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You're Looking Out for Veterans?

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Mortgage and Lending with Mortgages in AZ, CA, CO, DE, FL, GA, IN, MD, MN, MT, NC, NJ, NV, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WI NMLS #138061 MMCD #1141

You're Looking Out for Veterans?

 

     In today's issue of "I love my business but sometimes hate my industry", I read today that there's a federal investigation into the "churning" of VA loans, which, if you've been in the mortgage industry for more than a few months, falls into the "duh" category.

 

     Churning, for those not familiar with the jargon, is strategically issuing someone a mortgage loan, then repeatedly offering refinance options to close several loans from the same borrower, generating fees on each and every transaction, in a relatively short period of time.  While, of course, there are Mortgage frustrationsome very good reasons for many borrowers to refinance, those involved with "churning" tend to issue acceptable, but lesser-than-the-best-option type mortgage loans, then offering a slightly better loan a few months later.

 

     The investigation is focused on churning specifically with regard to the VA loan program, which is, in my humble opinion, the best loan product on the planet.  Unfortunately, the VA loan is also one which is very easy to take advantage of if you're a lender that wants to prey on home buyers and owners who haven't taken courses on the mortgage market.  Here's an example of how predatory lending takes place on a VA loan (it's especially easy when in a market with appreciating home values).

 

"Mr/s borrower you're buying a new home, that's great!  Let's use your VA benefit to get you a great loan with no money down!"  

 

....6 months later

 

"Mr/s borrower, great news!!  We can offer you a no closing cost refinance loan with your VA benefit that will pay off some/all of your other debts, too --- the rate will be a little higher, but your monthly debts will go down so much that it'll offset the higher rate!"

 

...6 months later

 

"Mr/s borrower, more great news!!  We can no offer you a mortgage with a much lower rate that will save you a ton of interest over time.  There are closing costs, but the lower rate and the long term savings will more than offset those costs!"

 

     And just like that, a lender closes 3 loans in 1 year for 1 borrower.  And it's very easy to do with simple sales techniques and simply recognizing that unless a borrower is very savvy and knows how to shop for a mortgage, they don't know that typical VA rates are lower than rates on conventional mortgages.  They may also not realize that a "no closing cost" loan isn't always their best option, even though it sounds grrrrrrreat in marketing pieces.

 

     My hope is that the investigation into these practices leads to some predatory lenders being forced to close down (of course, after being fined out the whazoo), but while the investigation unfolds and more information comes out, I'd like to just remind the mortgage industry of a couple of things for those folks focused on helping veterans:

 

- American flag-draped marketing pieces aren't helping Veterans

- Putting the word "Veteran" in your marketing, business, or website name isn't helping Veterans

- Hiring LO's that can barely spell the word "mortgage", slapping a headset on them, setting them up on a dialer, and buying lists of former military personnel to "dial for dollars" sure as hell isn't helping Veterans

- Sending out misleading marketing mailers with impossible-to-get rates and touting your patriotism isn't helping Veterans

 

- Paying a few bucks to take some half-assed "educational" course so you can slap a "Super Offical, Most Bestest, Vet-loving, Lender EVER" badge on your email signature, is not helping Veterans.

 

What IS helping Veterans with the VA loan program?

 

For one, knowing the product so you can offer good advice in choosing the right loan (the FIRST time), so there's no need to refinance unless there's a large market shift.

VA mortgage loans

For two, taking the time to counsel Vets on the program, their options, all of the costs, and providing them with stellar service along the way.  

 

Finally, staying the hell away from the VA loan program if you don't know it, or are sitting in a dialer cube using sales scripts to try and get Veterans to unnecessarily refinance again and again because your boss showed you how much money you can make from them - THAT'S one big way you can help Veterans.

 

 

Posted by

John Meussner
NMLS ID #138061

It's more than a house - it's home.  So we offer a wide range of mortgage products at competitive prices to help our clients achieve financial security at home.  While we get great feedback on our prices and products, many clients say their favorite part of working with John Meussner & MasonMac is the level of service provided along the way.

Purchase money loans, Refinance, Renovation, Jumbo, FHA, VA, USDA, nonQM, HELOCs, and more

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Comments(25)

Laura Filip
Laura Filip Broker , Opening doors for All Seasons of Life - Whitesboro, TX
What can we do for you today?

Very interesting post for sure. Have not seen the refi options but that is not the area that I work in. Thank you for sharing. 

Sep 14, 2017 06:44 PM
John Meussner

Thanks for stopping by Laura!

