Real Estate Blog - Hot Water in the Toilet. Oh My!! (Buyers and Sellers Beware.)

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Hot Water in the Toilet. Oh My!! (Buyers and Sellers Beware.)

Written by:
Darleen McCullen, REALTOR®, Broker
Keller Williams Realty
Phone: 919.454.8864
Email: darleen@darleenmc.com

As a Buyer, what would you do if you purchased a home and later discovered that there was hot water in the toilet?

As a Seller, would you feel that you even would have to disclose this Buyer - because after all, they will probably have a home inspection, right?

Well...

What I'm about to tell you is a TRUE STORY - and the results may surprise you.

I know someone who purchased a property and the first weekend they moved into the home, they found that there was hot water in the toilet. Yes, you read it correctly!

Apparently, the hot and cold water lines were crossed during construction - and the Seller never requested that the Builder to correct the problem.

The property was approximately 6 years old - and before purchasing, the Buyers had a home inspection to determine if there were any problems with the structure. Hot water in the toilet is NOT one of the required things on the home inspectors' list of items for which to check.

When the Buyer flushed the toilet, there was actually steam coming up from the bowl!

Now...I won't go into details about HOW the Buyer figured out there was HOT WATER in the toilet - but I'll allow you to use your imagination.

But...

Once the "issue" was discovered, the Buyer phoned the Seller and said something to the effect of, "I'm sure you didn't know about this, but there's hot water in the master bathroom toilet, but I wanted to let you know. I'm planning to call a plumber on Monday to see what could be done about it since it'll surely be a problem if/when I go to sell the property later."

Seller's response: "Yes, we knew about it. But it was that way when we moved in. When we called a plumber, he said it would be $2,000 to fix it, so we didn't. It's your problem now."

WHAT???

Oh NO!

Long story short...

The Buyer called a plumber who said this was a problem - and the porcelain toilet could crack or burst, although it hadn't thus far. Also, the hot water had caused rusted toilet parts - and the toilet had to be rebuilt.

The Buyer paid for the hot and cold water lines to be switched, as well as to fix the rusted toilet parts.

The Seller refused to reimburse the Buyers - so the Buyer took the Seller to Small Claims Court in North Carolina and WON!! When the Seller refused to pay up, the Buyer threatened to place a lien on the Sellers' current home. The Seller eventually paid up - with interest.

The moral of this story is...

Sellers DISCLOSE everything that you think may be a problem. And just because "It was that way when we purchased the house" may not hold up in Court. And...
Buyers you have RIGHTS if you feel that something wasn't disclosed to you. There's no guarantee, of course, that you'll win in court, but it's your right if you can't work it out with the Seller.

Question for all the REALTORS®:

If you knew about this problem, would you have advised your client to disclose it?

REALTOR® on a Mission... NOT Just Seeking a Commission!^TM

Phone: 919.454.8864
Website: http://www.darleenmc.com/ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by those who are part of the ActiveRaincommunity, including those providing comments relating to this blog, are their opinions and their alone - and do NOT reflect the opinions of Darleen McCullen and Keller Williams Realty. Darleen McCullen and Keller Williams Realty are not responsible for the accuracy (or lack thereof) or content provided by others.

Posted by Darleen McCullen, Broker-Raleigh, NC Real Estate on 04/21/2008 11:33 AM

Comments (91)

buyer, seller, home inspection, small claims court, north carolina

Post is included in group: North Carolina Real Estate
Post is included in group: Realtors®
Post is included in group: You've GOT to be kidding
Post is included in group: ETHICS and the REALTOR
Post is included in group: Funniest Real Estate Stories

91 Comments on Hot Water in the Toilet. Oh My!! (Buyers and Sellers Beware.)

APR

2008

Yes and I would encourage my client (seller) to get it fixed .. As it could effect the current and future vale of the home.

Good story! The thing wss not so much that there was hot water in the toilet.... I really don't believe the (plumber) part about rusted bolts....that happens with cold water, too. It would have to be flushed several times in succession to get hot water to the toilet. Like trying to get hot water to the basin when shaving. I'm usually done shaving by the time the hot water shows up. And I gotta tell you, it's hard for me to believe that a plumber would charge $1000 to switch the line over to cold water. Somebody had a nice dinner and a good laugh that night.

