Short Sale Primer - Back Room Lender Decisions

A Primer -

Short sales are nothing new.  When I represented a national lender for all of their foreclosures in the State of Florida several years ago, we negotiated "loan workouts" which are now called "short sales".  Since they have been around so long, I did some digging with my old pals that were the executives I worked with in the loan workout and REO department of this national lender (the lender has since been merged into Bank of America).

I found one in Atlanta, and another in Washington.  Our discussion about short sales showed that nothing was new under the sun - the formulations and decision making processes were unchanged from 15 years ago - and only some of the terminology had changed.  Another executive of that lender was found in Florida and she now works with me in the client management and lender negotiation of our client's loan workout situations.

Short sales are a process of "shorting" the debt (the mortgages) encumbering a parcel of real estate (the house or investment property).  Shorting the debt means that the person holding the debt (the lender) agrees to release its lien on the real estate for less than the amount the lender is due according to the promissory note.

The explanation is simple.  The execution and the details of a short sale are highly complicated.  The chemistry of each short sale situation is not identical and quite often the goal you want to achieve is a moving target seemingly and frustratingly impossible to reach.  More detail in some of the methodology to a short sale is in a previous article (see link - What do I do? - I can't pay my mortgage).

Who Qualifies - And Why A Lender Would Want The Loan Paid Off -

You can read discussions on who qualifies for a short sale in a previous article (see this link  Some Sellers Think They are Entitled to a Short Sale and Economics 101).  Technically, everyone can qualify for a short sale.  To understand this we need to become more, well, "technical".

Logically, a lender is not going to want to keep a secured loan on its books where it has evidence that the security has decreased in value dramatically and the loan to value ratio under which the loan was originally made is now "upside down", meaning the value is less than the amount of the loan.  The portion of the loan that is not in compliance with the original loan to value ratio is, for bank auditing purposes (or investment valuation purposes if the loan is not a portion of a mortgage backed collateralized security) and therefore is not considered secured.  That is bad since it makes the lender set aside reserves of cash for the lack of value in the loan.  The lender needs to do something to change that situation.

Depending on the language in your mortgage or your promissory note, the valuations being upside down could be reason to put your loan into breach and call the promissory note.  I have not seen this done as of yet by any residential lender.  But technically, if a property is in this upside down situation, the loan could already be technically in default.

Often, the desire to unload the upside down property is made based on economic calculations made by the owner of the property.  Those calculations usually show that it is better to take a loss now of a known amount of money rather than continue to pay interest, insurance and taxes in excess of the income from the property for an unknown period of time until rental or property values increase so the economic cash drain is reversed.

In any event, the lender would prefer to have the loan right side up or off its books.  In some cases the property owner has excess cash laying around and can just sell the property (if that is their plan) and pay the amount to the bank that they are "short" at the closing so the loan is paid off in full.

In other cases, usually where the borrower has become financially distressed but also where the borrower is asset rich but presently is lacking liquidity (I call it financial indigestion), other arrangements satisfactory to the lender can be accomplished.

These other arrangements usually come in two flavors: (1) providing alternative secured collateral to the lender, such as a first or second mortgage on another borrower owned property that has equity value, or (2) having the borrower sign a new or modified promissory note that is unsecured and payable over a fixed period of time, usually 3 to 10 years from the date of the short sale.

Where the borrower is experiencing extreme financial hardship, a third alternative can occur, which is actual forgiveness of the unpaid amount to the lender.

This leads us to the issue of the unpaid portion of the short sale.  Many lenders will not provide a release of the balance due.  This causes some good and some bad issues for the borrower.  The good part is that without a final disposition of the unpaid portion, the borrower has not received any phantom income (i.e.: that 1099 stuff).  This good news does not last forever.  Once the statute of limitations on enforcement of the promissory note expires, then the borrower has that income to report to the IRS.  The bad news is that the lender very well may sell the unpaid promissory note to some investor for 5 or 10 cents on the dollar and then that investor will definitely come after the borrower for as much as they can get above that 5 or 10 cents on the dollar.  The small element of good news here is that as long as they are trying to collect on the unpaid portion, that unpaid portion is not income that the borrower has to report to the IRS.

