I'm sure some of our members have noticed this.  Occasionally a new member to the network will decide to essentially copy and paste the entire contents of an offsite blog or website into many posts on ActiveRain.  While it's their blog and we want to let them do what they want with it, two issues arise.  We don't want to reward them for doing this via points, and we need to provide an easy way for readers to sort through the new posts to find the ones they most want to read.  So to help solve this issue, the following changes are proposed:

1.  Members will only recieve points for 2 new posts within a 24 hour period.

2.  Members will be limited to 5 posts total in a 24 hour period.

3. We're going to add a simple ranking system, allowing people to rank how interesting they think a post is.  We'll then provide a way to sort blogs by most interesting posts and most interesting posts in the last 24 hours (probably the default sort).

Let us know what you think, or if you have alternative ideas.

-Matt Heaton (ActiveRain CEO)

 

58 Comments on The blog dumping epidemic

JUL
09
2006
147,107 Points 23 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I like it (not that it really matters what I like). It's actually BETTER for people (from an SEO and readibility perspective) to spread out their posts anyway.

There's some great content out here already. It's be easier to sift through it all if the stuffs at least a little spread out.

Rating systems are fine, as long as we're all adults about it and someone doesn't devide to intentionally rates someone's post low due to personal bias.... 

9:45pm • #1
147,107 Points 23 Featured Posts Outside Blog

"decide to intentionally rate" is what I meant to say!

Ability to edit comments would be cool. I have no idea if it's technically possible...

Learning to type may be a viable option.

9:48pm • #2
107,924 Points Outside Blog

I agree that it's a bad thing to copy/paste content from another website or blog into the Active Rain system. Not only for the integrity of AR, but it also jeopardizes the SEO of the site of the original post.

Limiting posts by timeframes is a good idea, although I think 2 is too few. Often there are multiple valid issues going on in a region, and people should be allowed to post those.

I totally DISAGREE with the concept of a ranking system for blog posts, as that would just encourage more spam as groups of members will just go in and cheer for their associates' posts. That would essentially magnify the current problem rather than repairing it. This type of "voting" system would derail the camaraderie that is inherent in this type of "social" networking system.

An alternative would be to initiate a penalty system, where people who post blog items that are clearly cut/paste from other sites or spammy content meant just to gain points (and therefore cannot stand on its own as valid content) would receive a warning to correct or delete the post, and then a penalty if they fail to make the correction (i.e. a reduction or removal of the points they received for the post in the first place).

I've noticed that some of my associates blogs have been doing some of these items you mention, and they already have been contacted off-list that they are not helping themselves in the long run by doing this.

9:52pm • #3
6 Featured Posts
Why not publicize the traffic stats to which points acutally equate?  How about showing how much value actually comes from active rain? Is an offsite blog a better use of time, or a blog within the active rain world.  And if active rain wants better content than our own sites, I think some agents would be hard pressed.  
10:12pm • #4
6 Featured Posts
How about the ability to fix my typos in my previous post? Is that a useful feature?
10:13pm • #5
6 Featured Posts
I don't think that people who blog too often should be penalized, only when posts are pasted from other blogs.  You have to realize that some days people have a ton to say.  Other days folks may be afk or be busy.  I understand that the policy is designed to encourage original content, therefore, I think the penalties should be on those posts that are unoriginal.
10:21pm • #6
107,924 Points Outside Blog

I think it's premature to be measuring productivity of the AR blogs, since the system is too new. However, since they are all subdomains, I would venture to guess that in the long run they won't do as well as other blog platforms that don't require the subdomain.

Still, since the blog is one of the primary ways to gain points within the AR system, there should be some limitations as to what constitutes "content" and what is clearly just garbage posts meant to fill in the points gap. If someone wants to post a series of valid posts and get full points for them, I really have no challenge with that.

11:00pm • #7
JUL
10
2006
While not a big proponent of cut and paste from other sites and posting on our own blogs, I do feel that if we write something original for another blog we may have and also post to the AR blog it shouldn't be penalized as it is original and created by us, just my 2 cents.
Stan Mackey
12:59am • #8
Matt, Are there instructs as to how to add photo's to both our blog and also to comments?
1:07am • #9
12 Featured Posts

I'm not crazy about the rating system either, for some reason I just think it's an invitation for abuse.  I agree with some of the other posters about adding blog content from an off-site blog.  For the most part off-site blog posts are more substantive and do add to ActiveRain's blog.  To me that's different from cut and pasting bits & pieces of someone's website or marketing material.

