Note: This piece has been re-posted on hundreds of blogs around the globe.  Since I originally wrote this piece, I have received hundreds of emails and comments. Unfortunately, I can't possibly responde to all of them. If you would like to receive my articles, I can add you to my Quick Notes distribution list. Email me at Mike@MorganFlorida.org   You can also read prior articles at http://realestateandhousing2.blogspot.com/ and on the left had side you can sort through prior posts by title and date. Thank You all for the nice comments and emails.  I encourage everyone to email this piece to your Congressman and Senators.  The links are below.  Here goes . . .

     I was going to call this "Banks March Us Into Depression," or maybe more fitting is . . . "Complete Collapse of US Banking System."  Folks, that is what we are looking at.   I don't see any way around it.  What we're seeing here in Florida, is your crystal ball.  And what happens here, is coming to a town near you . . . soon.
 
This past week I didn't write anything, because what I am seeing unravel is disturbing to the point I had to question what I was seeing and hearing.  So I decided to take as much time as I needed to digest it all, and then put something together for you.  So here goes . . .
 
I could prepare volumes of spread sheets with Bernankesque numbers.  I could talk about commodity prices and oil and third world politics and a dozen other metrics that all lead to the same conclusion.  But let me give you a ground zero look.  That's what I do best.  I will leave the manipulation of the numbers to the folks on Wall Street that do it best.  The same folks that have created the precipice they will soon push us off.
 
I spend a great deal of time dealing with Asset Managers hired by banks stuck with REOs.  So as not to re-hash the events leading to the housing crisis, I will not discuss the free-money policies of the past, and I will not discuss the absolute lack of accountability in making the bad loans of the past.  Let's just deal with how the banks are attempting to recover. 
 
Unfortunately, banks are not making a realistic effort to address the crisis.  That may be because they cannot.  As the banks and builders have announced write down after write down, my mantra has been . . . and continues to be . . . NOT ENOUGH - NOT ENOUGH - NOT ENOUGH.  I still believe that.  The builders and the banks have underestimated the magnitude of the problem, and they continue to do so.  Analysts continue to look at the rear-view mirror and attempt to manipulate numbers based misguided historical assumptions. NAR and the economists continue to twist the numbers, lie and then slip in prior-month adjustments without actually comparing apples to apples.  But that is another article.  The bankers and the fat cats on Wall Street sit back and watch the carnival, collecting fees from everyone they can snooker.
 
I have recently started turning away REO properties from banks and asset managers, even though hundreds of thousands of real estate agents nationwide are lined up waiting for these listings.  I made the decision because we have reached a point where these listings are costing us money, and the asset managers are squeezing harder and harder . . . because they can.   There are GREAT asset managers and there are incompetent ones.  The majority fall into the incompetent bucket, but we eliminate them quickly.  The banks, on the other hand, continue to throw away money with the bucket of incompetent managers.  It seems like the mortgage brokers that pushed funny money for the last six years are now starting asset management companies.  We still work with a number of asset managers and banks directly, but the list of asset managers is growing smaller as properties fail to sell.  When that happens, properties are bundled up and sold in bulk or at auction.  This puts further downward pressure on markets because of lower prices and the inventory was not absorbed . . . it just changed hands.
 
Banks cannot afford to take 50-75% hits on mortgages, and that is exactly what is happening.  The precipice is here, and we are on it.  Recent reports about home sales rebounding are insignificant, because no one is accurately describing the growing inventory build-up.  Banks simply don't have the margins to deal with this crisis.  And for that reason, we will see massive bank failures and this will snowball into a complete economic meltdown.  If you have an argument against this scenario, I'd love to debate you on a live conference call.  We deal with the banks.  We know what is going on before the numbers show up at the Fed or any analysts desks.  We deal with the public, so we hear the desperation at all levels.  I listen to grown men cry about how to explain to their families that they are losing everything.  I listen to people that I fear are on the verge of suicide.  I read about people committing crimes simply to put food on the table.  Spend a week with me, and you'll understand why there is no feasible way to avoid a Depression. 
 
