Real Estate Blog - COPYRIGHT WARNING: DON'T LET A $1,000 DAMAGE DEMAND TURN INTO A $15,000 SETTLEMENT!

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COPYRIGHT WARNING: DON'T LET A $1,000 DAMAGE DEMAND TURN INTO A $15,000 SETTLEMENT!

GUIDE FOR REAL ESTATE AGENTS AND BROKERS WITH WEB SITES.

RULE #1. Don't use Lenn's maps on your web page.

RULE #2. When you are contacted by the map owner, don't ignore them.

RULE #3. When you are noticed of a settlement offer of $1,000, take it.

RULE #4. When you receive mail from Lenn's attorney at your broker's office, don't ignore it.

RULE #5. When you try to avoid service of process, you will not succeed.

RULE #6. When you have an attorney make an offer, make it attractive, not just Lenn's legal fees.

RULE #7. When served with a COMPLAINT FOR DAMAGES, answer it.

RULE #8. When you appear in court for the Default Judgment, offer more than Lenn's legal fees.

RULE #9. If you ignore all of the above and finally appear at the hearing, that $1,000 offer of settlement is now $15,000, payable in 3 months, and the judge accepted and entered the Agreement.

BETTER YET, don't take Lenn's maps!

Courtesy, Lenn Harley, Broker, Homefinders.com and owner of many copyright protected images.

Posted by Lenn Harley, Real Estate Broker, Maryland & Virginia on 06/04/2008 12:00 PM

Comments (101)

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101 Comments on COPYRIGHT WARNING: DON'T LET A $1,000 DAMAGE DEMAND TURN INTO A $15,000 SETTLEMENT!

JUN

2008

Ouch, it sounds like Lenn's really protects their map property.

Take care!

RJH

When will folks learn? Rather, at what price!

Indeed I do. Everyone should. You have to. I am not going to sit by while my competitors use my property to compete with me.

Good for you Lenn..you should protect your property ;--)

Gary. You'd think, as hard as it is to earn commissions these days, that folks would not want to take risks like this. But, they do.

Folks have to learn that, if they can find my maps on Google, I can find my maps on Google.

Kristi. Thanks, I do.

Good for you Lenn, sounds like they were asking for it.

Lenn, I don't understand the mentality of someone who would ignore the warnings of a copyright owner.

Joshua and Kathy. The only thing worse than taking my property is ignoring me when they get caught.

Brian. I don't understand the opportunistic actions of real estate agents who tout their COE.

Lenn....forgive me for asking as I am not that familiar with your maps, why do individuals want your maps? i am guessing they are custom. please share and did you create them, buy them or ?

Lenn - as you already know well, some folks just need to learn the hard (and expensive) way. Offering to settle out of court is always less expensive adn a better use of time. Good luck getting this reolved.

Jeff

I'm really glad, when faced with a copyright issue, that we were able to negotiate payment, and tender it IMMEDIATELY- that someone would procrastinate rectifying this clear violation is appalling (and says much about the individual).

The "I didn't know" has come and gone- it's common knowledge now (or, you'd hope).

Pam.

See: http://www.homefinders.com/maps/frederick-map-large.gif

Jeff. Thanks. I offered him a quick release for $1,000 when I saw my map on his web page. He just ignored me. Now he has 3 months to pay $15,000 or a default judgment for over $50,000 will be entered.

Laurie. You did the smart thing. Indeed, you'd think they'd know. But, even when they know, they just don't believe that they'll be caught.

I believe that brokers should be warning their agents about these matters.

Lenn.....great map. Is this map something you personally designed?

Use your own content or use nothing at all; there is way too much to blog about to use the content of others -- unless you are sourcing.

This is a biblical principal too.

Pam. ("chuckle, chuckle") My zeal in protecting my trade secrets is as aggressive as my zeal in pursuing copyright violators.

#10: DO NOT TAKE LENN'S MAPS! LOL ...go get 'em Lenn.

Lenn.....guess I really don't understand. I googled the title of the map and it came up. Is this a google map or one you created? Praytell, I am not looking for your trade secrets just an understanding.

The map is MINE, MINE, MINE. Copyright protected and registered for statutory damages.

Of course they come up in Google. That doesn't make them any less mine or make them public domain, or make them free to use.

