Free speech is America, so is the right to criticize. 

Free speech is one of the rights that sets us apart from so many other countries.  We have always been a melting pot of ideas and opinions.  If we lose that, we're on a downward spiral.

There are a lot of things said that I disagree with.  I can name dozens of politicians that for all their bloviated oration have never uttered a single word I agree with... but I will defend even the most vile jackass the right to speak his piece.

Joe, Seems you are raising an issue that people answer with as much instinct as they do intellect. The ideology in America has changed and I would add that in my mind , not for the better. Having opinion and expressing yourself is fine. There does seem to be a whole other culture that says that in one breath and then ostracizes the other in personal attacks for their opinion. It's hateful stuff not just opinion. Believing strongly though that America will endure even this, we must also learn to respect dialog and understand there will always be a difference of opinion but the personal attacks on holding a different opinion must stop.

Jon,

I'm in total agreement with you. Even though I'm a political junkie, I get very tired of all of the rancor and  complete lack of civil discourse displayed by both sides.  It is done for entertainment value and rating nd it does absolutely nothing to bring us together as a nation.

I absolutely agree that personal attacks have no place in a discussion of ideas or opinions.  Give me LOGIC, not name-calling.  The world has many shades of gray.  They can't be perceived by dogs or by some people who post about politics and resort to blanket statements and name-calling.

Jon, there wasn't much dissent on that post because Cheri' was among friends.  And that's fine.  I, for one, am not going to crash a party where people are making statements about beliefs opposite my own.  I'm not going to convince them of anything and they're damn sure not going to convince me.

I do, however, keep a list of people I'll NEVER refer business to. :)

Adam - That's what I thought. Thanks.

Christine - I can't agree with you more.

Jesse - In my years back in Russia I, as people around me, learned the art of context. As we joked, we were thinking one thing, saying another and doing something different.

I am living here a rather simple life, where there is no such context, and I enjoy taking everything for pretty much the face value (with some variations for Political correctness, etc). However, I understand that some of the things I believe in could be just assumptions, and that's why I felt a bit disturb when I ran into the idea of a purge. The funny thing is that I would most probably would be on the same page with Cheri' in regard to the substance, the disturbing thing was the idea of telling people to get out if they do not like something.

With the best intentions in the world, this will be one sided truth, and I have seen it already, how for the benefit of the majority terrible things can happen.

You are reinforcing for me what I believe in, and what I try to adhere to.

William - I guess if suddenly there is no dissenting voice around, we need to try to understand what happened, as this will be bad for the nation. We are different, and the opinions are going to be different.

Susan - Civility is a wonderful thing, but civility is the "quality" of debating. Suggesting that those who think differently, leave, is an ideological thing. It is when one's right becomes everyone's right.

Karen -  I have nothing against Cheri'. I think I would agree with her on her assessments, but I was disturbed by that one phrase. I commented. I know we all sometimes come with "light" statements.

John I love debate and  the fact that we are allowed is what makes this country great . People just get angry with each other because of strong feelings. I do draw the line though at disrespecting our military(Who are all volunteers) in that case I get very angry.

Jon,

It's so inspiring to hear/read what you have to say. Obviously you understand what we're about, sadly so many have forgotten.

Huffington is a fool, but not nearly as stupid as those who would salience her! She's only dangerous in 30 second sound bites, let her talk.

Who among us should decided who gets to speak? Like "Marks" the idea looks good on paper it isn't until you try to pick an omnipotent leader that you see all the fallacies. I was raised to believe man should accept God not apoint or elect them.

Bill

Jon - you are absolutely right!  I don't read Ariana Huffington's page though I am familiar with her and it's ok not to like her.  But I too read the comment from the other blog you're referring to in which someone wanted her sent back to Greece.  Very un-American.  We all have different opinions and barring truly offensive speech, we must respect the freedom of speech. 

On a side note, we only have 10 days to get rid of Simon before he becomes American so if everyone chips in we can buy a 1 way ticket on British Airways for him.  >:-)

When I served in the military, I took an oath to defend the Constitution. That Means the Bill of Rights also. The old phrase " I may not like what you are saying, but I will defend your right to say it" is very important in this country.

 On lighter note, I never complain when super lefties move out though.

Hugh - There is nothing wrong to get very angry. The problem is when we try to shut unwanted voices down.

