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The Section 8 Blues

By Sara Goodwin

Real Estate Appraiser with Estimation Nation Corporation

April 20, 2008 08:31 AM

Our friend, who has had an unimaginably daunting year or two already, was finally able to evict her Section 8 tenant. The friend has a heart of gold and so it's not surprising that she and her family would chose to go with government subsidized housing for their rental. I can promise you they will never do it again.

When she went through the final walk through she was armed with a camera. The tenant was armed with stories and excuses. Apparently the holes in the walls and broken door jams were caused just the day before by someone that had broken in and peed on their carpets (if you're this bad at lying, just admit that you had a dog and rowdy kids in the house).

After they had vacated the house, it was discovered that they left behind nearly everything the family owned; toys, clothes, too many stereos for one family to use...

An official from the Housing Authority of Portland came over to take pictures prior to the clean up. The news of what they will do in compensation is grim. Recent budget cuts will likely mean that my friend will get no supportfrom the organization. (In fact, they seem to be more interested in selling off their single family houses and building new multi-family construction than working with Section 8 landlords.)

Our friends rallied around her and we had a clean up day at the rental this weekend. A 30 foot dumpster was delivered and filled to the brim within 45 minutes. A truck and trailer were piled high as well. Everything had to go... carpets, doors, cabinets, ceiling fans... nearly everything was past salvation.

Among the final layer of debris were bills including one from the water bureau for over $600 ... as the owner of the property my friend will be responsible for paying that. There was a peculiar post card response from Tri-Met (our mass transit system) letting the tenant know that she was not able to qualify for door service from one of their shuttles as she had requested, however they would continue to give her free monthly bus passes. There was her boyfriend's Clackamas County Jail inmate identification card. There was a dead mouse and ample amounts of rat droppings. When I leaving the scene there was discussion of renting yet another dumpster.

I just don't get it. The Housing Authority of Portland was paying all but $140 of her monthly rent and yet she couldn't seem to have the decency to keep the house in an inhabitable condition.

My friend simply does not have the means to gamble on another Section 8 tenant without the Housing Authority's support. She will repair the house to the best of her financial ability and sell it, leaving one less Section 8 house in Portland.

The final question that the tenant asked my friend was "Does this mean I will lose my housing benefits?"

The answer at this point is still up in the air.

Update: 10/23/2008. This house is still on the market... There has been a $20,000 reduction in the asking price. Note to self: do not attempt to sell a house without a kitchen.

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Mike Hogan

The Hogan Group at Keller Williams Realty - Mechanicsville, VA

MBA

I have to say I've had great luck with the Housing Choice Voucher program here in Richmond. They stopped helping with cleanups a few years back but realistically- I havent had the need for it recently. There are always going to be those that take advantage of the program and the landlords that participate- but never-the-less... it's still a great program for landlords to participate in.

Oct 22, 2008 11:40 PM

Sara Goodwin

Estimation Nation Corporation - Portland, OR

Portland, Oregon Appraiser

Megan - I think that's what is the bottom line... how much protection tenants are given - I think that protection is fine as long as the Housing Authority balances this out with proper fixes and more than just a slap on the wrist (if that) from time to time.

Mike - It's great to hear that there are still people that are having success with these programs. My ranting blog was not to discourage landlords, but to vent and open up a discussion about the issues surrounding it.

Update included in the above post.

Oct 23, 2008 10:00 AM

Sheila Moran

RE/MAX Access (Garden Ridge, San Antonio, New Braunfels) - New Braunfels, TX

SanAntonioSheila.com, RE/MAX Access, 210-32

Sara,

Wow, seems like everyone has a story to tell! (nigthmare that is)

I used to have a great group of housing Tenants until the section 8 program PULLED OUT of a certain neigborhood! Yes, decided by the end of the month (which gave Tenats 20 days) they had to be out. Can you image the number of people trying to secure new housing, the landlords that lost a Tenant at the drop of a hat as well as the kids that had to be uprooted, move and sent to a new school....all cause housing decided that there was too much of a concentration in this one area of housing units!

Oct 29, 2008 01:57 PM

David Larson

Lancer Group Properties - Menomonie, WI

That is a pretty horrible situation - but I cannot help but feel worse for the children across the country that grow up in households like this! My wife is a guidance counselor in a small school and knows of similar home lives for some of these children. They have their work cut out for them to build quality social and educational skills!

