Conspiracy Theory #17


 

foilhelmet We've all heard of PMI.  It's Mortgage Insurance
It reduces the risk of loss to the lender in the case of default. 

In the case of default instead of the lender taking the entire loss, the purchased Mortgage Insurance steps in and covers a portion of the loss.

Who pays for the premium on mortgage insurance. 

Normally it's the borrower.

BUT WHAT IF...

What if the lender, unbeknownst to anyone, quietly purchased Mortgage Insurance to protect their position, to hedge their bets?

foilhelmet3 Take the case of a lender who's issuing Home Equity Lines of Credit or Seconds on riskier borrowers.  High Loan to Value? Stated Income?  No Problem! 

They bumped the rate just a little higher to cover the cost of a policy after the deal was closed. 

  • This wouldn't show up in Title. 
  • The Borrower would never know. 
  • The Mortgage Broker wouldn't know.  
  • Only the Lender would know.

FLASH FORWARD

Today that homeowner is in trouble.  They are behind in payments.  They owe more than what they can sell for.  They foilhelmet1are underwater, they've been struggling for months, they want to do the right thing  and a Short Sale is the best option.

The house is listed, the offers come in.  There's a $100,000 deficiency and we're asking the 2nd lender to absorb the greatest portion of the loss.  Why not.  If it goes through foreclosure they'll receive virtually nothing.  Right?

"Hi Mr. 2nd Lender,  I know you lent them $125,000 on a home equity loan a couple of years ago.  You know they are behind, you've read their hardship letter.  I've negotiated with the 1st Lender and they'll give $10,000 to settle.  How about it?  That's a whole lot better than zero.  What do you say?  Do we have a deal?"

SILENCE IS GOLDEN

foilhelmet4 Mr. 2nd Lender doesn't respond.  Or they turn down the offer.  Or they lose the package repeatedly.  Or any one of the thousand complaints we hear on a daily basis about dealing with loss Mitigation.

Might this be because Mr. 2nd. Lender holds a policy on the loan?  Does that policy have a stipulation that only pays if the home is sold through foreclosure? 

Instead of a 90 something percent loss, the lender (with the help of his insurance policy) will lose  substantially less.  Very much less! 

This cost the lender nothing - the bump in rate paid for the premiums. 

foilhelmet2

 

Unfortunately, it cost the other players plenty.  The Listing Agent, the Negotiator, the Buyers Agent, the Buyer, the Escrow Officer, and the Homeowner.

I know this isn't as exciting as Black Helicopters, Elvis, Reverse Alien Technology, Grassy Knolls, or Space Shuttles and Earthquakes.

 

 

mulder

 

 

 

Hey Scully, what do you think?

 

Active Mike

Mike "Spooky" Mueller

 
Post is included in group: Foreclosures
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34 Comments on Conspiracy Theory #17

Good food for thought.  Except it is illegal to ad anything to the borrower's loan without consent.  How did they get around that?  Because some of the borrower's are probably attorneys. loan officers, and accountants etc. that monitor their mortgage payment.  If I remember right, that is how a certain lender was caught increasing interest rates on home loans after they funded. 

04/17/2008 09:29 AM by Kathryn Tharp ~ Rancho Cucamonga Real Estate Specialist (Realtor)


My question mirrors Kathryn's above. How?

And what's with the foil heads? Will you make me a foil hat too? Something cute for Spring ;-) 

04/17/2008 09:35 AM by Portland Oregon Real Estate Broker * Jennifer Bukaty * (RE/MAX equity group, inc.)


Kathryn - They didn't add anything to the borrowers loan.  Nothing at all.  This is between the Lender and the Insurer only.  MBS, CDO's, Mortgage Pools, Derivatives, Tranches.  You can insure yourself against loss of anything. 

Even Alien Abduction.  LINK 

They didn't increase the rate after it funded, they funded at a rate that included the profit margin to pay for the premium. 

This is all legal and above board. 

 

Active Mike

04/17/2008 09:38 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


This is why I rarely show my client a short sale - it is almost impossible today to buy one - many of the agents who list them don't understand about the hardship requirements and the owners have never missed a payment.  Why don't we know more about the help the HUD may provide to reduce the owner's payment for 5 years and stay in the home?  WOuld this be just moving the problem down the road and prolonging these ugly times?