Let me tell you that when I came to this country, and started bumping into the news of people who are against the President, I felt very uncomfortable for two reasons: because against the President in Russia means against Russia, and also because against the President means that you are not going to last long, if you are going to last at all. And believe me, this is way worse in North Korea, thousand times worse. It is way worse in Cuba...

To tell you the truth when I am posting anything political, my wife is very concerned. She knows where she is, but she does not have the trust in any system, and she knows that anything you write may hunt you.

We need to make sure that this is not ever going to happen here. Even when we are angry, even when we are right ...

Bill -  You just voiced what I thought, just did it better. That's eactly the point. If suddenly we hear everything in accord, and not dissenting voices around, we should get alert, as this is dangerous. Not the 30 second heynous soundbites, that are dangerous, but the silencing of anybody as a matter of policy and ideology.

John, nicely said.

Everyone has the right to say what the will (excluding the "fire" in a crowded theater type comments).

As Voltaire said

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!"

Tchaka - I am always fascinated how I write something fighting with every word, and then you, guys, comment on it making my point to sound very strong, well worded (if I can call it this way).

You say that as something that is obvious to a 5th grader. We do not even imagine that for the overwhelming majority of the people in the world this is a foreign notion. All dictatorships, all oppressive regimes, all not really democratic countries deprive the right to voice things that are against the ruling group, ideology, party or government.

Those do not send you to Greece, but to Jail, but the same idea is behind. I appreciate your support.

BTW, is Simon already in danger? I am sure some liberals may want him go back to England, they will contribute more for the ticket (LOL)

Kevin - I agree with you. Of course, I understand that though you wouldn't cry if she leaves, you would not be the one to throw her out.

Mike - Thanks for the quote. How could I forget that it belongs to a French philosopher. But this does not change the fact that this is the key notion of American democracy. In that sense I did not make a mistake.

Of course, we need to distinguish free speech from stupid speech (phone bomb threats, "fire" as in your example, etc.)

Jon, have you checked back on Cheri's post?  These are the people you're associating yourself with in the silent majority group. 

Does that feel comfortable to you?

Is there still just one line in that post you disagree with?

Freedom of Speech is one of the cornerstones of our society. However, in the last fifteen years, I have noticed more and more intolerance for intelligent debate and the discussion of ideas from both the liberal and the conservative perspective. This polarization is deeply damaging to our country.

I've lived in "liberal areas" (SF) where you are attacked for voicing a "middle of the road" opinion i.e., didn't drink the SF kool-aid. And, I've lived in primarily conservative areas where I was attacked for my "middle of the road" moderation stance. One of the refreshing things about moving to Fresno (which has a pretty strong conservative base) from San Francisco, is that dialogue is tolerated and not shut down.

We must have an atmosphere of tolerance for debate and discussion as long as it doesn't incite violence and destruction. My middle of the road perspective, "everyone has a right to their opinion."

You have Arianna Huffington on one side and across from her is Ann Coulter. I don't like either one, but I believe to the depths of my soul that they have an inherent right to speak their minds. To do away with dissenting opinions, is the heart of Fascism. If the predations of radical Islam cost us our freedoms,they have already won a great victory.

Karen - I am not good with the associations, and groups. I guess I understadn what you mean, but the consolation is that I am not vying for any public office, and may escape the scrutiny.

In that sense silent majority is like life, you have different people around you, sometimes nice, sometimes not.

If what I write is liked - fine, if not... also fine.

Do you think that I need to angrily leave the group if I do not agree with someone's opinion?

Lisa - would be nice if we could maintain this "middle of the road" stance. Did we get to the point that only the events like September 11 unite us? That's sad.

Israel- It is tough to tolerate what some people say. It is tempting to shut someone, or to tell them to go away...

But we can't afford it for our own sake

Jon, it seems to me you are an intelligent, logical guy with well-thought-out answers that make a lot of sense.  You also have life experiences that make your viewpoint even more valuable.

I was just surprised to see your post in that group.  I wish you well whatever you decide to do. 

I made my first trip to Europe last summer (daughter in Peace Corps Romania).  Besides Romania, we visited Hungary and Austria.  I have a Masters degree, so I'm not stupid, but I had NO CLUE what people in those countries have been through.  Hero's Square in Bucharest where dissenters were gunned down.  Terror Museum in Budapest where people were detained for no reason, tortured, killed, sent to work camps.  These stories were not part of my education.  Maybe we learned the dates of pertinent events but nothing about what life was really like for the people. 

I can understand why zealots make you nervous.

