HomeGain, FSBOs, Idiots and "going it alone"!

Want to "go it alone?"
 

Hi folks, you may have already read about HomeGain's new "Personal blooging network for real estate professionals" If not read this post by Brian Brady and this one by Greg Swann over at Bloodhoundblog.

This post is NOT about Homegain's new blogging platform. This post is about REALTORS® and their attitudes towards folks that choose to "go it alone". But there is a connection....so please bare with me.

Jeff Turner posted "For Sale By Owner: Raise the price then call a REALTOR®" a couple of days ago. Jeff's post was basically reposting a question that a FSBO had placed on Twitter. The question was: "Got a buyer for my condo. They want me to hold the mortgage. Any advice?"

Jeff's post was not only a Public post but it was also a Featured post. It received over 70 comments. The comments, from REALTORS® included statements such as:

  • ......this guy is seeking free advice? After he doesn't want to compensate a professional?
  • Never ceases to amaze me how people with little to no experience buying or selling houses seem to "wing it.
  • My advice to the seller's, don't reinvent the wheel, always deal with professionals.
  • .....just another example of an ignorant homeowner who thought they were doing themselves a favor and "saving" money.
  • This guy is a certified idiot.

Now, in all fairness, there were some pretty decent responses, as well, but in my opinion, the majority of the comments were just reprimanding this guy for not wanting to use a "professional". Folks, if you think those PUBLIC comments make you look like professionals then you are sadly mistaken. Whether this FSBO made a good choice, or not, he was really just asking for some advice. If you don't want to give him any....then don't.

But make no mistake about it....him choosing to "go it alone" does not make him an idiot! One commenter summed it up nicely with this comment: "All sellers have four choices, don't sell it, sell it yourself, list with any old Realtor, or hire an experienced one." The key word of course being CHOICES. It's the Seller's choice...not ours. If you want to try and win their business then have it...but demeaning their decision to "go it alone" will only accomplish making yourself look foolish. Not to mention the damage it does to our profession's reputation.

Anyway, I was reading the comments over on Greg Swann's post, about HomeGain and it hit me, Louis Cammarosano, trying to sell Homegain's blogging platform, sounded like a REALTOR® should sound when pitching their services to a FSBO.

Louis was debating with a couple of guys who thought "going it alone" was best. Here are a few snippets of what Louis had to say over at Bloodhoundblog: (The added parenthesis and CAP text are mine)

  • The decision to use homegain(A REALTOR®) is based on whether the agent(SELLER) would rather spend money with homegain(A REALTOR) to get results(BUYERS) or time on his own trying to generate results by himself. Obviously, if you enjoy building your own seo(MARKETING) prowess, developing your own blog, selecting key words etc and are successful at it, then HomeGain(A REALTOR®) perhaps is not for you. If you want a marketing partner that gets results and is cost effective, then checkout HomeGain(A REALTOR®.
  • Homegain(A REALTOR®) does what most individual realtors(SELLERS) can't do themselves; i.e. garner thousands of visits a day based on brand name alone, aggregate hundreds of partners to send traffic to, manage millions of key words on Google, MSN and Yahoo to send visitors(FIND BUYERS) and build solid SEO(MARKETING) based on years of site history and content.
  • I think, however, its a tad ambitious to suggest that one day we will have a nation of individual realtors(SELLERS) all acting as sole proprietors handling every aspect of their businesses(TRANSACTIONS) with no third party help. You are correct, however, with the new tools today if one wants to give it a try, they can do it. If they want a little help, HomeGain(A REALTOR®) is there!"

Now folks, who would have a better chance of winning the business? The REALTORS® on Jeff's post or Louis?

 

104 Comments on HomeGain, FSBOs, Idiots and "going it alone"!

Reserved Parking For "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR! Blog Boy... Are you implying that calling the consumer an idiot on a public post is wrong? ........OVER. :) TLW...ROAR!

04/30/2008 04:33 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)

No one wins when they're giving negative and unprofessional feedback. They're just attracting bad attention to themselves. In this case of course Louis would have a better chance...in the long run...anyone who gave a professional opinion would be on the winning side.

 

04/30/2008 04:43 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), HAWAII Real Estate & HAWAII Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)

I agree with you.  Our blogs are still accessible to the public and we need to be very careful of our comments and our writing.  You only have one chance to make a first impression and the same applies to the internet.  Life is about choices and homeowners have choices just like anyone else.  Our job is to stand out as the best choice.

04/30/2008 04:44 PM by Huntsville Alabama Real Estate Agent, Kimberly Grant (Exit Leon Crawford Realty)

The drastic and dire consequences of an adverse market are straining folks' "nice" muscle. There has always been friction between private sellers and the real estate community. I for one don't understand nor do I condone it.

Unfortunately that animosity makes it all the more harder for agents who approach FSBO folks to do so.

Refraining from referring to another person as "an idiot or a moron"? Well, good manners and proper form never go out of style.