Short But Important Reminder On The 1099 -

As a short reminder, the big deal about 1099's is really an illusion.  1099 or no 1099, if the debt is forgiven, the borrower has income to report to the IRS.  No exceptions!  Too many people come to me and say they want me to negotiate with the lender so that they don't get a 1099.  I ask them why?  They tell me that if they don't get a 1099, they don't have to report the income they would get on the debt they did not pay.  The next question is why does the bank get to decide what the IRS usually has jurisdiction to decide?  The answer is of course that the lender giving a 1099 means squat - unless the borrower is intent on committing tax fraud by not reporting income.  What relief that is available to the borrower are two opportunities to not recognize up to all of the income.  These are discussed in detail in my article on the Sellers Always Have Income.

Short Sale "Bookends" -

Note that these are the general parameters that we have seen over several years of dealing with loan workouts.  There are always exceptions where the decision of the lender is simply without logic.

Illogical example #1 - The borrower is without a job, has moved out of the house and is living with one of the spouses' parents out of state.  The house is now valued at $190,000 to $210,000 and the loan is at $350,000 and has been on MLS at $200,000 for 3 months.  One quarter of the homes in the neighborhood are in some kind of pre-foreclosure or distress.  The lender refuses to accept a contract at $178,000.

Illogical example #2 - The borrower owns two businesses and shows annual gross income of $500,000.  Borrower has 4 homes all investment and lives in another (5 altogether).  Lender accepts a short sale on one investment home at 10% under value, leaving $70,000 short on the mortgage payoff.  Borrower asks for a letter of release from the lender that it will not pursue the shortage on the promissory note and the bank gladly provides that letter, letting the borrower off from every having to worry about the shorted promissory note.

I call these the "bookends" to the short sale definition of what fits the parameters of the banks.  As you can see, even the bookends can be moving targets, since neither makes any sense.  Fitting everything else in the middle leaves a really big gray area on the fringes of the middle!

No Science To The Short Sale -

There is no set course to the successful short sale presentations to the lender.  We have seen 5 page packages and 50 page packages get approved.  It depends on the lender.  It depends on the borrower's situation.  It depends on the property.  Notwithstanding, we find that the best opportunity for a short sale to be successful is to provide a simple yet complete package to the lender - keep it simple - but back up the assertions made in the presentation.

You have probably heard about the one, two or even three months to get the bank to even start to move on a short sale application.  Again, this is hit and miss.  This winter we made two presentations to the same lender, one in early March and one in mid April.  Same neighborhood.  The April package got a BPO call from the lender in only 2 weeks.  We are still waiting on the March package! (Yes, we confirmed that the lender has it and they confirm that they are working on it).

Lender Overload -

It appears that since most lender loss mitigation department personnel are carrying 500 to 600 files per person, the best opportunities for success should be on the packages that are clear cut, summarized, and organized.  But each package must be accompanied by someone that will call the lender to get status reports on the package at least weekly. I was amazed with one lender when we called them to ask why the lender had not even acknowledged that they received the package.  Incredibly, the answer was that they take no action on any package received until someone calls to find out the status on the file!

Short sales have a long history of being in the arsenal of lenders for loss mitigation and loan workout issues.  Used properly, the short sale can be a benefit to the lender and the borrower and an opportunity for a buyer with patience to obtain a relative bargain in the marketplace.

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@FLORIDA-COUNSEL.COM - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com For a complete listing of articles by Mr. Zaretsky see: SHORT SALES AND MORTGAGE MODIFICATIONS TABLE OF CONTENTS

 
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61 Comments on Back to Basics - a Review of Short Sales

MAY
04
2008
650,412 Points 264 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Really great info Richard. Two things stood out for me:

1: The lack of a 1099 does not release the seller from a tax liabilty. Well duh......why didn't I think of that? The income is still there. Makes sense.

2. The promissory note. I lost a short sale last year because the lender demanded a promissory not be signed. They started at $135,000 and we got them down to $40,000. The seller was advised by their attorney not to sign and the house got foreclosed on. So I'm thinking.....what would be worse on the sellers credit a foreclosure or a deliquent note for $40,000? If it were me I think I would have signed the note.

7:05am • #1
5 Featured Posts

You are right in my book, Bryant!

Besides, the borrower who signs a promissory note then has the opportunity to re-negotiate or discount down the promissory note at a near distant date.

It's definitely the way to go!

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@FLORIDA-COUNSEL.COM - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com

7:54am • #2
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Richard, I had flagged this for a feature but looks like it got overlooked. I think I will write about this tomorrow and link back to you, if you don't mind? My post will get noticed and it will get this info out there. It's important. Who knows.....maybe you'll get some business from it. 
5:04pm • #3
1 Featured Post

Richard:

An excellent well written post that really gets to the heart of short sale transactions. Thanks for getting the information out to the AR community.

