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Why I Think Realtors Are Missing A Great Opportunity to Connect With Mortgage Brokers

In the real estate world, Realtors are higher on the food chain than mortgage brokers. Always have been. Always will be. Which, as Lola pointed out in her well written featured post, means mortgage brokers seek out Realtor relationships, with results that are not always successful, and tactics that are not always welcome.

But I say,Realtors take note: Judging a mortgage broker by his ability to market to you might mean you are barking up the wrong tree.

It used to be that if the Realtor-dog caught a rabbit, the mortgage tail wagged. FACT: In our current market, THE TAIL IS WAGGING THE DOG.

Now it is bloody hard to get that tail to wag when it is half broken. And if the truth be known, it is not that easy to catch a rabbit when your tail is broken.. Which is why, understanding what makes the tail wag is of great importance to the Realtor-dog, especially when only the fittest will survive this miserable hunting season.

In my humble opinion, there has never been a time in our industry when Realtor/Mortgage Broker relationships were more important than they are RIGHT NOW. The woods are full of rabbits but only the MOST SKILLED hunters will come home with dinner.

Lola, I am going to defend those mortgage brokers who are sending you e-mails.

Is it possible that you are "spoiled" because you have the ability to read blogs from our group of amazingly talented mortgage professionals here on ActiveRain? I can honestly say I am blown away every week when I read the posts from Jeff Belonger's Mortgage Pro Week in Review. If your local lenders pale in comparison, I can understand why. ActiveRain houses the likes of Brian Brady, Jason Sardi, and Aaron Gordon to name only a few.

These people who send you e-mails? At least they are TRYING to connect with you. As Jason pointed out, we are beyond bringing you donuts. We know you are seeking information that will be applicable to selling more houses, and becoming a better, more successful Realtor. If the delivery isn't perfect, try not to kill the messenger.

Try to understand this perspective, which is very real to the majority of mortgage brokers: When we tried to connect with you during the BOOM, you ran the other way. We understand why. There were too many mortgage brokers, and any one of us could get the loan approved. We were a speck of dust on your shoulder and you brushed us off.

Along comes the mortgage housing crisis and our industry is considered pond scum. All hell breaks loose, lenders implode, foreclosures soar, equity tanks, and home sales take a nosedive. The new reality: guidelines (what dictate if a client can become qualified) are what matter. NOT RATES.

Rates are easy to understand and to apply. Guidelines are difficult to understand and interpret, and are applied by real people (underwriters) who are imperfect and who need romancing.

Now, those of us that have remained in the business know this to be a fact: It isn't about GETTING the loan. It is about GETTING THE LOAN DONE. Mortgage brokers have plenty of people who want loans right now, and a lot less competition.

The most important skill set we need to survive is this: marketing loans to our lenders (not marketing our services to Realtors).

My readers know by now that the most successful mortgage broker in our office does no marketing at all. But because of being a loan closing machine, Realtors flock to him.

Here is something my readers may not know: Every mortgage broker in our office has buyers looking to get qualified BEFORE they choose a Realtor. See what I mean? Tail (mortgage) wagging dog (buying the house). They are coming to us first. They need to wag before they can hunt.

So if you really want to be an outrageous Realtor? If you want to do something totally outside the box? Turn the tables. Call up a mortgage broker and ask them out for coffee.

Ask not how well your potential mortgage partner can produce marketing pieces. Ask how well he can get a loan funded.

This post was inspired by our very own outrageous Vicki Nagy. Vicki, I can't wait to meet you.

Written by Janet Guilbault, Mortgage Lending Expert based out of the San Francisco Bay Area.

Posted by Janet Guilbault California Mortgage Banker/Broker on 05/28/2008 05:48 PM

Comments (123)

realtor success strategies, mortgage crisis, success strategies, mortgage broker

Post is included in group: Mortgages
Post is included in group: Realtors®
Post is included in group: All About Mortgages/Mortgage Networking
Post is included in group: Mortgage Blogs
Post is included in group: LOANS

123 Comments on Why I Think Realtors Are Missing A Great Opportunity to Connect With Mortgage Brokers

MAY

2008

Good post. As a BROKER, I can tell you that I hate it when mortgage people stop by with food and business cards to schmooze the agents. When I went out on my own, I made it clear that my office is very different. The agents are out ON THE ROAD, not sitting at desks. I told lenders who stopped by that their cards were welcome but food was not necessary to "bribe" us into sending loans over. Only one thing counts: doing the deal. Closing the loans. In my old office, many agents scarfed up the food and the attention, but rarely sent loans over.

In my opinion, here's what you need to do to get MY business: show me you can close a loan smoothly. Work in concert with me to get the deal done. Period.

And you are absolutely right about the tail/wag now. That is 100% on. Lenders should be our allies, our equals. They shouldn't have to come around bribing us with food and gifts to get our business. And vice versa.

Make friends with a couple good lenders, and we'll get through this slowdown!

Wow Janet! All this talk about romancing, chasing tail and stuff... I'm inspired!

But seriously, the whole food chain reference is wrong in my opinion. I need that mortgage broker (ok, ok, we know I do...), and I'm finding it more challenging than ever before to find one that can reflect the same level of competency and service I hope to give my clients.

Mortgage professionals are the first and most important person in any non-cash transaction. I am all for showing the respect you all deserve.

What a coincidence. I spoke with eleven mortgage loan officers today looking for someone local with lots of experience closing 203(k) loans and the new 203 Streamline loan. The lenders that I regularly refer buyers to are not skilled in these areas. Of the eleven I spoke with, all said, "Oh yeah, we do them". When I asked how many they have closed? "Well none yet, but we know what they are."

I need a new 203(k) resource because the gentleman I've sent these borrowers to for some years is retiring. Fortunately, I found one and we'll be doing a workshop next week. I spoke with a buyer this morning who might want to do a 203(k) loan on a fire damaged foreclosure. A number of the foreclosures would be good candidates for this program.

Some times we can't wait for things to happen. Sometimes we have to make them happen.

Janet - Once again, you've hit one out of the freaking stadium! Excellent post and great advice for Realtors out there. I also think this and Lola's post are wonderful posts for all Mortgage Brokers to read and take heed too.

And to you Erica Ramus - No Food & Gifts for you:-)

Erica: Thank you for that very astute perspective. One of the reasons I like this topic is I love knowing where the AR Realtors stand on issues like this. Reading Lola's post this morning got me fired up.

You must be a great broker, Erica. The whole food thing, bribe thing is so over in my mind. This new era is all about knowing your stuff and how to get it done.

The proof is in the pudding as they say. Wait! I promise I won't bring pudding to your next sales meeting.

Okay, no food. But I do take bottles of wine!

Seriously, I gained 30 pounds (and just spent over a year working it OFF finally. It goes on so much easier!) after getting my license. NO FOOD.

Just work some magic for me and close those loans!

Jennifer, darling. Leave it to you to be inspired by the metaphors! LOL At least you appreciate them...(and use them so well yourself I might add)

I really did not mean this to be one of those "show me a little respect" posts. I am only trying to point out that there is a strange irony here. I have lots of clients who expect me to refer them to a Realtor. I think I am pretty much OUT THERE with all of my blogging.

But it is so rare that a Realtor makes the first move to get to know a mortgage broker. The few times it has happened to me I have had to pick myself up off the floor.

We have the ability to refer business as well, more than ever now. (Lenn...I know you don't accept these referals, and I respect that)_

Lenn: One of my New Year's Resolutions was to make bold moves...you are so good at that. Always play on the offensive because there is no longer a place for defensive players in this business.

You are one of few Realtors that I know that really understand the concept of how important it is to have a stable full of lenders that you can turn to when you need them.

It does not surprise me at all that you made all of those calls seeking out the expertise you need.

My gripe is Realtors who mortgage bash after things go wrong, but did not take the time and trouble to go after realtionships with quality mortgage brokers.

Jason: I loved Lola's post! I read it about 3 times, because I was so impressed that she shared what was important (in her mind). Agree that every mortgage broker needs to read that. Just sending boring e-mails without really thinking about what the Realtor needs is not going to cut it.

I wanted to bring a different perspective to things, which I hope I achieved.

Erica: Seriously, Congrats on losing all the weight. I am toasting you with some California wine right now.

Janet, Thank you for this post. You were actually one of the excellent mortgage professionals that was on my mind as I wrote my post last night. The point I was making was that I think that there is a huge opportunity being missed to build relationships through this new social media which I would love to see more local lenders take advantage of.

I can't tell you how many times changes have occurred within the financial world this past year and I've been grateful to get perspective from a lender. I don't consider myself 'spoiled' I consider myself fortunate & blessed to have met so many remarkable individuals through online platforms.

Unfortunately, too many times, the information about some of these changes has come to me late on the local scene or lenders have not weighed in at all. E-mail blasts do have a place in marketing although I personally don't use them to make decisions about referring partners. Social media creates significant opportunities for informed connections and relationships...something which weekly e-mails alone cannot achieve.

The post was not intended to be lender bashing at all...in fact the reverse was the case. It's a wish list of some of the things which I'd love to read from lenders & which I know the clients I work with would also appreciate knowing as well.

Lola: Please know that in no way did I feel you were mortgage bashing. I am thrilled that someone like you has taken on this delicate topic and handled it so well. I would agree with everything you said, and think every mortgage broker needs to see things from the perspective of the Realtor. Sharing these kinds of things are what makes this site great.