04/17/2008 09:41 AM by Mary Aguilar (John Saar Properties)


Jennifer - We were posting comments at the same time.  See above.

BTW:   It's well known that the foil keeps the Aliens from reading your thoughts.  You don't have a foil hat?  I'm not saying it works.  I'm just saying that since I started sleeping in my foil helmet I haven't been abducted (yet). 

 

Active Mike

 

04/17/2008 09:44 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Mike -- Any hard evidence that this has taken place? 

If you could prove it, this could be a huge scandal in the making!

04/17/2008 09:48 AM by Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Luxury Homes


Mary -

 "Would this be just moving the problem down the road and prolonging these ugly times?"

To the 2nd Lender this is more about minimizing the loss.  Instead of huge losses, huge write offs, they force the home into foreclosure and have a mortgage insurance claim that'll pay them much much more than if they settled in a short sale.

I'm not saying all 2nd lenders did this.   But I am saying that some probably did. 

Forget about Transparency.  There is no transparency here. 

No lender is going to announce "Hey we secretly bought MI for bunches of loans we funded.  We did the smart thing and protected our ASSets.  Oh yeah, to collect we're going to have to force the home into foreclosure.  Sorry 'bout that."

Active Mike

 

04/17/2008 09:56 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


(Working on making a foil hat)

Wow, interesting stuff Mike.  I'll have to chew on this for a bit and try not to chip a tooth...

04/17/2008 09:57 AM by Jason Sardi, Pennsylvania Mortgage Broker (First Choice Equity Group Inc.)


Eric - Sorry no evidence.  And sorry, no wrong doing either.  This would all be perfectly legal to do.

Once again this would be between the MI company and the Lender. 

As a hand model, I have my right hand insured for $750,000.   Unfortunately to collect, I'd have to mangle my hand.  That would hurt plenty.  I think I'll keep it pretty for now.

Active Mike

04/17/2008 10:03 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Hey Mike,

I just ran into this very problem this week. I have one that has this "hush hush MI policy." There is only one person in this whole deal who even knows it exists: the head of the PMI dept. Everyone else has searched their computers high & low and cannot find it. I asked for a policy inception date and number and they wouldn't give me that information. Makes me wonder when the policy was started. Could never prove it, but if they started the policy at an "opportune moment," that would be federal insurance fraud.

We'll see how this one shakes out. . . 

04/17/2008 10:23 AM by Butler Butler, GRI, AHWD--The Realty Butler, LLC (West USA Premier Properties)


This definetly explains why a lot of the short sales do not close or why the lender is playing hard ball.

04/17/2008 11:18 AM by Mike Jackson (Realty World Global)


 Butler - Hush Hush is right.  It's not going to show on any computer screen.  Loss Mitigation isn't going to know about it.  There might be a flag somewhere that says, "Before accepting any short sale on this loan you must have prior approval from Mr. X".  I'm thinking if anything, they placed the policy shortly after funding.

Mike - I don't know if it does, I don't know if it doesn't.  It certainly might (if that is the case).

 

 

Active Mike

 

04/17/2008 12:10 PM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Mike

I know for a fact that several companies had MI on pools of loans. As a lender, I always thought it was smart to do. I know you agree, but its interesting to see the tone that others are taking that this is somehow a bad thing.

Way to stir the pot today.....:)

04/17/2008 01:58 PM by Bill Nazur (Nazur Enterprises, Inc. & BAMG)


Mike - this is a conscequince I don't think anyone expected....

04/17/2008 02:16 PM by Eleanor Thorne, Cary Mortgage Loans (Meridian Residential)


Bill - Thanks!  It makes perfect business sense (for them). 

Restaurants insure themselves for loss of revenue should they experience something like an earthquake that puts them out of Biz for a while. 

James Dean was insured should he die in a car racing accident.  So was Paul Newman and Steve McQueen. 

We buy insurance to place some of the potential risk of loss on someone or something else.  We pay a premium for that insurance. 

The dealer shows is showing an Ace, you've got a Queen and a 9, want to buy insurance? 

