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Finding the “Better-than-the-average-bear” inspector.

Questions one "COULD" ask---to find a "better-than-the-average-bear" inspector:

•1. Do you own and use a 32 foot (or longer) ladder? A negative response would mean they generally don't get on 3 story townhouse roofs---or they have it hung up on the side of their garage and enjoy remembering how they used to climb the darn thing. Or perhaps they are simply working to Inspection Association SOP's.

•2. Do you own and use "corkers?" (spiked shoes for walking on wood roofs)? A negative response to this would mean they don't walk on wood roofs---or don't know what a wood roof is. If they tell you they don't drink wine---this is NOT a good sign.

•3. Do you go in crawl spaces if there is no ground cover (plastic)? A negative response to this might mean they are a little timid or easily intimidated by "nastiness"---sorry it is just part of the job.

•4. Do you go in a crawl space with less than 18" of clearance? An adverse response to this might mean they are total wusses, or perhaps need to join the local gym.

•5. Do you take off the cover of the Electrical Panel (including all sub-panels---technically called "remote distribution panels")? A negative response to this would mean they are neglecting one of the most significant safety checks that we do as inspectors. Alternate question: Do you know what a Remote Distribution panel is? A negative response to this would mean they are not up on the latest electrical terminology.

•6. Do you use a pressure gauge on all outside faucets? A negative response to this would mean that they cannot verify that the valve is not broken/leaking inside the wall.

•7. Do you enter accessible attics? See 8

•8. Do you verify that there are insulation baffles around b-vents? An adverse response to this might be an indication that they do not enter attics (see 8).

•9. Do you go in crawl spaces that have water in them if you can get around the water? See the first half of 4.

•10. Do you use the Internet for research? A negative response to this question would be a truely auspicious sign.

•11. Do you "routinely" check the floor around toilets with a moisture meter? A negative response to this might show a willingness to provide less than "careful" service---and again, afraid of "nastiness." Alternate question: Do you use a moisture meter? A negative response to this might be indicative of the inspector being too cheap to provide this level of thoroughness.

•12. Do you use a narrative type report---with photos? Check-list type reports are not relevant in a home inspection if the buyer is interested in learning anything about the house. (I hope I haven't revealed my personal bias here)

•13. Do you do more than one inspection a day? While there may be instances where an inspector is able to do more than one inspection a day, there will always be the concern that the inspector is making part of the first inspection be the fact that he or she has to be at the next one---thus not being totally present at the first one. (I hate being in two places at once!)

•14. Do you run around the house and check to see if there is heat coming out all of the registers while the furnace is running? A negative response to this might be indicative of the inspector being in too much of a hurry. (This question is courtesy of King of the House)

•15. Do you check to make sure the gas piping is electrically bonded? A negative response to this question hopefully does not mean the inspector doesn't know what that means. (This question is courtesy of King of the House)

This is a "basic" and arbitrary list of questions that one can ask a home inspector to get a sense of what the inspector is all about. While there will always be exceptions to how these questions can be answered, a negative response to more than 3 or 4 of the questions might warrant some concern as to what you would be getting from the inspector.

Of course the "ultimate qualifier"----Do you inspect when there is Activerain?

Charles Buell

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Posted by Charles Buell, Seattle, WA, Home Inspector on 04/19/2008 09:06 AM

Comments (36)

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Originally posted at: Seattle Home Inspector's Blog: Finding the “Better-than-the-average-bear” inspector.

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36 Comments on Finding the “Better-than-the-average-bear” inspector.

APR

2008

Gees, there is a lot more to know than I thought. Thanks for the post!

I love inspectors that have a sense of humor! You qualify! Another question, at least here in Texas, is: Do you have E&O insurance?

Charles, I'm really impressed! This list is so complete. I really hate those check-list inspections myself. Did I miss one about water pressure? I lost a house sale once because the water pressure was so low the people couldn't take a decent shower in that subdivision. Or water the lawn....which is what the buyer was going to do when the water barely trickled out of the hose. Upon investigation we discovered that the builder KNEW the pressure was low; the city KNEW the pressure was low but they kept quiet about it and folks bought houses before they KNEW the pressure was low. As REALTORS none of us knew it was low in that subdivision.

Perhaps # 6 takes care of it.