Jon,

Good post, I always like to hear what you have to say and I have told you that before.

Karen,

I am part of THAT group!  I have no problem with Jon and I don't think he has one with me.  Everyone has opinions and beliefs that differ from others.  I have a feeling if I looked at some of the people you associate with through certain groups you belong to, I could say the same thing that you said above...

These are the people you're associating yourself with in the silent majority group. 

Does that feel comfortable to you?

I have not been involved at all with that discussion but that does not mean I don't agree or disagree with parts of it, I just haven't had time to go through all of it and post.  I don't think it is fair that you try to put people into groups when you do not even know half of the group.

John, the fact that Cheri's post was FEATURED as the shining example of what the group aspires to puts it in a different category from, "Well, jeez, it's a big group.  It's not fair to draw conclusions when you don't know half the people in it."  

Do yourself a favor and read the post and all of her responses.  You might view this comment of mine differently. 

Karen - I went back to that post and read carefully all 85 comments. Even wanted to leave another comment, but it is over, Cheri' got tired fighting and told us "no more".

It s a sad story when a person refuses to acknowledge a mistake, a slip, a lightheaded statement, and it all escalated into a grumpy debate over floating issue, which suddenly, according to Cheri', became a debate about the religion, which is a surprise to me.

As for the group, for me this is a place where I post (and a few others). I do find some of the stuff here offensive, so I do not comment, or jump and object. As you certainly understand, this is anonymous, as we are all behind computers, so I do not feel like I am part of any group, meaning that I have to adhere to certain group policy, and that we all have certain group mentality.

I am sure you saw something in Eastern Europe, that was shocking. I already understand that Americans in general do not know that much about what was happening there, and what is still happening in North Korea, Cuba and other places.

As a nation, Americans tend to assume that the world is either like us, or wants (and ready) to be like us provided they have a chance. I think a lot of problems in American foreign policy stems from these assumptions.

John - thanks for stopping by.

Jon I always respect your opinion even when I don't agree .You made some  valid points in Cheri's blog and it probably would have stayed civil except the attack Libs went straight for her morals and beliefs. I do understand where you were coming from but i still agree with Cheri. I know its hard for most people to understand but i believe our life here is but a short time and  Eternity is forever.

Hugh - with all due respect, Hue, it was not about religion. And her post was not about the religion. She draw religion as a defence.

And again, I think this was a lighthearted statement, which she chose to defend. This could not work. What then is the difference with Rev. Wright, where he blames America for everything that she does or does not?

Religion is not a defence of conveninece, as Christ would not silence people, and would not alienate them...

I did not take some of her comments personally. I am an atheist, always was like everyone else in the Soviet Union. Right now a lot of Russians claim they became religious, but it would be better to say that they are trying to fill the void and replace the ideology with religion. I just stay the way I was.

So, all references to decency and morality as derivative from religion did not play well with me. I do not know anything about religion, but I respect the beliefs of others, or, better say, the mere fact that they believe. Those who are not the believers  deserve the same. Whether they get to hell or not is up to higher authorities.

I really do think that Cheri's pastor would have had a lot of issues with her comment.

No, Jon, it was not originally about religion.  You were the first reply that gently questioned Cheri's viewpoint and she shot you down with both barrels.  Then she made it about religion and proceeded to try to convince us (herself?) she's holier than any of us and there's only one way to see things.

Wrong for so many reasons that I won't rehash here, but that's what she does. 

Her sniping at your English was unforgivable.  Hey, hers isn't perfect.

You're right, Christ wouldn't silence people.  Someone, at the end of the comments, stated that Cheri is seeing things through God's eyes and implied that the problem is that the rest of us don't get it.  Oh, please.  Ridiculous.  Whatever happened to love thy neighbor?  For that matter, why doesn't she turn the other cheek?  Let alone judge not lest ye be judged.

She can believe whatever she wants, I have a problem when she makes vicious attacks on anybody who's not in lockstep with her.  Because THEY can also believe whatever THEY want.  That's how it works.

I don't think she did any good for the cause of conservatism, to put it mildly.

The description of the Silent Majority group says liberals are welcomed with open arms.  Not seein' it, guys.

Karen W:

You wrote, ".....the fact that Cheri's post was FEATURED as the shining example of what the group aspires to puts it in a different category from, "Well, jeez, it's a big group.  It's not fair to draw conclusions when you don't know half the people in it."  

I am the one who featured Cheri's post. 