The banks will fail, just as they failed in 1929 . . . but worse because this time some of this leverage is as high as 40:1.  Insurance?  Where is that going to come from?  There is no insurance that can cover the cost of the coming bank failure, unless we just print more money.  We are two generations removed from 1929.  I am talking about Biblical 40 year generations.  And when you look at who we were in 1929 and who we are now, you'll realize just how ugly it is going to be.  In 1929 there was a stronger base of family values.  There was a work ethic that we don't see today.  The generation from 1929 - 1969 grew up with a totally different set of values than the generation from 1969 - 2009.  The first generation worked their way out of the Depression.  Today's generation doesn't understand work.  We only understand creative financing and how to live off the next generation.  And sadly, that is where we are today.  We are at the precipice, and we are going to push our children over the edge because we lived so far above our means and ignored all of the warning signs.  We lived just like the Romans in their final days.
 
Harsh?  Like I said, spend one week with me, and you will go home with a new outlook about life, people and the crisis that is unfolding.  You will go home with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach.  Guaranteed. 
 
Just Florida?  No, but Florida is your crystal ball.
 
The next generation?  I would like to think we will eventually build ourselves out of this Depression with nuclear plants, solar and wind farms, seawater desalinization plants new roads and bridges and state of the art cars and trucks.  Unfortunately, who is going to get their hands dirty?  For those that study history, how would we manage a WPA with today's generation?  It will be a much tougher recovery, because we have lost the fundamentals that made us the greatest country in the world. 

Conference Call:  I am going to hold a conference call on June 26th.  If you would like to join the call, please email me Mike@MorganFlorida.org 

NOTE: If interested in additional information visit my institutional website at www.Morgan-Florida.org or my institutional blog at  http://realestateandhousing2.blogspot.com/consumer or our consumer website at www.Treasure-Coast.us   If you would like to be added to our distribution list, please email me at Mike@MorganFlorida.org

Email Your Congressmen And Senators:  Congress - https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml
Senate - http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

 

Julie Gaumond, REALTOR®
Keller Williams of the Treasure Coast

Direct - (772) 370-7999
Email -
Julie@FloridaHomes.PRO
Website- www.FloridaHomes.PRO

 

 

 
Post is included in group: REO REALTORS
Post is included in group: Independent Brokers

125 Comments on Florida at the Precipice of Depression

JUN
05
2008
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Mike, This is one depressing post!!!! But I honestly can't find anything in it that I disagree with. My market is pretty much ground zero, Poinciana Fl. Last report was that 1 in 15 houses are in some stage of foreclosure!!! I can't find the data to back it up but it is my opinion that the 34759 zip code could be the worse in the country. I don't know when it will turn but right now the only homes selling out REOs and short sales.

In 2005 I purchased a 70x100 building lot for $54,000 an sold it that afternoon for $72,000. Last week there was a 3/2 house, 2 lots down, that hit the market for $50,000!! Incredible!!!

Everybody is upside down.

If you have any opportunities for REOs that need selling in Poinciana, let me know.

This is a very good post! Folks need to take the rose tinted glasses off and look at reality. Reality bites!! 

But......this too shall pass.

4:40pm • #1


Thanks Bryant. I know it is a depressing post, but it has been bothering me for the last few weeks.  When I speak to the bankers, they are either hiding under their desks or retiring.  When I speak with consumers, it is downright chilling.  Yes, this too shall pass, but I have an eery feeling this will be a much more violent Depression than 1929 in financial terms and in physical violence, crime and maybe worse.

4:47pm • #2

This was a deeply insightful analysis.  It's not easy to confront the truth, but that is the only hope that we have of dealing with this crisis.  Thank you for a well written perspective of this situation.

Lola Audu
5:15pm • #3

Thanks Lola. I only scratched the surface.  I could write a 50 page report on the foundation of the crisis from restaurants closing to loss of critical state jobs because of the loss of taxes and real estate transfer fees, as well as shutting down fire departments, schools, libraries, medical care, etc. . . and the ones that get hurt are the one that cannot afford it.  The builders and bankers that made billions off of this, will make even more money on the other side. 

5:25pm • #4
JUN
06
2008

Yes thanks Mike!  Please confirm this info with more data when you can.

cadams
10:00am • #5

Not sure that it is fair to compare current generation(s) with past generations.  Past ones couldn't deal in today's world of tech, etc., any better than their grandchildren can dig a ditch.   But it is not ditch diggers we need, but engineers, etc., and we are pretty good at out sourcing for what we need.