Trust me when I say, you would know if I felt this was a lender bashing piece. Ask anyone how crazy I can get when I feel like our industry has been featured in unfairly and in a poor light.

I feel like I have single handedly cleaned up mortgage broker bashing here in the rain. When it happens I scream all the way to the RainGods about it. The point being we are here to support each other and create some badly needed respect and understanding.

I thought the subject should be looked at from a different perspective, taking into account the changes (that you mentioned) in our industry.

Janet.... I had to step back a few times from this, because I don't want my words to sound negative... just trying to give honest feedback from being on the street for the most part for almost 16 years.

First off... ;o( You mentioned my group... thanks. But I wasn't listed in the names mentioned for loan officers?

But on a more serious note... I read Lola's post and I think she was right on. Janet, I think you are one of the better writer's here on AR when it comes to open discussion blogs such as this. But I think what you wrote is a two-fold and if you read Lola's post, she gives you the answers.

You talk about realtors complaining about phone calls and e-mails, from loan officers trying to get business. Let me spin this around. Don't you get tired of hearing from consumers that tell you that they got a great rate. This is the first thing out of their mouth? Then you start trying to educate them, telling them that there is more to it than rate?

Okay, now, what about these same loan officers trying to get a realtors attention. You tell us that you don't fault them for trying. That they should be given a chance. I disagree for two reasons. It would take more than a loan officer telling me to give them a chance, just based on that statement alone.... or that they tell me that they are really, really good. Okay... and I am the President of the United States. Both statements are just that, statements. We know the 2nd one is false, because we know who the President of the United States is. In regards to the first statement? It's unknown.... would you be willing to take that chance, especially if you already have a lender? Do you fix what is not broken? Sure, you might think you have a great loan officer and the one asking for business might be better. But a few things need to happen to know this.

So, what are those things that need to happen? If I was a realtor and my current loan officer dropped the ball and you stepped in and got it done? Okay... eye opener. Some proof in my so-called pudding. Or, I am the listing agent and you pull a deal together and quickly, after the other lender dropped the ball. I will want to meet you. or I get extremely creative in trying to meet you. I left this in Lola's post... check it out. 05/28/2008 04:30 PM

Sorry that this was long... but overall, you need to put yourself out there and then ask for business. Write more educational posts about types of loans.... specialize in something. As you stated in another blog, you are talented when it comes to a post of this nature. Take it to the next step. FACT, FACT, FACT.... not always just opinion. Let consumers and realtors know that you know what you are talking about and not just preaching it. This is not directed at you.... but to loan officers in general.

But after reading both of these posts several times.... what you are talking about is no different than what was talked about 10 years ago. Back then, it was food and rate sheets. Write blogs about yourself and about your clients. Write about the experiences that other consumers are going through and how to possibly avoid them. Lastly, put yourself in a realtor's shoes. I do this often.... would you want to get countless e-mails from loan officers? Phone calls? If you are going to go this route, be creative. Get recognized another way. I wrote a comment about this on myspace. Be different and not like the herd.

Just my .02.... because I took the approach that Lola mentioned... and not to brag, but I have 1 realtor in Cali., 1 in Vegas, 1 in MI, 1 in AL, 1 in NC, 1 in DC, and 1 in FL that want to work with me, all because of blogging. 3 of these realtors mentioned have already referred me at least one deal as we speak. And I am not talking about local realtors. Again, you have a gift for writing... I do not... I have to think hard. I am creative, but it doesn't always flow in words on paper. Use that to your benefit. But change up the posts.... a few of these, thought provoking are good.... they get the comments that many of us like. (but these won't get you most of the business, in my opinion).... my educational posts don't usually get as many comments.... but they get me leads from consumers and sometimes realtors or loan officers. Not trying to toot my own horn. I fell into this... but now I am utilizing this blogging thing and the AR platform to my advantage. They will come to you, but you have to show them first. In all honesty, I would want the same. Wouldn't you?

jeff belonger

Amen Janet

PS.... I just read Lola's comment and your comment, Janet. Okay, I'll step up and bash the mortgage industry. I think it's been more pathetic this year than in recent years. So many loan officers have few products left and these programs where the foundation of mortgages. 30 yr fixed conventional and FHA... the playing field is more leveled now. The average loan officer can woo the average consumer with a mortgage program that you can hide behind. One that has so many negatives or loop holes, that I can tell you the positives and you'll miss the negatives until it's too late.

How about loan officers learning how to read credit reports, down to the "t".... to the exact detail and not just through crap out there to the consumer, to get them in the door.

Again.... I will bash with respect. I agree with Lola.... get off your ass (Janet, not YOU).... (to loan officers) and make it happen and not with just e-mails and phone calls. Learn more..... be able to take a file and rip it apart just like an underwriter. That's what I started to do in my 3 rd year in this business.... know how to look at a file, dissecting income, credit, and assets... stop being a paper pusher and an order taker. That's the main problem with this business. Learn more than just the fundamentals. This is just my opinion... but if you spoke to 30 to 50 underwriters in a room, they would say exatly what I just said... again, just my .02, but it's the same feedback that I have gotten from underwriters about other loan officers.

Overall.... look at it from a realtors perspective and this might help more. It's helped me... it's not what you can do for me, it's what I can do for you. And the problem here, those are just words. Anyone can shout them out, making them sound convincing..... blog about what you can do.... not only show your knowledge, but show your personality. Interact with the realtors for more than just weeks and months. I have been blogging for 18 months.... Just in the last 1 1/2 months did these realtors come to me.... it takes time and I am not talking about weeks. Your average loan officer gives up after 6 months....(in whatever they are trying.... visiting an officer, calling someone, blogging).... in many cases, this is not long enough.

jeff belonger

I choose to work with professionals that have a record of getting the job done in a professional manner. Lenders are also people who like us are trying to make a living. I don't mind a cup of coffee and talking story. It doesn't mean we are doing business. My client will always come first.

here here. i'm tired of doing all the work. and having the military relocate my family again is making it more difficult. i'd love to have a realtor contact me out of the blue.

Jeff--you're RIGHT ON! Once a Realtor finds someone they are COMFORTABLE with, who does a good job, just try prying them away from that trusted lender to toss you a bone. Not easy. WHY? Because if it's a solid relationship (realtor sends buyer to lender, lender gets it done TIME AFTER TIME) he/she will be reluctant to "give a new lender a chance." Any why should we? Why mess with a good thing that works?

If you're courting agents, you need to sell them on what you can do, and prove it. Not stuff them with food & bribes. I don't care about your kids and you don't care about mine. Let's be honest. I don't want another friend (who's out there courting all my competition, and maybe sending clients to them, too). That's another post.

What do you do to get my business? Get my attention. Show me what you can do. By blogging, by bringing me new products, by sending me flyers (and not just about today's rate) with case studies ....

"When Jeff and Mary were turned down by their bank in the 11th hour, we wrote the loan and closed the deal in 5 days. Call me to see what I can do for you!"

I have one mortgage person who's been bugging me for over a year to try her. I did. I had a new buyer call in and I gave this person 3 names to call--including this new girl. She called me to COMPLAIN that I sent her a bum lead! Buyer had a 540 credit score. "Send me your GOOD ONES, and I'll hit a home run," she said. OKAAAAAAY. "Don't send me the junk." I swear she said that. Do you think I've sent her ANYTHING again???? So this one lead did turn out to be tough. She should have told the buyer she couldn't do it, and shut her mouth. Not called me to COMPLAIN!

Jeff: My very first thought on your comment is how much I love your passion. Please know that passion makes up for any weakness you may have in writing....and by the way, I think you write well. Please don't sell yourself short.

Don't you get tired of hearing from consumers that tell you that they got a great rate?

Never! Let the phone ring off the hook with consumers. I won't close them all, but I want the chance with as many as I can. I maintain most consumers spew out "rate" questions when they really are shopping for someone who knows their stuff and cares about them.

my educational posts don't usually get as many comments.... but they get me leads from consumers and sometimes realtors or loan officers

I aspire to this, Jeff. And admire you and others like you, who write for the consumers and land the leads as a result. I believe you are saying I should be more factual if I want consumer leads? I agree with this.

would you be willing to take that chance, especially if you already have a lender? Do you fix what is not broken?

My position on this would be (assuming I am a Realtor), that I am always open to the idea of adding a smart, proven lender to the list of my mortgage partners. No, I would not take chances. I would ask for referrals from other Realtors, and from clients, after deciding to add him to the list.

My point is this: Connecting with the best mortgage brokers in the business should be something that should not be left to chance by a Realtor.

Great stuff Ladies and Gentlmen. I agree 110% with both Jef and Janet. It is about getting the deal funded under a true upfront disclosure. I just got a deal cause I told and disclosed a True GFE and did not under price fees and cost. Who cares if you quote a low rate and then can not deliver. That is why our side of real estate gets a bad rep from time to time Realtors all shop for the lowest cost when right now its about closing and funding the deal. We all hate the bait and switch lo's out there and there are less of them out there now. Realtors just ask yourself is it better to have your client know the true cost and have a professional that understands the new guidelines to help navigate the minefield or a bad unpleasant experience that you will never get another referral from that client again because you recomended that non professional lo's that quoted a rate and could not deliver?????