Melody, I am consistently amazed at what I don't know:)

Lorrie, Thanks for the comment---I do try to bring some "lightness" to the seriousness of the home inspection---it isn't rocket science.

Barbara, I would hope there is not a single inspector anywhere that doesn't check the water pressure! LOL Perhaps I need to do a list of absurdly simple things that some inspectors don't do? Another thing regarding water pressure to be careful of is that water pressure of 45 PSI checked at ground level might be fine for a single story home, but would unlikely be adequte by the time it got to the top of the 3rd story townhouse.

Are you grading us on this? (I scored 14 out of 15.)

Bruce---no grading---looks like you would get a pretty good one:) thanks for the visit. When you going to do some blogging?

Charles

Regarding #5 on your list.

Are you familiar with 29CFR1910?

If not please read: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10135 regarding the removal of electrical panels (working on 'live' equipment).

In a nutshell you are NEVER allowed to work on or near live electrical in a residential application.

Does your workers compensation cover you for this type of work?

Mike, this comes up now and then, and I suppose it might be an issue in some jurisdictions and states, but most likely only for the inspectors that have emplyees. If you look through the link you provided you will see that Washington isn't on the list of states falling in line with the regulations. These regulations are largely related to "emplyees"----I wouldn't even go there as an inspector. Opening electrical panels would be the least of my worries:) Inspectors have been taking off electrial panel covers for more than 20 years and the NEC and OSHA really hasn't had anything to say about it except as regards "employees." Perhaps it is because we find so much work for electricians:)

Charles, thanks for saving me the effort in responding. I often wonder how the HI companies with employees get around this, especially after they do their annual electrical safe work practice training req'd by Sub-Part S where this prohibition is clearly stated.

Charles

This was just info.

I believe that electricians are not allowed to remove the panel cover either. Why? All inspectors have had wires breaker jump out at them.

IMHO the main should be shut off before removing a panel cover.

There are between 5 and 10 electrical accidents a day in this country. Costing 8-10 million $$$ per incident.

Most have been 'lucky' that nothing has happened.

Again I will ask if your clients are near the panel and something happens to them does you insurance cover them? Mine does.

If the home where to burn down does your insurance cover it? Mine does.

I say NO. Most have E&O not general liability insurance. I do.

Does you insurance cover performing unlicensed work? I am licensed.

???

If you are a LLC, or corp., are you not an employee?

Mike, as an owner and officer of my corporation I am not subject to L&I rules. In fact one can "apply" to be covered---and this is one good reason not to. What do you mean by "electricians are not allowed to remove the panel cover either?" How are they going to work on it? As long as the inspector is trained in taking off the covers I see no safety reason not to.

1910.2(c)

"Employer" means a person engaged in a business affecting commerce who has employees, but does not include the United States or any State or political subdivision of a State;

This is a fantastic post and something I am going to bookmark. Going to share it with my home inspector as well ... the vast amount of which, he does do.

Let us for get about the LAW for a minute.

As both an Electrical Contractor OH. Lic. #26286 (and I am listing this because I am required by law to do so) http://www.yourhomesok.com/oclib.htm and an Electrical Safety Inspector I turn the power OFF to an electrical panel before removing the cover.

WOw....This is a long list and interesting but very relivent questions. What is the picture to the left?

Sean Allen

Great list Charlie. I know the high level of work you do and it is exceptional. I also know people you have inspected for. I know that, if everyone in the field knew as much about all these different areas as you do, there would sure be a lot fewer homeowners out there with roofing, plumbing, electrical, structural, heating and wood destroying organism problems.

Exemplary list of things to look for in an inspector. Even if an inspector does not meet everything on the list, if he or she meets a high percentage of the items, a client is probably getting a pretty good inspector. My experience is that enforcing merely codes or merely standards by a national organization can lead to marginal information.

Charles,

A good list but I have to disagree on the first two points. Most Inspectors I know do not own a 32' ladder and unless you go out with a partner a 32' ladder is difficult to handle safely. I should qualify that I am a firefighter and have qualified on ladders up to 100'. A better qualifier is "Do you walk on roofs to inspect them or what is your preferred method of inspection roofs"?

