There is debate among real estate investors regarding the difference between "Investing" and "Speculating" in real estate. Generally, the tone and context in which the word "speculation" is used tends to be negative. i.e. "That's not investing in real estate, it's {sneer - with furrowed eyebrow and spittle flying from lips} SPECULATING in real estate". OK, I'm exaggerating a little bit.

The most common dividing line used in making the distinction between speculating vs. investing in real estate is whether or not a real estate investment property returns a positive cash flow. If the rental property does not provide cash flow sufficient to cover the monthly carrying costs of the investment property, and the investor is betting largely on future value appreciation to provide the eventual return on investment, many consider this to be speculating. And they consider speculating to be an inferior, less desirable and more risky form of real estate investment than "positive cash flow investing".

Wealth can indeed be built owning negative cash flow rental homes. We would all prefer positive cash flow properties, but focusing too much on monthly cash flow ignores other important factors. Let's take a closer look at this question of cash inflow/outflow and the labelling of positive or negative cash flow as ‘good' or ‘bad'.

Here are some questions for those averse to negative cash flow to ponder.

Is the money one sends monthly to a Roth or SIMPLE IRA, 401K, etc. "speculation"?
There is certainly no disposable monthly cash proceeds immediately returned from those investment vehicles, yet there is a monthly cash outlay. Is the monthly cash outlay "negative cash flow"? Are not people who invest in retirement accounts "speculating" that those accounts will someday be worth substantially more than the sum total of cash outlay needed to feed the investment over time?

Is it unwise for an investor to believe, after prudent consideration of all options and using reasonable assumptions, that her initial investment plus monthly cash outlay will grow more in a piece of Austin real estate than it will in a mutual fund?

Does the Loan Product used to obtain a rental property determine whether it's a good property to buy or not?
It seems that the people who are down on negative cash flow base their judgment about the soundness of a real estate investment solely on the monthly cash flow. That ignores a lot of other very important factors.

For example, let's say I can purchase a home with a 30 year loan that would provide a small positive monthly cash flow, but instead I decide to obtain a 15 year loan with a better interest rate. Let's say that the 15 year loan does not result in a positive cash flow. Have I gone from being a real estate investor to a real estate speculator? Has anything about the home or its potential for future appreciation changed with the loan product?

What if I make a 50% down payment on the 15 year loan, and now the rental property does provide positive cash flow? Has the deal now become an "investment" again, instead of "speculation"?

What if I pay all cash for a property and I pay 20% over market value, but since I paid cash, the property provides a positive monthly cash flow? Does the positive cash flow make it an acceptable investment, or would the future value of the property and return on initial cash invested also be important to consider?

What if I obtain a property for 20% below market value, but it produces a negative cash flow? Does the negative cash flow make me a speculator, and the property a more risky investment, or does the instant equity make it ok?

What if someone decides to start making additional equity payments each month on a rental home, such that they can aggressively pay off the note in 10 years instead of 30, and it causes negative cash flow? Is the investment now a poor investment because it doesn't provide positive cash flow?

Why don't we all just buy mobile homes?
If positive cash flow is the sole determining factor of what makes an investment property worthy of consideration, why not invest only in mobile homes? Mobile homes, in most parts of the country, can provide rental cash flow returns that are far superior to those available with suburban family homes. Or does the fact that mobile homes depreciate in value make them a poor investment choice? If so, is that to say appreciation really does matter more than cash flow?

These are just a few ways to look at the "cash in, cash out" questions that often come up when evaluating rental property as an investment choice, and to get you to start thinking with more of an open mind. I think it's missing the big picture to use a single factor - cash flow - to decide if a real estate investment decision makes sense or not. I see a lot of real estate investors chasing cash flow instead of looking at cash flow simply as one of many factors to consider.

For a detailed overview of one possible cash flow scenario with Austin rental property, see this blog article.

Steve Crossland, REALTOR, MPM
Crossland Real Estate
http://www.CrosslandTeam.com
(512) 301-5811

 

13 Comments on Real Estate Speculation vs. Investing - Does Cash Flow Matter?

FEB
27
2007
174,574 Points 44 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Steve, many people in Idaho look at the monthly cash flow as their only basis for judging income property.  The savy investor will look att  the market price vs. asking price.  If the seller of the property is asking below market value then a savy investor will forgo monthly cash flow because he knows he has immediate equity in the property.  There are other scenarios that take place but vary because of various factors.
5:43pm • #1
12 Featured Posts

Steve, great post detailing the long term considerations of investing in real estate. You are certainly challenging everyone to look deeper and consider more factors (long term especially).

I think there's an analog to investment portfolios on the Street. Basically, how much risk are you willing to carry? High risk ventures have long been associated with potentially higher profits, conversely...low risk portfolios provide moderate or low growth.

If you begin to look at real estate investment first from a risk management strategy you naturally find the category of deals that suits the buyer best. Risk adverse? Avoid negative cash flow. Have a wad of money? You can afford to take a chance with property that isn't producing what it's costing...for now.