I am impressed. It takes a distinct talent to be a map maker and I guess you are a woman of many talents. Congratulations!

Lenn, one of the first things that many new members of Active Rain learns is Rule #1. Ignorance of the rule is no excuse. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Stephen. Thanks. Indeed. There is so much to write about. Blogging doesn't require images or enhancements. Words are powerful.

Kat. Done!! Many times over.

Pam. Thanks.

Brian. That's funny. You'd think that the word would have gotten around by now. I tried to get one of our huge, huge mega brokers to pass the word in their brokerage. Got nowhere. So, I keep collecting damages from their agents.

Fine with me.

Same goes with swiping photos from Google Images. Just because they are there doesn't mean you can skate by copyright laws.

Shannon. Absolutely. I know several folks who have paid for snagging photos off the net.

If you didn't create it, write it, or shoot it, don't use it.

Lenn - let that be a lesson to all, especially in our AR community. If the agent or brokerage knows you, they should also know that you don't play any games especially after you make contact.

Lenn - I needed your legal insight when I had someone steal staging photos from me! You go girl!

Lenn-as always your warnings should be read by all. As much as I have map envy I know you would take me out in a heartbeat and have every right to do it. I'm still amazed at the number of photos I see in blogs on AR that still have the copyright symbol emblazed on them.

What part of "if it's not yours don't take it" do they not understand.

Lenn, I almost fell out of my chair laughing. One thing I have learned on AR is "Don't mess with Lenn." I use to go out to websites and download free photos. I don't even do that any more since BBs post. Take Care. AJ

Lenn,

Staunch warning to those who are too lazy to go out and develop their own marketing materials...good for you for taking aggressive action against these individuals, Lenn. They should have known better....

I was trying to figure out who lenn was reading this. Duh it is you . I guess you weren't flattered by the imitation stuff

Lenn, great post! I wish we had maps like these here in Humboldt County. It is nice and clear. I also love your website. How in the world do you keep up with all of that information?

I guess business is slow enough to worry about such matters these days, time effort involved in legal process equals 10 listings I wouldnt get and commission I wouldnt earn plus stress I dont need.

I would rather go after the offending Agent using the Real Estate Board's lawyers by making an ethics complaint and having a license at stake instead of a paltry $15000. Not to mention they get called out to their peers in our monthly report of Discipline Proceedings and yes it is unethical to misrepresent materials that belong to another Realtor as your own.

PS Nice Maps

Can we license your maps?

Good for you! Note to self: don't ever, ever mess with Lenn. ;-)

Cartographer Lenn, If there is one thing I have learned in the year + I have been on AR, it's don't mess around with Lenn! :) Hmmm, isn't there a song...

They truely are very nice maps.

You seem proud and vindicated. I'm not sure why someone or anyone would steal a map. The person who did this sounds uneducated and lazy. I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't come up with the money.

DON'T MESS WITH LENN!! Lesson Learned!.. Good for you. I have been lucky so far I have not caught anyone using my stuff.

Sounds like the best option here is to always follow rule #1

Good for you Lenn- you created it, you own it and it is yours...next!

And what is it about the word NO that they don't understand!

Hi Lenn, This may be my favorite post of all time ! Keep us posted !

Lenn, perhaps a copy of this post sent along to the next offender (along with your demand letter) would make someone think twice about ignoring the demand for quick settlement. I know it would have me shaking in my shoes!

Good for you Lenn. Bravo.

The maps are unique and I've often wondered where on earth you came up with artistic maps like they are. Now I guess we'll never know. : )

So, just to make things clear... DON"T USE YOUR COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL. OK, I think I got it. That was clear enough. Have a great day.

Lenn, I love your maps, but I like my money better ............. LOL

So I will not be copying any of your maps :) :)

Hi Lenn - {Bob Here} Go get em. I am having this problem but with pics taken off of the web from sites like Picassa or Flickr or even Localism possibly and maybe even my own website. I have many pics on the web and put a BH at the bottom corners of each pic yet they still show up on other agents websites obviously shopped out. Agents from within my own office are doing this as well and I'm getting a little tired of it. I admire your zeal in going after these guys or gals and wondered if you could give me a few pointers on getting these "agents" to stop stealing my photos? I kinda got to pic my battles a little as I am in deals with some of them at the moment. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Bob H.