I would guess there will be very little help from the housing authority - they help cover rent costs, but not traditionally willing to take responsibility for the successfull operation or management of the facilities when they are privately owned. My only question, as a property manager, would be why didn't they just get evicted at the first notice of damage?

Nov 06, 2008 11:32 PM

Sara Goodwin

Estimation Nation Corporation - Portland, OR

Portland, Oregon Appraiser

Sheila - I can't believe they'd just pulled the plug in an area with such little notice! What were they thinking?

Hi David - I feel the same way. But then is it these programs that make people think that there will always be help for them especially if they have oodles of kids? The housing authority apartment complex that just opened up down the road was prioritizing single mothers with children and the elderly. Couples without children and single people had little if any chance of getting into the housing units.

Nov 07, 2008 11:32 AM

Heather Goodwin

Licensed by the Louisiana Real Estate Commission - Shreveport, LA

Results That Move You

Haven't read all the comments. Just chiming in to say that I am also selling all my section 8 houses. It's just not worth it when their demands at the annual housing inspection costs me so much money. I didn't get into rentals to lose money which is where I'm heading because in the Housing Authority's eyes, the tenant is king.

Nov 08, 2008 09:05 AM

Maggie Baumbach

Search Homes for Sale in Maryland at HelpShop.com - Reisterstown, MD

That is such a terrible story. And it is too bad that it seems to be echoed in the comments. I have worked with some very low income clients and the ones that I have interacted with seem pretty responsible and not willing to live like that. It is too bad that the system makes it such a risky gamble, bad tenants can do so much more damage than the income. Good luck to your friend in her future investments, in or out of real estate.

Jan 01, 2009 04:32 AM

Sara Goodwin

Estimation Nation Corporation - Portland, OR

Portland, Oregon Appraiser

Hi Heather - That is too bad that it's not just our local housing authority that is making it unpopular to keep Section 8 housing alive. Goodwin? from the Carolinas at all?

Hi Maggie - The house in question has now been sold for a fraction of what it potentially could have due to the condition and the market. Sad, but at least she's got a weight off her shoulders now.

But just a word of advice to all... if you have a house with a functioning kitchen regardless of it's condition... don't rip it out unless you are positive you will be replacing it with another kitchen. That really limits your buyers and their financial options...

Jan 01, 2009 06:36 AM

Tony and Libby Kelly

Keller Williams Realty Portland Premiere - Lake Oswego, OR

CRS, ABR, ePro, SRES, CLHMS, CDPE

How incredibly frustrating.

Jan 02, 2009 03:47 AM

Diane Rice

Rice Prprty Mgmnt & Rlty, LLC, South Holland, IL - Lansing, IL

SFR, SRES, CNC

Hi Sara & Happy New Year to you! I did not see your post until AFTER mine on Section 8 was done. I'm so glad the TRUTH is coming out about it... THANK YOU for publishing the FACTS with pictures!! I have come to the FINAL concensus, which is: All around the Country, this Section 8 program mostly does NOT work....

Jan 05, 2009 06:13 AM

Chris Martin

Holly Springs, NC

I think the lesson is pay attention to your property. Two words: Property Management.

The property manager seems to be asleep at the wheel. Is the property manager a licensed real estate professional? When was the last time your friend inspected the property? I would bet never. 7 years. "My friends husband was over there at least once a month to do yard maintenence and check up on the house..."

And he never saw anything wrong? No dog? No holes in the walls? Did he really go in the house? Hmmm. Manage the Property. What a concept.

I think it is less Section 8 and more lack of property management skills. Just my 2 cents.

Manage: to bring about or succeed in accomplishing, sometimes despite difficulty or hardship; to take charge or care of... www.dictionary.com

Jan 13, 2009 09:05 AM

Sara Goodwin

Estimation Nation Corporation - Portland, OR

Portland, Oregon Appraiser

Hi Rice - I will look up your article in a bit... I'd like to hear your experiences, too.

Tony and Libby - It has been most frustrating for her, but it's done now -

Hi Chris - I think I mentioned within the responses... My friend's husband was the care taker, gardener and fix-it guy of the property, and so he was there at least every other week. At that time, there were no issues with the renter. He fell sick and eventually died. As you can imagine, priorities shifted during this time period, however there was no more than 3 months of lack of visitation to the property while all this happened. What is incredibly sad is that the tenant had been there for at least 5 years. She knew the family. She knew the situation. She took advantage of it. And then there is the housing authority who left the family high and dry in the end.