I thought you were trying to make arguments for free speech. With this comment, it seems you are trying to diminish what Cheri is trying to say in her post or perhaps silence her, then you peck at Jon for being a Silent Majority member.  I personally invited Jon to Silent Majority and consider him a tremendous asset to our group. How dare you try to get him to drop out of Silent Majority Group just because you disagree with one of our member's posts.

You seem to have become a proponent of what you are protesting so vehemently against, which is censorship. 

Karen:

You said, "The description of the Silent Majority group says liberals are welcomed with open arms.  Not seein' it, guys."

 FYI: There are liberals that are members of Silent Majority.  You'd be very surprised.  With a group that is one of the most active groups on ActiveRain it's hard for anyone to stay away.  Like one liberal said, "It's like watching a train wreck.  You don't want to look but you do."

Bill B.,

Thank you for sticking up for Jon!

If people would only read his profile and his bolgs they'd know this is an American! I'm as conservative as anyone should get and I'm proud to know of him. I tried to tell him, but he didn't answer his phone. Something for another day.

As for some strange wording it's fun, and who am I to talk? At least he spells it right, which is more than I can say.

These attackers claiming to be conservative and Christian are an embarrassment. No one in there right mind has ever vote Democrat, but reading these self apointed judges lets you understand how sane people could vote against them.

Let me stand with the guy, with the strange words and noble ideas every time!

Let me stand with Jon as well.  I like what I've seen from him.  I've defended him above.   

You know what, Bill B?  You're entitled to your opinion.  As is Cheri, Jon and everybody else in this wonderful country.  As am I.  I'm not trying to silence anyone.  I'm just not agreeing.  Big difference.  Also not spewing venom at anyone who disagrees with me.

I'm also not saying "How dare you..." anything.  Now, THAT would be squelching freedom of speech, right?

P.S. I knew you featured Cheri.

William Archambault, YOU understand!

Gonna go watch American Idol.  Peace.

Karen - Thank you for your so well thought comment. Your assessment of Cheri's claims for sainthood are absolutely correct IMO.

As for me "gently" questioning, I was caught napping. I was reading the post, then I was reading the comments, and suddenly I lost confidence. Just for a moment, but I asked myself whether what I read, heard and started believing in was just a smokescreen...

For that short moment I felt very uncomfortable. Usually sensitive Americans seemed OK with this statement about sending unclean to other pastures. I was in disbelief, I thought this was a joke gone a bit far, and I thought she would acknowledge it. She didn't. But I needed the answer for myself.

So, I posted the same question in this blog. Then there were numerous comments on Cheri' blog and then it simply escalated.

As for English, I think Cheri' jumped not on me, but on Simon, which is really funny, as Simon is from England.

With me that would be simply stating the fact, and I wouldn't mind it, absolutely not. But Simon is a different story, so he got offended and made a shot to linguistic knighthood himself claiming that he has perfect English. Even my 16-year old grandson says he is "near perfect". But this happened when it was no longer a debate, but an artillery duel at full force, when everything is loud, and the shades disappear...

I am grateful to everyone who commented. I got the answers that I needed.

Bill - I did not know I was attacked, especially by Karen, but I appreciate your kind words very much. I am awfully sorry for the phone call not being returned, I spend the whole day with a client from El Salvador, and this is a client who came to us of the Internet, and, what is even more impressive, after reading my blog on AR. And this is flattering.

So, I owe you a phone call. Even though with my English one of us (not necessarily at the same time) may have difficulty understanding each other.

I still write better than I speak

Bill B - I wrote a comment, clicked submit, and after a while it returned an error page, and the comment was gone. Happens more often lately.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I have accepted the invitation. I saw some interesting people here, and I am watching some of them.

Do I agree with everything here? No. Do I like everything that is said here? No. By the same token I am sure not everybody liked what I wrote, and I am sure some people were angry with my comments. Well, this is life.

On a personal note I think it is easier to listen to people when they speak, not when they scream. But this is an art and I am for one is not the master of it.

As for featured post (Cheri's), I did not pay attention to it. I am invited to a party, and I am not the one who sets the rules. I do not know the criteria for feauture, not do I care much about it.

Jon:

Thanks for your kind words.  I very much like your contributions to Silent Majority.  Again, though we don't always see eye to eye (it would be scary if we did), I like reading your posts which are usually very heart felt.  It is quite fascinating to see your perspective as an immigrant to America.  Myself, being born here, there are too many things I take for granted in this great country.