Lenn - those maps are just to darn pretty and unique to steal. Maybe you should think of licensing them out (and I apologize if someone else suggested it in the 48 previous comments!).

Lenn, I'm scared of you!!! You mean business & that's how it should be.

All the best,

Go Lenn Go,

You are going to be able to stop selling real estate pretty soon and just make a living going after copyright violators,

That will teach them to use their own creativity next time rather than "borrowing" yours!

Copyright infringement is serious stuff. Good reminder Lenn. Many people are so cavalier about it. You pointed out how financial damages can escalate for the naive.

Now why would I want your maps? I have GPS if I need to find you:) Lenn I need to make a business out of this so I'm still waiting for you to teach me the map program.

Lenn,

I think it is great that you are portecting yourself, but my clients need better maps than those. With all the alternatives, satellite imagry, google maps street views and maping provided by idx services, I can't see how those are a help for today's property researchers. They sure are pretty....useful?

Petra. I surely don't play games with copyright violators. Thanks for dropping by.

Julianna. Talk to a professional photographer. They have copyright for photos down pat.

Cindy. You're too smart to mess with my maps. Actually, it's the folks who are not on Active
Rain that usually get caught, although as of today, I've found three of my images on ActiveRain
sites. One was one of my images of folks in front of a house and the other two were maps.
I sent mail and the maps were taken down immediately. The images took 4 days and I
was just about ready to.. . . . . .

Sally. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Alan. Not a smart thing to do. There are photo sites that have attorneys on retainer just
sending out demand letters.

Jo-Anne. I do it for me and all folks who use graphics in their web sites.

Charlie. That is so funny. I am absolutely NOT flattered by someone taking my property
to compete with me.

John. I'm a hard worker, but it beats working for a living.

Scott. You are quite mistaken. I haven't spent more than 15 minutes on these matters for
each of the 10-11 that I've collected on. I have my C&D and Demand down to a fine art.
I have no stress. The folks who steal my maps have the stress when they get my first
contact. If they don't pay me quickly, my attorney takes over and he is very good.

The time needed and the angst of going through an ethics complaint and having them get
a slap on the wrist. If I ever failed to collect on one, which so far I have not, the highest
award was $41,000 which the agent paid over the period of about a year, I still have the
option of filing a complaint.

Shucks. I bat out an e-mail and short letter, fax it to their office and if they don't respond,
'which they do not, my attorney takes over.

However, with the knowledge that my attorney and I have
of copyright, I believe we are getting more bank for our buck by hitting them in the
pocketbook. I trust the copyright law and the District Court judges more than I do
agents in a Grievance Committee. I've served on those committees and even if I won,
it would be a phyrric victory.

I've certainly not ever lost a sale by prosecuting copyright violators.

Frank. No thanks.

Susan. Thanks. Not ever, ever.

Doreen. Thanks. I appreciate all of the kind thoughts of my fellow real estate folks and ActiveRain friends.

Greg. They always come up with the money. Always. The alternative of paying me is not very attractive.
The agent in court this week is concerned about a judgment on his credit report. He'll pay.

Matthew. Hopefully, you never will. If you ever discover any of your property on someone else's web site,
you'll probably feel sick at the stomach. Then you'll be angry. Then you get busy making them pay.

Jim. Indeed. Indeed.

Allison. Right you are. I'm not finding my maps as often as in the past. Folks are risking using

Mapquest or Google or such interactive or static maps, most of which are illegal. But, I don't care.
Let them. One of these days, Google or someone will file a giant action and they'll all be named.
Few agents who use Google maps have the Google API license. Some do.

Diane. I've been trying to figure that out for about 4 years now.

Bill. Glad to give you some fun. I'll let everyone know when the debt is paid.

Annon. They get a copy of a Complaint for Damages if it goes to my attorney. They don't take
me seriously. Bad decision.

Barbara. Just enjoy.

Patrick. Thanks for making that clear.

George. I'm often shocked at some of the folks who have taken my maps and
paid dearly for the pleasure.

Bob H. It defies logic. Most of my maps have a little lennharley.com in the lower
right hand corner. No matter. They take them anyway.