04/30/2008 04:45 PM by Andrew J. Lenza (ABR*GRI*MBA) Monmouth County NJ Real Estate Broker (Andrew J. Lenza Realty)

BB, Isn't it simply that people just don't think!?!  Seriously and unfortunately, I don't think that people take into consideration the possible implications of their actions and sometimes until it is too late.  I won't deny that I am not immune to that myself, for I am only human also.  I would like to think better of myself, but know differently.  Do not get me wrong, that still does not condone basically committing professional suicide to a degree, but.....

04/30/2008 04:49 PM by Marc Grossman, GRI - Central Florida Real Estate Specialist (Keller Williams Premier Realty)

Great Post! Whatever is out in the internet is for all to see, forever.

04/30/2008 04:55 PM by Patty & Scott Carroll - RE/MAX, Vancouver WA (RE/MAX Equity Group)

Bryant - you are so right.  I am constantly amazed at the comments agents leave in a public blog.  I took up Turners Task - and wrote a blog about FSBO's.  I tried to do it in a respectful way, I hope I did.  But then I got the  following comment:

  "What is it with FSBO bashing all the time.  Why don't you just admit you are scared to death of them.  Getting a little worried eh."   This was posted anonymously, and I can only assume the post was from a FSBO Seller who had read through the blog.  My gut instinct is that he came to my blog through Turners Blog and felt more comfortable posting the comment on my post rather than the one calling FSBO's idiots.  I don't think I bashed FSBO's - nor did the commenters.  But it is a perfect example of someone outside the real estate profession reading these posts - which probably only reinforces the idea he already has that REALTORS only care about making a buck - and not their client.   

 

04/30/2008 05:12 PM by Bo Buchanan-Blue60.com Directory For Real Estate Pro's (Blue60.com)

Bryant- There will always be sellers who want to sell their property themselves. That is their choice. It is their property. We are there to support them but in now way will give advice that may in any way make us liable as Lenn would say, the risk is too great. However, we can suggest websites to go to such as the county tax records and such to do their due diligence. 

There will always be those that want a full time experienced agent. We have our business model; there will always be sellers that choose our model and those that will not. 

And you are right, it makes us look bad when people make these snide remarks.  

04/30/2008 05:15 PM by Nestor & Katerina Gasset, Realtors® Wellington Florida Luxury Homes (International Properties and Investments, Inc.)

BB,

I've given a few FSBO's advice...as a matter of fact a FSBO that called me to sell their property and I couldn't because it was over priced and the seller couldn't lower it enough but he still wanted me to list it...well it never sold and they took it off the market....he recently called me to tell me he couldn't afford to pay us but asked me some advice about how much it would cost him in closing costs. I had no problem helping him...I wish it worked out but in time if he can't sell it he'll be knocking on my door again.

I think in the past I might have thought different but I figure that maybe people would refer me to their freinds who need an agent and were in a different situation. I have to bite my tongue sometimes because there were times when I would be told by the seller that they will never call me or any agent....they can stick the sign out and sell it themselves...yet some have called me later crying and asking me for help so you never know.

04/30/2008 05:23 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)

Neal, I do the same thing. There's nothing wrong with helping folks if we can. And we can certainly do that without giving legal advice or stepping into agency. Sometimes just listening is all they want. It WILL come back to you.

Katerina, I think everyone can decide whether or not they want to help. But if not...please just put a "lip lock" on :)

Bo, Great comment!!! I can assure you the consumer is here in force and reading every thing we write. I know because I get emails from them all the time. And from what I see going on in our industry the consumer has every right to come in with an attitude. Heck...REALTORS(R) give me a damn attitude too and I am one!!!

Patty, it's there and it ain't goin' nowhere.

Marc, It is human nature for us to take offense or get defensive. I've been reading a really good book about being reactive or being responsive. I'm actually pretty good at being responsive now but I certainly wasn't like that in my younger years. I learned the hard year. It's just something we have to keep practicing.

Andrew, I've never understood why there is that friction. I mean why would I care if someone wants to sell their own house? And I certainly don't mind talking about real estate with them. I'll talk real estate with anyone at any time. It's what I do .

Well stated Kimberly!!!

WooHoo, Right as always:)

TLW.....OVER. 

04/30/2008 05:41 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Broker Bryant, I did not have the opportunity to go over these blogs, but I can assure you I would have been shocked to see the comments you have posted (on Jeff's blog). There have been many times that I have freely given my advice to others without any expectation. I love helping people no matter in what aspect of life, real estate or non real estate matters. 

04/30/2008 06:01 PM by Camarillo CA Real Estate Agent/ Mana Tulberg (Beach View Real Estate)

BB- I think that we on occasion forget that others can read our replies, posts, etc. Then we fire off what we think is a great response... only to go oops.. I should of thought about that a bit more.

Anyone that wants to sell their house themselves should have every right to do so. It is a choice. I hope that we as a profession remember it's about choice. If we do that then we will find many people who will choose to use our services.