Steven: A cup of coffee is like going to lunch as a first date. It is just a way of getting to know each other. I don't think anyone would see this as a committment to do business. Clients should come first, but you must judge what is best for your client if you refer a Realtor.

And when the loan doesn't go thru....who do they blame....the Loan Originator! I don't think most realtors understand that. If they really understood what the LO goes thru to make it work.....like negotiating fees, something a realtor did wrong on the contract and the lender wants an answer, closing on time....ect. It is almost a miracle sometimes that a clients loan even goes thru....Alot of clients lie about there credit, or don't mention something...and then it comes out a few days before closing and the LO is working late to make it happen. Then the Realtor sends flowers to the title company for a job weel done? I don't get that one....Every loan I have done is complete before it goes to title and escrow, and they don't need to do much except check our work and finish the signing.

So Jeff: Your second comment is part of what this post is about. It is all about knowing your stuff now. It is more important to know how to fund a loan than how to find a loan.

Secondly, you are correct about persistance. In fact, I would say that even if the content was not that good, I would have to give someone points for consistantly contacting me, time after time, over and over. Maybe his message wasn't the best. Maybe I got tired of being bothered. But someday, I just might say, "hey, if this guy want to do business with me so bad, maybe I'll call him".

Consistancy counts!!!! The flash in the pan brilliant blogger can be trumped by the average guy that keeps adding to his data base, and sending out those e-mails. Lots of closed deals began with someone being "annoyed" by sales tactics.

Crystal: I know what you mean. The protocol says we chase them for business, not the other way around. That said, perhaps we should think about the opportunity that web 2.0 offers us in terms of educating the Realtor community about what is going on in the lending world. Sometimes I think they hesitate to call because they feel we would see it as some sort of committment.

We should all try to make it normal to rely on each other, to call each other, and to be friends. Glass half full, not half empty.

Janet... really quick... I am so behind.... I will comment more about your comments later... but I wanted to point out 2 things.

1. Persistance..... this could cost the realtor money, a client, and referrals. Janet, persistance sometimes got me a realtor or a consumer. But let's stop fooling ourselves. If you have a lender that has come through time after time... In all honesty, I don't care how many times that other lender contacts me.... why take that risk? You are selling to the wrong person. I did this one, with a title person. I had my two title companies, but she was persistant.... I gave her a shot (with a deal)...but yes, she was cute. What a disaster... the very good realtor will not take this chance. if they did, without knowing me, just based on persistance, I would be leery of that realtor also. But more on this later.

2. Chuck.... okay, I want to be nice about this... yes, as a loan officer, we do a lot of things behind the scenes.... credit counceling... credit clean up.... gathering information, and educating.... but I have to question you on this one. you said... " If they really understood what the LO goes thru to make it work.....like negotiating fees,".......

Negotiating what fees? Janet...which would bring me to something else that you stated, that I am opposed against... but I will comment about this later. I still have 4 clients I need to get back to tonight, as promised... 3 of them just from blogging... 1 of those 3 from a realtor that never met me.... but reads my blogs. Not trying to rub it it... but a business plan is important... so is a blogging plan. Yes, some feel comfortable with certain types of blogs to write..... but which type of 2 blogs will get you the most business?

jeff belonger

It would be wonderful if a Realtor called me up and asked if I wanted to go out for coffee but its usually the other way around asking me to bring them coffee lol....but anyways yeah your right theres always that flipside of the spectrum. I actually got a few phone calls from realtors wanting to see if we can work together so it does happen. Great reverse post.

Hi Chuck: Part of being a mortgage broker is having skin like leather. I always accept blame, even if I am not at fault. It moves the transaction along, and diffuses things. I wrote about this one time, and honestly, not too many people agreed with this.

Maybe it is up to us to help Realtors understand what it takes to complete a loan. Maybe we should grab the opportunity to educate them. I agree there is a level of distrust, and every Realtor has a story about a loan that blew up. Building trust and respect is never easy, however, and with a large commission also in the mix, it is a steep hill.

AWWWW.....they sent flowers to the title company?

Great Post!!! As an insurance agent I have tried to align with real estate proffesionals without success. Your statement that you have to find the best people to deal with your in contact sphere is right on target. I refer a dozen clients a year to mortgage brokers because of their customer sevice level and willingness to refer back. I have not been able to create that condition with a real estate person. In fact there are several real estate agents that I tell my clients not to deal with because of how they treat people.

Janet.... just really quick... not trying to be negative at all.... but that comment, "We should all try to make it normal to rely on each other, to call each other, and to be friends. Glass half full, not half empty."

This is not Ms Mom's bake-off contest and we all put on our smiley faces... kisses on the cheeks. Think of this as a contact sport... football. You think I am going to tackle the guy who has the football with ballarnia shoes on and a smile? This is a business..... we can be friends... we can be friends outside of business. I had a realtor friend that gave this loan officer that was a female with great legs, all his business. I had a realtor give someone all of her business, but would complain to me about him.... his high rates, fees, never calling back... but the only deal that she ever gave me was her brother's deal.

My point.. what is my point... I am tired and I should be calling these clients.... but business is business. You are asking people to give you a chance... a chance because you are nice... a chance because you are persistent. Maybe a chance, because there is enough business to go around...

NO, NO, NO... the last one? Why take that risk. I was told by a realtor that she gave a deal to someone else, because he was begging for a deal. They felt sorry for him... okay, he got it, but he screwed it up. The next one, I got it. But you know what.... I want them all. If I am that good and you know it as a realtor and you don't have problems with me? Then why take that risk.... sorry, but I will stand by this statement... sometimes the only way to prove something is when it falls in your lap.... when another lender drops the ball... those are sometimes the best openings... I had 3 of them in April, thanks to loan officers that dropped the ball. Since then, I have received 3 deals from on realtor, who I have never met and who is in another state. What about patience, instead of persistance? What about educating, instead of writing thought provoking posts that look good, might show character and warmth, but doesn't show if you could still get it done. ????

jeff belonger

Joe, that is a very sad comment. I am sure there are some good agents (I HOPE!) you can someday trust to refer business to. Keep trying! Maybe ask your favorite mortgage brokers who THEY like to work with.

Thanks, Janet. I was told by a good friend of mine a couple years ago when I started in this business that realtors and lenders need each other. That being said, I've always admired the realtors and the job they do. I know I proably couldn't or wouldn't be interested in their job. My approach has always been low-key where I've also tried to provide value to the realtors. Whether it's an article , email, phone call or coffee, my focus is to let the realtor know I'm in it for the long haul and I expect the same. All my purchases to date have gone well due to, I believe, good and thorough communication. If I have buyer leads I will definitiely try and pair them up with the right realtor. As we go forward, I believe it's all about relationships. The realtors I know are top notch in my book. I'm always open to adding to my contacts although I find I really like the group I know now. It's funny about if you just keep showing up and doing the right thing you're handsomely rewarded. That's as it should be! Have a fantastic day!

Paul

Wow Jeff, what got you going tonight? So I am PollyAnna and you are Joe Montana?

I am not asking anyone to take a chance by referring a client to a lender because they have great legs, would be a great friend, because they are nice, because they are persistant, or because they begged for the deal.

In fact, I am suggesting the opposite. I am suggesting that Realtors make it a point to develop relationships based on "how well the lender can fund a loan". I am suggesting that Realtors make connections, find common ground, check references, and treat these relationships as if they were interviewing someone to be their assistant.

Jeff, these relationships must start somewhere. Every river has a source....Every new relationship carries risk before reward. Just because you have a relationship that is working well does not mean that is the ONLY relationship you can/should have. Just because someone "courts" you does not mean they are an annoying pest you must write off.

I am sorry to tell you this, Jeff, but I choose persistance, not patience. One is pro-active, one is not.

And as for your last sentance, what are you saying, Jeff? Shall I take this statement personally? That you think PollyAnna is all fluff?

Paul: You have a great attitude, no wonder you have been so successful. It is about relationships, I would agree with that. In a business relationship, I believe you need to provide value to the Realtor.

To be an actual partner, you must provide this value not only within a transaction, but throughout the year doing just the kinds of things you mentioned.

The trick is to generate new relationships, and to never just sit back and be satisfied with what you have. Second trick is to do it while being persistant, but not annoying.

All of these are delicate lines.

And this my friends, is what is so great about Active Rain. Two savvy professionals offering their perspective-I tip my hat to both you Janet, and Lola. Our industry needs more Lenders and Realtors of your calibur!

PS: Was just in the Walnut Creek area this past weekend. LOVE IT there!!

Colleen: You were in Walnut Creek for the Memorial Day Holiday? I promise it is normally warmer here!!!! Fun city, huh? Hopefully you shopped....how could you resist if you didn't?

I really enjoy reading the comments from the brilliant and creative minds on Active Rain. It is always good to build new relationships/business. Like someonehere said,new business will keep you in business. As long as you know the products very well and have a track record of closing deals quickly then lets do coffee. Okay! I dont coffee but you know what I mean let's talk. Great post Janet.

This is a major reason I have a mortgage leg of my business. I DEPEND on a quality company who can deliver on time closing with accurate GFE vs. HUD statements.

A Realtor and a mortgage professional are reflective of each other and need to work hand in hand through every transaction...even when it gets tough. I don't want donuts or wine...I want results.

Janet--- First of all, thank you for the mention. I am truly honored.

Its a great post!!! You make an excellent point...as usual!

