Searching for Long Island waterfront homes on MLS for an upcoming post about where these homes are located, and what price ranges they fall in to, resulted in a very disturbing discovery.  It seems that no matter which direction I turn lately, I seem to find unscrupulous agents and brokers that practice deception when marketing their listings.  This is true in many ways, but today's discovery only lends credence to the mistrust that many have of REALTORS® in general.

 

For those of you that are not familiar with Long Island, the name (Long Island) accurately describes our geography.   While Long Island is much longer than it is wide, it is not so narrow that all of the homes are waterfront property.  Being a native Long Islander that has lived and worked in several places on the Island, I am knowledgeable about the areas that are near the water on both the north and south shores.  I also know which towns are situated in the middle of the island.

 

 As I spent quite a bit of time doing research for the upcoming Long Island waterfront homes post, I kept coming across homes that most certainly could not be considered "waterfront" without telling a blatant lie.  In some cases, the listing agent could get away with using the term "waterfront" because the home is in a community with man-made ponds.  However, all waterfront is not created equally; some waterfront is considered very desirable, while other waterfront is more of a technicality because there is a small pond, or shallow creek running behind the home.

 

Our MLS recently made vast improvements to the mapping system by changing over to Microsoft Virtual Earth.  With the click of a mouse, you can zoom in to most neighborhoods and get a fairly close "bird's eye" view.  As I came across towns that are nowhere near the water, I used this tool to find that the only water that many of these homes were in front of were swimming pools, and not even that much in some cases.

 

You can imagine how someone searching for waterfront homes would feel if they were unfamiliar with a particular area, and they arrived to find no water anywhere in the vicinity of the home.  This is a terrible trick that some agents are using to get their listings to show up in more MLS searches.  It is also very short-sighted, not to mention, totally unethical. 

 

 Who benefits from this kind of blatant deception?  As far as I can tell, the only one that has anything to gain by using this technique is the listing agent that can show homeowners that they are generating traffic to the home.  The problem is that it is artificial traffic that will NEVER produce an actual buyer.

 

Who gets hurt by this kind of blatant deception?  A lot of people...buyers who waste their time going to see these homes under false pretenses, sellers who receive angry buyers and agents to their homes, agents that waste their valuable time seeing a home that should never have come up in the search to begin with, and the real estate profession as a whole due to guilt by association.

 

We, as REALTORS®, are required to take ethics courses to maintain our good standing with the NAR (National Association of REALTORS).  Unfortunately, it seems that a number of REALTORS® take no stock in the lessons learned from these ethics courses, and continue to act in a dishonest way instead of working to improve the overall image of our profession.

 

                                                           

 

 
Post is included in group: Realtors®
Post is included in group: RE/MAX Active Rain Bloggers
Post is included in group: Almost Anything Goes
Post is included in group: Dedicated Bloggers

65 Comments on Swimming Pools Do NOT Equal Waterfront Property!

APR
20
2008
285,300 Points 4 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I'll refrain from comments about what ends up in MLS listings, but wanted to let you know I enjoyed reading your post this morning.

 

 

3:44am • #1
227,104 Points 22 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

We have the same issue here with views... mountain and city light views are very desirable and we have people putting those into the remarks all the time.  The catch?  You have to climb the spruce tree in the back yard to get a glimpse of the city lights.  Half the time the are trying to peddle overpriced listings anyway.. thus the need to resort to such BS. 

BTW, I have a hot tub in my backyard... do I have waterfront property?  :)

5:27am • #2
114,368 Points Hit Router
Your are right. Listing a home like that does not benefit anyone.
5:42am • #3
832,494 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Funny.  This reminds me of the home advertised with a "pond" nearby.  I showed the property because my buyers had visions of ducks on a "pond", walking around the "pond", fish in a "pond".  Not a whole lot you can do with a sediment control pond with a chain link fence surrounding it. 

Then there is the cottage advertised as "waterfront".  The water is in the concrete culvert storm management system ditch behind the property. 