Jan 14, 2009 05:39 AM

Anonymous

I would guess that most of you posting here don't have to live in the neighborhoods where you accept section 8 vouchers. These losers have begun to turn my neighborhood into a slum in just a matter of a few months. I watched the first family move in two doors down and the owner drove in from San Fran to see the damage that had been done to his wood floors. They had only been there 2 weeks and managed to destroy a beautiful home with a toilet that caused damage they were too lazy to report. Crime has also increased. Oh and the shopping carts abandoned and used as toys.... (because they don't have cars)

It sickens me to working my *** off to pay a mortgage on a home sitting in the middle of a neighborhood that is starting to look like skid row!.. I school my children at home during the day and everyday I watch this woman walk around the neighborhood in her pj's in the middle of the day who has children in school all day. I will let this home foreclose before I continue to live next to these freeloading thugs and will never accept vouchers from them.

oh... and this is the best.... my little girl heard noises outside her window around 2am one morning. She looks down from her window and what did she see???? Some thug punching a woman in the face. Those were friends of the new neighbors.. That was their first week. If this is the future of those working hard to succeed... I'm migrating. It angers me that anyone would support our government robbing working people to support those who are not willing to work.

Jan 26, 2009 10:35 AM

#38

Chris Martin

Holly Springs, NC

"by..." Who?

Anonymous. By... NULL.

I find this post by "" unbelievable.

Jan 26, 2009 11:21 AM

Anonymous

Does it matter???

by ... someone who wants to post anonymously. What's so unbelievable?

Jan 26, 2009 11:34 AM

#40

Chris Wechner

CW Health Inc - Waterford, MI

I know this is a pretty old blog post, but I had a hard time stopping myself from laughing when I read about the burgular breaking in the home to pee on the carpet.

Section 8 Tenants can be wonderful. Nobody is perfect with screening, but this is an excellent reminder about how important it is to screen your propspective tenants. It's also good to keep in contact with them. Often, it's a lot easier to treat a place like it is NOT your own when your landlord is just "some person" who collects the rent. Plus, you have a better chance of catching the warning signs BEFORE they become insurmountable issues.

Mar 12, 2010 07:01 AM

Sara Goodwin

Estimation Nation Corporation - Portland, OR

Portland, Oregon Appraiser

Hi Chris -

Any tenant (or landlord for that matter) can go bad. That's what happened in this case. She had been a tenant for over 5 years before the issues started up. It could have been a combination of her life style changes and the landlords lack of attentiveness (as in not visiting the property weekly) that were to blame.

Unfortunately since selling this Section 8 property, my friend is now forced to sell her primary residence as well and rent for a while until she gets back on her feet. Who knows? She might even be eligible for Section 8 housing, soon...

Mar 17, 2010 04:00 AM

Anonymous

Lakesha

I know this a very old article, but I just saw it. I recieve Section 8 in a different state. I have been on the program for a while and in my current home for just over 8 years. I work everyday and have worked since I was 16 years old (29). I have never had a problem with my landlord, I pay my rent on time and keep a clean home. I have three children 7 and twins 6 so it really bothers me to hear stories like this. I know some people can give Section 8 recipients a bad name but there are some really good tenants out there too. I appreciate it because without it our lives would be really hard. Tell your friend just to be careful and to check for rental history on any future tenants she may get. Even the good ones can do you wrong. I work for a small property management firm and people really do just screw you beacuse they can. No matter how good you are to them, so just be as proactive as you can.

Jun 30, 2010 08:35 AM

#43

Anonymous

Mimi Williamson

I'm sorry for what happened to that landlord, but the other side to that coin is that there are good people like myself who cannot help what has happened to them financially. I am an RN and MSW with over 40 years experience in psychiatric field. I lost my job 11/2 years ago, then became disabled with MS and am only making $1064 a month which leaves my housing needs very limited. I have been thinking of moving to Portland, could probably do some part-time work to supplement my SSDI, but after reading the prejudicial statements on this site, I should just probably continue my struggles in Phoenix, a city which I hate.

mimieve

Jul 02, 2010 12:02 AM

#44

Sara Goodwin

Estimation Nation Corporation - Portland, OR

Portland, Oregon Appraiser

Hello Lakesha and Mimi -

Thank you for adding your perspectives.

Any renter or landlord can be a bad egg. Believe me, I've seen both sides. My grievence has more to do with the city and how their currently dealing (or not) with the program that is supposed to make things run smoothly for all parties. It seems as though the current outcome is not at all smooth.

I wish you both the best.

Jul 02, 2010 08:45 PM