Anyway, I'm sure I am not saying anything you aren't already very familiar with.

Good post!

Cheers, -B 

P.S. Way to hit those keywords. ;)

 

6:14pm • #2
I agree with George, I have dealt with several investors that would much rather have a lot of equity in a property and lose a little on the cashflow side, as most of them know this is usually only a temporary loss and they will either be able to sell the property and make considerable gains and roll it into another property or if they plan to hold eventually rents will catch up and it will begin to cashflow, either way over time they are making money.
6:34pm • #3
253,475 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Our high end properties don't make much in the cashflow department, but they've appreciated considerably in the last two years. Lower end, slow growth, couple hundred over the payment per month. I like the diversity and they're all making money.
6:41pm • #4
244,607 Points 5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Negative cash flow must only exist because of tax benefits. Only an idiot buys property with real negative cash flow. If cash flow is negative, the investor should have left the money in the bank. Ah, I get it, they make it up with volume losses.
6:58pm • #5
5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat in real estate. You can make money in investments in several ways.

  1. Cash Flow
  2. Appreciation
  3. Depreciation
7:49pm • #6
351,548 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Thanks for this blog.  I had a past client call tonight asking about these issues.  I think you have a lot of good points here and will share these thoughts with him.
8:29pm • #7
1 Featured Post

Steve,

We have seen wild swings in speculation over the last 2 years here in Cape May County NJ.  For a period of time speculators were buying and flipping everything in sight.  Then the light switch was turned off.  Creative financing had fueled the fire during the boom times, while logic is currently prevailing. 

 If it doesn't make sense from a cash flow perspective, there will be no investors for a while, although we are just beginning to see some action now......  

 

11:12pm • #8
FEB
28
2007

We deal with a lot of California investors who've decided Austin is the best place to invest. 

Most of our investment property Buyers in Austin are looking at a $300-$600/mo. negative cash flow after property management/leasing fees, maintenance, vacancy loss, advertising, etc. are factored in. Most just look at the gross rent vs. piti number though, and want to be with a few hundred of break-even. On the other hand, the homes they buy have been steadily appreciating at $1200 to $2000+ per month since purchase.

The typical home we've been selling is a home that sells for $180K to $250K, less than 10 years old, that rents for $1200 to $1800/mo. We don't sell many new homes, for a host of reasons. Appreciation in the areas of Austin we sell was 13% in 2006, depending on the specific neighborhood and type of home.

Investors who chase better cash flow end up in areas we won't sell in. Cheap starter home communities in outskirt locations. For a modest improvement in cash flow, those buyers give away almost all appreciation. In fact, many of those homes are worth less today than what the buyer paid 2 years ago and the neighborhoods look dreadful due to the overselling to investors and first-time buyers.

I wish we were back in the late 1990's when I could purchase a nice South Austin brick home for $85K and it rented for $950. That same home now costs $150K and rents for $1100. Times have changed.

Steve
http://www.CrosslandTeam.com

 

7:51am • #9
MAR
01
2007

Steve,

As an investor I loved your blog.  I don't mind a little negative cash flow in the beginning if it is a desireable property.  Wait a year or 2 for rents to catch up.  Also my Cash-on-Cash return is very important to me.  On the percentages cash flow is the weakest reason to invest in a property for me.  If you want cash flow buy the mobile homes.  Why are we not all doing that?  Especially in Tornado alley...lol   

I am a buy and hold investor looking to build a real estate company for myself and long-term analysis is different than a year to year.  Short term is more of a speculation.  Cash flow vs. profit too is a line in the sand for investors and speculators.  People are elitist when they play that game of which is more  legitimate and desireable investment.  Call me a speculator, call me an investor, just call me with your deals.

Danny...don't forget to calculate your mortgage paydown into your returns...each month you own it you owe the bank that much less and as long as your house stays the same value as what you paid you're making money

9:18pm • #10
MAR
12
2007
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johnnywatt
10:29am • #11
AUG
24
2007
Sell negative cash flow properties to investors is a good thing for real estate agents, properpy prices are of course higher, based on comps and not on chash flow return, and of course they get a higher commission.

For an investor, this strategy work only in a hot seller market, in a market with high appreciation like we had in some areas in the last few years. When you think like this, you get burnt pretty easily when there is a market correction. When as an investor you count on equity only, you continue to buy even when the market is really overpriced thinking it will continue to rise. It works but only if it continue to rise indefinetly. When a market correction happens, this kind of investors are the first ones out of business unless they sold before it was to late.

Some speculators made a lot of money that way but the smartest investors left most of the very overpriced markets long time ago and did not get caught in all this mortgage mess that we see right now.



Fred
12:10pm • #12
DEC
20
2007
111,933 Points Outside Blog

Steve,

Great post.  Thought provoking.  Should help investors decide which way they want to lean.

4:41pm • #13

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Steve Crossland - Austin TX Real Estate

Austin, TX

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Crossland Real Estate

Address: 9600 Escarpment Blvd. , Ste 745-232, Austin, TX, 78749

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