I don't necessarily think you need to restrict the number of posts.  The problem is people gaming the system for those 200 pts per post.  By reducing/limiting the points, the cut and paste posts may decline as there's no incentive.  Though, it may still occur, but over a longer period of time.  In any case, I do like option #1.

 

2:26am • #10
12 Featured Posts

Stan...I just noticed they added an Insert image button to the  post and comments text boxes.  The image does need to be hosted though.

Alternatively, for now at least, you can drag and drop into the text box.

<!--StartFragment --> 

2:33am • #11
12 Featured Posts

Oops...The above was a drag and drop, but it was a linked image so it links to the page I got it from.  Probably don't want to do that since it'll use the site owners bandwidth. But, you could do a view image and drag and drop that. <!--StartFragment -->

2:40am • #12
269,092 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I wondered how long it would take for a limit to be instituted. I would also suggest the same rule apply to comments.  I've deleted some of the most obvious I'm commenting for points nonsense. 
3:49am • #13

Matt,

You've had me thinking all morning. It's an interesting problem, limit the obvious garbage without limiting the tool. It is mentioned on the main AR page that we can use AR to promote our other sites. So, based on my mom's oft repeated theme "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem", here's an idea. I'll warn you now, it's not the simplest.

  • Set up a panel of 3 or 5 or 7 AR members to review content submitted by users.
  • Add a check box on the blog submission form that requests AR review.
  • Establish a "Top Quality Blog Content" area.
  • Blog entries that have been reviewed and given high marks by the panel are moved to the Top Quality area.
  • Asign fairly low points for un-reviewed blogs.

I could go into more detail, but I'm sure you get the idea.

Reviewing could be voluntary (maybe a checkbox on sign up,"I want to be a reviewer") and short term (30 days?) and revolving. If the system chooses reviewers in a random fashion from a pool of potential reviewers, abuse could be kept to a minimum.

The Active Rain Network is an impressive addition to the web. It is the cleanest (uncluttered) resource I have found so far. I, for one would like to keep it that way. And if that requires some voluntary labor on my part as a member, well then I guess that would be "part of the solution".

Mark Flanders

PS - Is ActiveRain's Matt Heaton the same person as BlueHost's Matt Heaton? Both services have a similar feel.

Mark Flanders
8:04am • #14
160,890 Points 43 Featured Posts

Opps,

I wasn't logged in when I commented so this addition is just to pick up the 25 points!

Mark

8:11am • #15
107,924 Points Outside Blog

I don't think that having blog posts rated, whether by a voting system or by a panel, is a good idea at all. Blogs are meant to be somewhat freeform, so you'll have some who post better written articles than others.

All we're really looking for here is a solution to the cut/paste and the nonsense posts that are just put on the system for the points value.

I agree with another comment that some of the cut/paste really is valuable content with informative articles that are very well written. The poster is really only hurting themselves by adding this to the AR system, since the redundancy on AR may hurt thir main site. Perhaps a little more education is warranted in a more visible location on the AR system for those who are just starting to blog? I don't think you can institute any penalty system without first educating as to what it is you're trying to prevent.

You could institute something like they have on Craig's List, where there's a way to submit a "check mark" of sorts if you think a post is spammy or not appropriate. A certain number of submitted check marks on that system are required before automatic removal of the post. You could choose to have it scheduled for review instead of automatic deletion, but at least this would make tha AR system somewhat self-monitored by the users. What I don't like about the Craig's list system is that there's not an "are you sure?" popup to prevent accidental reporting - sometimes it's easy to click on the wrong icon and then somebody gets dinked when they shouldn't have.

9:07am • #16
174,927 Points

I think members should be able to add as many entries to their own Blog, the problem arises when everything winds up in the collective Blog for the public.

A new member may want to Dump a lot of new articles in their own Blog for the visitors to their page, even if it is a detriment to another Blog they may maintain, just to have content on their page.

I know we have the option of choosing Public, Members, Associates or Draft, maybe the option needs to be rethought/re-categorized to allow a member to keep the entry on their private Blog, but for general public consumption and add an option to post to the General Blog.

I really enjoy Blog posts from member which give information about their area, just wish members would identify the City/State they are talking about.