The aerial view maps are a lot of help in verifying "waterfront" conditions.

 

6:31am • #4
427,303 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Adam - Agreed! I have seen this a lot myself down here in MASS. Waterfront does not equal a marsh or mosquitoes!
6:46am • #5
570,102 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I've seen it too, waterfront listed and it backs up to a man made drainage in the sub. I don't like it because if a  Realtor is searching for a client is searching for water-front it comes up. I can delete them at first but after I set up the search is comes in when a new one is listed. 

One MLS near us has different categories for waterfront, all sports lake, no wake, name of lake, pond, canal. It is a great feature. 

7:17am • #6
187,851 Points 8 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
We see this with views as well from time to time.  I just don't understand who they think they are kidding.  Do they think that the buyer that they just annoyed with wasting their time & gas is actually going to buy it after that?
7:20am • #7
477,426 Points 41 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
I sell a lot of condos in Belmont Bay a community in Prince William County VA.  It is amazing how many of the agents list waterview for condos that I know are on the front of a building and have no view or what we like to refer to as the long neck view.  If you stretch your neck out as far as it will go, turn to to the left and press it up against the window you can see a sliver of water.  Not a waterview my fellow agents!  I have a view of the waterhole on the 18th green does that constitute a waterview?  Hmmmm!
7:41am • #8
408,296 Points 74 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Adam,

The bottom line is if it's waterfront then you are looking at it from your property...if its water view you have to tilt your head to the left or to the right..if it is not in plain view n the back then it ain't water...that stuff should be removed.

8:14am • #10
423,641 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Adam,

The good issues you raise underscore the great need for an industry to 'police itself' before it descends to the level of pond scum!!! Thanks,   Fran

8:34am • #11
123,405 Points 13 Featured Posts Outside Blog

That's as bad as some of these clowns down here who hang out windows by their toenails to snap a picture of a Gulf of Mexico view.  You see the picture in MLS and then you get to the condo and think....hmmm how did that guy get at least 10 feet away from the exterior wall to get that picture?  Of course they do this because they know as soon as you get inside the condo, the importance of the view will disappear from your wish list and you will fall madly in love with the condo that was misrepresented and buy it! :)

What's up with Miss Clementine? She hijacked one of my posts today too!

8:44am • #12
Localism Sponsor
Adam, we have a similar issue in Minnesota, the Land of 10,000 Lakes.  "Waterfront", "lake front", "water view", "lake  view"  terms are "stretched".  Same with presenting 4 bedrooms in the bedroom count while only 3 are conforming.  I'm glad you brought this issue to light.  Consumers deserve and expect truthful and reliable information.  And, we need to provide it for them.
9:07am • #13
596,830 Points 80 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I call it MLS entries in CRAYON!  That is the same as an agent that calls a detention pond 'waterfront!'  A total waste of time!
9:22am • #14
130,468 Points Localism Sponsor
On our MLS we can report a violation and the MLS will contact that agent.
10:23am • #15
134,134 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Adam - good post.  Also, here in Florida is "lake front"..... yet in private remarks the agent may say lake is currently "DRY"....so is this "lakefront???".   Food for thought.
10:24am • #16
218,912 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Listing a home like that ? Wow ! I have now heard it all ! Great post Adam ! Glad it was featured !
10:28am • #17
521,210 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hmmm by that very definition my home is sitting on waterfront property in the DESERT.  We have that same problem here with "city views" and "mountain views".  They may have them if you get on a stepstool and look out the top corner of the master bedroom window.

We also have problems with square footage, bedroom # and area getting manipulated.  It is EXTREMELY frustrating!!

10:33am • #18
You should file a complaint to your mls about that problem, maybe they will do something about it.
10:37am • #19
832,494 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Looks like you too got spammed by Miss Clementina Marie Giovannetti

She's been a busy Beaver this morning.