Best,

Scott 

04/30/2008 06:14 PM by Scott Cowan -Tacoma & Pierce County Area (Terry Wise & Associates)

I'm still cracking up at your exceeding clients expectations video.  Had not seen that one.  Will come back when I can concentrate on reading..  :)

04/30/2008 06:23 PM by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, Realtor ® The Woodlands, TX Real Estate (Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors ®)

You're exactly right... I know many FSBO's who are quite capable of marketing and selling their own homes.  Where that's the case, go for it.  In some cases it would be easier with an experienced broker, but the seller has to see the value in the service or it's not worth jack.  Sometimes, as a group, we don't project an image designed to help them see value but one that diminishes what little regard they already hold us in.  That's a shame... but it happens every day.

04/30/2008 06:25 PM by Fairbanks Real Estate Broker Jesse Clifton (Jesse & Kathy Clifton, REALTORS - 907.699.6024 - )

Well said and so right.  Sellers have choices and that's the way it should be.  Some sellers and some properties can be sold by home owners - more power to them.

04/30/2008 06:35 PM by Miriam Bernstein, CRS, Westchester County, NY (RE/MAX Prime Properties)

I'm guilty a leaving a slightly agitated comment on Jeff's post. I had just coming from answering yet another same old, same old question on Trulia when I popped over to AR and ready Jeff's post. I'm sure I didn't call any names, but I distinctly remember being in a mood where I was sick of hearing the same thing over and over and over again. Yes, I realize that's life. But some days, my fuse can be pretty short. Of course, 99.9% of the times, I'm successful at hiding it from a client, when they're standing in front of me. But some days, the pot boileth over ;)

04/30/2008 06:42 PM by Lisa Hill (Daytona Beach REALTOR®) (Adams Cameron and Company)

Bravo!  I am giving you a standing ovation for this post (not really...but you know what I mean).

04/30/2008 06:53 PM by Jessica Horton (Brio Realty)

Bryant, I think it can be an industry-wide attitude adjustment that is needed.  It's not just the agents who leave snide comments in public forums for all to see, but the bickering that occurs between real estate agents on blog posts, or the "you don't know nothin'" attitude that service providers hand out to real estate agents when they discuss blogging and Web 2.0 and what agents should or should not be doing.

All that negativity just really drains the industry of the respect that in most cases it deserves.  

04/30/2008 06:58 PM by Rebecca Levinson-R.E. Blogger/Connect2Agent (Connect2Agent)

Bryant

Thanks for the comments.

 

In spite of all the agents that vow not to use HomeGain, we do run a profitable business with thousands of customers, none of whom are in any type of long term contract.

They choose to work with us and they are satisfied.

There are 1.5 million Realtors and we are not foolish enough to think that we can capture all of them as customers.

If there are potential customers who want to go it alone they should.

I've learned in business that customers want to know that you have an interest in their success, irrespective of whether that success is with your product. Of course its better if you can satisify your customers with your products.

When we saw many of our customers take an interest in blogging we wanted to provide that function to them.

There are so many ways to be successful.

I am surprised at the level of conviction certain people have that they way they conduct business is the model to be emulated on an exclusive basis.

And if you don't conduct business the way they do, you are just an "idiot" 

 

 

 

 

 

04/30/2008 07:26 PM by Louis Cammarosano (HomeGain)

Great post. Let me add...I would rather see a FSBO with no MLS input.....rather then going it with a bad agent who will price high and not follow up and give the needed advice and guidance. That said if someone feels they can do the job without a Realtor...go for it.

I look at it this way...if you are the type of person who will drive 20 miles to save 4cents a gallon on gas...we likely wont get along anyway. The great news is it is your choice!

04/30/2008 08:03 PM by Team DiMuria, Katy Texas Realtors (Prudential Gary Greene Realtors)

Great Post.

Here is my 2 cents.  I have no problem helping people out.  I may not gain their business but they might mention me to somone else.  Like....I did it myself but I did meet this nice Realtor.  And as stated above, it is their choice.

04/30/2008 08:13 PM by Michele Ott (Henry Homes n more Inc. Licensed Iowa, Nebraska, S Dakota)

BB, we should know by now that people are more attracted by honey than by vinegar.  Ironically, since this post is public, the negative comments will be seen yet again - but hopefully in a far different context.

04/30/2008 08:13 PM by Brian Schulman - Your Lancaster County, PA Real Estate Professional (Coldwell Banker Select Professionals)

FSBO is not generally a good idea OK Bryant, I may have to buck the crowd here. Though you should never sound like an idiot as a professional, many of the comments other than the name calling were valid. FSBO's hear so many nice stories about how they can do it alone and then advertising about how you shouldn't pay a Realtor, a little wake up call is good because the mass media is feeding the notion you don't need a realtor.

If you are trying to list the home yes don't call them an idiot, but I lay down some straight talk to people who are selling FSBO and in a blog it's great because you aren't in their living room making them feel stupid, The fact is many don't sell and many have problems and then after they are in a mess need help getting bailed out. I think with a blog where they are able to get straight talk is just the venue for a little I told you so. Becuase they need to realize they may have avoided this if they hired a professional.

04/30/2008 08:22 PM by Spokane Real Estate - Ross Quintana (Team Quintana Real Estate - MJ McAdams Realty Lic#3015)

I didn't comment on the other blog. Before I came into the real estate business I was a FSBO a FSBO 3 times - 3 successful times. I will help a FSBO - have done so. I really liked your comparison of the two blog's comments.