Sep 15, 2017 10:01 AM
Dorie Dillard Austin TX
Coldwell Banker Realty ~ 512.750.6899 - Austin, TX
NW Austin ~ Canyon Creek and Spicewood/Balcones

Good evening John Meussner ,

Wow..learned something from your post. I don't do many VA's but now know what I'll be on the lookout for!

Sep 14, 2017 07:26 PM
John Meussner

It would be good to warn VA buyers that they'll get tons of solicitations for refinances and that not all offers will be good ones

Sep 15, 2017 10:01 AM
Kat Palmiotti
eXp Commercial, Referral Divison - Kalispell, MT
Helping your Montana dreams take root

I wasn't aware of this, and it totally ticks me off. I'm glad these practices are being investigated.

Sep 15, 2017 04:06 AM
John Meussner

Always annoys me when someone looks at our veterans as a "target market" instead of the demographic that deserves more respect than most

Sep 15, 2017 10:02 AM
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

I had not heard of this practice. I am glad they are investigating

Sep 15, 2017 04:11 AM
John Meussner

Thanks Gita!

Sep 15, 2017 10:02 AM
Lise Howe
Keller Williams Capital Properties - Washington, DC
Assoc. Broker in DC, MD, VA and attorney in DC

John - this is fantastic - and it reminds me that I owe you a picture and some information - Can we talk later this morning? (your time) - I am showing a listing at 12 noon EST - but will be available after that  until 3 pm EST - Lise 

Sep 15, 2017 04:56 AM
John Meussner

Hi Lise!  And yes, I'll give you a call between 12-3 : )

Sep 15, 2017 10:02 AM
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

Corruption is no respecter of services or products. Caveat Emptor holds....

Sep 15, 2017 06:26 AM
John Meussner

That is the truth!

Sep 15, 2017 10:02 AM
Luke Acree
ReminderMedia - King of Prussia, PA
Making Agents Memorable

John, that was an incredibly informative post. Vets don't want to be pandered to, they just want a fair shot. Targeting any group for exploitation is reprehensible, but targeting veterans is especially unacceptable.

Sep 15, 2017 07:06 AM
John Meussner

Thanks Luke - I don't understand people that make their living exploiting anyone, let alone vets and seniors, the 2 markets that seem to be the biggest targets

Sep 15, 2017 10:03 AM
Mike Frazier
Carousel Realty of Dyer County - Dyersburg, TN
Northwest Tennessee Realtor

I truly believe in capitalism but entities like this give us all a black eye!

Sep 15, 2017 09:18 AM
John Meussner

 Mike Frazier you bring up something I struggle with mightily - I too support capitalism, but it's a very fine line before capitalism turns into exploitation and greed

Sep 15, 2017 10:04 AM
Michael J. Perry
KW Elite - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster, PA Relo Specialist

VA Mortgages are great ! I would love to work w/ some Vets and get them in a no money home !

Sep 15, 2017 09:35 AM
John Meussner

Michael J. Perry Agree completely, it's the best loan product on the planet!

Sep 15, 2017 10:04 AM
Rob Spinosa
US Bank - Larkspur, CA
Mortgage Loan Originator, Marin County

We often see our newly originated VA loans immediately solicited by either the existing servicer, or someone who markets off of title lists.  I was surprised to learn that it's possible to do an IRRRL with less than six payments (not a safe harbor QM, but rebuttable presumption).  The issue I have with this is that often a vet will use a lender credit to offset closing costs.  When a loan pays off early, the vet essentially steals his closing costs from the loan originator, as many servicers slam an originator with an early payoff penalty should the loan pay off in the first six months.

 

Why am I writing this?  Not because I am trying to air a personal grievance, but because once this happens enough, the industry will get wise and the vets will ultimately lose.  There is never a free lunch, let alone a lunch that costs the investor tens of thousands.

Sep 15, 2017 01:33 PM
John Meussner

Exactly my issue - aside from potential for equity stripping the vet through 100% loan options, as you state, when the secondary market gets tired of seeing a loan with a 5 month lifespan, the parameters are going to change.  


Less secondary players = higher costs for vets.  Big picture, this is going to cause more problems than the immediate and more obvious issues.

Sep 15, 2017 02:32 PM
Corey Vandenberg
Success Mortgage Partners - Lafayette, IN
More home mortgage loan options!

VA loans are often with little to no fees, at least at my institution...

Sep 15, 2017 05:46 PM
John Meussner

How does one get a low or no cost mortgage, though?  Through a higher rate....and then they're open to a streamline refi through one of these companies churning the loans, all the while adding title costs and funding fees to the loan balance, stripping equity along the way.  Nothing wrong with an intial VA loan, it's structuring them for a future refi rather than structuring them for long term success that becomes a problem

Sep 15, 2017 05:53 PM
Jana Holmstrup
Jana Holmstrup - CCO - Kings Mortgage Services, Inc. - Visalia, CA

@Rob Spinosa's comment and your response are spot on!  This is a double whammy to our industry and our veterans!  Don't be afraid of sharing your experiences with your Regional VA Office - they don't like it either and are very responsive - last one I sent was heavily fined and taken out.  Haven't heard of this investigation, but hope it is the F-word.