9:27am • #17
1,088,513 Points 57 Featured Posts

Thanks for all the feedback.  We'll try to take it all in and have something up in the next day or two.  Sounds like we'll definetly do option #1, limiting points for posts. 

I think Paul is right we need to rethink the catagorization of posts a little bit.  We had been thinking of adding the ability to specify a target audience for the blog posts.  Long term what we plan to do is archive blog posts into catagories and make these catagories easily searchable by consumers.  So if a consumer wanted to learn more information about selecting a good agent, they'll have a resource. 

Mark, I'm not the same Matt Heaton as Blue Host's Matt Heaton, actually wrote a blog post on it :)  http://activerain.com/blogs/matt/view/258?Googling%20your%20name%20and%20strange%20connections  I do read his blog though as we have some fairly similar ideas about how to run a business from a customer comes first standpoint.

11:04am • #18
2 Featured Posts

On sorting blogs "by most interesting posts and most interesting posts in the last 24 hours"...

Whether a post is interesting or not is very subjective. I think a more fair assessment factor would be something like popularity. This would help to maintain the overall social networking concept of ActiveRain.

Popularity could be objectively measured in ways such as:

  • Number of comments
  • Number of unique visitors
  • Number of inbound links

There are a number of "most popular" plugins for just about all of the major blogging systems. Those may be a good starting point.

 

2:06pm • #19
1,088,513 Points 57 Featured Posts

Jason, I like those ideas.  We already allow blog posts to be sorted by number of comments, but we can fairly easily track unique visitors and inbound links.  We could even combine them into an overall "popularity" rating. 

I think we are going to try a very simply human based rating system.  Basically a checkbox that allows people to say a post is interesting (I know it's subjective), we can enforce that the same person can't check it multiple times.  It'll be fairly unintrusive and will simply be another way that a member can order blog posts.  If it doesn't create the desired effect we'll pull it out.

2:21pm • #20
107,924 Points Outside Blog

I think a potential client is going to be most interested in information about their area. Is it possible to add a feature to sort/filter the blog posts by area? This could be done by using the members city/state or by having a drop-down for the blog poster to select from. If we're looking to increase usability in a catch-all blog, it's going to be very difficult otherwise.

I think that most people would be more inclined to look at the individual agent posts for their area than the general who-knows-where posts in the general blog.

The blog dumping issue is really more of a points issue, as well as an education issue. Many people posting on these blogs have either never had a blog before, or they have had an assistant or VA doing it, so they don't have a clue of what's appropriate and what's not.

First step it seems is to educate educate educate... penalties and point reductions can come later. Inform the authors of the "offending posts" that they are inappropriate via private email and provide a resource where they can see how to correct it. If they refuse to correct the offending posts, then management should have the ability to block the post from the AR general blog, although they should still be visible on the members private blog. And once made private, I would think that a point reduction may be warranted depending on the situation.

Punishing the whole community for the few who lack education isn't appropriate either!

3:51pm • #21
2 Featured Posts
Linda, excellent suggestion on filtering by area. I second it!
5:26pm • #22
1,088,513 Points 57 Featured Posts
Actually the filtering by area has been on the todo list for a while.  We're going to integrate relevent blog posts into the state/county/city listings so you might see two columns.  One with the real estate professionals servicing that area and the other with relevent blog posts about that area.  Still details to work out on exactly how this will be implemented, but that's the plan.
5:49pm • #23
1,088,513 Points 57 Featured Posts
So many idea's so little time... 
6:11pm • #24
I can see the wisdom in filtering down th content of the to a local area selection. Only makes sense when you consider the fact that not all trends reported cross regional boundries through out the US. Love what your doning here, gald to be a part of it all.
8:56pm • #25
JUL
11
2006

Definately we should limit the amount of spam bloging going on to just beef up the point totals.

All you really need to do is remove those posts that are duplicate content.

Bob Crain
12:45am • #26
174,927 Points

More pizza and coffee for Ben.  One more thought, when a member creates their first Blog entry, open a Terms of Use & Guidelines to Effective ActiveRain Blogging, which they acknowledge before the forst post goes live. 

Jason had some good tips about blogging and tagging.  Some members may not be aware that their posts are going into a general Blog.

7:22am • #27
6 Featured Posts

I think Paul nailed it. And, I think the difference between the general blog and maybe an area-specific blog should correspond to a difference in points. General blog posts (sometimes the most watered down) should have weaker point weight.  But rich, area specific (or content specific) blog posts, with links to external resources should have the greatest weight..  Maybe the area specific blogs are restricted to being displayed on the member's profile page, whereas general market stuff, or the general blog in general is on the main community page.