04/30/2008 08:33 PM by Jo Soss | Bremerton WA Real Estate (Skyline Properties, Inc.)

BB--- Whats happening buddy? I cant wait for your next video.................

I agree with you, negative comments towards a consumer are simply uncalled for even if its on a completely different blogsite. Consumers read all of our content and comments so that type of behavior can come and nip you in the butt down the road. You just never know. Constructive criticism is appropriate as long as the proper language is used.

Eddy

04/30/2008 08:44 PM by Eddy Martinez (Nationwide Funding Group)

One of the major parts of our job is prospecting.  You never know where a client may come from, and often FSBO's do call in a Realtor when they haven't sold it themselves.  I've also represented buyers who ended up wanting to purchase a FSBO.  A professional finds a way to make it work.

With respect to snide comments - I think some people's fingers can type faster than their brains can process the implications of what they're saying.  Or maybe they don't care.  Or maybe they're an angry person.  We won't always agree, but we do have the inherent right to express our opinions. 

04/30/2008 08:45 PM by Gretchen Faber ~ LifeStyleDenver (The Kentwood Company at Cherry Creek)

I look at it this way.  Its no fun (for me) to go over to Zillow (just an example), and read about how much people hate Realtors, that we are horrible, and that we are all liars and theives.  On that same note I'm sure its not very fun to be a FSBO trying to save some money, and then get berated by us because he asked an honest question.  We have the opportunity to take the high road, and as professionals we should. 

I have seen people that did think to use a "professional", just to loose everything they have because of bad "professional" advice, but I have also seen some agents do things that make even my head spin for how miraculous they are.

The easy thing is to judge without knowing, the hard thing is to listen and ask questions.

04/30/2008 08:59 PM by Bryan Maynes - Dwellings Real Estate (Dwellings Real Estate)

Bryan

Its interesting how much people hate.

I find it odd that realtors hate HomeGain when our entire business model is based on helping realtors succeed.

I can't think of one profession that is universally adored.

Try this, I'll name a profession and think about how they are often characterized

doctors -quacks

attorneys -liars/ambulance chasers

teacher -lazy; they can't do so they teach

mechanics -theives

Reatlors are not alone in being unfairly maligned.

 

 

 

04/30/2008 09:04 PM by Louis Cammarosano (HomeGain)

Brilliant - It is all about choices and displaying unprofessional behavior in a members only or public post just goes to show you have a lot more learning to do.  Excellent post.

04/30/2008 09:05 PM by Justin Williams - Loan Officer (Prosperity Mortgage)

I have found that if you are willing to give advice away for free, without any expectations, people will trust you more and most likely, contact you to represent them when the need arises. For those agents that are too pushy, rarely do they see business knocking down their door.

04/30/2008 09:06 PM by Jennifer Kirby (Exit Realty Eden Prairie)

It always pays to keep things civil and on a positive note, especially on a public forum

04/30/2008 09:12 PM by Michael Eisenberg, Bellingham Realtor (Fairhaven Realty)

I appreciate what HomeGain is trying to do...It's a great idea.  Choices (competition) are good for all as it raises the bar and finds solutions.  Is the traditional RE model perfect?  Far from it.  Is HomeGain the answer? No, just another viable option.  Because this is a people game it will always involve a certain amount of chaotic principle and there will be lots of room for all positive ideas that place the consumer first.

04/30/2008 09:42 PM by Joe Hayden - Louisville, KY Homes for Sale (S.G. Priest Realtors)

Jennifer - Right on!

04/30/2008 09:59 PM by Gretchen Faber ~ LifeStyleDenver (The Kentwood Company at Cherry Creek)

Yeah that was some information that could have be kept to one's self.  I like the way you highlighted the word choice.

04/30/2008 10:01 PM by Leeshay Wright (Keller Williams Realty)

Bryant, I stopped by a FSBO Open House this weekend and I was surprised by how well organized this seller was, and how many things he had done to advertise his house.  I offered him my help in qualifying buyers and he put some of my cards by his material.  I still think that he would be better off working with a Realtor and offered to put him in touch with a couple of them that I work closely with.  He was grateful for the information and advice, and said that he would call me if he decides to list with a Realtor.

04/30/2008 10:03 PM by George Souto (McCue Mortgage Co.)

I'm like others who have commented I was a FSBO myself as well.  I think it helps to respect the person's point of view.  Nice comparisons as well.

04/30/2008 10:04 PM by Karen Moorhead Ann Arbor Area Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty)

My problem with home gain is that they do nothing but USE listings that were hard-won by Realtors and then sell them back to us for a very hefty percentage.  I'm not impressed because all it does is create another middle man and adds no value to the transaction. All this activity merely siphons offs prospects and makes my job harder.  with my split, I can't work for that referral fee. So these prospects are off the table to me and for WHAT? Because of a web site that CLAIMS to add value and does nothing but collect money. 

04/30/2008 10:15 PM by Ruthmarie Hicks (Keller Williams Realty)

I learned along time ago it does no good to bash a person's decisions. You do catch more flies with honey than vinegar. (I did cut and paste that last sentence!)