But the REAL THING was that the Seller tried to slide over it and then admitted as much to the Buyer. Now that was just downright stupid once and double stupid on the second count.

Glad to see you are still smiling about the whole thing. Have a great day!
JimG

Darleen, that's a very good story. I never would have thought it. I am glad things worked out for the buyer.

Eric ~ It is best that Sellers fix things that may come back to bite them later.

Jim ~ It's a true story. The Seller did say that it would cost them $2,000 to get the problem fixed - and the Buyer received several estimates ranging from $300 to nearly $2,000 as well. Perhaps that's how much the plumbers charge in the Raleigh, NC area.

Ray ~ It's sad that the Buyer had to take the Seller to Court.

I have experienced sellers getting into hot water but never literally! Just about the time I think I have heard everything!

Bruce ~ LOL. That's funny. There's a first for everything.

The sellers totally should have disclosed that liitle tidbit!

This made me think of something similar. Several years ago, I went to visit a friend at Loyola in New Orleans. He was living in student housing, so this was never an issue he worried about. But I can distinctly remember flushing the toilets and feeling the steam rise from the toilet bowl every time. I didn't realize that it could be so damaging, but there is a reason every other toilet is hooked up to cold water!

Jim & Maria ~ Exactly. I'm not a plumber, but I don't think hot water is good for toilets PLUS it's a waste of electricity.

APR

2008

I used to be in sales (I am in property mgt now) and am always amazed... well, did the seller ever stop to think about how much they spent to heat their toilet water for six years? Of coourse, on a cold winter day it could feel very nice! :)

I agree with cindy. my first thought was the cost of heating the toilet water? I have to tell you I would have encourged the sellers to fix the water lines before listing.

Darleen - I can't believe that the original builder didn't take responsibility and fix this! Actually just reread - sounds like the original owner never asked the builder to do so? There's a reason builders have warranties. Sometimes mistakes occur. If something comes up in new construction, make sure to go through the warranty process and get it take care of - within the warranty period, which is usually one year, though some builders offer 18 months. Can save a lot of trouble in the long run!

I would definitely tell a seller to disclose this. I would have advised the seller to contact the builder and have them fix it. I would think that this should have been fixed for free. I am not at all surprised that the buyer won in court. What does surprise me is that the home inspection company didn't pick up on it and that they had such a lame excuse. If I were the buyer, I'd have gone after them as well.

Wow! That is an interesting story. The thing I love about being a Realtor is that no two transactions are the same. Although, I can sell homes till I retire and still not run into a bizarre occurence like this.

WOW, I was thinking just switch the lines? I crossed the lines on the washer, it was a 2 minute fix. I never would have thought crossed lines on a toilet was so involved. I guess thats why i'm not a plumber and don't give plumbing advice HAHA!!!

To answer you question: If the client told me the cost of the fix, I would have advised for disclosure. Had a plumber not been contacted, I don't think I would feel the need to disclose, just switch the lines. Makes me think.

Wow. What a touchy situation. It does seem like the burden should be back on the Builder. I'm not a City Inspector, but it seems like that's something that they should have caught and not issued the CO. The seller should have contacted the builder from the get go as well. I had some issues with my AC ducts being improperly installed. This was new construction. After contacting them 1000 times they finally came and fixed it. I seems like the inspectors in the area tend to turn a blind eye for certain builders in the area. How unfortunate.

I agree with Jason that it doesn't say a lot about the city inspectors.

I have no doubt they would have lost. It is a clear disclosure problem. Especially since many people keep their water heater above the recommended 120 degree water temp, there could have been some burns. Hey...the McDonald's lady won hers...

Neet story! Seller's better disclose everything. I am glad justice was served.

Ok...first of all disclosure should have been made. Builder should have been made responsible in the beginning, BUT, Hot water is not going to break down the inner working of a toilet. The blue disks will do more harm than any water will with the exception of SALT WATER. But having heated water in a toilet is not all that uncommon. There are many areas that do this in order to cut down on the sweating of the toilet bowl and tank. It stops the moister from running down on the floor and rotting out the floor. Most of the time, there is a mixer that heats the water to about room temp. With the newer efficient toilets, the amount of water used is as much as 1/4 the amount of an older style, so the cost is really minimal. Most of the time you are running water to a sink or shower/tub during the same time anyway, so the hot water will already be there when the "flush" happens.