5:20pm • #4
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Thanks Richard.  I've been telling folks for months now that short sales are nothing new.  I've had them from time to time since the late 1980s. 

What we didn't expect was for them to go out and multiply the way they have. 

The problem now is that folks are going to short sale resulting from loans.  Over the years it was due to loss of job, illness, or just plain poor management of their money.  Today's short seller is different.  But, the process is the same.

 

7:53pm • #5
373,332 Points Outside Blog
This is a very good post. There is so many agents who have never done a short-sale and then they are confronted with one. It is good to have resources such as your post. Thanks.
7:54pm • #6
190,839 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
This is a fact pact post that can educate lots of folks. Thanks
8:57pm • #7
160,807 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Richard, this is the most thorough and detailed Active Rain post I have ever read - great job!
8:57pm • #8
I have three short sales going at this time. Can you give me some tips on how to make the lenders move faster.
9:02pm • #9
121,298 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Wow, that was a great post. I don't know much about these. I am going to bookmark this for future reference.    
9:15pm • #10
5 Featured Posts
Lisa - maybe because I grew up in Northern New Jersey?
10:03pm • #11
Very informative post on short sales, which I have bookmarked as well.  Thanks.
10:10pm • #12
5 Featured Posts

Thank you all for your plaudits on this post.  I had not written anything for a week or so.  But I was creating a list of topics and real life stories.  Maybe I need to run a reality TV program out from behind my desk!

To the no-name person who commented at 9:02 pm, there are no magic wands to get the lender to respond.  There is one technique that gets there attention though.  In my office if a file is silent for 3 weeks we begin calling twice a day every day until we get a meaningful status report.  We have called and found out that they misplaced the file and then they re-set the order in which it is being processed.  By re-setting the order I don't mean they move it UP in the pile -- NOOOOO! they move it BACK!!!!!!!!!!!  That usually requires a call from a senior person in my office, likely ME.  Time is money and I don't like my money burning away because someone at the bank "lost" our client's file!

You gave no detail on your situation - the best solution in the future is to find an attorney that specializes in this field and let them do the work.  Realtors expertise is in advice and representing sellers and buyers in the selling and buying process -- ie - finding them the right house.  Don't play doctor.  It will waste your precious time and resources!

10:14pm • #13
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Richard......this is a thorough and complete post on short sales.  Thanks for your post.
11:14pm • #14

Great post, Richard.  Seems to me, that to move these files off the books faster, it would make sense for the lenders to hire more people to handle these files?  Don't they lose more money the longer they sit around?  Seems intuitive to me, but I am not a lender.

While I prefer NOT to represent buyers on a short sale, if that is the property they want, I will do so.  I warn them it could take 2 or three months to hear back from the bank, but I ugess they don't believe me.  My last short sale buyer bailed after no news from a large not to be named lender after 8 weeks!!

11:28pm • #15
MAY
05
2008
1 Featured Post

Richard, I was under the impression that the lender usually forgave the discrepancy between the sale price and balance owed and am sorry to hear that many lenders won't. Do you think that in all cases where the balance isn't forgiven that the borrower should sign a promissory note or should they consult a real estate attorney first?

Is it your opinion that Realtors should leave all the short sales to attorneys? I'm working on several short sales now and want to do what's best for my clients. Thanks for your help.

5:25am • #16
5 Featured Posts

Colleen -

You raise an interesting question - should short sale negotiation be left to attorneys?

I think the problem here is that the whole process of a short sale is sort of developed into a sub-specialty of real estate law.  If the attorney is going to do just a few, he can probably handle it after going to a continuing legal education seminar about them. But as you probably know, short sales take a lot of man hours to get done.  At a couple or more hundred dollars an hour, using your local real estate attroney gets expensive quickly.  There are a few firms that can do these in greater numbers, such as my own, and that is because specific infrastructure in the law office was created to handle them efficiency and at lower cost.

Another issue you raise is "what is best for my clients".  It is my impression that most non-lawyers handling short sales provide "advice" that deals with legal implications and most state bar associations would consider that advice when provided by a non-attorney to be the unlicenced practice of law (UPL).  Simply put, as a non-attorney you can be a paper pusher and form filler outer, but you can't tell the client how to fill out the form.