04/30/2008 10:19 PM by Portland Oregon Real Estate >> Wayne B. Pruner, GRI (Oregon First)

I think that the attitude in some of the remarks on Jeff's post was affected by the recent state of our markets. A great percentage of agents are struggling just to get any piece of business, so they view giving free advise with extreme disdain. The funny thing is that it works just the opposite -- give to get. Like others have pointed out, you may not get that particular seller, but there's always the possibility that they will refer other buyers and sellers to you.

04/30/2008 10:26 PM by John Novak - Las Vegas and Henderson NV Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty The Marketplace)

Ruth Marie

You must have heard that somewhere and got used to repeating it.

HomeGain unlike Trulia, Zillow, Frontdoor, Roost etal does NOT post listings on our site.

Other companies take the listings and then try to sell advertising around them or to have you pay to feature your own listings.

I don't have a problem with this as you are paying for the distribution that these companies are able to achieve.

HOWEVER, HomeGain does not do this! Rather our listings solution is simple. If, YOU the realtor have listings that you show on your web site, HomeGain will drive visitors to YOUR website on a pay per visit basis.


We don't take your listings, we don't display them -You the realtor do. What HomeGain does is sends you the traffic. We view the realtor as the show not our website. Its your show we bring the audience.

We believe the realtor is the one who knows all about real estate, not us.

 All of our marketing solutions feature you, the realtor.

I also never bought the middle man argument. Make it too much and you are arguing to remove realtors from the transaction.

Afterall why pay realtors when there is a willing buyer and seller-just let them go fsbo and do it themselves!

These people could parrot your quote "Because a website (Realtor) CLAIMS to add value and does nothing but collect money" (I am learning from Bryant here)l

If there is value in a "middleman" people will pay for the service.

We have gone full circle here in the spirit of Bryant's post-if you don't want to use HomeGain because you don't see the value, don't use us! 

04/30/2008 10:27 PM by Louis Cammarosano (HomeGain)

My momma taught me if you can't say nuthin' nice, then don't say nuthin'. Know what I mean? If you can help someone, great! If not, go squeeze on your stress ball a bit.

04/30/2008 10:29 PM by Terri Hayley (Keller Williams)

Your use of parenthesis and CAP text is pretty clever.

I made it to this site in a strange and twisted way. I saw your post when opened AR page, and then I logged and wanted to come back. So I typed "Bryant Tutas" in the search, but not on the top, there was another on the right. It opened another post, I started reading, there were links, I clicked one, did not quite agree with you and commented, and then noticed that i was in September 2006.

It was very interesting, especially, because I had a feeling that you were against me on the topic, while I was not even on AR yet for another year. Times change. We do not change.

It was interesting

04/30/2008 10:41 PM by Jon Zolsky (FunCoast Realty LLC)

positve beeds positve - and negative breeds negative - telling someone they are stupid will not make them realize we can help - I am with you on this one BB

04/30/2008 10:59 PM by Central Oregon Real Estate | Thesa Chambers, Broker (RE/MAX Sunset Realty La Pine)

Frankly,

I used to help FSBOs get on the MLS for a flat fee. A couple years later I wrote my Expose from the insider's point of view. This has been forwarded to hundreds of FSBOs by other agents, and has helped convert them. It shows every hurdle from the FSBO's point of view. None of the BS from Homegain (that Realtors use) about using SEO to sell a house, gimme a break.

Go FSBO! Save $20,000! Agent Tells All!

Frank 

04/30/2008 11:18 PM by Northern Virginia Homes - FRANKLY REAL ESTATE Inc

Frank please claify your statement

"None of the BS from Homegain about using SEO to sell a house, gimme a break."

Are you saying that it is HomeGain's position that SEO sells a house !

04/30/2008 11:21 PM by Louis Cammarosano (HomeGain)

And the Law does state that you don't have to use a Realtor. You can even choose to use a real Estate Lawyer, or neither. Professional courtesy should always over ride the need to insist on aq commission by bad mouthing people and saying they are idiots. I have known some past realtors that sell there own house. Does this mean that they are now idiots because they let there license laps. Thanks BB

04/30/2008 11:38 PM by Chuck Christensen

Bryant,

I stated it on Jeff's post and I'll say it here too, I sold my home myself before I became an agent and we did quite well.  Agent's who know of the sale couldn't believe we sold it for so much.  I don't think I was an idiot for selling myself. I was excited, energetic, and loved the entire process and that's why I decided to become a real estate agent.   

05/01/2008 12:04 AM by Fran Gatti - Crescent City CA Real Estate (RE/MAX Coastal Redwoods)

Sorry Louis,

You want a whopping 30% for just an address and phone number? PLEASE!  With the split I have and the commissions that prevail in my area I average less than $3k a deal.  I do NOT have the money fork over 30% to  a WEB SITE that provides the person who signs up with NOTHING.  What do YOU provide that increases the value to the buyer or seller? WHAT?  All you guys do is act as a big siphon because for some strange reason buyers and sellers think that somehow you carefully handscreen these wonderful agents.  They think they are getting VALUE - they are just getting a feeding frenzy of desperate newbies who can't get business any other way. I don't blame desperate agents for using you. But i think there would be less desperation if you weren't siphoning off leads from OUR HARD-EARNED WORK.  

