diplomaticHow do we see ourselves as realtors, loan officers, staggers, real estate attorneys, appraisers, and just as individuals in general.  Sure, the picture to my right might be a little obscured in what I am about to talk about, but there is a meaning behind this. 

I received a new lead from Ravi Shah here on Active Rain. I haven't met Ravi yet, but we have talked many times on the phone and through e-mails. I first met Ravi on ActiveRain in December of 2006 and we have gotten to know each other recently, hoping to meet in person soon, hence why he has put his trust in me to help his clients. (I guess blogging does help someone get to know you more so than just a face to face.)

Ravi wanted me to pre-qualify his client as he started to show them homes. His clients expressed to me what they wanted, what they wanted to pay, and how much they had to use in regards to cash. After 2 weeks of showing them a few homes, they finally found the one that they liked. The listing agent called me because my name and number was on the pre-qual letter. She had concerns because of past clients and lenders, who were said to be qualified, but apparently weren't as they approached the settlement date. Hey, not a problem. I'll tell you that they are qualified, a little about myself, but no details about the clients in question. ie. Income, credit, credit scores, etc, etc

Both the seller and buyer agree to a price, seller concession of $2,750, and a closing date to give the seller time to find another home. This date was for the end of April and the buyers were okay with this. So... I am waiting to do an application with the buyers and I e-mail Ravi. Here is his reply.

 Hey Jeff -

Fyi...Suzanne & Cindy backed out of the condo in Birchfield.  The Seller
tried to add a contingency clause after we already had an offer and
acceptance. 

Ravi

 

So, my question to both listing and selling realtors, how much do we screen our clients?  Yes, I know, not every client tells you everything. Even sometimes when you ask the question. But are some of us afraid to be that one person that asks to many questions and we are afraid to scare the client off? Or, maybe in this case, the realtor already knew the answer. Withheld the information, just to get an acceptance, knowing that the buyer really liked the house and that they would work with the seller after the fact. In lending, we call this bait and switch. Do you know realtors that do this? And I am going to use Bryant Tutas within this, because if you haven't yet, read some of his blogs. He only works with sellers, but always has good stories and examples from both sides. Read this post, because he makes some key points, vital to what I am talking about. Compete with the rest and make a mess of success.

shaking hands
I know that I used a picture with the word diplomatic in it. Diplomatic from websters. 3. employing tact and conciliation esp. in situations of stress. Diplomacy : skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility.

You are a realtor who works in the same area as your counterpart, the one that brought the potential buyers. Does this ensuing realtor look into this further, to find out that this has happened before, with other realtors and clients? rut row  You might now become a realtor that is labeled. I hate assuming and passing judgment, but when the proof is in the pudding, how does one react later when you come across the same realtor selling another house? Do you let your clients know? Do you not tell them, but make them look else where? All questions that I have always had as a loan officer and possibly some of the same questions that a few of you realtors might have and could learn from this. 

Conclusion :  This is all a learning curve for many of us, how to handle ourselves. How to get to our objective. How to appease that client. And we aren't just talking about good service here, but ethics also. Not only does Ravi have to hit the pavement now, but so do the clients. And what happens if rates spike a little, as they did yesterday. Just so much out there. Would you want this to happen to you? Do we treat others the way that we would like to be treated?  And don't get me wrong. I never stated that I was god nor perfect, but one that strives to be upfront with my clients and not just your typical sales person. Work together and not against each other.

UPDATE: as of 2/22/07 1:30 pm  Here is Ravi Shah's side. Just to clarify things. The sellers originally asked for a April 30th settlement, to give them time to find a place, which apparently they have been from Ravi's blog. My whole point, they know that they want more time, but didn't present this upfront, wanting a contract in hand, and then to bring this up. Why?  Afraid to scare off potential buyers?  Seller Contingency?!?! No Way!!

Picture from REUTERS/Raheb Homavandi) -- in regards to the first picture up top

 

15 Comments on Who is to blame, the listing agent or the seller?

FEB
22
2007
121,312 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Well Jeff you pose some good questions about the negotiation process.  If it were my buyers I would have tried to hold the deal together by reminding that we already had an accepted offer and would have tried to narrow it down to where the communication fell off.  In the future if I had a buyer that was putting an offer in on the same agent listing, I would probably scrutinize that agent very carefully and then caution my buyers that a last minute change has been known to happen when dealing with this agent.

Sorry to hear that things fell apart.  It's always hard to juggle all these different issues that can arise.