Lastly, the lender may ask for a new promissory note.  This will really be a modification of the old promissory note that was secured by the mortgage (that has now been released off the property).  Somethimes it may be a new promissory note. Sometimes it can just be a letter that modifies the terms of the referenced old promissory note.  In any case the new or modified note is just a replacement for the old larger note and it will have different terms for repayment.  Entering into the new document is just like the first closing - where they probably did not use an attorney anyway.  The new or modified note will have legal terms.  Let me put it to you this way, I have a "tag line" introduction when I speak to groups - "Pay me now or pay me more later".

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@FLORIDA-COUNSEL.COM - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com

6:58am • #17
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Thank you for this article.  I'm glad that it was Featured and I have bookmarked it for future reference.  We have negotiated many short sales over the past couple of years.  Our local Board has seen a marked increase in foreclosures and short sales within the last 12 months.  You're right...these types of transactions are unpredictable, but with patience and perserverance and the grace of God...they can be resolved successfully.
7:42am • #18
I think in the end the banks are better off shorting a property rather than foreclosing on it.
9:36am • #19
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Richard- This is a very concise post and very well written. We are very successful in our short sales with getting 100 % of them approved.  We refer all the foreclosure defense to an attorney which buys us more time to do the short sale.  We have been very successful, about 90% in getting the lender to give a fully satisfied mortgage at closing on the short. We have a few clients who filed bankruptcy in order to get rid of the second who seem to be the ones that want notes signed and deficiency judgments. 

In the debt relief act, if the homeowner has lived in the house as their primary residence for 2 out of 5 years than they do not get 1099'd. Also, even if an investor does get 1099'd, these days, most of them are insolvent.

Patience is the main skill one must have in order to work in short sales. Katerina

10:04am • #20
Well, I appreciate the info, but as often with attorneys it is way too careful and convoluted.  Consequently it'll wind up confusing people who are new to short sales rather than helping them very much.  Basically with short sales you have to impress on the buyers that they have no control over anything, that the short sale process is long and you won't get any concrete answers.  Usually the bank will accept around 8-10% less than is owed.  That may be changing now because they are flooded with these.  Mr. Zaretsky's post was totally oriented to the seller - there is another partie the buyer.   It was also confusing because he forgets that this is a nationwide forum and in many areas attorneys are not part of the transaction (no closing attorney) although clients can always be represented by one if they wish.  Now that I am done griping - I did find the dropping value short sale an interesting concept - I think they're being done in California and Las Vegas.  I bet that within a year almost all of us will have done at least one short sale. 
kathy Judy
10:09am • #21
This was well written in helping us as Realtors understand the ins and outs of a short sale.  Thanks for the info!
2:14pm • #22
429,275 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Richard...

I thought I should at least stop by and add my thanks :)

Looks like there may be hope for my allowance after all :)

TLW...ROAR!

3:47pm • #23
5 Featured Posts

TLW -

You guys are a blast!  Thanks for the help .............

4:07pm • #24
Richard-I was directed here by BB and I'm glad I found you.  As if by divine intervention: I was reading this post and a client called me regarding this very topic!  Because of this post I had a couple extra questions and "tools" at my disposal.  Thanks for the information.
4:30pm • #25
109,732 Points 11 Featured Posts
RICHARD, With the debt relief act I was under the impression the debt forgiveness did not have to be reported to the IRS and was not taxable. Am I mistaken?
5:52pm • #27
My understanding was that if it was purchase money, it MAY not have to b reported, but it was a refi, it would.  Looks like we all need clarification on this!  Whcih illustrates very clearly why as realtors we must tell clients to consult their tax professional or an attorney!
6:11pm • #28
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Hi Richard,

Ditto on the re-direct from BB and his follow up post. Yours is one of the best I've seen as a tutorial on the subject. And yes, we did many of these ourselves in the early 90's.

With the exception of the IRS issues, I don't think they (short sales) are treated the same in all states. The majority of our loans in CA (on residential that is) are non-recourse (non judicial foreclosures) loans if indeed they are purchase money loans.  Yet a different set of rules apply of HELOCK's and re-fi's. Therefore, most borrowers here wouldn't entertain signing an additional promissory note of repayment.

And I too hve the same question as Cameron above, I also thought the forgiveness on loans was for a small "window in time" depending when the loan was originated?

6:20pm • #29
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Sent from BB's post. We have been waiting 3 months on an offer we put in, house on the lake went to foreclosure, we resubmitted to the new agent. Two weeks ago we called and they said to call back in 10 days, so we did. Nothing, just found out today the Broker is the LA, he won't return calls. Secretary again says, call in 10 days we still don't have the file. 