As lenders, we are all selling vanilla ice cream today. You can get nearly every available product from every lender. Its very minor what separates our product line and rates.

So what does separate us?? Experience and the talent to get a loan closed.

It is not easy closing loans today. It is very difficult. More challenging than anytime I can remember.

It takes a well-packaged loan, a very well thought-out loan interview, and then the ability to correctly convey the borrower's financial story to the underwriter to get approval.

In my opinion, it takes decent writing skills, great communication skills, superior salemanship, and a desire to fight for what you believe in.

There are so many things that can blow up your loan today. Some may seem very small. They arent.

Failure to properly package a loan today, and then sell its merits, regardless of how good you think the loan is, will likely result in a decline. Even if they have 800+ credit scores.

Not all loan officers have what it takes today. Even if they are very experienced, they may not be able to sell their loans to an underwriter. Because they never had to worry about it before, they have difficulty recognizing the minutia that can kill a deal.

Thats why we even see veterans of our industry leaving. They dont have the desire to work as hard as it takes to get a loan through today.

But how do you know if you have a talented LO? If you have had a loan declined after a pre-approval letter was written lately, that should be the first warning.

If it happens twice you need to start looking around for a back-up and dont be afraid to double app loans with the new guy. If he wants your business, he will welcome second position and the double app.

Forget the donuts, coffee and generic email flyers. Its very simple. Ask the lender for the names of two other real estate agents you can call on to see if he has performed for them lately. His record in the last three - four months is what you want to know. It was easy before that.

I get a loan week today from deals that are blowing up at the 11th hour, all because the loan was simply not packaged right so the borrower was told he was getting something he cant get.

Today, its not about programs and rates. Its about knowing the loan programs and the ability to honestly say what you can do at the point of the loan application and then executing your promise with a successful close. That is incredibly rare today. You are lucky if there are 10 of these capable guys (and ladies) in your entire hometown.

And because of their talent and ability to close loans, these people are busy. They arent looking for more business so they arent coming to you....you need to find them. Your commissions may depend on it.

I would call any lender who actively blogs original content on Active Rain WAY before I would trust the guy who sends me generic emails. Even if he is in a different state.

When I was looking to expand my business, I came right here for help. I recruited Rey Gallegos from here for my team and I hit a home run. Rey is a brilliant loan officer with his own flourishing business.

Why do I recommend this? Because the lenders on Active Rain care enough to stay informed and that's half of the battle today.

This place is a tremendous resource for agents and lenders. And if I were looking for a new lender, or a back up, I would only look here.

Very well written. I just posted a response to your post on my blog but the summary...we need to be working together. I get spammed like you wouldn't believe and I just don't have time for folks who don't have time for me. Not to be mean but when you're running a hot little real estate group that traveling at 200MPH, that's just how it goes. If they really wanted my business, I don't need doughnuts (butt is fat enough thank you), I need someone who can be a team player, close the deal, and reciprocate business in kind.

Great post! I agree completely with the real estate agent seeking out the mortgage broker. I know that I personally like to do repeat business with the mortgage broker that makes sure the deal get's closed. In this market, to many deals fall apart at the last minute because of financing!

I wrote a post over 6 months ago.... and I stated: "Who's buying the donuts now?"

Strong lender relationships is a key for realtors now. And maybe it is time to make sure there are some backups in place. ANYBODY's mortgage company can implode.... realtors need to be proactive here and learn more about the process.

I still laugh to myself when I am mixing with realtors.... an they find out that I am a lender they start ducking me like I am going to ask them for business.... I understand a little.... but if I were a realtor I would take EVERY opportunity to get perspective from EVERY lender I came across.

Janet,

I am both a realtor and a mortgage person, being a mortgage person first. I hate to say it but many of my experiences with other mortgage people as a realtro has been disappointing

Janet, I happen to talk to my lender at least 4-5 times a week. I know the underwriter, processor and the assistant. I should take them all to lunch one of these days. We did not have the boom but the business is good. I am lucky as I am able to direct about 20-25 closed sales to my lender each year. It makes life so easy. I send her the new realtors and the older ones who know less.

I appreciate them when I have to deal with some of the out of town yo-yos. I had one tell me today his back office was backed up and he needed three more weeks to close. I think he could care less.

Hello Janet, great post. The bottom line is Communication and Customer Service. I was a Mortgage Broker and I now bank in the Banking Business. Yes, Realtors are skeptical about using Mortgage Brokers, but what has kept me successful as a former Mortgage Broker and Now a Mortgage Banker is keeping my Realtors and Customers educated and in constant communication through the entire loan process. There is a BIG difference and a Huge Advantage of Being a Mortgage Banker and that is because as a Banker, I now have the access to have Direct Contact with the Investor and I am able to close all of my loans in the Banks name. As a Broker, I had to work harder to keep that communication line open with the Investor because a Broker do not have All the advantages as a Banker. It just means as a Broker, I had to always be 5 steps ahead of the game to make sure the loan closed on time. My business now has increased tremendously because I work for a very good Bank and my resources are unlimited. But again, it still comes down to the Level of Professionalism of the Loan Officer and how well they educate their clients and keep everyone informed. Communication is the key especially now in the mortgage industry. Good Luck to you !

Wow, Aaron. You blow me away. Your comment communicates my point far better than I was able to do myself. You really raise the bar around here.

I read every word, and your writing just leaves me speechless. I am, as always, your raving fan, and will need to read this one over and over again.

For not only communicating this so well, but for understanding the point of it all, I applaud you.

That comment is a keeper.

Tom: Amen. You have expressed my sentiments exactly. Those Realtors who are ducking should be sucking (up all the info they can). I have had this same experience, but then remember, I came out of the car business. (No one likes a car salesman)

When I used to tell people that I was in the car business, everyone developed an immediate allergic reaction to me. Personally, I found it funny.

Now, I find myself to be the center of attention socially as a result of being the mortgage expert. Realtors are hungry for info, but usually only know how to approach a lender by saying "What are rates today?" I think they should develop a better line, don't you?

I always want to say, I don't bite. I don't pounce. I'm just like you, trying to make a living.

Janet - I really can't agree with your comment that lenders are lower on the food chain than Realtors. I am going to come back and read all of the comments.

I have 2 lenders that I work with by choice. I feel it is a partnership and that we are both working together with my buyer.

Thanks for the excellent post - I will be back!

I don't mind mortgage types soliciting my business. That is a legitimate way to get business. However, I already have trusted and proven mortgage brokers and I have no desire to replace them. For me, putting deals together is the easy part. Getting clients is the hard part. I can't afford to take a chance on an unproven mortgage broker.

Janet, some great reading and some great comments. Jeff made some great points about building relationships. Those relationships will via the web must be build on consitancy and value. aj

Virginia: The reason I started this post with that statement is because mortgage brokers seek business from Realtors. Realtors, to the best of my knowledge, usually do not go out seeking business from mortgage brokers.

By saying this, I do not mean that mortgage people are less important in the transaction. I am just turning things upside down a little....

You are lucky to have such great partners.

Janet, fantastic post- I love all of the analogies. I hadn't thought about it before, but what you say makes perfect sense.

Jonathan: I will read your post when I finish answering the comments. I guess I am amazed at all the spamming the Realtors are getting from mortgage brokers. I had no idea that was happening.

Everyone has made it clear the gig is up with bribes, but I am wondering what it would take for you to consider someone new? You say they have to perform, but how can they show you they are capable of meeting your demands? What would someone need to do to hook up with a 200mph company?

Eric: Thank you for your perspective. Lots of interesting comments in this thread. Congratulations! I think anyone who can say their business increased in this market is doing great.

I have always believed that brokers had more options to offer, and never saw how the communication would be more direct via banking.

We have a banking branch and all of the brokers hate using it, far prefer to broker loans. Some say brokers are being sqeezed out, to perhaps all of us will end up as bankers.

I will say I wish the communication was better. Being a broker subjects you to another layer...not to mention how short staffed all of the lenders are these days...turn times...15 days? Gimme a break.

Russ: But as a mortgage broker, you never had a bad experience with a Realtor?

Eric: Yeah, well, I may have to move back to New Orleans, pull out all my Southern belle charm, and try to take that business away from her. I have no one who gives me over 2 loans a month.

Eric, Trust me on this one. They should be taking you out to lunch. To Commanders Palace for a big steak...(Is Commander's Palace still there?)

MAY

2008

Great post.

NationwideShort Sale & Foreclosures

You know, I personally really can't stand mortgage brokers. How bout connecting with Home Loan Consultants. We won't gauge your customers with fees and hidden points on the back end of a loan.

I have two potential closings tomorrow that have a great chance of being delayed because in both cases my buyers selected out of town mortgage brokers against my advice.

I personally hate situations like this because I have no idea what their competence level may be and how much they want to get my deal done.

Whereas if they had selected one of the local lenders I regularly recommend and that I know that are highly experienced, can make their own decisions, and want to get the deal closed as quickly as possible in order to move on to the next one I feel sure we would be closing both on time tomorrow.

No credit issues or other glitches with the buyers, it's just the lenders dragging their feet and making excuses.

It's mortgage bankers that are missing the bet by not allying themselves with producing Realtors.