I'd be very interested in reading that Pool Policy.  Does it cover the first __ % to go bad or does it cover them all?  It would be far cheaper to cover just the first 25%, I would imagine.  Or like a Tranch - split the liability of loss coverage into separate derivatives.  First tier is covered for 75% loss, second tier only pays 65% and so on.

Did you know I live in the shadow of the worldwide headquarters of PMI?

Headquarters
PMI Plaza
3003 Oak Road
Walnut Creek, CA 94597


PMI's slogan is  "Making risk rewarding...

Mortgage Insurance does good things.    This isn't a bash on PMI. 

It's a What if... on a very real possibility.  Unfortunately this is good business for them and them alone.  Lot's of other people are in the equation that it's not good for.

Good conversation!

 

Active Mike

 

 

04/17/2008 02:30 PM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Mike this certainly is an interesting philosophy.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear it's true.  It just seems like it should be disclosed to a buyer though.  Otherwise, it seems sneaky and underhanded.  That would make you think it's illegal too.

04/17/2008 03:37 PM by Linda Sanderson (Coldwell Banker Solano Pacific)


Mike,  Never thought of it to this extent, but can surely see your point.  I can see where the subordinate lender might wish to push foreclosure.  Interesting concept.  Thanks for putting that out there.

04/17/2008 03:42 PM by Marc Grossman, GRI - Central Florida Real Estate Specialist (Keller Williams Premier Realty)


Aloha Mike,

I think this has the makings of a true Shamalanian Horror/slash/thriller(lots of slashing here)! Unfortunately. it has the stranger than fiction smell to it. We'll your still alive and presumably your lender has'nt called in your loan yet. Maybe, just maybe... it could quite possibly be the case that it is indeed not true, but you did'nt hear it from me.

Peace,

04/17/2008 07:51 PM by Kimo Stowell (JDS Consulting Staging & Interiors)


Mike, you are a hand model? Is that your second job? Seems to me that making foil hats would be rough on your overly-insured hand.

Scully thinks it makes perfect, legal, ethical and smart sense for these HELOC originators to purchase extra insurance. They probably saw the flying saucer a mile away coming to abduct us all. They prepared. They made.....

foil hats...

and bought nice PMI packages.

I'm out of Reynolds Wrap, btw.

04/17/2008 08:50 PM by Karen Luke - Henry County Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty )


Mike, now that would be a tough pill to swallow. It's great to be aware of it happening - thanks for bringing it to the foilfront - Ha...a little bad humor!

04/17/2008 09:27 PM by Lynn Pineda - Realtor in and around Coral Springs Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty)


One more piece of the puzzle.

I tell ya this, Mike: NO MORE SHORT SALES FOR ME. I will not do them.

Why work so hard and never get paid?

Better to take a vacation and go into debt that to work hard and go into debt for it.

There are layers and layers of weirdness with all this stuff.

Interesting post, as ever. If we could still rate posts, I'd give you the highest ratings :)

Mary

04/17/2008 11:47 PM by Mary Pope-Handy, ABR, CRS, ePRO, SRES (Keller Williams Realty)


I only use tin foil for my highlights.  Positive side effect--hasn't been abducted--yet!  (Watching the skies).

04/18/2008 01:21 AM by Yolanda Hoversten - Metro East IL Real Estate (Prudential One Realty Centre)


I personally recommend heavy duty foil for those close encounters.

It would make my life easy if the banks would just say no.

04/18/2008 08:36 AM by Joey Remondino Broker, GRI, E-Pro (StoneHouse Realty Inc)


Aduction Proof

That's the problem with mixing a serious post with not so serious pictures.

That's OK.  Right?

 

Linda  - "It just seems like it should be disclosed to a buyer though.  Otherwise, it seems sneaky and underhanded.  That would make you think it's illegal too"  Did you know your insurance company also has insurance?  Reinsurance covers the potential loss of your insurance company on your claim (and many others).  It's not wrong and it's not illegal and they never told you about it. 

However in the case of a catastrophic loss (to an insurance company) there is no problem in creating the claim.  The Levee broke and the town was flooded.  Nature did it.

In this MI discussion, there is no claim until the lenders force it to become a claim.  That's a big difference.  Still, it's just a business decision. 