10:45am • #1
186,766 Points 28 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I try hard not to always blame the sellers or the other agent in cases like this....since you never do know where it's coming from (a difficult agent?  or crazy sellers?  i've seen a lot of both!).  Still, it's incredibly frustrating when not all parties to the contract seem to GET that the best outcome is a smooth closing-isn't that what we're all striving for?  Buyers, sellers and agents alike!
10:49am • #2
533,193 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff:  without knowing the specifics of Ravi's case, buyers and sellers add contingencies through addendums to executory contracts all of the time.  It doesn't make them a bad buyer or a bad seller (depending on the contingecy I guess, if it is realistic or unrealestic) but it isn't exactly out of the norm or be something that would cause someone to back out of the contract.

If you noticed Ravi's comments "the sellers tried to add" the buyers could have very well said "no" and stayed in the contract.  Again, I don't know Ravi's circumstances but if the contingency was stupid and the buyers would have had to fight to get them to perform or close, then it is in their best interest to back out of their contract so their EMD or time isn't tied up in something that won't close.  Sometimes the fight isn't worth it but really all the buyers have to say is "no"

10:59am • #3
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Cynthia..... I am sure Ravi tried holding the deal together as best as possible. But you also have to respect your clients decisions and maybe they just didn't want to bother with this. Ravi would be better to explain himself.

I do thank you for stopping by and for your input. And in regards to the situation, as both Ravi and myself want a quick settlement, we also want the borrowers to be happy and not rushed.

 

Leigh.....  I agree... I wasn't trying to blame anyone in this scenario. More so, awareness and to get feedback so many of us can learn from this, what to look for, what to ask.... and not being afraid to ask even the deepest of questions. 

And yes, I am sure it's very frustrating. I agree that we all should be striving for the same thing. But how we sometimes go about it, can give a bad taste at times. Thanks for your input and feedback.

 

Renee..... I totally agree that buyers and sellers add contingencies through addendum's many times. Maybe I didn't explain it well in the post, but maybe Ravi will explain more. But part of the contigency was if the sellers couldn't find a house in time. And all parties new about this upfront, hence the reason why the seller asked for an end of April settlement.

But overall.... you make some great points and suggestions. Yes, without knowing the exact details, it's hard to make a lcear cut decision on what took place and what to do.  thanks for bring this up. 

11:00am • #4
533,193 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff:  Great Debate!  The buyers still could have said no to the addendum and moved forward with the purchase.  The question is, will they lose out on time and having their EMD if the sellers wouldn't cooperate with the closing?  Since they (as buyers) backed out it is hard to say if the "sellers or the listing agent is the problem" when the buyers could have very well stayed in the executory contract and said no and played it out.

In our standardized GLVAR contract there is a clause that makes it very clear that there are penalties for occupancy post COE. 

I posted about something similar(not quite to this magnitude) that drew out some great debate.  One agent said they owe you (a buyer's agent) commission.  If Ravi gave them everything they wanted per their MLS T-Sheet, he may be able to file a grievance agains this Realtor but will have to check his MLS bylaws.  That debate prompted me to check our bylaws and while it didn't appear I was owed a commission, it appears that since I gave them everything they wanted that I could file a grievance.  BUT (again not knowing complete story) I don't know how much his grievance will matter since it seems that the buyers withdrew.

Edited to add:  This is really a simple negotiation that could involve a rent-back or the listing agent telling them of temporary housing options.  I don't know what the NJ market is like but these sellers seem to be fishers and the listing agent appears to lack negotiation options

11:37am • #5
2 Featured Posts

Greetings all.  Just to clarify, in my particular case, no contract had been drawn up yet.  We had offer and acceptance and the day that I picked up the contracts, the sellers wanted to add that the sale be contingent on them finding housing.  I did a short write up on this a couple of days ago.  My buyers wanted to settle quick, then agreed to push out a month to let the sellers look for housing.  The sellers agreed, then later changed their mind.  The key is that there are several other properties in the same price range with the same layout...so in my mind, the sellers really aren't anxious to sell.  So why is it up for sale?  I don't think the Listing Agent did anything wrong - just underestimated the urgency of the seller.  I talked to my buyers about the option of a rent-back, but they are more interested in moving in, then just owning. 

That aside, toJeff's point, there are agents in my area who have been "labeled" - they tend to bend the rules as far as they can without breaking them, and when I see their names, I tread lightly! 

12:46pm • #6
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Renee...  wow... thanks for this great input. Especially the last part, about the rent back. I have thought about this in the past, when clients tell me their situations. But since I am not the realtor in this case and because Ravi was in touch with the buyers often, I am not 100% sure what they discussed. Because remember, the buyers are renting also. And not all the time can you get the landlord to allow to to continue renting, depending on the type of property and if that landlord has anyone ready to rent.