10:38am • #20
140,566 Points 29 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Adam,

Great points.  I would be a very disheartened buyer if I went to look at a listing I thought was going to be waterfront and ended up being all washed up.  Not just a matter of ethics, but just plain not a matter of common sense or good business sense.

P.S.  Did you catch the UFC fight last night. Though Serra did not remain the Welter Weight champ  his class spoke volumes.  St-Pierre is just a whole toned machine- gotta admire his athletecism, holly smokes:-)

Have a great day.

10:46am • #21
134,240 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Adam,

This stuff benefits no one, why waste everyones time....:)

10:48am • #22
1 Featured Post
Our MLS vendor, Rapattoni, has the option to put a "Report Listing Violation" link on every listing.  Put in the wrong info on purpose or on accident, it will be corrected and you will be sanctioned. 
11:08am • #23
Such a shame and a waste of our time and Buyers' time.  I often wonder why they do this as the truth will be evident if someone goes to view the listing anyway.
12:00pm • #24
Our MLS(Solid Earth) has a link to send to the listing agent (anonymously) and discrepancy we may see out there. The board receives a copy also. It gives the L/R a chance to change the information without having to be fined.
12:40pm • #25
180,843 Points Outside Blog
Our MLS(Solid Earth) has a link to send to the listing agent (anonymously) and discrepancy we may see out there. The board receives a copy also. It gives the L/R a chance to change the information without having to be fined.
12:45pm • #26
381,870 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Adam: Great post... this reminds me of a listing I once pulled up on our local MLS. In one of the photos there was a pond out back. What the agent failed to mention was the pond was on the next property.
1:30pm • #27
140,803 Points 13 Featured Posts
I don't see a lot of blatant misrepresentations like that out here.  I think our standards for agents entry in real estate are some of the harder ones.  That is pretty bad.
1:38pm • #28
165,236 Points
LOL.  Another reason buyers and sellers need good agents.  One thing I tell my customers early on, "One of the things I look at when I look at a listing is the listing agent's name/company.  It can tell me a lot about what I will really find in the property."
1:43pm • #29
Here at the beach we have "keyhole" views...anything to say the word "view"! LOL
2:50pm • #30
255,442 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Adam, you are so right about the deceptions. Selling by the water is my specialty and a creek or pool doeth NOT constitute a waterfront. I find this a lot with our own MLS. Although, I can't blame the MLS since it's the person inputting the information.

I have recently been finding the term "free-standing" within my home searches. What the heck is that? Agents are placing this term on manufactured housing so I still have to cull through the list after I maximize it!

Agents act like maybe we can sell a house and not mention that it's manufactured!!!

I guess a freestanding waterfront means a mobile home with an above ground pool! Ha.

Thanks for the great post. Later in the rain~Deb

2:55pm • #31

GREAT POST Adam.  I know it's time to UNSUBSCRIBE to a blog when I start reading a blog like this and other agents blasting the comments saying that we're "violating COE" by talking badly about other agents.  HEY...THIS IS A COP BROTHERHOOD HERE...I can't stand these agents that waste my dang time and ESPECIALLY when my buyer client is the one telling me they found this one and that one they want to look at and IT'S NOT ON THE WATER!!!!!

Just as bad as when it's a Patio Home and they don't identify as such...How am I suppose to find it?

I think I'll follow one suggestion above and start sending an email to the MLS service about each one I find.  Maybe THEY can train these Chimps entering this stuff.