Marc - you are welcome!

 Kimo - I am so not a Horror fan.  But I thought "Signs" was just fabulous!  So much so that I've renamed my Daughter, Merrill.   At her softball games you can here me yelling, "Swing away Merrill !" Yes, I do torture my kid.

 Karen - I think my wife married me just for my hands.

< True X-File Fan ALERT! >       

I think we spotted the first person on AR to who can identify C.S.M. and Agent X!

"Scully thinks it makes perfect, legal, ethical and smart sense for these HELOC originators to purchase extra insurance.

 Lynn - LOL!

Mary - You are wonderful. Thanks!

 Yolanda -  Is that why my neck is so sore all the time?  (watching the skies?)

 Joey - That Heavy Duty is a good look on you!

 

 

   

 

04/18/2008 10:45 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Aloha Mike,

First off thanks for the fabulous foil fedora, I will treasure it always. It has a place of honor in my vault of shinny objects that I can't resist. I'm mesmerized by it even as I write.

 

I can only imagine you and Mad Mel driving down the freeway after throwing back a few at one of Merrill's softball games.  Your foil hats half cocked, beautifully reflecting a kaleidoscope of blue and red as the troopers close in.

Shalom,

 

PS In recognition of your superlative and informative blogging style I hereby bestow upon you with all it's rights, honors, and privlidges the Ilima Maile Lei of Excellence award.

04/19/2008 03:21 PM by Kimo Stowell (JDS Consulting Staging & Interiors)


Ooo. Count me in. I love conspiracy theories! And this one sounds completely plausible to me. But all these cone-head comment photos are making me want to hear some good old Devo! =D

04/20/2008 06:53 PM by Lisa Hill (Daytona Beach REALTORĀ®) (Adams Cameron and Company)


 Kimo - That's too funny!  Thanks!

 Lisa -  Whip it Good!

 

 

 

 

 

04/20/2008 10:22 PM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Oooo.  I'm now a pointy-headed blogger.  Who would have thunk it?  I have an outfit that'll go great with it.  Thanks, Mike!  :D

04/21/2008 04:05 PM by Yolanda Hoversten - Metro East IL Real Estate (Prudential One Realty Centre)


Yolanda - Does it look something like this?

 

       

04/22/2008 10:21 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


I only watched a few episodes of X files. Are you C.S.M? Are you Agent X?

Inquiring minds want to know.

04/23/2008 12:01 PM by Karen Luke - Henry County Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty )


Karen -  If anything I would be Mulder.  Back in the day I even tried to get the wife to dye her hair "Scully Red".  That was a No Go.

I sent out a monthly mortgage newsletter both by mail and electronically called 

That site, and that newsletter is long gone!

     

04/23/2008 12:10 PM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


Mike,

You're too kind...don't I wish I had an outfit that will look great like that on me!

 

04/25/2008 10:46 PM by Yolanda Hoversten - Metro East IL Real Estate (Prudential One Realty Centre)


That's an interesting twist.  They would have nothing to lose with the buyer essentially funding the costs of the PMI and everything to gain.  hmmm... sounds like a smart play on the part of the lenders.  I guess that begs the question of why would a lender not use this scenario to minimize their exposure to risk?

04/26/2008 12:49 AM by Fairbanks Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS - 907.699.6024 - )


Jesse - Why wouldn't they?  If they planned on pooling or selling the mortgage down the road.  In that scenario, they would be adding an additional cost and drawing away from the profit margin.  In my outside blog Mike's Minute

Jeremiah Arn said...

Mike is exactly right here, folks. I spent Wednesday in a Save Our Homes summit with about 200 state and county officials in Ohio, non-profit counselors, etc. This PMI/short sale issue is one of the biggest problems and one of the biggest secrets to the foreclosure mess.
As you can imagine, the insurance company is doing everything it can to avoid a renegotiation of claim trigger and Mr. 2nd Lender will not yield his claim to the pie or the policy.
Either PMI companies are going to crash and burn or be the government's next target (whens the last time you saw the government target an insurance company), or this crisis will not hit bottom before 2010.
Can you suggest another outcome?

 

     


 

04/26/2008 09:31 AM by Mike Mueller (Patagonia Finance)


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