Your second point about corkers. I typically don't walk on wood shakes. In most cases the roofs are older and the shakes brittle. Even carefully walking on them will split them. Second have you ever stepped on one to find out it wasn't nailed in? Corker won't help you. I have and the only thing that saved me was a nearby plumbing vent. Does not having these shoes make me less of an inspector? When I have to look my ladder and ultra zoom camera gets me what I need to.

//Rick

Rick Bunzel, CRI
Pacific Crest Inspections

NPSAR Affiliate of the Year 2006-2007
WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
360-588-6956
Fax 360-588-6965
Toll Free 866-618-7764

Rick,

I have a hunch that Charlie will give you a pass on the first two. I am afraid I flunk there too, except I do pass part two of qualifier two. That is, I thought corkers came from the top of wine bottles. I like wine so that erases my initial failure with one and two as I read it. Now, how about wine before handling a 32 foot ladder and before strapping on the corkers. Let me inspect those high roofs -- now!

Derek, thanks for the comment

Sean, thanks for the comment. What, no guesses as to what the picture is? It is actually a piece of a picture I took of a rusting Vietnam era helicopter landing pad I took at one of the light houses on my recent sailing trip. Here is the whole picture, rusting

Steven, thanks for the pat on the back---now I have a back ache to go with my head ache:)

Rick, I hear you, but I have never seen a 3 story townhouse I could see enough of the roof from the eave and certainly not from the ground. My main question is that if home inspectors don't claim this territory, are we going to be deferring it to the roofing contractors? I have been wrestling 32' and longer ladders for more than 35 years---they can be safety handled alone---with experience. I know inspectors that don't do 3 story townhouse because of the height and ladder issues. That could add up to a lot of lost work. As far as the corkers go, all roofers wear them and it is the accepted means of walking on wood roofs---and yes, just because you are wearing corkers you still have to be very careful on roofs. An un-nailed asphalt shingle will slide out on you as well. I think that "not" walking on wood roofs is one of the things that has been mistakenly put across by the Associations and weak SOP's

Steve, you slid in there while I was posting. I figured you would opt for the wine bottle. Did you ever see that guy stand the 32 foot ladder on end and then he climbs one side and comes down the other all the wile balancing the thing? Lets see you do that with your wine corks on:)

APR

2008

Charles,

Don't get me wrong, the preferred way to inspect roofs is to get right on them but I am not going to risk my safety just to get there. Any inspector with a couple of hundred of inspections has had situations where they know they are in an unsafe situation, that familiar oh shit pucker factor. Personally I want to go home at night and don't relish the thought injuries from a fall or hanging from a gutter trying to figure out how to land softly. We all know of inspectors who have had falls and the financial hardship that they face while they recover, if they recover to inspect again.

You have my respect for throwing a 32 footer around. Climbing it without someone footing/stabilizing it is a brave thing to do. In the fire department the only time its permitted is when a life is on the line.

I used to walk on wood shake several years ago but I had a seller claim that I caused damage to his roof and wanted me to pay to fix it. A roof gave him a quote for the issues I found and several more. He wanted me to pay the difference because I walked on it. Lets just say it got ugly and it was a lesson learned. Today If I suspect issues I will document them to the best of my ability and get a roofer who has the proper safety equipment involved.

//Rick

Rick Bunzel, CRI
Pacific Crest Inspections

NPSAR Affiliate of the Year 2006-2007
WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
360-588-6956
Fax 360-588-6965
Toll Free 866-618-7764

Good post Charles. I pretty much do all of the above except own a pair of corkers and get on wooden roofs.

Rick,

I know the one about walking the roof and claiming the roof was "perfect" before the darn inspector trashed it. Yeah right but controversy goes enough with this job that it is frustrating if you are accussed of damaging something.

Steve, I like to walk in the tracks of the previous corker---gosh it is hard to get those points to line up:)

The whole question of ladders is an interesting one to me. I know that many inspectors use folding or telescoping ladders. Not me. In my thirty years of building, prior to inspecting, most of the injuries I saw, and all that I suffered, were from ladder issues. I don't use a 32 footer (I've actually never seen a three story townhouse in Bellingham), but I do carry a heavy duty 24 footer. it gets me on the roof of most two story structures.

Another question to ask is: Does your inspector pull aside insulation to look closely at all drains, especially those pesky two part bathtub drains? Amazing how many of those leak but don't show it on the insulation.