Jim: I know it is difficult and nerve wracking when closings are delayed. My opinion is that the Realtor should always be in the loop, feeding the Realtor constantly, so that they never have that feeling you describe. (I used to be a Realtor, and really can feel your pain)

This is not a defense of those lenders not communicating, only a reflection of the current market: lenders have cut their staff to the bone, and are taking longer than ever to underwrite files and review appraisals. I am now recommending 45 to 60 day contracts for this very reason. (Your client could be perfect, but bank could drag their feet)

And with regards to your comment about bankers......right now it is a HUGE advantage to have has many lenders as you can...at least when a loan falls apart, we can try again with a different lender, or send the loan through the best 2 lenders just as a safety precaution.

Marc: Your negative comments about mortgage brokers are out of line. In this forum we respect one another and don't tear down or insult others in our profession by making generalizations as you have done.

I can assure comments like this in the future will not be welcome by any of our members, nor will it drive business your way.

Janet: Interesting post and comments! Being that I am a mortgage broker who doesn't call on Realtors, I thought that I would be able to offer a slightly different perspective on the conversation. So, here goes.

Calling on Realtors (as a whole) sucks. The sad facts of the matter are that there are (still) too many Realtors out there and that its' way too easy to get a real estate license. The end result is that if you're too ill tempered, ill mannered or irresponsible to hold down a regular job and you haven't been convicted of a felony (recently) and you can pass a test, you too can be a real estate professional.

Just about any loan officer who has been in the business for any length of time will have horror stories of Realtors behaving badly.

The problem with mortgage bankers/brokers is that over the last 10 years or so we've become just as bad! Even the big companies...maybe even especially the big companies....(a wink towards Mr. DeSantis) have flooded the real estate offices with loan officers and I can completely see where it would be irritating to the agents.

All that said, I believe in the golden rule....that is, he with the gold makes the rules! Whoops, not that one, the other one...the one that says treat others as you would want to be treated.

Far too many agents forget this. They'll bitch and moan about that FSBO that hung up on them, then they'll turn around and be rude to the young guy who is attempting to get his foot in the door! If nothing else, you can at least be polite! A bit of loyalty wouldn't be bad either when a loan officer does a good job for you!

To you loan officers out there....you have to understand that the simple ways of attempting to get a real estate agents attention aren't going to work any more. There are simply too many of you calling on the agents and flooding their email boxes and fattening them up with donuts isn't going to do the trick.

As somebody above pointed out, you're going to have to be more creative and consistent with your marketing efforts. That said, I think that I've just come up with my next post idea! I am going to have to start paying you royalties, aren't I Janet?

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Bob: Always happy to inspire a great writer and thinker such as yourself. I like your thoughts on the subject, but was wondering....why don't you call on Realtors?

How do you think Realtors would like to be called on if not via e-mail? I do not agree with calling on the offices, and really don't believe on being at their marketing meetings (where they present listings)

So what does that leave? A paper newsletter? A telephone call? The post that inspired this one (by Lola)...she said she would like to be called. Do you think most Realtors feel this way? If so, when?

Janet - I am back to say that I will take all of those donuts that nobody else wants.

Re: my comment about the food chain, nevermind, I get it now. :)

Everytime I walk into my office, I find rate sheets, etc, from loan guys. Do I read them, no, they are not relevant to me. Today's rate is useless information - who can say if it applies to my buyer without a meeting with the buyer. Any buyer that I am working with has already been to a lender. The emails - delete and send to junk.

I won't put a transaction at risk by sending a buyer to a lender that I do not know.

A lender that has taken the time to come to my office to meet with me and tell me how he works and give me some Realtor's names that he has worked with, maybe.

I came from California in 2005 with 4 years RE exp. I was the 'new kid' here and didn't know lenders here. While waiting for my license - I asked Realtors which loan company and which title company they recommended. I made a long list of each. I visited every one on the list and introduced myself and asked 'what can you do for me and my clients? What do you have that I can give to potential buyers and sellers, what tools do you have that I can use?'

The next day on my desk was a complete package from one loan rep, Kathy Hadden, sample applications, loan info, open house tools, info about the company, list of references, handouts for buyers and sellers, etc. She called me the next day and asked for an appointment. This is one of the busiest and sought after loan reps here. She does a great job, now with WF.

She was the only one of a dozen who even contacted me. One other dropped off a rate sheet.

Same scenario with the title co. Only one.

I have others that I work with, but those 2 are still my first choice.

I do get calls from my blog and other social networks that I belong to, about loans out of my state. I send them to Jeff Belonger. Even if he can't do it, I know that he will talk to them and I am 100% confident that he will find someone in their location who will.

In Calif, I had 2, one at Countrywide, one a broker. They got all of my business because of their superior performance.

Thanks, Janet for the thought-provoking post and comments.

Virginia, I understand that it takes time to develop that relationship and trust me when I say this you are few and far between, Just remember that new person that is willing to sit and meet just my help take you to that next level. Just when I meet a new agent, I have 800 number for listings, websites and marketing knowledge and still find it hard to get to the top people like yourself. U need to bring something to the table. When finish my meeting with I do not know if we will be great for each other and I respect that you have a couple of lenders in place but let's start with a couple of deals/pq's and I will send over a cuple of FSBO and new listing to see if we can work well with each other fair enough???? Just my point of view

I would love to take a local Mortgage broker with a list of prequalified leads out for coffee, heck I'll spring for a sandwich. ;)

Great Post.

I would love to take a local Mortgage broker with a list of prequalified leads out for coffee, heck I'll spring for a sandwich. ;)

Great Post.

See Dave this is what we are talking about. What are you bring to the table then????? Sure everyone would like to have pq leads to work but that is not the real world. What do you think a mortgage broker will just give them to you just cause. We all get pq's people and with developing business relationship with pros with know like and trust naturally send those realtors that get it and continue to give and recieve that is the way we are talking about. Just the way you say you would spring for a sandwich tell me that you do not have any loyalties you should at least take them out for a nice dinner with the wives one night to again develop the friend/ relationship

Dave On an average house of about $325,000 and 3% commission is about $9750 if only one of the referrals pans out...and you might even spring for a sandwich? You generosity is....(speechless).

Great post...and even better debate. Janet I love reading you posts! The market is changed and we need to work herder for the business we acquire.

Janet: Great post. Now that things are turned around perhaps Realtors will see that without a loan the sale doesn't matter. When the market was hot if the deal fell out there was another potential buyer in line, not so today. Having a loan originator with Great financial contacts and knowledge makes all the difference in the deal - it gets done. Patti - Capital Line Funding Group - CA

Wooooowwwww! Will & Chuck, Absolutely no sense of humor at all. That's too bad.

The ;) in my comment is a "wink". as in..."wink, wink" I am being sarcastic. Thanks for trying to explain how to network though... The mortgage companies I currently work with know to send their leads to me because.

ONE: their clients will be very well taken care of.

TWO: I work hard for them and put their best interests first.

THREE: I always refer my unapproved clients back to them.

We go out and eat with our families because we have already established this relationship, not because they feel I owe them or they owe me.

MAY

2008

If I had to rely solely on the real estate community I would not have been in the business for 22 years. The real estate community remains an important part of my business plan but to be frank I work with a select few that understand the value I bring to them plus I make sure I am available for them and the client. My main focus is on my "warm" market plus my other strategic business partners such as CPA's, Financial Planners, attorneys and so forth.

If a like-minded realtor calls and wishes to work with me I certainly wouldn't turn it down. I have the pleasure and privilege to work with a group of Realtors that are really fine professionals and great people. I appreciate professionalism.

This was a great post and great comments by others.

Have a great year.

JUN

2008

Janet,

Here is what I like about the community here in Active Rain. They are saavy business professionals. They understand what is going on and think outside the box. I have been advocating for my years in the business the better need for mutual respect amongst the two most imporatant people in a Real Estate Sale. Since we all like our own team there has always been skepticism. Doubting each others ability came first if you had never heard the name instead of thinking I may have a new business partner.

One of my Realtor partners here in Roseville I met with in 2006. I told her that if she were to walk in to a Mortgage brokers office and say that she was looking to build a few new realtionships she would have had Mortgage Professionals diving at her feet trying to win her business. They would have referred there only deal to her hoping to get her business in return. She never did take my advice and I never quite understood why Real Estate Agents could not see the opportuntiy.

Mortgage Professionals are taught to establish relationships with Realtors and as in the first comment for this blog show up with food which gets you in the door. From there the rest is history we are thrown out on our but. A chance to prove our ability to get a deal done only comes with trust and opportunity. Talk does not work. Our office posts our production. There is no faking. Our office is also a community. There are no bad loan officers at Capitol Mortgage. A Realtor should do company research and then come by. They will be suprised at the reult.

Janet you and I think so much a like. You are a trmendous writer and I am certain that you are a tremendous Loan officer. I look forward to reading your posts. Active Rain Loan Officers can get the job done. One suggestion that we are doing here is holding training classes for Realtors onb topics. This way they come to us and we can leave out the bagels and the brownies and fill them up with some information that will help close a deal.

Keep writing you are right own.

And the final answer is?

Final answer: Realtors have the best opportunity in a long time to create bonds with mortgage partners. Realtors should seek out these opportunities, not wait for them to drop in your lap. Certainly don't complain if things go wrong when you didn't take the time to interview and carefully select the mortgage professional who you chose to trust with your buyer.

The information a good mortgage professional can apply to a Realtor's business is worth its weight in gold right now. Seriously.

Mortgage brokers can refer Realtor's business, not just the other way around.