We offered over what was owed, what is wrong with banks that they could have been out from under this 3 months ago, cash offer. Now different Realtor/Broker. 

6:37pm • #30
5 Featured Posts

Hellow questions about what is and what is not to be declared as income on the borrower/seller's 1040 - I have written a few articles on this exact subject.

The real short answer is:

1.  EVERYTHING is to be included as income on the 1040.  There is no such thing as income that is not reported to the IRS.  And remember, it is not the person who pays that is supposed to report it -- IT IS THE RECIPIENT.  Here, it is the forgiven debt and the Seller who has ultimate responsibility.

2.  SOMETHINGS are allowed to be SUBTRACTED from the income.  Those are two "allowances for non-recognition of income".  The first is the Debt Forgiveness Relief Tax Act and the second is the insolvency rule of the IRS.  A careful discussion of exactly how these two rules work are in these posts (links embedded):  Forgiveness Act (and the previous article lined therein) and  It's All Income.  There is a special form that is to accompany the 1040 of the taxpayer/seller/borrower.

The only rules for the Debt Forgiveness Act is that (1) you need to pass a 2 year long primary residence rule, and (2) the basis for the amount you can subtract from is the sum of all mortgages you used to buy the house, improve the house, refinance mortgages that are for purchase or/and home improvement.  Examples on how to apply the rule are in the above articles.  So there is no "window in time" except that you got a few more years to the Debt Forgiveness Act before it expires.

So again - the big rule is EVERYTHING that is income is reported to the IRS, 1099 or not - purchase money mortgage or not.  It is the TAXPAYER's obligation.

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@FLORIDA-COUNSEL.COM - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com

 

8:47pm • #31
463,119 Points 17 Featured Posts Outside Blog
You know what I think is frustrating for real estate agents is that we're trying to keep up with all the changes on our end, and at the same time, trying to be able to educate our clients on the mortgage end also. I'm going to bookmark this for future reference and I think I'll post a blog about my own issues.
10:30pm • #32
115,417 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog
We were doing short sales five years ago, so it is really funny to hear people ask if I have heard of a short sale. I tell them this is nothing new, only that more people are utilizing it. Thanks for all the great information and helping educate people on the subject.
10:41pm • #33

Richard,

Thank you for all of the information!  Your explanation was seamless.  I am going to print this for a couple of my agents to read.

10:44pm • #34
MAY
06
2008
10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor
Richard, this is by far the best material I have ever read on short sales, your post and your comments.  As a mortgage loan officer, I often talk with people who are upside down and only can recommend that they talk with a lawyer of a CPA with experience in short sales.  I now have a much better sense in how I must approach them.  These are trying times.  There are so many people that need help.  AJ
1:17am • #35
230,033 Points 22 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Fantastic post, Richard. All I can add is to say I'm glad we're not flooded with short sales.  Real estate can be enough of a headache without this stress.  

3:39am • #36
2 Featured Posts

Richard- Excellent information! I have bookmarked for future reference. Thank you for posting such a well written article for us.

Best,

Scott 

2:15pm • #37
MAY
07
2008
1 Featured Post

Richard, thank you for your very thorough post. I have a question for you: am I correct in thinking that when a short sale occurs, the seller/property owner is still on the hook for the money owed to the bank (by way of signing the new promissory note), but on a foreclosure the debt is forgiven? 

You wouldn't believe the people whom I've spoken with lately who think they can just do a short sale because they don't want their house anymore. They want something new but don't want to bother with trying to sell their current home for retail in this market, so they expect the bank to just renegotiate the loan amount. My jaw drops when I hear this... we are definitely living in interesting times.

 

5:02pm • #38
5 Featured Posts

Jenn -

For most jurisdictions (those were a mortgage is a "recourse" as opposed to a "non-recourse" obligation), a foreclosure is going to result in a deficiency decree.  In a short sale, there is no judgment entered I have a full article on this called Foreclosure Deficiency Order vs. Short Sale Negotiated Payback.  See the link for the answer you need.  Some additional information not related in that article is that a short sale may result in an agreement with the lender to repay a portion or all of the "shortage" but that repayment can be at a negotiated interest rate over a negotiated period of time.  Or of course the shortgage can be forgiven and there will be no attempt to collect that shortage from the borrower.  In any event, there is no "judgment" that occurs in a short sale.

I have come across realtors and mortgage brokers hawking a short sale as opposed to a regular sale - so they can get a commission on a sale / purchase and /or a loan.  Fortunately, I don't hear about those everyday - several times a month is enough.