All they have to do is Google my name and they should know better.

Ken. No one would pay me what they are worth to me.

Yvette. Nothing to be scrared of. I'm the nicest person on the face of the earth. Honest.

Brian. I've collected over $200,000 so far. Surely worth the effort.

Gary. That is correct. Not only that, if Congress has it's way, the statutory damage
limits are going way up.

Neal. Trade Secret. Trade Secret.

Ted, Ted, Ted. They are on my web sites for "color" and style.

The provide the buyer, especially out of town buyers with an overview of the area. Think about it. If the folks don't know the area, how do hey know what to pull up in Google maps.

My maps are not intended for property searches. They are simply to help folks get a perspective of the area. I've often met with buyers from out of town and they have my map of the county or counties in their folder.

I don't pretend they answer all the question, but they are a good start.

You almost need to send out a mass email to the agents in your area saying MINE, MINE, MINE. Then send them a copy of the settlement...

The good part, is that you make some money on other people's stupidity and your attorney loves you.

Lenn- When ever I hear a discussion about copyright infringement, I think of you. I can't believe people are still stealing your maps. While most of these offenders wouldn't think of rifling thru your desk and taking your graphics to print on their own materials, they think because they lifted it, online, it's perfectly alright.

Lenn, Good rules and a good lesson to learn. Thank you for sharing your expertise. Great Map!

Melina. No way. The copyright laws are there for everyone to read. Most folks know this by the time they're through 7th grade.

Marilyn. They may think that. I don't believe so. I believe that they know that it's wrong and just figure they won't get caught.

Leslie. My pleasure. Folks who read ActiveRain know better, at least most do.

You did it again. Some people haven't learned yet in your area. I think you are making more on renting maps

Why oh why oh why - You Lenn when I goole "Lenn's Maps" Google says "I'm not going near those!" LOL

(Although when I do google "Lenn's maps" YOU are in 4 of the top 5 spots! Even better!

Go get 'em Lenn.

Wow! I'm almost afraid to post ANY photos or graphics. I assume I'm ok when I go to Microsoft's web site and downloand their clip art?

That was partially tongue in cheek - you said it clearly - if I didn't take the photo then don't post it.

Pretty simple.

Thanks

The fun part is that if you slack off on nailing people, you effectively release your ability to pursue others. So, you NEED to protect your copyright.

Sounds like the first several steps would have kept a foolish mistake from resulting into a stubborn significant loss.

Lenn-- I wondered why you never responded to me when I was in awe of your beautiful graphics on your site. You still never answered, however still would like to know who did your artwork. Take it as a compliment, nice maps. Of course anyone that would take them would make a mistake crossing that line...and if I saw them on another site, it would be way obvious. Nice maps...when and if you ever share, would love to know.

You big Meany! Keep it up sometimes it is the only way people get it is when it impacts the wallet. Good Job.

Whenever I see a lazy or just plain stupid agent using someone else's work, it makes me wonder where else they are cutting corners and how that negatively affects their clients. We should not tolerate this kind of unethical behavior in our industry. I'm glad to see that you're able to hold the map thieves accountable and that the courts agree with you.

EEEWWWWWW.....I can honestly say...I don't want anyone's map or picture or graphic or funniest home video or dirty laundry. Hum, that's really what it could be considered. Soiled laundry...oh, Lenn you know what I mean. Later in the rain~Deb

Great job Lenn!

The maps are nice too!

But great job with the legal action!

JUN

2008

Good For You. I guess this guy learned that stealing comes with a price.

Atta girl. Go for them. Agree with you 10000%. People need to keep their sticky fingers off things that are not theirs. All the best.

Russ. A few have learned and paid dearly for the opportunity.

James. Will do. Will do.

Mike. Folks have to be very careful with what they add to web sites. Most of the "free" sites do not give blanket access to post on commercial sites.

Lane. You're right. Once I let them stay on folks sites, they almost become public domain. Unless I have a license agreement or something and
I'd have to post that and it isn't about real estate.

Audrey. They just ignore me.

Candace. My web site content and any inclusions are carefully designed to promote certain themes and I consider them trade secrets.

Terry. Agreed. It hits them hardest who ignore the early warnings.