Embrace opportunites to know mortgage brokers, and stop running the other way. You need what we have to offer more than in the past.

Are you suggesting that mortgage brokers actually refer realtors? At the risking of offending the other 99% of Realtors that are their clients......? Hmmm......if you were selling who's sign would you put on your lawn? I've heard them say a FSBO because they wouldn't want to upset the realtor cart! lol

Jeff negotiating fees...also meaning incorporating the fees into the loan, or if charging a mortgage broker fee and a YSP, then the client decides he wants to buy down the rate or go FHA or use there VA instead. And then the APR changes and you need to redisclose or have an appraisel addendum that the client wants the Realtor to pay for. I have had things comeback after an inspection that needed to be fixed before FHA or VA approval, but the seller can't afford to fix them.

Dave that was intended to be with a sense of humor....meaning...gee, don't knock yourself out...

Janet continue to be Pollyanna....I love the positive attitude.

Liz I have recommended Realtors all the time, but in the last 2 years, I can only remember a few referralsa from Realtors. It could be that I worked for another company in another town and have only lived here for 2 years and still building a reputation. But also alot of Realty companies have in house lenders that they own and so the Realtors stear them that way.

JUN

2008

Janet - I was just discussing the $98,000 in commissions I referred out in one year, and how critical it is for referral partnerships to be two way streets in order to be successful. Donuts and rate sheets... ugh!

JUN

2008

As a new mortgage broker, I had a fabulous data base of upscale clients/ I had been the finance manager in our auto leasing company, and already had their financial data and their trust. It was easy to "steal" them from their original mortgage broker, because no one paid very much attention to their clients during the "boom".

This resulted in many people who asked me for a referral to a real estate agent. When I attempted to BOND with some agents, they acted as if I had some kind of disease that was catching, and ran the other way. I am dead serious about this. Not one of them gave me the time of day. I don't think I have ever gotten over this.

I looked with envy to the brokers in the office that had established relationships and wondered how in the heck that ever happened. I finally realized it happens when you are chosen by the client first, then the agent notices what a great job you do.

But it doesn't need to be this way!!!! Realtors should always remember that mortgage brokers get clients on their own, that some of the smartest mortgage brokers around don't market to Realtors, and that this new market means that Realtors NEED mortgage brokers more than they did before.

Not just one, several. Running the other way as if the mortgage broker is going to give you some high pressure pitch seems very out of date. Like donuts and rate sheets.

JUN

2008

I agree the best way to market yourself is to close loans period!!!!!! There aren't so many programs out there as before. If you know your products and you deliver in the end (Funding). The agents will be asking for you number... Marketing the agents is not really the best way to create that relationship with your local agents...... Great points......

JUN

2008

I have both my mortgage solicitor's license and real estate sales license in Hawaii. Yet, I can say that I have referred more real estate purchase and refinance transactions out to loan officers and mortgage brokers who are knowledgeable about loan products and go the extra mile to help close a loan...Going the extra mile means quick response time to calls, knowing as soon as possible about particular speed bumps we may see in the transaction due to a client or building profile, as well as referring their client to another lender if their bank cannot underwrite a loan for the particular situation.

I guess since we're sales people we love to be sold. I appreciate loan officers and mortgage brokers who try to establish relationships and ask for the business.

We need to cooperate with each other ... especially in this unique marketplace with loan products vanishing or changing so often!

Ronda, I agree with you Big Time. We all want the best for our clients. Just remember where you were when you first started out or moved to a new company. We all should be looking for new relationships to develop a broader base of influence. Its about helping client get their Dream house not weather we get paid cause when we do a professional job that will happened naturally. I always remember when my wife and I bought our first house in the early 90's we were told we had a 100% loan with no closing cost or down payment. Well the day before closing the non-pro MB called my wife at work, which he never did before, got her all upset telling her we needed $2486 to close tomorrow. The fact that we had it was not the issue it was the point he called her. We did close and I just thought that this was no way to do business. I was going to confront him at closing but do you think he showed??? NO WAY! I considered this the mistake we all here about. When I got into the business and learned how this up charging was common and normal practice. I decided along with my menitor that I and we would never do that. I developed game plans with each and every new client to see what they can afford and most important comfortable paying both monthly and closing cost. We all know sometimes both those numbers can be different. In Todays world we ned to be upfront and open with the client and each other. It makes for a better experience for our clients with will lead to more refferals from them.

JUN

2008

Awesome Post! My spine feels straight and my chin is high... I am proud to be a competent Mortgage Professional. Thank you for that validation! I have jumped through many hoops to earn business from realtors. Now I have more leads to dish out to real estate agents than ever and I am happy to add value to the relationships. In this business there is nothing worse than being a broke loan officer waiting on deals from Realtors... been there and done that.

Janet, I am so sorry I did not see this post earlier. THIS IS AWESOME. I know I stopped marketing to Realtors.. You know the funny part....they are calling me to help them...

Experienced and Knowledgeable Lender / Broker.

Does whatever it take legally to Get the Job Done.....and on Time

Occasionally, had a BUYER qualified and ready to refer.

PRICELESS !!!

Great Job.

JUN

2008

I agree. Good post. We ALL should keep in mind that WE are in this industry TOGETHER and EVERYONE plays a MAJOR role in providing the AMERICAN DREAM of HOME OWNERSHIP. The most important thing to me is getting the job done and keeping the dream alive.

JUN

2008

I agree, great post! I agree that we need to work together to get this done. My referral partners cater to me too. I guess I never really made it a schmooze relationship. Heck, lately, I have been sending them more business than they send me. I take very good care of my clients and theres and they realize that. Anyways, thanks for the post--good to have those words out there!!

JUN

2008

I agree,

I have been attempting to be much more friendly towards people of professions that do not directly give me business. The referrals and wisdom have started.

While I need Mortgage Brokers, I have gone to others in other professions and have learned from them.

JUN

2008

I have 18 years retail banking experience and then 2 years in the Mortgage field. I started as a Director of Marketing for a small Broker and felt in order to understand the full picture, one must lived it.

First I was a processor and I truly understood what it was all about. Then a Loan Officer and by the time I got back to my true title, the company had issues and closed down.

So I went into the Loan Officer position and yes, walk my clients thru the process by holding their hands, assisting them whenever they need me and I just wish Realtors would see my worth.

I bring nothing to them except things that would make their job easier, no food, no wine, just my knowledge and expertise.

Good advice to us Brokers, but no forget the wine.....food i can do without.......great information and i was just kidding on the wine too........your right on....business is business.... I am and a lot of my friends are tired of the games....thanks again..

JUN

2008

My experience finds realtors acting much the same as borrowers -- intially 'interviewing' the mortgage broker to determine if he/she can place faith, hope and trust in that broker, then acting on that decision by moving forward with some commitment.

Most realtors I know tend to comment that their peers are usually looking for new/better mortgage 'guys', but they won't look for themselves...especially if I'm helping them already. And, 'helping' is the operative word here -- loan officers who do not 'help' by putting realtors' requests ahead anything else on their desk are in jeopardy of losing business AND ruining a good relationship with his/her realtors.

Communication is the best form of communication, and those that practice it will always be the most successful.

Janet Your crystal ball has shined on me! I got a call earlier form a Realtor. He wanted to ask me some questions about Section 184 loans. I told him I could meet him for lunch and explain them to him enough that he could understand how they work and promote them.

We met for lunch (I was assuming we would each pay for our own), and after an hour and a half, built a great new relationship. We knew of each other but had never worked on a deal. I gave him some handouts that I had gave him some tips. We excanged cards.

The bill came to us showing each of our portions...then he grabed mine and insisted on paying for it. He said the information I had given him, and especially the tips, was well worth it. He then wanted me to email some information about them with my contact information so that he could print it on the back of his flyers that he puts in the information boxes. He has about a dozen listings on one Reservation and a few more on another. Free exposure, and he didn't even think about asking me to share in the price of printing them, which I don't do anyway.

I figure if a Realtor needs me to help him pay for the cost of flyers, their not selling to many houses anyway.

This website has been very important in my growth as a Mortgage Consultant. I am becoming so educated at the politics of the Mortgage/Realtor relationship.

I am very new as a Mortgage Consultant and I feel extremely naive after reading this post. (Kind of like going to your first day of school and not knowing that leg warmers were not “in” anymore…yikes!) Naive to the fact that one profession was superior to the other. Naive to the fact that one had to bribe the other to do business with them. I had no idea that groveling was in order in a buying transaction. Well, now I know. And here I was about to go introduce myself to some of the local Realtors. That would have been embarrassing.

I was coming in with the attitude that one can't do business without the other, and they both had equal roles in getting the job done for the client.

I was coming in with the attitude that my knowledge and relationship with my Underwriters, as well as my willingness to work hard and get the job done, would be a great asset to any Realtor.

I was under the assumption that networking meant mingling with like-minded and affiliated industries, with the objective of creating a team to help the buyer...this includes Title/Escrow, Insurance, Realtor, Lender and Mortgage Broker. Now I see that I was wrong. Thanks again for the education.

JUN

2008

I can appreciate PINNACLE's sense of humor. It is ironic that, from an LO's point of view, all realtors have qualities not unlike all borowers -- they are unique, every bless-ed one of them; no two are the same.

While files may be similar, ask any underwriter if they ever seen two identical files and you'll have some idea. Both exist as symbiotic relationships for us -- we need the realor as well as the borrower. However, we need the borrower more, people.