4:20pm • #32
344,262 Points Outside Blog
Ha ha, if swimming pools equaled waterfront property then Arizona would have a LOT of waterfront property. No I think not. We love it when people put in that there is a view, and all you end up seeing is a view of another house -- you have to walk down the street to see mountains. Guess that is "walk to view".
8:03pm • #33
229,511 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Waterfront for swimming pools!  That is hilarious!  What does this accomplish anyway?  The buyer shows up and finds a non-waterfront lot and storms away in disgust.  How does this help sell the property?  We have a canal system in Scottsdale which I have seen used to abuse the search criteria in the same manner.  While it is nicely improved in certain areas with walking paths, etc, it certainly does not constitute "waterfront."  As you noted, Adam, it denotes a wider problem in the industry.  Unscrupulous advertising is often indicative of an agent who may lack the compunction to adhere fully to ethical standards in other aspects of the job as well.  They intentionally enter properties into the wrong area to pick up greater traffic, attempt to game the DOM stats by incorrectly entering data, etc.  There is no end to the creativity.  If only that effort went into legitimate marketing efforts, there would be no need for all of the shenanigans.  Great post, my friend.  Give me a call if you are interested in this great oceanfront property I have listed in Phoenix!
8:09pm • #34
237,710 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

New Jersey is one of the only states that doesn't require continuing education.   It is very sad and should be a required yearly just like ethics....   I think they need to go hand and hand.

The old school.... hand shake.. turn their heads ... agents need to anti up to todays standards.

great post.

9:05pm • #35
121,298 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I can not imagine calling a home with a pool, waterfront. Hmmmm. This is definitely deceptive, counter productive, and further leads to OUR overall appearance as lying sleaze! I just don't see why they feel the need to do this. Getting a lot of visitors to your listing is great, as long as the listing is what they were looking for. Otherwise, you're wasting everyone's time.
9:30pm • #36
1 Featured Post
Well written Adam. Some agents are quite liberal in their property descriptions. Buyers hate to be duped and it reflects poorly on all of us.
11:04pm • #37
I get angry when"professionals" pull stunts like that.  I hope you post enlightens some agents and raises standards.  I truly think Active Rain will raise the consciousness of the real estate community with posts like yours.  Some agents just need to hear from ethical people b/c they might not have had ethical role models.  Excellent points and I hope they're well taken by agents everywhere.
11:38pm • #38
125,809 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Great blog, it's deceptions like these that create consumers' mistrust toward real estate professionals. Plus, once the other agents came to the  open house and see what's really going on, they won't do business with this agent.
11:42pm • #39

Great Post!

As an appraiser I see many times where properties are misrepresented on the MLS.  I have even seen appraisers do the same thing on their reports. It is a just plain poor service to the client and public.

I live in Georgia where we have a lots creeks, rivers, marshes, ponds, lakes and oceanfront.  Many are private and public.

It depends on the size of the water and many other factors to be considered true waterfront.

One key factor would be if it is large enough for recreational boating and skiing.

Not all waterfront properties are created equal.  The view of the water and location on the water makes all the difference as well.

This is what is traditional or typical  in my market area.

Is the property directly leading to the water? (Lakefront or Waterfront)

Is it Main Lake View or Cove View?

Is it a Point Lot?

How much water frontage does it have?

Is it Lake View Only, Lake Access with or without a view of water or Off Water?

Lake View means it has a view of the water but property does not lead directly to the water.

Lake Access means it has a deeded access right to the water. (With or without a view)

Off Water means very close to the water no deeded access but may or may not have HOA rights to common area to the water.

I live on a lake that is 15,330 acres with 417 miles of shoreline.  I have 102 ft of waterfront, a seawall, dock & boathouse with a main lake view.  This is what we call waterfront or lakefront. Of, course there could be other factors such as no improvements.

If this was a 5 acres lake it would not be called waterfront or lakefront.  It would be listed as a house that has a lake. I would make adjustments on the report  for the lake.  It would be like making an adjustment for having a pool in your backyard.

Retaining ponds, creeks, water sheds, etc. would not be considered waterfront.

It can be confusing, but; if common sense is used and it is known what is typical for your market that is what should be reported on the MLS.  If it is not clear what to list, call an appraiser ask how will the property be classified on the appraisal report.

I hope my comments will help clear some issues. 