Thanks so much for reading and commenting on the blog!

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@FLORIDA-COUNSEL.COM - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com

5:39pm • #39
MAY
08
2008

That was an excellent article. I have also been involved with companies doing loan modificaitons and have submitted Mod requests on the clients behalf (pushed paper)

There is no set rule.  I agree, most lenders are back logged, you can not speak to the actual negotiator for status unless you stalk them. They rarley call back. It is a constant follow up game with these lenders. You have to be on the ball or it will get lost through the cracks. I have had lenders like Countrywide tell me that they can not mod a loan because the rate is not set to adjust within the next 90 days but they should start to clip coupons and get someone to rent a room...

I have an investment property that I will be listing for a short sale. It was my primary for 2.3 years. My CPA said that the tax hit on the 1099 would be approx 25%

However this is where all the confusion comes in! I actually called the IRS to inquire about the 1099 issue. I was told by an agent that even if I was $50,000 deficient and got a 1099A or C for that, it would be listed under schedule D. He also instructed me to other worksheets ( form 4797) and publication 544

He said that they take the sales price ($225k) - basis ($245K which is the purchase price + improvements) and since it would be a negative figure ( Since you cant subtract 245 from 225 it actually wipes out on the schedule D and we would not have to pay tax on that! He then said that even if there was a gain, we would qualify for the max exclusion anyway because it would be under $500k 

 I figure the IRS should be correct but my CPA didnt tell me that. Maybe they have not had alot of experience with short sales??

What are your thoughts?  They made it sound like even though i will list it as income it wipes out.

 

Thanks

Melissa

 

 

Since the pay  

   

Melissa Schaub- Mortgage Processor, Lake Worth Florida
4:04pm • #40
5 Featured Posts

Melissa

My initial impression is that your accountant was on the right track.  The IRS person was not getting the right story from you. 

The IRS person focused on your gain over your basis.  He did not look at the short sale side of the transaction at all.  Schedule D is for capital gains and losses.  A short sale is not a sale involving Schedule D.

So your figuring the IRS is correct is incorrect.  Go with your accountant's advice.

Richard Zaretsky, Esq., RICHARD P. ZARETSKY P.A. ATTORNEYS AT LAW, 1655 PALM BEACH LAKES BLVD, SUITE 900, WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 33401, PHONE 561 689 6660  RPZ99@FLORIDA-COUNSEL.COM - FLORIDA BAR BOARD CERTIFIED IN REAL ESTATE LAW - We assist Brokers and Sellers with Short Sales and Consult with Brokers and Sellers Nationwide!  Shortsales@Florida-Counsel.com

4:33pm • #41
294,728 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

One experience I've seen with a lender, I believe now absorbed by Bank of America, is that the moving target sadly became a ball in a roulette wheel essentially representing the three flavors you mentioned, The ball being the house of a client, represented by one of my company's agents, throughout the short sale negotiations. This lender foreclosed and lost 30k at the courthouse as opposed to what they could have accepted in the short sale offer from a qualified buyer, well in advance of the trustees notice. The lender decimated the families credit and was horrifically negligent. They intentionally evaded the responsibility to respond timely to correspodence and telecommunication inquiries from the homeowner and her agent.

Thank you, Richard, for your excellent post. Hope your having a fine week.

5:04pm • #42
5 Featured Posts

David -

Thanks for the thank you!  Funny - I am working on a restaurant lease as you posted - the name is going to be Memphis Ribs and Blues - but it is here in Palm Beach.  The owner is a fan of the Rendevous!

Say Hi to the Lansky's - the sell mighty fine belts -- and as they say, "Buy Moore - Buy Moore!"

5:26pm • #43
MAY
09
2008
294,728 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi, Richard ! My great grandmother drove Bernard to his store on Beale Street daily in the mid 1950's before he owned a car. He put all of the money in the store. As a child I remember sitting in the car with my grandmother, Rachel Herzog, in her 1955 Buick, waiting for Bernard to leave his home to walk across the street to her driveway around 5:30 am each morning. My great grandmother also owned a clothing store and a hotel, in addition to other properties, on South Main Street, so taking Bernard to work was fine with her because it was on the way to her store. I spent the weekends with her when I was a child and remember everything like it was five minutes ago. I love the Lansky's dearly. I spent the first six months of my life living across the street from Bernard Lansky, his beautiful wife Joyce, and played together with their children , Hal and Anise, through much of my childhood. Bernard passed eighty recently and there's no stopping him. He's still very quick witted and extremely funny. His sense of humor would have floored Milton Berle. My mother and Joyce continue to visit and are very, very good friends. Anise married Jack Belz's son, Ronnie.