With the split system that we have in my area only the most desperate of agents would use you.  How is a desperate agent good for the buyer/seller?

05/01/2008 12:22 AM by Ruthmarie Hicks (Keller Williams Realty)

Just because someone is an idiot, don't mean you can't be nice to them.  LOL

05/01/2008 01:40 AM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)

Bryant:

 I really enjoy your post and your power of reasoning!!!! 

 If we've heard it once we've heard it a thousand times you've got to give first to receive, right? That would mean showing respect to people by the words and the tone we use. That would also include giving respect to people who decided to sell on their own. Most people would agree (including REALTORS) that they would not appreciate name calling or  being talked down to, that is a big turn off. If we want to build a peaceful relationship with someone most of time it will happen with peaceful words. I know when someone attacks me with mean and hateful names or words I have to fight the beast in me --- not to attack back.

 Before becoming an agent  I had success selling my own properties and at times I did not. However, I didn't know the full scope of the number of lawsuits brought by buyers and lawyers. It's true not every For Sale By Owner  will get sued, but it's a chance a person takes. However, as a agent I would never do a transaction without E&O Insurance, the risk are too great.

05/01/2008 02:11 AM by H. Morris Benningfield

Ruthmarie,

With all due respect you are speaking about that which you do not know.  I have been fortunate to learn about the HG system since I started contributing on their blog.   I'm not a Realtor but I'm a marketer; a loan marketer. The marketing principles we utilize are similar.

1- You want a whopping 30% for just an address and phone number? 

Won't you pay a referral fee, to a licensed agent, for a homebuyer in say...Ossining? 

2- What do YOU provide that increases the value to the buyer or seller? WHAT? 

A trusted and efficient introduction.  That's valuable Ruthmarie; we all love those trusted introductions.

3- All you guys do is act as a big siphon because for some strange reason buyers and sellers think that somehow you carefully handscreen these wonderful agents.  They think they are getting VALUE - they are just getting a feeding frenzy of desperate newbies who can't get business any other way.

That's just frustration talking, Ruthmarie.  This is the topic about which you do not know.  Would you call Linda Davis or Missy Caulk "desperate newbies" ?   Good Lord!  Those ladies are experienced brokers with a team of buyers' agents.

4- I don't blame desperate agents for using you. But i think there would be less desperation if you weren't siphoning off leads from OUR HARD-EARNED WORK

This is what I'll never understand.  What the heck is HG siphoning from you ?  The man told you they don't aggregate listings, they're voluntarily displayed by the users.  Your ire should be directed at "stupid" people like Linda or Missy (who, of course, are stupid all the way to the bank).  It's easy to pick on the "big, bad lead seller" to air your frustrations  but I think your anger is misdirected.

5- With the split system that we have in my area only the most desperate of agents would use you.  How is a desperate agent good for the buyer/seller?

See #3.  I can't imagine anyone calling Linda or Missy (or Mitch Ribak, for that matter) "desperate". 

I think you should fire your broker, Ruthmarie!  She's the one siphoning your hard earned commissions ON EVERY TRANSACTION.  HG only wants what they deliver to you; and you don't have to take it.  Your broker's "vig" isn't voluntary.

05/01/2008 03:09 AM by America's #1 Mortgage Broker

Thanks for the link, BB.  A trusted link like you will help my SEO

05/01/2008 03:12 AM by America's #1 Mortgage Broker

I have another point to make.  This is the second time I've seen a member's business personally attacked in the comment threads.  First it was Dan Green of bring the Blog.  Now, it's Louis Cammaransano of Home Gain.  Louis is a new member (as was Dan).

If these guys are "making your job harder"...good.  that's called competition. Would anyone dare complain about a licensed real estate company this way?  Of course not; that would be unprofessional.  That is, exactly, what you are doing here, Ruthmarie.   I understand how hard it is to compete against a big company, Ruthmarie...but...you can beat Home Gain by using their strengths against them.  That's how I beat Bank of America, every single day.

 

05/01/2008 03:20 AM by America's #1 Mortgage Broker

Brian - that's the rate in our area. It is a function of ridiculously high splits unless you've been in the business for years combined with a market that is so saturated most agents in other parts of the country just can't even comprehend it. This placed heavy downward pressure on commissions, so commissions are lower and splits are much higher than in other parts of the country.  The top guns have squeezed the brokerages and they have squeezed the newbies.  The brokerages  are ALL THE SAME.  Splits are suspiciously inflexible in our area. The brokerages claim they can't survive without them. Many agents can't survive WITH THEM.   The only reason I put up with it is that I don't have a choice - its the only game in town.  They are all the same unless you want to be an employee - you are pretty much stuck. 