11:43pm • #40
APR
21
2008

You know...using VIDEOS for virtual tours pretty much resolves all these issues...IF you have something worth showing, surely you'll have it in your video tour.  For example, a listing I have in Little Rock overlooking the "River & Mountains"....ok....it does....the VIDEO shows that.  Below is my AR MLS Post on it...however, I sold it in 7 days but it still is more powerful that "words" or "black hole pictures" lol

http://activerain.com/blogsview/451120/RIVER-VIEW-MOUNTAIN-VIEW

5:35am • #41
Adam, we have the same problem with both waterfront and waterviews...waterfront can be at the end of a cove with essentially no water in front, no dock and no views.  Waterveiws are usually seasonal so when the trees are green you can't see the lake at all!
7:18am • #42
290,103 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I'm just happy to see a listing put into the correct area.

There is a huge amount of ignorance, accidentally and on purpose, as to what does and does not constitute true waterfront property.

We have a lot of great lakes in our area which are very desirable but some of our more creative Realtors seem to be able to create their own waterfront.

7:59am • #43
135,292 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog
There was a home in my neighborhood a year or so ago that was listed by an out-of-area agent. The house backs to a main road and our neighborhood has no ponds or lakes, but does have a few retention areas (none of which are near this house). The agent marked it in the MLS as having lake rights. Hmmm...maybe because the house is located in the town of Lake Zurich? Crazy! She should have done her homework, and at the very least, the client should have caught it and questioned the agent. Good post, Adam. 
8:04am • #44
160,647 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
We are lucky to have a button to simply "click" on our MLS to report any errors on the listing. They contact the agent, and if it is not corrected, they are fined.....
9:43am • #45
219,211 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I don't really understand why agents do that! myabe they think they don't have to be honest about what they put in MLS???  It is very frustrating!
10:02am • #46
654,099 Points 108 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

What about a koi pond?  Would this qualify as waterfront? 

But seriously, I also can't stand misrepresentation of facts in the MLS.

10:04am • #47
Outside Blog

Hi Adam,

Good post.   I have come across the retention pond "waterfront" descriptions.  If one does not know beforehand, looking out and seeing a drain basin w/ a fountain in it surrounded by a fence, only welcomes disappointment.

-Mark

10:05am • #48
I have never understood why agents will mislead everyone by not telling it how it is.  All it does is waste everyones time.
11:06am • #49
362,027 Points 23 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Amen to that!  We have a hotel in town, which shall remain unnamed.....that advertising as waterfront.........people arrive with their boats and yachts only to find out its a little man made pond with ducks and a water fountain........it sure cheeses them off.......and frankly I find it embarassing that our community has a place that does that - as for residential listings - same story.....and yes!  I have seen a 'koi' pond described as waterfront......geesh
12:15pm • #50
302,189 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
A good post for MLS ISSUES ... we have a correctio button for these listings ... one clidk and the agent is soon contacted and the listing corrected.
5:02pm • #51
183,617 Points 19 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Adam...What does your MLS allow? 

When we are on our computer and see something in a listing that needs to be corrected we have a means to immediately report it.  First I call the agent giving them the benefit of the doubt that it was an mistake (even when I really thinking it might not have been) and then report it if it is not corrected.

We are the ones that need to police our MLS the best we can.

Good luck,

Kathleen

6:26pm • #52
APR
22
2008
Enjoyed the comments, and certainly am weary of sketchy descriptions.   
12:28am • #53
643,741 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Adam- This does not help anyone not even the listing agent. I think the agents that use this tactic just don't have a clue that everyone gets hurt by this misleading waterfront stuff. 
1:23am • #54
270,988 Points 41 Featured Posts Outside Blog

HI EVERYONE:  Thank you all for your comments.  It seems that we are all on the same page here.  While this post was about misleading people about waterfront homes, I guess it got featured because it is really about misleading people in general.  This is a practice that I abhor, and I know that most of you do as well.  Everytime that one REALTOR uses misleading tactics, the rest of the profession suffers from guilt by association, and it's not fair. 

Many of you have mentioned that your MLS has a mechanism to report these types of things, but unfortunately, ours does not.  I will be e-mailing this post, with all of the comments, to my MLS in the hopes that they will get some ideas on adding features that allow for us to "police" the MLS, since there is no way for the local real estate board to handle it on their own.