Sep 15, 2017 07:34 PM
John Meussner

Thanks Jana - appreciate your addition, and good suggestion to get in touch with the regional offices when things pop up that could use some extra "attention"

Sep 18, 2017 01:24 PM
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

Thank you for this excellent post, John.  I've been hearing and seeing all sorts of commercials from some big players as well as small ones with some ridiculous promises that I know are not true aimed at vets.

Sep 16, 2017 06:17 AM
John Meussner

Thanks Gabe!  There is a lot of bad marketing out there right now, and it's not good for anyone in our industry

Sep 18, 2017 01:23 PM
Danielle O'Brien
Parkway Real Estate - West Roxbury, MA
Real estate Broker / Owner in Boston

VERY interesting article. I had no idea about the investigation and plan to read more about it. I work with a lot of VA buyers, and have lots in my SOI due to my husband, brother, brother in law, and a boatload of other family & friends having served. I feel like my company does a good job of helping them because we refer them to very trustworthy mortgage professionals who do not operate via "churning" as outlined above. We also offer a free educational seminar on VA loans once in a while - what to know, what to expect, and what to ask of your lender. 

Sep 16, 2017 07:13 AM
John Meussner

Danielle O'Brien that's awesome to hear --- this could be something to include in the "what to expect" part of your education --- the mass marketing that comes after closing a VA loan, much of which is backed with bad intentions.

Sep 18, 2017 01:23 PM
Richard Bazinet /MBA, CRS, ABR
West USA Realty - Scottsdale, AZ
Phoenix Scottsdale. Sellers, Buyers & Relocations

This may sound silly, but I did not even know this was actually going on. I'll be vigilant. That's a great post, so thank you for sharing.

Sep 17, 2017 07:21 AM
John Meussner

Not silly at all - those on the RE side typically don't see all of the refi efforts thrown at people after the home purchase, but there are plenty!


 

Sep 18, 2017 01:22 PM
Corey Martin
Martin Presence Group - Ruston, LA
Real Estate and Management Solutions

Interesting post. Disheartening, too. Thank you for bringing our attention to this. 

Sep 17, 2017 11:37 AM
John Meussner

Sure thing, Corey - something to keep VA clients aware of

Sep 18, 2017 01:21 PM
Stavrula "Sam" Crafa, RNC,GRI, CDPE, PSA
Future Home Realty - Seminole, FL
Providing the integrity and service you deserve.

I have never heard the term churning before. That's a terrible thing to do to anyone let alone a veteran. Shame on them. Thanks for the info: I learned something new today; 

Sep 20, 2017 09:42 PM
John Meussner

I'm glad, Sam - thanks for stopping by!

Sep 27, 2017 08:47 AM
Sandy Padula & Norm Padula, JD, GRI
HomeSmart Realty West & Florida Realty Investments - , CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

These 'insects' that prey upon the trusting do need to be put behind bars. White collar crime comes in many forms and it steals much more from us that a man robbing a bank. Great post!

Sep 27, 2017 04:58 AM
John Meussner

Reminds me of the saying "give a man a gun, he can rob a bank.  Give a man  bank, and he can rob the world'

Sep 27, 2017 08:47 AM
Sheri Sperry - MCNE®
Coldwell Banker Realty - Sedona, AZ
(928) 274-7355 ~ YOUR Solutions REALTOR®

Hi John Meussner ,

Congrats on the feature!  I saw this off a reblog by Nathan Gesner - I am so glad I got to see it. I will keep it at the forefront of my list of things to cover with customers who take advantage of VA loans. 

Sep 27, 2017 07:20 AM
John Meussner

Thanks Sheri!  Please do, hope we use this info as an educational opportunity for our vets

Sep 27, 2017 08:46 AM
Dorte Engel
RE/MAX Leading Edge - Bowie, MD
ABC - Annapolis, Bowie, Crofton & rest of Maryland

Dear John,

Somehow, I never get any dumb clients, who would go for this sort of thing. I have to make a living by giving people what they want and need & then finding new clients for additional business. Fortunately, a few current & past clients pass the word & honor me with referrals.

Dec 08, 2017 07:59 AM
John Meussner

That's a good thing to know, I wish everyone would be that smart!

Dec 08, 2017 02:35 PM