Wow, can I now say I have heard it all? Probably not....what a story! Good for the buyers to pursue the matter and win!

Ha! Believe it or not, I had this same problem. Very weird (and unnerving) to have steam coming out of the toilet! LOL. Too bad the seller was so difficult, but what can you do? Also interesting that the inspector wasn't required to point it out....hmmmm.

Fascinating story. It would have been expensive to heat the water. The seller should have disclosed or fixed it initially.

They should have had the builder do it when they found out.

Sometimes leaving little problems allows them to mushroom into bigger problems.

All the best!

Absolutely disclose this and repair prior to selling, this situation stinks, pun definately intended, lol.

I think Realtors should write a book on these kinds of situation. This is a first for me and I have been licensed since 1982. Keep the stories coming, we all need a laugh in this market. Sorry the buyer had to take seller to small claims court that is so stressful. Seller should have disclosed and repaired before selling. I guess what goes around will also come around.

ABSOLUTELY!!! hot water in a toilet is definately something that raises a red flag to me. red flags call for discloure.

As a building consultant and appraiser I can see how this could easily happen. It is impossible for inspectors to catch everything.

When the previous owner found out the problem they should have pursued getting the problem resolved as did the current purchaser.

This one came back and bite them in the butt. :)

Boy, talk about 'Being in Hot Water'.... That seller was a dope

This is funny

I have a listing like that as we speak, but it is definitely disclosed! One potential buyer asked if the seller would fix it and our reply was...it depends on the offer you make on the house. I am amazed at how often this problem of hot water in the toilet happens.

I'm NOT going to weigh in on this one. Hopefully noone was hurt (prior sellers or buyers). This definitely goes under the "you'd have to be there yourself to believe it" category

I'm glad the Buyer walked with this one.

That is as it should be.

We use Seller's disclosures and urge our Seller's to be completely honest when filling them out.

This Blog post is exactly why we do things the way we do.

Now if I could just get Blog Boy to have home inspections on our personal purchases we'd be good to go :)

TLW...ROAR!

Cindy ~ It sounds like the Seller never did think about how much it was costing him in electricity to heat the toilet water for 6 years.
Sharon ~ The Seller said that they didn't tell their agent about the problem. But I'm with you - if I knew about it, I would definitely tell my client to fix the problem.
Penny ~ I bet the Seller didn't notify the Builder. I'm with you, all the Builders that I know would fix the problem if notified. Mistakes do happen - and that is what the warranty is for.
Katherine ~ The Buyer did go back to the Home Inspector - and apparently, this wasn't one of the things that was required by the licensing board for which to check. (I haven't looked at their rules in awhile, but they definitely have their guidelines on how to govern themselves as inspectors.

Chris Ann ~ True! No 2 days or transactions are ever the same. There's always something that keeps us on our toes.
Chad~ It seems like an easy fix - but with the toilet, the plumber would have to go inside the walls and run the lines from the water heater to the toilet, etc. (I'm not a plumber, but it seems a little detailed to me.) :-)
Jason ~ Touchy indeed! If the Seller was smart, they would've contacted the Builder - as it was the Builder's error - and the property was probably still under warranty when it was discovered. As for city inspectors, there is so much new construction in our area that I'm sure they can't catch everything. Plus, I'm thinking that when the lines were connected, the water wasn't even running yet. (They should be color-coded? I dunno. But there must be something in place to keep this from happening.)
Melina ~ LOL. I don't know if the water was hot enough for burns, but it could've caused some problems - especially if the tank burst. Think about all the water damage that could've resulted.