Many people with successful websites noticed something funny when sites like homgain came on the scene.  Suddenly the sites were producing far fewer LEADS....I wonder where they went???????? Hmmmmmmmm.  The traffic was being siphoned off to lead generators that provided NOTHING of value to either the consumer or the agent. The only reason agents use them is because they have managed with their power to simply siphon traffic FROM the agent web sites redirecting it to them.  Around here we pretty much try to boycott these services because we want them GONE.  In truth everyone did better without them and their wealth came at th expense of carefully maintained web sites. 

Given the situation, I would be shooting myself in the foot if I used them.  THose that used them in my former office were DESPERATE agents who were barely making their bills. They had to produce VOLUME to stay alive with the high splits AND the blood sucking fees. How they can produce value for the client for so little money baffles me.  MY guess is that they DON'T. They try and shove them through the deal as fast as possible.  Fact is if big sites like homegain were not SUCKING UP SO MANY PROSPECTS our blogs would be far more effective. I'll QUIT before I give bloodsuckers like that who make ME do all the leg work and sit back letting the money roll in get one RED CENT. NOT ONE PENNY to lead generators since they fail utterly to add value to the transaction. Sad thing is the consumer is being duped into thinking they are empowered.  think there would  a lot of people around here that would agree with me. that 1) the DON'T add value to the consumer, 2) the DO siphon traffic and 3) they do precious little to earn that amount of money. 

05/01/2008 03:58 AM by Ruthmarie Hicks (Keller Williams Realty)

As to FSBO's.  There are people who just think its easy. I do think we should write about how this is pretty much a LURE. The seller does not see the potential danger of the FSBO.  The danger is 

The listing becomes stale....

They spend too much time and MONEY on the FSBO

It takes far more time then they think  and they can't offer the exposure a brokerage can.

They are open to far more liability than they think.

The months of time they spend holding the house or unit far exceeds any savings the could have locked in.

They tend to sell for less than with an agent.

Seller's need to be able to do what they want.  BUT they need to have their eyes open to the risks as well as benefits. 

05/01/2008 04:05 AM by Ruthmarie Hicks (Keller Williams Realty)

So when I take a natural cure for an aliment such as a cold or flu or another illness, does my medical doctor call me an idiot?  No.  When I fix my own plumbing leak does my plumber call me an idiot?  No.  When i change my own oil does my mechanic all me an idiot?  No.  When I clean my own house does my housekeeper call me an idiot?  No.  I'm not going to perform my own brain surgery, or rebuild my transmission.  However, if a home seller wishes to sell their home on their own this in itself does not make them an idiot but for some folks it may not be the smartest way to go about things.  Kinda like if I was not mechanically inclined I should not be trying to change the oil in my car.  As in most things in life I try not to bite off more than I can chew.  However, I've done this a few times in my life and found myself in a fix and had to seek the advise of a professional and learned my lesson.  Sometimes it is better for me to call on the advise of a professional.  Does that make me an idiot?

05/01/2008 05:58 AM by Lynchburg, Roanoke & Danville Area Nannette Saunders ASSOCIATE BROKER (Bradner, Farmer, Towler and Associates)

I'm working with a FSBO-type seller at the moment. He paid x amount to a "Discount Broker" to get his listing in the MLS but does his own advertising etc. He contacted me by email asking if I had a buyer for his home. Not knowing what the circumstances were, I refered him to his agent to find him a buyer. I should mention that this particular seller does not offer compensation to transaction brokers, only to Buyer's Agents, which would be a single agent. I'm not a single agent and as far as I know there ain't any single agents in my MLS period. However, I replied that I do not have a buyer and asked if Mr. FSBO does receive regular market updates from his discount broker. He doesn't so I started sending him bi-weekly updates. He loves them and he recently reduced his asking price based on the updates I sent him. Two weeks ago, I met with him to preview his home. He's still convince he's gonna sell his home himself and that's alright. He's a very nice person and so is his wife. I told him that a Virtual Tour might help bring more attention to his listing. He said his "agent" doesn't do Virtual Tours. I wasn't about to use my account to do one for him but I found a website that lets you create slideshows from photos and I offered to set him up with this free service to do a "mock" Virtual Tour. He emailed me 20 photos, I did the slide show for him, sent hiim the link telling him to ask his agent to add it to the MLS. He was very appreciative. Unfortunately, the Virtual Tour hasn't been added yet, it's been two weeks. It didn't cost me anything to help him out. What did I gain from it? He thinks I'm a great agent. He trusts me! It will come to a point where his listing expires and he will then have to re-consider his situation. He might call me. Even if not - I'm meeting with them again today and he will give me a ton of sweet potato plants to put in my garden. It was worth the effort.

05/01/2008 06:10 AM by Andrea Mills YourHighlandsCountyRealtor (ERA Advantage Realty)

Bryant...  Business is ALWAYS earned; seldom GIVEN.  I came out of a business world where I had to claw and scrape for every piece of business I received and I understand that at the core.  Where many folks come off in our business thinking that the public should just immediately bow to a REALTOR every time they have property to sell is beyond my capacity to understand.  The option to use a REALTOR must be made the best option for them in their mind.  I think they call that sales and I think that is the real business that we are in...  Thanks for another great post!  Steve

05/01/2008 06:16 AM by Steve Homer (The HBH Group (Keller Williams affiliate))

 "NOT ONE PENNY to lead generators since they fail utterly to add value to the transaction. "

Ruth

HomeGain is not supposed to add value to the transaction (that is your job). HomeGan helps you get the transaction, its called marketing.