Great news about Memphis Ribs. If it's modeled after the Rendezvous it'll stay packed. Hope you got a 'percentage lease'. Or lifetime privileges to eat there. :-)

I'll probably speak with Bernard soon and mention that I spoke with you. My father jets in every now and then to visit and hang out with his pals (the ones that are still living) :-) and we usually spend part of a day with Bernard. His store is on the lower level of the Peabody Hotel in a beautiful setting near the fountain.

I'm honored to know you, Richard, and look forward to reading, and studying, your articles. The Active Rain community benefits greatly from your work and by learning from your wisdom. Your article regarding the complexity of the short sale is outstanding. It places it in perspective for many who would find it much more challenging without your guidance. Hope this weekend is a fine one for you.

 

10:37am • #44
MAY
10
2008

I would agree with the IRS agent on the tax issue and being able to count the loss.  By issuing the 1099, the seller's loss is limited to his or her equity, and not the entire difference between the basis and the short sale price. 

If a short seller has a basis of $100,000.00, and sells for $50,000.00, it would be a $50,000.00 loss.  However, if the short seller had borrowed $90,000.00 on the property, his 1099 would be for $40,000.00, such that he could only claim a loss of $10,000.00, which was his equity from the start.

The harm comes for those who cashed out the original equity and then more through refinancing or second loans.  The 1099 on the debt forgiveness allows the IRS to treat the "cash" pulled out of the property as income.  The entire debt forgiven, however, is not equity, as the short seller would have still have his loss from the basis - hence only the "cash out" is income, as it would be if the short seller had sold the property for the refinance amount instead of refinancing it.

With deeds in lieu, the 1099 will be based on the debt less the FMV of the property for the forgiven debt.  The accountant can then subtract this FMV from the basis to determine the loss.  This will limit the loss, as well, to only the lost equity; or in the case of a cash-out refinance, limit the actual gain to the amount of the refinance over the original basis.

Darrin
9:13pm • #46
MAY
12
2008
19 Featured Posts

Richard,

I got a call on Monday, with a pending foreclosure on Friday... too late?

Also, can you chime in on the Deficiency Judgment debate over at: http://tinyurl.com/467ovx

2:18pm • #47
JUN
10
2008
432,223 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog

As usual, an excellent post. There are plenty of blogs on short sale. I think with 99% od those the difference is expertise vs what we feel it is.

WHether you warn us or not, your expertise is and will be used by us. It is still the best to go to your attorney and ask the right questions, rather then go and say "Tell me all you know about the subject". It is not going to work.

When someone comes in my office and asks me to tell them what I know about the property (my office is in the condo-hotel), I usually ask them if they have two weeks, so I can start.

Congrats on the feature.

9:29am • #48
115,356 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Wow, this is such great info.  I am so glad I stumbled accross your blog.  I love to read the law instead of everyone's guessing!  Thank you!  I am now a subscriber!

11:21pm • #49
JUN
11
2008
432,223 Points 27 Featured Posts Outside Blog

RIchard,

I carefully reread all the questions and your answers and it donned upon me that this is the only known source to me, where you can ask the attorney question after question and 3 things happen:

1. He knows his stuff, real expert;

2. He answers all questions, and makes them easy to understand;

3 It costs us nothing to tap into that resource.

I nearly started feeling bad about it, but then remembered that I am sending you another deal tomorrow, so that helped.

Thank you for terrific help.

 

1:23am • #50

Great information, It is definately going to come in handy. I appreciate all of this

10:57pm • #51
JUN
12
2008
164,632 Points

I have done two short sales and am negotiating another now.  After this one I am done.  I refuse to show or list another.  It isn't worth the trouble and aggravation.  I will refer them to another agent.

6:15am • #52

I just received my first request from a client to put their house on the market as a short sale.  So, I immediately came to Active Rain for help.  Thanks!

Renee Johnson
11:15am • #53
1 Featured Post

Excellent summary of the process Richard. Many realtors and borrowers don't really understand the mechanics of a "short sale" because the term has been bandied about without any real understanding of what it means.