AmState ~ It is great the justice prevailed. That's what the courts are there for - but sometimes, of course, the System is overused. Not in this case, though.
William ~ Just going by what the plumber said about hot water being in the toilet. If hot water was the correct thing to have, then it seems that everyone would have it in their toilets? Just a thought!
Jennifer ~ This profession just gets more and more interesting!
Greg ~ Interesting that you had this problem. I guess it's not as uncommon as I thought it would be. Regarding the inspector, in North Carolina, at the time, it seems that it wasn't one of the required items for the Inspector to check. I guess it could become a requirement if enough people complained about it to the Board for inspectors.

Kevin ~I think that some folks think they're above doing what's right - and you're right, they should've had the Builder fix it. Mistakenly, they think that it's the Buyer's "problem" after closing - and that's not necessarily the case.
Travis~ LOL.
Dianne ~ I think a book would be an excellent idea!
Dee ~ Good point - and a good rule of thumb: Red flags should call for disclosure!
Russell ~ It is impossible to catch everything. I don't know what the Seller was thinking!

Tom ~ LOL. Yes, the Seller was in hot water, indeed!
Joy ~ Interesting. Glad your Seller chose to disclose the problem.
Robert ~ You didn't want to weigh in? Apparently, this has happened to several of our ActiveRain colleagues. Not as uncommon as it seems.
TLW ~ That's so funny! Interesting that Broker Bryant doesn't want to have inspections on your personal purchases. Keep working on him! :-)

excellent justice

I encourage my sellers to disclose EVERYTHING. When I first meet with them and tour the home, I ask them to tell me any and everything they can think of no matter how small or insignificant it may be. This is another story that I can use to share how important it is to tell everything!

Darleen this is a very good reason why sellers should disclose everything. Sellers should never assume something is not a big problem. What they might assume is not big can cost them more. Great post.

Thanks for the laugh. This was so unbelievable. But to put a positive spin on the hot water in the tank. it does get cold up in Raleigh. It might not be such a bad feature in the winter...LOL.

Silly seller learned the value of disclosure the hard way.

Michael ~ Exactly. Justice!
Kimberly ~ Good policy to disclose everything. Yes...feel free to use the story. :-) I know that sometimes our Sellers resist taking all of our advice, but they definitely don't want to end up in Court.

Thanks for the laugh. This was so unbelievable. But to put a positive spin on the hot water in the tank. it does get cold up in Raleigh. It might not be such a bad feature in the winter...LOL.

Silly seller learned the value of disclosure the hard way.

sorry didn't sign the post the 1st time.

Absolutely...I would tell them they have to disclose!!!!

Rick ~ I was wondering who you were. :-) Yes, it does get cold in Raleigh - and today was a rather chilly day for us. Yes, silly, silly seller.
Monika ~ Glad to hear it!

If I would have known about the problem or any other problems it would have been disclosed for sure.

Mike ~ Great to know! We definitely don't want to get into trouble because our clients failed to disclose something.

For your part of the country this was probably a builders mistake. However in many areas of colder climates hot water is in fact piped to the toilets to prevent condensation on the outside of the bowl. I lived in Alaska where it is common practice to run hot (or mixed) water to the toilet, especially when it comes out of the supply lines at near freezing temperatures. I would certainly challenge the estimate for switching the supply lines -- even if a plumber had to go into the walls. The line could probably be switched under the sink or where ever the line connected. I don't think the plumber knew much about the effects of hot water in a toilet. Hot water would not cause any more harm in the toilet than in the sink or tub where it runs daily in much higher quantities...

I know you won't believe this but it happened to us many years ago when we purchased a new home from the builder. My husband thought he was imaginining things but really, there was hot water in the toilet bowl. It was repaired the next day. We still laugh about it.

The seller knew exactly what they were doing... no home inspector would ever think to see if there was hot water in toilet. Please.

DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE

I've never heard of somthing like this before. The seller could of had this problem fixed when he/she first moved in. It would of saved a ton on the utility bill.

I think I would have been a little shocked to have my rear steamed! LOL. I can't imagine that. They used hot water for 6 years every time the flushed. That's just crazy. When in doubt, disclose it!

Of course I would disclose it. I would make it a positive. My wife is always cold! :>)

I didn't read the comments but am surprised that this was not discovered until the buyers moved in. Crazy world sometimes! If it were my listing, it would have been disclosed.

Too funny! Absolutely I would suggest a seller to disclose something like this.