10:00pm • #28
6 Featured Posts
By the way kudos for the performance, this web works very well from performance standpoint.
10:02pm • #29
JUL
12
2006
51 Featured Posts

Wow,  I'm away answering emails for a little bit and look what happens!

I appreciate to hear everybody's input and suggestions here on the blog. 

One thing I'd like to mention is that there is going to be many ways to view and read the blogs as well as other communications tools coming online.

Linda I know you are concerned about scoring, but that is only one way in which we will be able to look through the blogs.  Geographic, tagging, and topical methods are other ways of getting through the blogs.  These methods are coming down the pipe. 

In the meantime I'm very glad to hear everybody working together to create is shaping out to be a truly great resource.

3:38am • #30
JUL
14
2006
107,924 Points Outside Blog
I'm finding it close to impossible to figure out when I can post to my blog (with points) with the new 3-per-day rule. When exactly does that clock start/stop? 99% of the time I try to post it says that I'm beyond my limit, when it's actually a new day per the calendar. Either have a standard time for the clock to start/stop, or give us a countdown clock. This is a huge time-waster trying to guess when a post will be "counted" by the system. While I understand why the limit was imposed, the administration of this was not well thought out.
10:31am • #31
JUL
15
2006
107,924 Points Outside Blog
Seems there's now a comment dumping epidemic - one member is writing "keep up the good work" as a comment on multiple posts. This is annoying, to say the least, and not what comments were intended for.
10:38am • #32
348,296 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Points system on here is fine!

I wanted to make a new suggestion to everyone, The CEO and the community, if possible; lets change the looks of the first page and split the country into regions. 

For example: if the #1 guy is from so and so town and state and has 40,000 points then he gets to appear on the front page of the ActiveRain website and since they have such great amount of points then it is impossible to ever see anyone else in that first or second position.

Would it be possible to split the map into 3 regions? 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 regions?  Just a thought and congratulations to the top two people who I am sure have worked very hard to reach the points they have achieved so far.

Don't get me wrong, it is not a popularity contest and we are not here to rack up points or atleast I am not.  I am very happy to be here part of an online real estate community where a loan officer like myself can be involved.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Always,

Nima

1:58pm • #33
JUL
18
2006

I've seen a couple blog responses with no content.  This could have been user error or just an attempt by the user to accumulate points.  Does an empty response receive points as set up right now?  If so, can the blog system be modified to filter out empty posts or at least prohibit point allocation to empty posts? 

Thanks for the work on reducing blog-dumping, which seems to be going on as well, as indicated in earlier posts.  I know this entire site is a work in progress, but it appears some users are already taking advantage of the point system with cut-and-paste blogs from articles, etc.  I like the idea of a point system that gives different weights to new blog entries depending on how many responses are received, topic content, etc.  This would encourage more relevant and conversation provoking subject matter.

Looking forward to seeing how this develops.     

11:43am • #34
212,651 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Comment dumping, blog dumping.  All needs to be dealt with, and I appreciate all your comments and suggestions on this.  If you see anything like this I will do my best to respond to this.

 Of course we all want this to be the best network we can make it so keep up the suggestions.  Branden I think you have some good points there.  As we go on we may want to implement some of those changes.

1:43pm • #35
JUL
25
2006
185,864 Points 68 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I read this after I sent you my comments this morning.  I didn't even know ther was such a thing as BLOG DUMPING... obviously it is still happening because today is 7/25 and you posted this originally on 7/9.

Seems like there is an opportunity for improvement...

 

 

11:07am • #36
JUL
28
2006
354,347 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I am too new to comment on the point system...I am just trying to work with what I have been given and it seems to be working just fine.

IMO if you are to judge a blogs worthiness the number and quality of comments I think should be the way to go... you could give a set number of points for blogs and a BONUS to those blogs that generate high/good quality comments; how does that sound?

I think then people would be inspired to write blogs that help the community of us here and not just to score points and increase their visability. Personally, I find the posting of listings to be very offensive ~~~~ that is what websites and e-mails ...etc, etc...... are for.

Not here where we are supposed to be encouraging, inspiring and informing (teaching) each other on this wonderful career we have chosen.

8:16pm • #37

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