12:28pm • #54
128,159 Points 4 Featured Posts

This is an excellent explanation.  I'd like to add that the short sale is simply one of a handful of loss mitigation programs/strategies available to homeowners.  In my humble opinion the short sale should be implemented only after all other options are exhausted.  Unfortunately, the short sale is the most public of these options so it gets the most press.   As you mention, it all starts with putting together a good clean package for the banks to review.  Having someone on the team that knows how to package and present the options to the bank should be an important team member for every realtor.

 

 

1:14pm • #55
JUN
18
2008
208,672 Points 1 Featured Post

Richard - this is an exceptional entry - thank you for sharing it with everyone.  In our area (similar to yours) about 70 to 85% of closings invovle a lender (short sale, REO or auction).  Agents need information exactly like this.  We would love to have you in a CDPE Course.

6:27pm • #56
JUL
24
2008

Was wondering where a seasoned real estate agent that lacks experience in short sales can get A-Z information. I see alot of people offering training and i dont mind paying for GOOD training.

 

Thanks!

ROSIE HALVORSON
4:09pm • #57

Good Blog-I enjoyed the reading.

Short sales are nothing new, there is just more of them.  Seasoned Real Esate Agents are best qualified to do these type of transactions but need a program just like they use for any other disipline of real estate.  The Certified Distressed Property Expert program offers a package that is complete from A-Z for doing short sales and comes with a certification.  Frankly, I would not do a short sale without the going through program.  It has save me time, it has save me repeat visits with my client, it has saved me from looking for more leads.  It is a two day seminar and has a foundation to start and then covers the back with tools and aids and how to deal with the Banks and Mortgage Companies.  I have yet to run out of work or leads and commissions are always paid by the bank at full rates.  And until the market stabilizes in my area this seems to be a great service to my clients and my market.  And the fact that I am helping people with foreclosure avoidance really makes me pleased with this program.  I took this seminar about 3 months ago and me and several other agents have grown the program locally into a larger machine to accept leads from all types of sources to help with foreclsoure avoidance.  And now we are building an infrastructure to handle all the lead generators in sofar as providing feed back of our services to their leads. 

So for the experience agent, I would check out the Distressed Property Institute at www.cdpenow.com and even if you are new to the real estate business, you could see if you want specialize in short sales.  At least it is further education and an investment into yourself and your future and helpful to your own community.

Randy Sanger
5:48pm • #58

Richard - Thanks for the terrific entry!  You have a lot of great information to share.

Rosie - I agree with Randy.  The best source we have found for short sale education is the Distressed Property Institute, and the Certified Distressed Property Expert (CDPE) designation.

We had taken several of the free 1 or 2 hour classes that some title companies are promoting, and a few of the classes that so-called and self-professed "experts"are offering.  After having attended the CDPE course, we realized that not only were we "taught" much mis-information, also several of the things being taught are actually illegal!  The Distressed Property Institute has been endorsed by such reputable organizations as Keller Williams Realty and Star Power.  They are an honorable company with an extraordinary amount of integrity.

When you leave the CDPE course, you actually are an expert.  It's 2 full days jam-packed with valuable information.  You also walk away with the systems, flow charts, forms, insider tips, even a complete sample short sale package.  You also learn how to generate short sale business.  It really is the "complete package."  It is worth the price at 10 times the amount they charge...easily.

What we really like is that, as Randy said, it allows us to help people avoid a credit-destroying and emotionally-damaging foreclosure.  The relief that sellers feel, even just after signing the listing agreement, let alone after their closing is visible.  There has been no better feeling in our business, than helping people avoid a foreclosure.

Definitely go to www.cdpenow.com and sign up for the next course.  It has changed our business, and can do the same for yours!  If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact us.

The Nathanson Brothers - www.NathansonBrothers.com and www.ForeclosureAvoidanceHotline.com

9:49pm • #59
AUG
18
2008
NOV
07
2008
1 Featured Post

Just so you know, at Genworth Mortgage Insurance, we have a loss mitigation department and we are very involved in executing all types of workout soultions for borrowers in trouble - including short sales.  We have a policy that if we agree to the short sale and it is successfully completed, we will not pursue any deficiency from the seller.  If you need more information, please do not hesitate to ask.

1:29pm • #61

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Richard Zaretsky, Florida Real Estate Attorney

West Palm Beach, FL

More about me…

Richard P. Zaretsky P.A.

Address: 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd, Suite 900, West Palm Beach, Fl, 33401

Office Phone: (561) 689-6660 x 107

Email Me

Legal true life experiences, general observations and commentaries for Realtors, Lawyers and Mortgage Brokers - also see our Palm Beach County Short Sales group blog.


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