It's amazing, because what you have mentioned, sounds just like when a bunch of clients are involved with a particular house and those buyers can't get financing. And if were a train per se, of many different properties involved, it can be one mess. Just as this example, but we are dealing with buyers that rent and not have to sell a property.

Renee... ps... I added Ravi's post that he did on this. He doesn't go into detail, but the sellers basically asked for an extension, in case they couldn't find a house. So, in my own humble opinion, the clients already had this in mind. Which in case should have been mentioned upfront. And as I stated, they would be afraid to scare away buyers. Question is.... does the listing agent know about this?  I think so, because Ravi explains that this house has been on the market for some time.

12:50pm • #7
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Ravi,..... you snuck in there. Thanks for clarifying this in more detail.
12:51pm • #8
533,193 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

OOPS I ASSumed that an offer and acceptance meant you had a written executory contract waiting to be closed and that is the way I read it with Jeff!  Real Estate must be way different in Joisey!

There is no point in listing something that cannot be sold:  JMHO!

1:05pm • #9
FEB
23
2007
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Hey Renee..... yes, New Jersey is different.... lol   Boy, if you only knew. Overall.... here, in what took place, we both think if was wrong in what the seller did.
3:07am • #10
FEB
24
2007
842,628 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I'm reminded almost daily that, no matter how we counsel buyers or sellers, they generally proceed on emotion.  Since the contract was not completed, it was still in the negotiation stage and it appears that the seller wasn't finished negotiating.  These things happen. 

One thing that is clear, we have to be very careful how we describe these scenarios.  Either there was a contract or there was not.  At first, we thought that there was.  Then Ravi cleared the situation and now we know that there was not.  Totally different scenario. 

Gee.  I'm glad I read all of the mail before jumping in a giving an opinion that there was a contract and cases like this make you wish that there were seller's earnest money.  But, since the contract was not completed, no harm, no foul.

Now, Ravi, go find them another home and send the loan to Jeff and everyone will be happy.  Hopefully, the first house that the buyers wanted will still be sitting on the market 6 months from now when the market is down another 5%. 

Or, who knows.  The seller's agent could call tomorrow and say that the seller changed their mine and want to sell NOW with no contingencies.  Hope springe eternal.

 

8:28pm • #11
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn.... I totally agree. I was told that there were contracts. I think there is still a communication thingy going on here. Ravi even said that he was suppose to pick them up, when called and told that they wanted to add something. So... here is what Ravi said....Greetings all.  Just to clarify, in my particular case, no contract had been drawn up yet.  We had offer and acceptance and the day that I picked up the contracts, the sellers wanted to add that the sale be contingent on them finding housing.

So, not trying to make a big deal about it, which is it? That is one reason why I wrote this. I was told that contracts were done. And that he got a call later saying that they wanted to add something to it.

In either case.... my whole issue and problem is, they (the sellers) originally asked for an end of April settlement because they needed time to find a house. Contracts drawn, but now they want to add to this date and have a safety clause just in case they don't find a house yet. And these people, have been looking for a long time. 

My reasoning and guessing..... they didn't want this in the contract to begin with, because it would scare most buyers away, that settlement would actually take place, when the sellers found a house. What?  3 months?  6 months?  a year?   That's how I read all of this, hence the reason I wrote the title as it is. 

9:22pm • #12
FEB
25
2007
406,983 Points 16 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Just to clarify, in my particular case, no contract had been drawn up yet.  We had offer and acceptance and the day that I picked up the contracts, the sellers wanted to add that the sale be contingent on them finding housing.

After reading it all - I see that there was no binding contract since the "offer and acceptance" was verbal.  In Arizona "verbal" means diddly.  Different in this location?  If so - and verbal counts - then there was a contract.  If not - then "offer and acceptance" are likely not the accurate terms to use.

10:45am • #13
FEB
27
2007
2 Featured Posts
In saying no contract had been drawn up...I meant not executed.  No one had signed anything yet.  The contract had been printed, I picked it up, but no one had signed yet.  Sorry for the confusion...I guess I need to slow down when I type! 
9:47am • #14
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Tony....  that was what I was waiting for, Ravi's true input. I didn't want to say something that I was not 100% certain, but had a good idea about. Yes, contracts were drawn up. Not executed though. But that was my whole point about this post. The sellers had to have known prior to contracts. Did the realtor also?  I think so...because she had been working with them for over 6 months. 

Ravi...... thanks for clarifying.... 

9:51am • #15

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