Hi David, I see about one of those 3 story townhouses per week here----and more going up every day. They are hugely popular. I agree with your assessment of ladders and you can never be too careful with them. I like your question to add to the list---we are lucky in this state because we are "required" to do it---but lots of inspectors don't do it.

Charles, you must have "hit a nerve" with this post! Goodness! Lots of comments. On 3 story townhouses, we have none but when you say you see 3 per week are those single family townhouses or multi-family?

Barbara, I see about "one" a week---they are usually two unit townhouses---sometimes four. Usually they are in clusters of several such units.

APR

2008

The pic looked like a burnt end of a 12 gauge romex wire.

AUG

2008

I guess I fell part of the list. I do not own a 32 foot ladder. When I need one two years ago I rented it.

The wood roof I have seen have had 2 or more layer of asphalt shingles on them so I don't own a pair of corkers.

The rest of the items I do along with more.

There are difference in each area of inspections what is need everyday is different in some areas.

Phillip, the list was never meant to be an "absolute"----just to be thought provoking and perhaps point out some discrepancies among inspectors. Sounds like you get a big ladder when you need one:)

FEB

Charles

Great post. Exceeding the standards of practice in home inspections, in the end provides a better service to our clients. While finding out as much about the home benefits the home buyers, it also protects us from future claims of negligence.

However, I don't offer the inspection of roofs that require a 32' foot ladder. 3rd story townhome/ condominum roofs are well beyond the scope of what I offer my clients. While I own a full size truck that can haul that size of a ladder around, it is not used for my inspection business, and I have never seen a townhome parking lot that I could park it in. (full size, quad cab, long bed....just about as long as a limo) ...... I have a challenge parking my little Ranger in most townhome developments.

Beyond that I agree with most everything you posted. For instance accessing the crawl space under homes. Several years ago I had a listing agent call me, who was looking for an inspector who could perform a crawl space inspection only. She explained that the buyer had hired an inspector, and he inspected everything but under the home. He cited that the crawl space access size did not meet minimum standards, and therefore he would not inspect the space.

So, with reservations, I agreed with the caveat that I would see if I could even fit. I met with the buyer and agent at the property, and sure enough the access was smaller, but not as small as I had envisioned. It was not like I had to squeeze into the access either.

Of course upon entering you could see that crawl space had several major issues. The idea had crossed my mind that maybe the inspector could see the mayhem in the space from the access, and just said "Sorry, I can't fit".

Insulation falling down, evidence of past flooding, cats and other critters had once occupied the space, there were plumbing leaks, and was some wood destroying organism damage (for starters).... It was a pretty inhospitable environment. But that is what we are paid to find for our clients.

Harold, thanks for the comment and resurrecting this old post:)

MAR

ASHI and NAHI and InterNachi all describe an inspection as being a visual assessment of a property. Several states with licensing also stress the visual nature of the inspections.

As such, there are few tools required to perform a home inspection. If other inspection services are being provided, then those tools might be used. Thus, a normal home inspection does not need a moisture meter. However, if the inspector provides additional inspection elements to include a more detailed moisture analysis, then the moisture meter would be appropriate.

Typical tools for a home inspection are a ladder, a screwdriver (or two), maybe a cordless drill (to remove fasteners from electrical panel covers and such), an electrical tester, a flashlight, and a digital camera -- document, document, document.

There might be one or two other tools. But, that's about it.

MAR

Andrew, thanks for reviving this old post:) I would suggest that the "minimum" standards of the associations are put in place to "supposedly" protect the inspector----not the consumer. It actually does not protect the inspector and does more to promote mediocrity and keep us from becoming a real profession. While today's inspectors may not be required to carry moisture meters----they certainly will in the near future in my opinion.

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Charles Buell, Seattle, WA, Home Inspector

Seattle, WA

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Charles Buell Inspections.com

Address: Seattle, Shoreline, Everett, Lynnwood, Bothel, Kirkland, Bellevue, Mercer Island, Edmonds, Renton, King County, 17123 22nd Ave NE, Shoreline (Seattle), WA, 98155

Cell Phone: (206) 478-7371

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My blog is intended to provide information related to home inspections in Seattle, surrounding communities and anyone else interested. Sometimes I will provide information that has nothing to do with home inspections. Enjoy!

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