I happened to catch a lot of these at one time because I was working on gathering data for an upcoming post about waterfront properties.  Having lived on Long Island for most of my life, I am familiar with which towns are near water, and which ones aren't.  There are only a handful of lakes and rivers here, which is why I used the Microsoft Virtual Earth maps to see if this was the case for homes that are not on either the north or south shore.

I know that water views are constantly misleading, and many of you mentioned this.  Of course there is usually some angle that you can see the water from, but it's not always a practical angle.  However, there is no debating waterfront, so this is just blatant deception.  If you walk your property lines and you hit water, then you have waterfront property.  If not, then you don't.

Unfortunately, the people that spend time reading posts on Active Rain and most likely the ones that are just as mad about this as I am.  Those that are misleading people are likely not taking the time to do something as cutting edge as blogging.

Thanks again for all of your input.  It is greatly appreciated. 

 

6:41am • #55
1 Featured Post
Great post & thread, Adam.  The word that comes to mind is TACKY.  Setting up a potential buyer for disappointment...tsk tsk tsk.  But it's always reassuring to know there are PLENTY of awesome agents out there, versus the less scrupulous!  
11:17am • #56
Adam you are so right all it does is create angry buyers, and Realtors wasting time. It does not benefit anyone
11:39am • #57
257,185 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

"While Long Island is much longer than it is wide, it is not so narrow that all of the homes are waterfront property."

That's a hoot!!!

3:39pm • #58
APR
23
2008
If I can't see water from the home then it isn't waterfront. I don't like getting the information for my boss to find out it wasn't what it said it was.
9:01pm • #59
APR
24
2008
Localism Sponsor
Adam, I sell a lot of waterfront property in Northern Illinois and always run across the same kind of thing.  Many agent put properties in as waterfront when they ae backing to ponds, and it is a lot to sift through when looking for the true waterfronts.  I have not yet see a home with a pool listed that way, though, now THAT is "creative".  Actually, I do not see the point in them doing that, I agree that it only brings false traffic and frustates the buyers looking for real waterfront properties. 
7:34am • #60

Smith Mountain Lake-Waverly

Does this qualify for Waterfront and a Pool!

10:37pm • #61
APR
25
2008
Glenda....ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!  Yes, I'd say that qualifies.
5:30am • #62
Adam, Your correct in being upset. Certainly a dissapointment to the buyers and really hurting the seller because it leaves a bad taste in the agents mouth of that home. I come across the phrase "finished basement" just as often and only to find a piece of carpet thrown on the floor.. GRRRR!
11:31am • #63
APR
28
2008
417,313 Points 48 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Adam,

As usual, I'm late to the party, but congratulations on your Feature!  Truthfulness evades some folk, doesn't it?

Mike in Tucson

6:10am • #64
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Many agents put in our MLS that a home has a basement when it is split-level home. I feel your frustration.

8:39am • #65
MAY
03
2008
Actually, I think that there are more cases of ignorance than deception.  Thinking back to some of our recent political fiascos, one wonders if the person is stupid or crooked.  Neither one is a very comforting thought.  If brokers took responsibility for the actions of their agents, there would be recourse in a situation like this, but............
1:11pm • #66

Leave a response…



(optional)
What does the graphic say?
 
Rainmaker_large

Adam Waldman - Long Island REALTOR®

Hauppauge, NY

More about me…

Westcott Group Real Estate Company

Cell Phone: (631) 357-2036

Email Me

Long Island Real Estate and Relocation Specialist. Please read my blog for tips on how to sell your home for the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time, general real estate advice and consultation on out-of-state relocations. View Adam Waldman's profile on LinkedIn <!-- Start of StatCounter Code -->
javascript hit counter
<!-- End of StatCounter Code --> site statistics


Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog

Find NY real estate agents and Hauppauge real estate on ActiveRain.