easy road, which at one point, for 3 to 4 years, was very profitable.

Overall... I don't consider myself a mean and hateful person... but I ma glad many are leaving and I need more to leave. I am working on my 4 loan in as little as 3 1/2 weeks to where the consumer was promised a loan. 3 of the never made it to settlement, being told the day before, that they were either denied and still no approval.

In any case, you write well.... but we can't feel sorry for everyone. I want someone with passion, rich or poor... busy or not busy. I was both in good times and bad... There is no room in this business for the greedy, just trying to make a buck. congrats on the feature...

Very interesting post Janet. I always enjoy reading your articles. Thanks.

APR

2008

Wow, Great post. You have a very creative writing style that draws readers in. For a post that "long" I actually enjoyed it. Thank you.

It is hard to see the end of an era and the beginning of another. We will all be stronger because of it and as in anything in life the strongest and smartest survive. BYE

Hi Jeff: Thank you, as always, for commenting with a perspective that reflects a viewpoint that is uniquely yours. You are an interesting and passionate guy, and I really like that you always think through your opinions, and are able to express them so well. You are genuine, and I like that.

You are right to come away with the assumption I have a deep sympathy for those kids that lost out because they "took the easy road" as you said. I can't help it, Jeff. This generation has a personality all their own, and I can't help but be drawn to them, admire them, and enjoy the heck out of them.

Please don't forget that they came of age during a stock market boom (where 20 somethings grew rich from stock options, not work), and a ref boom (where work/saving was not required to cash in the big bucks) Can we really blame them for being who they are any more than we can blame our parents for STILL dealing with money as if there is another Great Depression around the corner?

I completely agree they do not belong in our business and they won't be here very long anyway because it is no longer a business that where money is "easy".

But to say they were greedy...do not agree. Lazy? Lacking passion? Looking for something to do because they couldn't decide on a career? Saw others making money and having fun and wanted that too? Well, yes, they are guilty of this, Jeff.

But we should cut them some slack because of their age, don't you think? And if anything, we should raise the standards for getting into the business to attract those with a much higher level of committment.

Are you mad you lost your job or made less money than a 20 something?

It seams you are bitter.

I have met many 30+ mortgage and real estate brokers that are antiquated, out of touch, can't use a computer, can't adapt to new technologies, and have gone broke as well.

Age isn't what makes you its drive and intelligence. I'm 25 and I'm out selling 30-50 year olds and all they can do is snare at me,

Young Gun: You thought the tone of this was bitter or mad? Most who commented claimed I was way too sympathetic with the subject matter.

I have not lost my job. I agree that the other side of the coin is older people in the real estate industry that have not kept up with technology and the changing times. They also will be falling by the wayside. This is a different subject.

If you are one of the 20-somethings that has successfully adapted to this challenging market, then I respect you and admire you. I want to see young people in the business as I think this post clearly states.

Please know this post was in no way intended to be a criticism of your generation, or a statement that older people are better suited to the real estate profession. Older people only have one thing that you don't: a longer term perspective.

Outstanding observation Janet. And absolutely true. Just look at all the job losses in 2007 and whats projected in 2008. I've been in lending for all of my adult life, some 30 years. 6-10 years ago, we saw a rash of people, young and old enter our industry when it became apparent that there was easy money to be had. And they got it. Now, they're out there selling vacuum cleaners to make a buck. Laudy I love this business. As long as I have been in it, there's no better soap opera anywhere!

BTW - "We came ready to work with our twenty something craziness left far behind." When exactly does this happen. My wife, family and I keep waiting............

Okay Scott, you got me on that one. I think the reason I love being around them so much is I completely had forgotten how much dang fun it is to be twenty. My body does not hold up as well, however. They seem to be able to get no sleep and drink lots of liquor and then still function. I am so beyond that!

APR

2008

YOu don't want regulation Janet, Tell me...how is your health care policy working for you? Or does your husband take care of that? I have to pony up $700 a MONTH for health care...just for insurance. Those are unregulated free markets that the METHUGLICANS forced us into. It is legal - thanks the the METHUGLICANS...but it is immoral, disingenuous and dishonest. It harms millions of families for no good reason except to enrich a few. Part of regulation is creating law that makes sense for EVERYONE not just the few. You free market cowboys just don't get it and will bring this country to its knees screeching about FREE MARKETS. NO REGULATION = Anarchy! Just wait till NOVEMBER you guys are soooo toast.

Ruthmarie: Please forgive me ignorance.. what are methuglicans? Would like to know before making a comment back.