John. You hit on a very important point. Folks who do unethical things should be held accountable. In our permissive society, sometimes
this may be the first time they are.

Deb. When folks see my simple little maps, it makes them smile. Smiling is a good thing.

Jon. Thanks. It's important. Otherwise, folks will never learn. Once the folks ignore me and I file
a Complaint in District Court, it's a matter of public record.

Gary. Indeed. A very high price.

Bob & Carolin. That's what I've been trying to tell them.

Lenn,

People do not realize that just because they can grab the image they should. The web did not come with instruction manuals and well who reads em anyways!!!!!!!!!

Great post!

Kristin. The web didn't come with instructions, but we learned about copyright in Junior High School.

I believe that they just don't believe that they'll be caught.

Wow, you mentioned you've collected over $200,000 in fees because others have used your maps! Others have suggested that you send an email out to warn other agents, I say make them pay if they are intent on stealing your creations (which I've already told you before are awesome). The Google maps discussion was enlightening as well. I've never posted a Google map, but they allow you to "create your own" maps which is confusing to me in that they aren't "yours." The problem when agents bury their head in the sand is that they leave their rear ends exposed to a good kicking;-)

I always love your reminders Lenn :)

I have so many pictures on my laptop hard drive that I need to transfer to CD rather than just deleting.

It is frustrating when someone doesn't understand that your work is yours and just because it is on the internet means you can "borrow". This mindset boggles me.

Matt. I have no interest or time to try to "protect folks against themselves".

Watch out for Google maps. There are Google Maps and there are Google Maps.

Renee. Boggles my mind too. I just believe that they don't believe they'll be caught.

Lenn~ It looks like the copyright "Queen" has spoken - and she means business!

Firesale on Lenn's maps!!! (better get em out of my possession while I still can) ;-)

Lenn - I can understand someone using your maps given that there's so much on the internet, but I can't understand them not responding when you made contact. Maybe you can attach this blog to all your maps as a warning. Or better yet, sit back and make a $1000 (or more) periodically!!

Excellent Post! I get myself crazy when folks steal my text.

Lenn, Your maps are fabulous. I don't know what it is about maps that causes people to ignore copyright law. I guess maps are costly and/or time consuming to create, so it's easier to steal. Sounds to me like you could earn a pretty good living just by tracking down and suing folks who steal your maps. How do you find them? Do others tell you about them or do you search on keywords that lead you to them?

JUN

2008

Lenn,

Pretty simple. Your work effort and your work product. Not someone elses. Glad to see you are kicking their butts.

List and Sell (and do your own work) Gary @ RentonHomeFinder

Gary. Indeed. Most of us are considerate enough of our fellow real estate folks to do our own work and not try to benefit off the backs of others.

Gail. Thanks. I usually just run into them. I spend a lot of time reviewing competitors' web sites and from time to time, there is one of my maps. I also get mail from real estate friends who have seen a map and recognize it as mine. I can search for them, but I don't really have time.

Jim. I haven't run into that. My text isn't that good. Of course, I could be wrong. There could be a lot of it out there, I've just never run into any. Images are easy to identify.

Tchaka. How we proceed is pretty much up to the violator. They just don't take me seriously. Big mistake.

Vickie. Thanks. I do mean business.

Fair Warning post to the masses to not copy maps, photos, or articles. Be smart, write and create your own work or pay! It is post like this that should give someone $17000 reasons why not to paste and cut.

Mary. I've been trying to get this message out for 4 years. On ActiveRain for 32 months. My first post on ActiveRain was about Copyright.

Of course, not everyone is a member. Not all members read my blog. Not all members read anything.

Why don't you publish a collection of your AR postings and copies of your judgments in your association magazines. It would get the word out, and make for an easy article for them, you did all of the work.

Good for you! I hope you end up with a positive result. Nice map!

JUN

2008

You do very well, Lenn.........$15,000 is a nice "commission check".......

It is so sad that when these people get served a warning e-mail...and they laugh it off.......

$50,000 is an even NICER "commission check"......

So, so sad.....

I've always been so impressed by your maps. They are clear, colorful and concise. I've been working on making a couple of my own but have used yours until I can figure out how to make them myself. Of course being in California people tell me the maps don't make much sense but they do look real nice. If I send you a grand can I keep using them? (Just kidding, Lenn. But your maps are great.)