Can't say most inspectors would have expected to find hot water in the toilet! Wow. What can we say but disclose, disclose, disclose. Thanks for the post.

That's a new take on getting a surprise in the shower when someone flushes!

I moved into my new home where the builder crossed the hot and cold water. It was in the Kitchen, my R/O and frig were connected to the hot water line and the dishwasher was hooked up to the cold water. We missed it during inspection because the builder did not turn on the utilities.

Well, if there was hot water in the toilet....I certainly wouldn't cook in it!

APR

2008

Darleen - I would definitely tell the seller to disclose this. Actually, I would tell them to get it fixed. This is the first time I have ever heard of this happening. I am glad to hear the buyers won this case.

Great post! I enjoyed the comments as well. I would instruct the seller to fully disclose all issues known about the home and will probably be even more careful.

Bob ~ Interesting. We learn something every day. Thanks for the information about living in colder climates. In NC, this definitely was a mistake. You may be right - maybe the plumber didn't know what he was talking about - and maybe he was just trying to get extra money out of the Buyer.
Diane ~ Wow! You're the second person who said this happened to them on AR. I'm sure it happens more often than we know.
Debbie ~ The inspectors I know don't check the toilet for hot water. (At least I've never seen them put a thermometer or their hands in the toilet, LOL.

It is amazing how many sellers and their agents that do not understand what they are responsible for even if the buyer does not notice before moving in.

I only experienced a toilet with hot water once. It was in a lower end motel in Las Vegas about 18 years ago. Hope they had it fixed by now.

Brian ~ Yes, the Seller should've taken care of the problem when they moved into the home. They paid for their negligence in the end.
Christy ~ LOL!
Wayne ~ You're funny. I'm sure your wife, although she's always cold, would've been a little shocked at hot water in the toilet.
Judi ~ The Sellers did discover it - but didn't do anything about getting it resolved. I guess they thought that if they lived with it, then someone else could, too. When asked, they said that they hadn't told their real estate agent about the problem. Sounds suspect to me - because the agent who sold them the new property handled their resale. (I don't know about other agent's clients, but MY clients call me to tell me when something big goes wrong with their home.)

Paul ~ Glad you got a big laugh out of it. :-D
Bob & Carolin ~ I don't think most inspectors would even think to check the toilet, either. I'm not an inspector, but I'm sure they have a list of things from the Licensing Board, and they go by that list.
Kent ~ LOL. Yes, quite a surprise, indeed!
Ferdinand ~ I hope you were able to get the item resolved. I bet you were surprised, to say the least.
Tony ~ No, you would not want to cook with it, that's for sure!
Jason ~ The Sellers definitely should've fixed it - and at the very least should've disclosed it. It's a shame that people would do something like this and think that there would be no consequences for their actions.

Carol ~ That's cute. I never thought about this happening in a hotel but it makes sense. They install plumbing on a large scale.

This is a material defect. Why didn't the builder get called back immediately? $3,000 seems a bit much to correct the problem too. I'm thinking the sink in there uses cold water, open the wall fix it and seal it back up. Suing people is expensive and placing a lien on their new property may not work. I'm thinking you'd get a judgment against them and wait for them to apply for new credit.

Looks like the seller was in hot water with this one! <chortle>

Yes, if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: The rule of real estate, for all parties involved, is disclose, disclose, disclose. Better to deal with a problem now than be sued later - gee whiz!

Great post! That problem would have really burned my butt :)

Great post - and the moral of the story is dislose everything -

I had to laugh just because....is there very little we haven't heard or seen? Thanks for the post.

Goodness. Doesn't NC have a seller's property condition disclosure??? If so, that was required disclosure. I'm surprised a home inspection didn't revaal it. If there is not property condition disclosure, this is a defect and material.

The original owner should have had the builder fix it.

What's the matter with people?????

Here's another problem using hot water in the toilet can cause.