 

What is required to turn this around is simply a return to a balance.  People who wanted to be upper middle class making only lower middle class wages will have to get real.  They have no choice.

Still a better lifestyle than being in India or China or even the U.K.

So we will gather ourselves up and move forward, as civilized humans usually do.

 

That said, cash in on the crash by owning lots of puts on bank stocks!

 

Paul
1:12pm • #6
JUN
07
2008

Even if this populace had the drive to dig in, it is flat broke.  And, unfortunately, it's also massively in debt.  This is the finanancial reality that we're facing.  We've got NO tools to fix ANYTHING!  Short-term we'll try and shoot our way out (militarism), but this will soon fade, leaving us also morally bankrupt to boot!

Seer
4:03am • #7
JUN
08
2008

"...leaving us morally bankrupt to boot"

The Iraq torture fest took care of that.  We're getting exactly what we deserve.

 

9:26pm • #8
JUN
09
2008

Right on Mike.  I recently witnessed an auction of commercial real estate properties located mostly in Florida that left the selling institution feeling like they just got sucker punched in the groin, the bids were that low.  The market in Florida is leading the way down the rabbit hole.....and it's a dark SOB down there.

Banks are completely irrational, thinking they can get "just below par" for absolute crap investements that are falling faster than the Titanic.  But one by one they are starting to realize the utter and complete chaos that will ensue when the ship actually does go below the water.....and all they're left with are a few dinghies and a bunch of dead bodies.

geezer
10:27am • #9

I think Mike has missed one very important way out of this, we need to have a massive effort on hiring every smart person available to solve these problems.   I see massive underemployment, and massive rejecting of smart people because we are overqualified, and can think out side the box. We really did dumb down America, and this is the end results.

Richard Allen
10:54am • #10

Mike - it's hard to find fault with your conclusion on Florida. From what Im seeing in the numbers, and from what Im hearing from the "on the ground" reporting, it's beyond ugly and a world of hurt is barreling down the pipe. The light at the end of the tunnel is truly a train. But the question for me is, how do failures at the regional bank level (or just in FL) take down the rest of the country? Florida will have its disproportionate affect on costing US taxpayers money - but do you see the Florida effect multiplied out many times over, or just a few? I mean, you'd think that Las Vegas could end up in a similar spot, most of CA is at risk, but what share of lending capacity gets impaired? How does this spread to the broader credit crunch? We're going to have some major state recessions, and that will drag overall US growth figures probably into negative territory, but how widespread will the damage be from the implosion of RE in the worst markets? I sense you are talking here about the coming problems in commercial RE that are ultimately linked to residential, but only lagged in their timing. How does this end up differing from the S&L crisis given the relative geographic concentration of the problems now vs then?  Im trying to better understand the mechanism that is at work here, rather than disagreeing with your conclusion. Im quite pessimistic on the whole US outlook.

Geoff
11:40am • #11

"I have an eery feeling this will be a much more violent Depression than 1929 in financial terms and in physical violence, crime and maybe worse."

 

Your feeling is justified by simply observing today's generation.   They CAN'T actually DO much of anything in the way of real work or productivity....and when that realization hits home in the form of being broke, hungry and in the cold/heat/dark, they are going to take to the streets in search of what they perceive to be "their rights".  

 

All those folks standing around the Superdome in New Orleans after Katrina hollering "WE NEED HELP" are the previews of coming attractions, coming to a locality near you in the not-to-distance future.  Urban areas are going to turn especially ugly, but I fear even those of us in rural areas will not be spared entirely.

ndy
12:17pm • #12

The Baby Boomers - the hippies, the cool generation, the rebels.... Who walked around barefoot and loved one another when it was convenient, and then sold the country out from under us.

 

And who's left to try and salvage it all?  Gen X and Y.  Maybe, if any of us were left that still understood any math or science, and could help revamp the manufacturing industry that went to sh*t, but there's no chance of that.

 

Just sit back, and let's learn Mandarin.

Thank you Boomers
12:53pm • #13

And WORSE where was Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton in having a JOBS march for those people????  They were Assulting the duke lacross players.....and 20,00 ILLEGALS had to be shipped into New orleans for the clean up.....Yes be scared

----------------------------------------------------

All those folks standing around the Superdome in New Orleans after Katrina hollering "WE NEED HELP" are the previews of coming attractions, coming to a locality near you in the not-to-distance future.  Urban areas are going to turn especially ugly, but I fear even those of us in rural areas will not be spared entirely.