My husband and I are both self employed. We pay our own health care and it is as expensive as hell. I am not certain what the answer is for healthcare, Ruthmarie. But any time money goes into a giant pool then comes back out re-distributed without the forces of free market... prices soar. If everyone did have to pay their own healthcare, people would be healthier. There would be an economic incentive to be healthier.

Also, there would be competition, which would cause prices to come down. Suddenly the healthcare industry would have a reason to lower prices. Ever wonder why a q-tip at the hospital costs $100? Because that's what they can get away charging because there is no free market there.

Janet- I think a q-tip costs that much because, unfortunately, we have a lot of greed in our society. On 9/11, taxi drivers were charging insane amounts- why? Because they decided to take advantage of the fact that ny'ers had no way out and were scared out of their minds. When the blackout hit just a few years ago, I drove down the day after to find people camping out on the Hutchinson Parkway- they walked out on their own, and spent the night on the side of the highway. I guess the cabbies pulled the same crap.

I think we should start acting like a united country, instead of a bunch of animals driven by profit and greed. In terms of our health care situation, there should be no one in between the consumer and the service provider making a dime of profit. I don't see how insurance companies earn their money- they offer no benefit. There has to be a better way out there somewhere. HSA's are a great start, but not nearly enough.

I have a question for you, Jennifer. Would it have been better to have had no taxi drivers at all after 911?? Is it fair you pay $10 for a hamburger inside of Disneyland?

Should all of us in the real estate business lower our prices to help out those that are suffering because they have no equity or cannot afford their payments? Are we "greedy" because we want to earn a living when others are suffering? Are we taking advantage of their problems? Who will be the first to lower their price to help?

Q-tips cost $100 because there is no one down the street who will sell them for less. Look at any monopoly and you will see exorbitant pricing. Why do you think monopolies are against the law? Why do you think the government, the biggest monopoly of all, has to pay $300 for a hammer when they need one?

One at a time.

1) No. Taxi drivers are a necessity, so that would kinda stink. Not sure why the next step would be to eliminate taxi drivers, instead of hoping they wouldn't sink as low as an extortionist in times of need though.

2) No. A hamburger of sub-par quality should never cost $10, no matter where you are. :)

3) No one was suggesting a lowering of real estate prices to help out the poor people. Not sure if you mean prices, commissions or what, be more specific.

4) There is a HUGE difference between making a living and taking advantage. So, no. People are not greedy for wanting to make a living.

5) If the government is a monopoly, why do they purchase any goods from private companies at all? And why is it $300 for a hammer? I have no idea. You seem to have no problem with that though.

QTips are sold for less, often times right across the street at pharmacies. The reason hospitals charge so much for the same products is because they can. I happen to think that just because you CAN do something, that doesn't necessarily mean you SHOULD do it. Not too sure why that upsets you.

Sorry, Jennifer, I guess my last comment was not very clear.

So lets say that we determine taxi drivers can only charge $10 because of the circumstances at hand. But so many people want taxi service that some are willing to bid up the price to $20. They are waving $20 bills so that they can get the hell out before anyone else. What happens then?

Well since the market will bear a $20 price, the taxi drivers will abandon the area where the price is fixed for $10 and go to where they can make $20. All those people who had the price fixed at $10 are stranded with no taxi drivers at all.They, too would have paid the $20 to get out, but by fixing the price, they became stranded with NO taxi drivers. Price fixing makes the commodity dry up and creates black markets where the real price will be paid.

My analogy with lowering real estate commissions is this: You are asking taxi drivers to take a below market price because people are suffering. Do you think real estate agents should take a lower price because there is a housing crisis? Are you "taking advantage" by charging a full commission to someone who cannot afford their house any longer and must sell?

The government pays $300 because they are not practicing in a free market economy. If they were earning their own money instead of spending ours, they would refuse to pay $300. I do have a problem with that.

APR

2008

This hits so close to home on so many levels. I was in the car business when the refi boom first hit here in Texas and everyone I knew jumped from being a car salesman to loan officer. Now more than 3/4's of those guys are back selling cars again. I've still got some good friends still doing mortgages and selling real estate, but they're the ones that made sure they did their business right and understand the nature of the beast called the real estate market. Farewell to the ones that have left and hello to the ones that are joining the wonderful world of real estate and finance!

BTW, I know that this has nothing to do with the talk between Janet and Jennifer. It kinda made me laugh when I read my own comment about the blog and then reading the interaction between those two and then my comment. It's like being in a conversation and just talking about something out of the blue. I found it funny. Or then again, it's almost midnight so it might just seem funny! Either way... i'm laughing!

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