Paying the electricity bill, the phone bill, the rent, your printing costs, etc don't add any value to the transaction either. Do you object to those costs too? 

Being a realtor is hard work and there is no free ride. Complaining about the existence of homegain is like complaining about the free market and competition. In a free market system valuable goods like exposure to customers and leads will be distributed in the most efficient manner. If a company like homegain does it more effectively because of economies of scale, superior acumen or business practices, then HomeGain will continue to operate a successful business, which you can chose to work with or not.

Absent a change in our capitalistic system, Homegain and other marketing service providers will continue to exist. No professionals, including realtors, are entitled to be free from competition.   

Complaning about homegain is a futile endeavor. It may make you feel better, it may get you some active rain points, it may make you popular among other agents, but it won't make you any money.

05/01/2008 07:11 AM by Louis Cammarosano (HomeGain)

Good post - You are right, most of the comments to Jeff's post were not very productive. I've never used homegain, but I think I'll take a look at what they are doing.

05/01/2008 07:13 AM by Nashville Real Estate - Larry Brewer (Keller Williams)

BB,

I`m a firm believer of COMPETITION!

It seperates the "winners from the whinners"...

05/01/2008 07:15 AM by Scott Daniels Florida Real Estate 2.0. Agents Earn 100% Commission. (Florida List For Less Realty, Inc. Broker/Owner. )

 

I did not know that HomeGain has a blogging platform!  I missed that.  I don't get out much. I am not a fan of HomeGain, I subscribed once for a very short time.  I wish them well on their blogs. 

I missed Jeff's post too. People in all sorts of markets, have to do what they have to do to get their homes sold. Buyers market, sellers market....  As for homeowners who decide to go it alone, it certainly doesn't make them an idiot.  I cringe when I see people in the industry disparage home owners for making choices.

05/01/2008 07:23 AM by Maureen McCabe - Central Ohio real estate (Real Living HER)

BB, I think that it's a GOOD thing that certain real estate agents choose to call consumers "idiots." Makes a consumer's decision much easier when they decide to hire a Realtor- isn't blogging about transparency? You can't get much more "transparent" than that- "List with me, you IDIOT"- as a consumer, I'd much rather know beforehand that the underlying position of a potential agent is anger over legitimate choices so that I am able to avoid that agent like the plague.

05/01/2008 07:50 AM by Options Realty

I guess it is the difference between getting 25 points or not (kidding!) for a response.

I do believe in helping consumers.  I do believe if you answer with an informative answer to show that you are the expert, you will win the sale + referrals.  Using names and guilt to push someone into a sale will make you a snake oil salesman.  Good luck getting referrals when you use those tactics!

05/01/2008 07:55 AM by Renee Burrows - Las Vegas NV Real Estate (Nevada Realty Solutions)

I see more and more FSBO's in the area I work. Yes I ask if I can inform them on the benifits they get with listing with an Agent. I understand the hard times for many not just in my community but across the U.S. and people feel they need to try to get everything they can out of their property and also feel they can lower the price without having the commission added. All I can do is to inform them in times like these with a surplus of houses the property they are trying to sell even if it is "priced to sell" is probably never going to be seen by the potential buyer because of all the marketed and forclosed properties "priced to sell" 

05/01/2008 08:21 AM by Rob Lynn (Exit Real Estate of Ludington)

I get calls from FSBOs and BUBBAs all the time.  I am always nice.  I am never helpful.   It's not because they're not paying me for my advice.  It's because I do not take the risk of giving real estate advice to individuals I do not represent. 

If a home owner chooses to sell his home without the assistance of a licensed real estate agent/broker, he does so under his own authority, generally to avoid paying a real estate fee.  He risks that his decisions will be the right ones. 

If he then contacts a licensee for advice, any agent who will give real estate advice for free is a fool because, while he is not being paid for hard earned knowledge and experience, he is also taking risk that whatever he says or "shudder" writes, can come back to haunt him. 

I don't for a second object to FSBOs.  This is the USofA and a property owner has the right to do what they wish with their property.  However, they can't expect a person with valuable experience and knowledge to work for him for nothing. 

When I tell them that I can't help them because I don't represent them, they often ask where should they start their research.  I suggest real estate school.

But, I'm always nice. 

05/01/2008 09:07 AM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate

Hey Louis,

Sorry, I was speed reading. The (Realtor) stuff threw me off. I thought you were saying that Homegain was telling FSBOs to use Realtors since they use SEO. I know one Realtor that brags about being 1st for a phrase like XYZ Area Homes, I'm sorry but that might get him new leads, it will NOT sell a listing.

Frank 

05/01/2008 09:24 AM by Northern Virginia Homes - FRANKLY REAL ESTATE Inc

Hi Frank

Thanks for the clarification 

I agree being first in SEO, or having the most traffic gets you nothing other than being first in SEO and a lot of traffic.. To sell homes you have to convert your visitors and be a good realtor.

HomeGain