I'd love to live in a world where cojoining with realtors wasn't necessary. But (although I may be in a minority), I highly value the duties and responsibilities of the realtor -- he/she works harder than any of us realize, and they earn their keep!

I'd hazard to say that most mortgage brokers earnestly wish that realtors would shop them as hard as lenders do -- and they do so relentlessly, to their credit.

I agree, in my line always want me to cover the expenses, when in reality when i send their customer back to them they normally make a lot more then I do.

JUN

2008

Boy, this is sure a hot topic! If you have your settings set to email you whenever someone comments on your post you are probably feeling pretty popular by now, Janet.

I think you hit the nail on the head! Very well written and to-the-point. There does seem to be a food-chain in our industry and I would say it goes something like (client obviously)-Realtor-Loan Officer-Lender-Title-Insurance. Let's face it, loan officers can relate when account reps for lenders come into their office and ask "so, have any loans for me?" I just had a closing with Wells Fargo and their rate had a higher ysp than another lender, so I went with them on an FHA product and their turn-around times were terrible! No matter where you are on the food chain as well as generally speaking, you want to know that you can trust and rely on the team of people you're working with to get the job done so we are all high-fiving at the end!

Real estate transactions can be very stressful for everyone involved. I like to think that we are all just trying to do the best we can for our clients, our families and ourselves. Those people that don't have anything new to offer will most likely get (weeded) out of the business.

I think it was nice of Lola to suggest areas of improvement for lenders. We all need a reminder of what is old, not working, or turning you off more than on. We all need reminded that personal contact is more effective than sending an email every day.

People like to do business with friends and people whom they trust. That's a great reminder. I appreciate both blog comments! Glad to be a part of this community!

JUL

2008

Janet, as both a mortgage originator and financial planner in my opinion you could not hit the target any closer unless you were standing on top of it. Real Estate agents are just as at fault in this whole mess as the lenders are. For instance, I remember a Real Estate agent I know here in Oregon bragging about how much she liked her clients getting into the option arm mortgages because she could sell them a higher priced home and get a larger commission. If that is not greedy I do not know what is. The problem with the loose underwriting over the past few years has been that it brought out the greed in alot of people. Instead of making a living, agents started looking at making a killing. I think there has never been a better time in this industry for Both Realtors and Mortgage professionals to work as a team. I only wish that Realtors had to spend a month in a mortgage processors office to understand just how crazy getting a loan underwritten can be, then maybe they would have a little more simpathy for what we have to do to get that loan closed so that they can put a sold sign on that property they are selling.

Tom

JUL

2008

Thank you for your BLOG! I have been in the mortgage industry for 8 years, and recently changed companies. I was with my previous company for 7 1/2 years, and that was where I was raised. I came from an environment where we took a lot of pride in taking the loan application. I was taught that taking the loan application is where you gain intimacy with the borrower, and that the borrower is sharing information with you that they do not share with their own family members or close friends. This is where you learn about the borrowers short term and long term goals, and this is where you share your value with them. I was taught to know my guidelines, provide financing to the borrower that is of benefit to them and not my pocket book. I was trained to be honest if there were issues that needed to be over come, not pretend that the do not exist and then hope that they would go away. I was taught to deliver the best service I could possibly deliver and to always look out for the borrower. In the 7 1/2 years that I worked for this company I never really went looking for Realtors nor did I really market myself. I did an excellent job, and I was fortunate to have borrowers pass my name around. No one told me that there is another side of the mortgage industry, and I am now learning it.

I am dumbfounded at how much time is spent on marketing and selling yourself to agents. I ask myself everyday how is it possible to constantly be out selling what I have to offer and still be able to offer the GREAT service that I know that I can offer. I ask myself,"Do agents really want me spending my time this way?". "Don't they want me sitting in my offer taking command of the loans and doing a GREAT job?". I am in shock, and I found real comfort in your BLOG, so once again THANK YOU!

JUL

2008

Huge applause! I want to repeat something from today's speech by the CEO of JP Morgan -- "UNDERWRITERS, UNDERWRITERS." -- in describing the current credit debacle. We loan officers work hard at what we do, and we know that realtors appreciate our efforts. Service is the name of the game, and we do great disservice when we deceive either the borrower or the realtor. I'm proud to see Rachel Lang describing the business I know well, and I wish more originators were cut from the same cloth!

JUL

2008

I was so taken by what you ahve written i forwarded to all of my esteemed brethern with the following note, "This is a great piece of writing. This mortgage professional is obviously very good and is a great writer. If you can take the time to read her post and all of the following comments on it. Enlightening and uplifiting. Great perspective."

what else can I say but thanks for your talent, insight and great post.

Janet, Great post and I am glad you are coming to the aid of us Lowly mortgage brokers :( Coffed and Donuts? I don't think so. I want to provide a realtor who, I may want to work with a few things. First information that is both informative to the agent as well as their clients... I want to find the best loan for thier clients situation. And contrary to MOST Real Estate Agents.. We also want the loan to fund as soon as possible.. Believe it or not The Real Estate agent is not the only one that gets paid after closing. I want to work with real estate agents who understand that ( I ) am not the one that is most likely delaying the loan, but it is the UNDERWRITER in MOST cases. Do not kill the messenger. I would love to get more referrals from Real Estate Agents.. And my focus will be you and your clients.. if I take care of those two things, my commissions will take care of itself.

Tom

Hello, I'm new here but this topic is right on I can' begin to tell you what I have done for realtors in hopes of getting their business so far this is the and no lie: 1 Remax Realtor received 6 approved clients from in 2007 no referrals back I'm not even a trusted advisor to her. To A Llewellyn Realtor 4 approved buyers no referrals. The list goes on I 'm so frustrated I just tell the clients to write with the listing agent or I get a office supply contract and help the client write it. Any realtors out there wanting keep their pipeline full.

JUL

2008

Janet, You are right on the money! I have never really tried to bribe Realtors® but I used to lose a lot of loans to people who did not really know what they were doing because they may have slightly better social skills than I do... But now-a-days just about every real estate firm in the region that I live in is sending me business. Lake City Mortgage and I have always had a good reputation in the aera buit now people are flocking to us and I always hear "I heard that you are the person to come see"... The sub-prime madness attracted a lot of A type personalities who put themselves first, their commission checks second, and their clients last. That approach no longer works and if you are going to be in this business you had better know what the hell you are doing. Thank you for the post Janet and for bringing this important topic up.

JUL

2008

I am a Mortgage Broker that has been doing this for 20 years, I also used to manage Underwriters and Underwrote myself so I know what can and cannot be done as well as figuring Scorp taxes, etc (the hard stuff) anyway I have always had trouble going out there and selling myself to Realtors for the simple fact I am working on deals. I am not one of those Pick Me people but like to show how fast and how easy I can get a deal done, this posts gives me hope maybe Realtors will start trying to pursue a technical partner to ensure their flow of biz gets done...Thanks for the Post

JUL

2008

This is pretty good...and accurate. AND there are ways the LO can make the realtors come to them. Back when I was originating (I focus on marketing for LO's and agents now), I was able to get the realtors to seek me out as an expert.

Testimonials are one of the easiest, and autopilot marketing so that when it's the right time, you're in front of the agent. i.e. anyone good has an LO already, but things change sometimes - so right place right time is greatly enhanced by autopilot marketing. i.e. send out cards, or aweber sequential autoresponders, our kits, etc.

also, our kits like www.FSBOSupplies.com create leads for both LOs and Realtors at the same time..makes opening the door very easy.

JUL

2008

Well I love all the things people have to say and I am still learning alot about how this game works. I have been trying to get on board with realtors and have hit nothing but dead ends. I wont give up, I will continue to try and make contacts. I have reached out to a few here on AR with no success. Maybe I need to find and figure out a different approach. My ears are open to all who have advice

JUL

2008

THANK YOU! I hope you also agree that Countrywide was not the "big bad lender", but just the biggest on the block. What I've had to say suddenly matters to the Realtor, and you have NO idea how great it feels!

Great Post . In the past I have worked with co-workers that suggested that I go in to realtors offices with coffee and donuts along with business cards but i always asked myself why the hell i have to give a whole damn office free breakfast . I believe in networking in the field weather its at an open house or joining your local real estate clubs . Exchanging phone numbers and email address are important ,because you want to make your presents known through email new letters or just simple conversation can open many windows of oppotunity. I live in upstate new york you will be surprise who you're meet at the saratoga race track on opening day. : )

JUL

2008

Janet your blog post was well written and I agree that we as real estate industry professionals need to work together towards a common goal and that's assisting our clients with buying a home through all facets of the transaction.

The one thing I don't agree with is who most of the buyers are flocking to first. Over 80% of home buyers begin their home buying process on the Internet by browsing for homes to get an idea of home values in the areas they are interested. There first contact is usually with a real estate agent through the agent's website. I don't know many loan officers that generate many buyer leads through their websites but I sure do know many real estate agents that generate numerous buyers through their websites. I being one of them with over 500 buyer leads a month through my Las Vegas Real Estate website.

Because of my web presence in Las Vegas I do receive many phone calls and emails from Loan Officers wanting to do business with my team. I here the same rhetoric from each of them how they can close a deal quickly and they offer the best customer service. What I was looking for in a Loan Officer, probably like most real estate agents, was a loan officer that was willing to work with me to help grow my business as a team and not just a give and take relationship.