Gene.

I'm laughing out loud. I can picture folks with a map of Reston VA trying to find Murietta.

Funny thing and one of the reason I believe that the GPSs are so popular. There is a huge segment of the population who cannot read a map.

I had an agent for years who would call me for direction regularly. I finally figured out that she couldn't read a map. Her last car has a GPS system and she stopped calling.

Jim. Not worth the work. I don't have the time to save folks from themselves.
I tried to get the General Counsel's office of one of our megas to alert their
agents of which there are many thousands, but they don't want to bother.
I've had more map thieves from that company than any others.

So, I'll just make their agents pay when they steal my maps.

Georgina. I will. Thanks.

Alexander. I believe that a $15,000 settlement for the use of one map is a
very decent fee. A few seem to disagree. Thanks.

JUN

2008

Boy, I do need to contact you...I didn't realize how much was a stake when you fight people from using your stuff. I was thinking you could only get about $250 and get them to remove the stuff. Never would have thought $1500!

Todd. This is all in a day's work. I protect my property and pursue those who would steal from me.

BTW, it isn't $1,500. It's $15,000. The highest award I've received was $41,000, which the agent paid over time, but paid in full.

Most settlement are in the range of $5,000 to $12,000.

The mimumum statutory damage award is $750. Statutory awards are for content that has been registered with the Copyright office.

Lenn,

After ignoring your 1st warning letter to them, I think
they deserve an escalation of the damage fees, lady...

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do, Lenn....

Stay the course...

=-)

Alexander.

Actually, they got two warning letters. The first from me. The second from my attorney. With no response, we just file.

He ran up the tab by trying to avoid service of process.

The poor sap......

First, let me say that I commend your passion for protecting what's yours.

However, most of these situations are handled by simply placing a phone call (or sending a letter) to the offending website's ISP and having them suspend the account until the infringement is removed or otherwise resolved. Without an operating website, there can be no infringement. In a court of law, you'd also have to prove how and for what amount you were damaged in order to procure a judgment (i.e. lost business resulting from the infringement, etc.) I'd be interested to know how the judge in your case determined the award? Or even how your attorney came up with the "$1,000 to avoid court" bribe. He/she would have known how difficult it would be to prove damages in this case. Did you lose a listing or sale as a direct result of the infringement? Would it be possible to have a buyer or seller attest to that fact? In my experience, it's very difficult (at best) to prove damages under those circumstances.

Secondly, if there is no conspicuous copyright notice on the work itself, a defendant could argue they were unaware of the infringement, or that their web designer provided assurances to them that the site did not impose infringements on any outstanding copyrights. But that would have only been a valid defense if the offender responded.

It goes without saying that one of the chief attractions of the World Wide Web is the ability to use graphics to convey information to its users. A sophisticated and subtle graphical presentation is the hallmark of some of the Web's most popular sites. There are certain "rules of thumb", however, which are meant to guide web designers when selecting images for incorporation into a page.

1.) Creating original images from drawing and painting programs. The best way to obtain images is to create them in a drawing or other image creation program. In doing so, it is best to start from scratch rather than from someone else's creation. Even if an image is significantly altered, the new image may infringe upon the copyright in the first image by being a "derivative work."

Derivative works can be hard to spot when significantly altered. My concern here would be whether the map(s) in question were created from scratch or whether your web designer simply altered an existing (and perhaps already copyrighted) work, which would thus make it a derivative work, not an original.

Without having seen the maps in question, it would be difficult to ascertain whether they would be considered original or derivative in nature. Maps, however, can be difficult to produce from scratch (hence cartographers being paid to create them). If I were in your shoes, I would ask my web designer whether there is any possibility of there potentially being an infringement with your map on anyone else's work just to be safe.

Nonetheless, I hope this response wasn't too "wordy" and sheds some light on the situation.

Regards,

Steph

I guess I should have logged in prior to writing that post so people would know my background.

Steph

FEB

Lenn,

You are such an intelligent person. I am so happy you have shared your knowledge here in the Rain so I could read it. ;-)

Ann Hayden remaining positive in 2009

Ann. Thanks. This is something with which I have some experience.

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