There is a wax ring that the bottom of the toilet sets on where the waste water enters the sewage drain. Hot water could melt that ring and that would be a large, stinky mess. ;-(

Lanre ~ I agree. Disclosure is the key! Sometimes, our Sellers don't always tell us (and I know I would not have thought to check for hot water in the toilet). I can see it now, walking around with a thermometer during the listing presentation, LOL!
Randall ~ I guess the Seller was a slacker and didn't want to "bother" the Builder? I don't know. Suing in Small Claims Court is probably less than $100 these days, and the loser has to pay Court Costs, I believe in some states.
Angela~ LOL. The Seller was in hot water, indeed.
Katy~ LOL.
David ~ Indeed. I tell people to disclose if they think it may be a problem.
Laura ~ It's always something interesting happening in real estate. Never a dull moment!
Lenn ~ Yes, NC does have a Seller's disclosure form, but the Seller chose not to disclose. I think that people either don't know their rights when it comes to new construction OR they were lazy and chose not to exercise them.

Jim ~ I didn't know about the wax ring. I guess this would cause the toilet to leak through the floor? If that's the case, that's NOT good! Thanks for the information.

Darleen - I have never heard this real estate story before. In New York some sellers think they are protected by paying the $500 fee for not filling out the required property disclosure. The moral of the story is:disclose disclose disclose or it will cost you.

APR

2008

Great story, I have not heard this one before. Incidentally, the sellers probably spent more than $2K in energy costs associated with heating the water for their toilet.

Jennifer ~ That's interesting that NY has that policy. In NC, we don't have that.
Matthew ~ True. It would be interesting to know how much money they spent in electric bills over the course of the 6 years they lived in the property.

MAY

2008

I'd be steaming mad!

Randall~ LOL. Thanks for the laugh...

MAY

2008

That is amazing that someone would not get it fixed sooner! Mostly due to the cost of heating water, plus it may smell, sorry to say that.

Disclose, Disclose, Disclose!!! That will keep you out of "hot water" later on! :)

Mary ~ LOL. That made me laugh. Never thought about the "smell" part of it. And yes, what a waste of electricity!
Sandra ~ Yes, disclosure will definitely keep sellers out of hot water!

AUG

2008

This story has legs, I just heard the same story down here in Florida. LOL

Darleen, this is something I would like to think most home inspectors would catch. We do flush all toilets and usually toilets that have hot water run to them have condensation all over the underside of the seat. It is something in particular I look for in new construction because it usually will have been fixed on older homes (although in your case apparently not:) I find it a couple of times a year. I would look seriously at finding another inspector if they are telling you there is a "list" of what they look for and don't look for.

AUG

2008

Darleen, I agree with Charles that a home inspector should have caught this defect since they are supposed to turn on as many fixtures as possible to check functional flow. There are two other things that come to mind; How many other houses in this development have the same problem(marketing oportunity) and were all of the fixtures in the house checked for reversed hot/cold. This could be a scald hazard if the hot and cold are reversed in the shower or tub.

I agree with Charles that a home inspector should have caught this defect since they are supposed to turn on as many fixtures as possible to check functional flow. There are two other things that come to mind; How many other houses in this development have the same problem(marketing oportunity) and were all of the fixtures in the house checked for reversed hot/cold. This could be a scald hazard if the hot and cold are reversed in the shower or tub.

AUG

2008

Randall ~ That is too funny. Not in a "ha ha" kind of way, but you know what I mean. :-)

Charles ~ It's great that you do pay attention to the condensation. Unfortunately, not all inspectors are created equally.

Steve~ I just think that it was an oversight when the place was built. The initial owner, who probably didn't have a home inspection - and when they did figure it out, they may have brought it to the builder's attention; However, it could've been outside of the warranty period. Who knows, right?

It's fairly easy to check if you run the shower and sink hot water first to check the proper left right connection on them.

Wouldn't want to stand there flushing the toilet 10 times to get hot water to it.

Infrared thermometer then tells the story easily.

Though as pointed out above, some areas using mixing valves to add hot water to the toilet to avoid sweating of the toilet.

Erby ~ This problem, unfortunately, occurs more often than many of us probably thought.

OCT

2008

I didn't realize that this could be so disasterous to the toilet and plumbing. I is too bad that they didn't think it needed to be disclosed.

OCT

2008

Michelle~ Yes, it could've been disastrous, according to the plumber. I say, "When in doubt, DISCLOSE!" :-)

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