I wanted a loan officer who was willing to put some effort in helping me market my business. As real estate agents we are not experts when it comes to loan programs, rates, ltv, etc... but our clients still needed to be educated on these subjects. I had the loan officers I developed a relationship with blog on my website blog to educate our clients and future clients. This was a win win situation for us as a team. Our clients were being educated about the loan process and logically our clients worked with our recommended Loan Officers (always recommended at least 4), so they got the loan and we represented the buyer.

This is how I see loan officers and real estate agents can work together and have a mutual business relationship.

Aaron - Perfect.

"Forget the donuts, coffee and generic email flyers. Its very simple. Ask the lender for the names of two other real estate agents you can call on to see if he has performed for them lately. His record in the last three - four months is what you want to know. It was easy before that."

Tony - I have to agree with you, most of my leads still come from my real estate agent partners. However, they also understand that I give my clients to the best agents instead of treating them like trading cards. So basically, everyone treats the relationship like an ongoing job interview.

Janet- Congrats on a killer post and the great feedback. It is about marketing our value to the agents we want to work with. FSBO systems, technology, guest blogging, work shops, marketing agent listings.... the list goes on. In a 30 Yr. Fixed, one loan program world, the few originators who prove that they are more than a "Commodity" will be around to blog about it on AR in a year.

Well said Janet.

I know many real estate agents seeking new brokers because their current ones don't cut the mustard.

Ron

AUG

2008

During my three years in the Mortgage business I was amazed at the small number of Real Estate Agents that pursued me for business. I was amazed because I was generating a qualified, ready to buy borrower that had no Agent. We had a network that we referred them to but it didn't come close to providing the coverage it needed to, especially in smaller towns.

Real Estate Agents need to become better at identifying Mortgage Lenders that are generating leads and develop referral relationships with them.

If you look at the links on my page you will see several Agents, all of which I would gladly refer business to given the opportunity.

AUG

2008

Janet - Excellent post! As a mortgage broker who has relied heavily on realtor referrals I have always viewed the purchase transaction as a total team effort, including the efforts of the title and insurance agent in the transaction. While the Realtor may be steering the boat, I think the true professional knows an experienced crew will assure a safe landing.

I think that a benefit that this difficult market has produced is a real appreciation by the "survivors" for each other's skill sets and how each of our roles are integral to assure a succesful closing!

AUG

2008

I am new to the active rain comminity and I am shocked by some of these posts. They are for the most part very true. I have recently been trying to network with realators and I tell them all the facts about my company and what I can do but most won't even lisen. I know I am good at what I do cause I make alot of money and I love this job. I am not sure what you realators want to hear, to give us mortgage companies a chance but things like my company is a vip and we have 3 day underwriting and 24hr turn around for closing! This is the kind of thing you need for a loan that needs to be done qiuckly! I also am a firm beleaver in my customers always come first!! I give each and every one of them my cell phone and house phone #'s and update them anytime anything happens with thier loan! I have even told people to give me thier dead deals and I will find a way to close them. This way they have nothing to lose by giving me a lead thier current lender couldn't close and I would have the chance to PROVE I can do what I say! I figure that would interest me in a way if someone said that to me! I am not going to give up!! I never have and I'm certainly not about to start now. For you stubborn realators if you don't want to take the chance to bring in more leads and more $$$$ then you don't know what you are missing!! And someone on this page mentioned about people getting the financing first and this is true I have many clients that want to get a laon but have not found the property they wish to buy yet, So I help them look and personaly take them to look at houses and we look online! If I had more realators to show me properties for sale to show my clients we could all work well togeather and accomplish the same goals. To get these people in a new home as quickly and smoothly as possiable.

AUG

2008

April -- I love your use of the word 'shocked'. Life is tough in the trenches, right now. When business was flush, your favorite realtors would call and ask if you had time to help. Now, they won't return your calls.

Unfortunately, I believe it's only a reflection of the level of business available, spreading the wealth to the few. We are all working harder for less, right now. Personally, I've had to concentrate strictly on refinancing homeowners' contracts, much as so many lenders have moved to FHA exclusively in order to stay alive in the current environment.

Good luck at all! We can work together -- Think of this as a tug-of-war, though! Keep trying to make alliances! And, don't let the naysayers ruin your day -- just keep pluggin away, my friends.

AUG

2008

WOW!!! What a blog. I got dizzy after a while trying to keep up with who said what to who. First and foremost, I disagree with you, Janet, about your comment that "lenders are lower on the food chain then realtors". Personally, my skills, abilities, experience, knowledge, reputation and the services I provide my clients are just as valuable to my clients as the services that their realtor provides them. My comment now is to those newbies who are looking to establish some business. Although there may be a lot of lenders out there who did start their careers by marketing to realtors, it certainly wasn't what got my business started.

In Jan 2002, I started marketing to realtors. Why? Because it's what my broker told me to do. For a year and a half, I spent my time, energy and money marketing to the local (Ventura County, CA) realtors (btw: I never brought them food). Although I did meet a few really nice realtors who kindly and graciously told me that they have a long standing relationship with another lender and they have no intention of changing that but thanked me very much for my time and efforts and even gave me a few tips and suggestions on how I could better establish myself in the community. Some of them even gave me referrals of realtors they knew who did not have an established relationship with a lender. I even met one or two who allowed me to do their open houses for them and allowed me to work with them in marketing their listing. To all those kind, gracious and truly professional souls, I am forever grateful. It's because of them that I was able to maintain some respect and confidence for their profession. However, having said that, many of the realtors I met were the rudest, most obnoxious and arrogant people I had ever come into contact with. After meeting some of them, I often wondering how they managed to stay in business with that attitude and disposition.

I no longer market to realtors. I learned a long time ago, that my time, energy and marketing dollars were better spent marketing to prospective buyers. I also market to the people who already know, trust and respect me, friends, family, neighbors, professional associates (not lenders & realtors). I also became very involved in my community. Volunteer for a charitable event, join a BNI group (or other referral network), join your local chamber, once again, don't bother marketing to the realtors but rather market to your local business. Establish a database of referral sources and communicate with them on a regular basis. If you happen to meet a few really nice and professional realtors along the way, include them in your database. Share your success stories with your database, share market info and news too. Before you know it, you will be the person they come to for information.

Even though I no longer market to realtors, I do work with a handful of realtors in the area. These are realtors who over the years have come to know, trust and respect me for my skills, abilities, knowledge, experience and reputation as well as the services that I provide for my clients. They call me and refer their clients to me because they know that I will take good care of them and that I will get the job done with no bull@#$%. Once you get a referral from a realtor, do your job and do it well. At that point, you will have established a relationship not only with the realtor but with the client as well; you add them both into your database and they become a part of that group that you communicate with on a regular basis. Even if you never get another referral from that realtor, you are likely to get referrals from the client. Life is short and this business is too tough and challenging to waste your time, energy and money on people who don't have the common decency to show you some professional courtesy and respect. If you're working hard and smart and devoting 150% to your business and your clients, then you deserve at least that.

AUG

2008

Donne: Thank you for your long and thoughtful reply. I continue to be amazed that this single post struck such a raw nerve for so many people. It all goes to show that the Realtor/Lender relationship is very delicate.

I think the thing that disturbs ME the most is that these relatioships can so swiftly be ended by the Realtor for things that happen that are completely and utterly out of control by the mortgage broker.

I have had Realtors who created the problems themselves that led to delays, then blamed me for the whole thing. I have had clients thrilled with the job I did, send me referrals like mad, but the Realtor hold a grduge for some little something that went askew during the loan process, and never send a loan my way.

It is very difficult to have the "perfect" smooth transaction we had a few years ago (you know....close the 100% $850k loan, stated income, in 2 weeks....) It is not easy to keep nervous underwriters and nervous clients from making things crazy. I don't expect sympathy...this is my job. But a little understanding would go a long way.

SEP

2008

OMG - this is Gold. Home Run. Would you mind opening this up to re-blog? I would also like to post it on my outside blog. Is taht cool?

Chris the implementer

www.mortgagechiliblog.com

SEP

2008

Christina there is new news about WAMU and their CEOs...with more dirt to come out soon. But all this dirt about the banking and mortgage industry is going to make us alot better at making sure the consumer understands what they are signing. I came into the office this Saturday to re read all the disclosure forms and title and escrow papers so that I remember to highlight all the important parts. And also to refresh my memory to better help and answer consumer questions.

OCT

2008

Janet ~ I do not know how I missed this...it is wonderful and I enjoyed reading it. You are right that at this point in time, they need us. Now even more than when you wrote this post. :) Thanks!

Sarah: There is a very interesting post written yesterday by a friend of mine who became a Realtor after 22 years in the finance world. It gives a perspective that you just don't find anywhere on how Realtors feel about mortgage brokers and why.

Go check it out: It was written by Wendy Cutrifelli.

DEC

This was good, I tell you realitors,mortgage/loan officers, and me are all feed leads to be able to do our job. I learned this a long time ago networking,results and referal by clients,mo's,lo's and realitors is where it is at. Good artical Thanks

www.youtube.com/user/codythecreditcowboy www.CodyTheCreditCowboy.com

DEC

Great post! I have been away from Active Rain for a while. I enjoyed your viewpoint about working together, agree with the fact that results these days comes with understanding guidelines. All the best in 2009. Happy Holidays.

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