Richard Allen
1:01pm • #14

I find that folks who run around screaming that the sky is falling without offering any pathway to a solution are essentially cheerleaders for chaos...  fun to look at but not terribly relevant.

AlwaysPrivate
1:21pm • #15

AlwaysPrivate,

Some problems are too large to overcome without serious pain.  This is one of them.  I could (as many others have) talk all day along about how the problems need to be fixed....but it won't be done, b/c most of America is made up of entitlement-driven idiots who can't even tell you the name of their state Governor or the Vice President of the country they live in.  Expecting people like that to "wake up" is like asking Michael Moore to stick to a diet...ain't gonna happen.

Secondarily....once a nation finds itself in such a situation, chaos is typically the only thing that will bring people back to the reality that liberty is something we have to ALWAYS be vigilant at protecting.  Those, like yourself perhaps, who say otherwise (as if there was an "easy" solution that didnt' involve a severe recession/Depression) are nothing more than cheerleaders for half truths and  wishful thinking.....neither of which will help you when the masses come to your doorstep looking for your wife, daughters, food, etc.

Don't get me wrong....nothing would please me more than to be wrong about all this.  But history does repeat itself...and when economic systems collapse, the result is chaos.

geezer
1:54pm • #16

 

Good article but I fear that he is understating it.  Talk to these young people and you get a blank stare if you ask them about their future plans unless it is get a new cell phone or the latest edition of GTA.  Yep, it is going to be the great unwinding here, and the losers are?  Thanks for the view from FLA>

Fedayeen
1:56pm • #17

Thanks to Everyone - I wish I had the time to respond to all of the post and emails, but the response to this piece has been overwhelming from all over the world. This post has been re-posted worldwide, and I am now receiving media requests for interviews. Let me just say, I hope I am wrong, but things are still getting worse. The worse part is the attitude of government, the banks and Wall Street.  It is clear to see, these guys are preparing for the worst, but they will profit from the collapse. Unfortunately, unlike the 1930's, I think this collapse could lead to a frighteningly violent world. 

2:05pm • #18

Fedayeen....you may be right.  Whatever happens, I think it will ultimately shock the entire world at how catastrophic it is.  The bottom line is that this generation is mostly losers and self-centered knuckleheads who haven't thought a moment in their life about anything other than video games, sex and x-games (often hurting themselves by attempting more than 1 at a time).   Sure, there are lots of exceptions.....but for the most part this generation is stupid, lazy,  has no skills that would help a traditional  community thrive and have come to truly believe they deserve the greatest things in life at no cost.

People like that will do anything to get what they need, and they won't think twice about the legality (or morality...which they can't even spell) of the means they choose to do so. 

 

geezer
2:06pm • #19

<<

I find that folks who run around screaming that the sky is falling without offering any pathway to a solution are essentially cheerleaders for chaos...  fun to look at but not terribly relevant.>>

 

Not relevant?  Do you know what the word means? It would somehow be more relevant if the author offered you a way to profit from it? More useful perhaps. But hardly more relevant.

So , for example, if you were going on vacation somewhere tomorrow and a local friend in the destination area called and told you it's pouring rain and the forecast calls for the same all week long, you'd consider it irrelelevent because he didn't specifically tell you to bring and umbrella?

Please look up the word 'relevant' in a dictionary, because I'm pretty sure you meant to say something else.

 

bamboo
2:43pm • #20

You old boomers will be surprised.  You got us into this.  Most of the Gen X and Y folks I see right now could outproduce their boomer precedents 2 to 1 and still have time left over to chat with mom on the cell phone.  Look at any store or fast-food restaurant:  those folks behind the counter are working damn hard and delivering more goods to you in less time than any of you ever did.  Sure, we have to get over the videogame addictions, but you know what: when your choice is between playing games or putting the food on the table, the food wins out every time.

Gen X and Y are the ones who are going to dig us out.  Not because we all know how to right now, but because we have two critical things working in our favor:  first, we don't have a choice (thanks to you and all the debt bombs you dropped on us).  Second, WE ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO COMPROMISE WITH EACH OTHER. All the team sports and constant-contact telecommunications have given us the skills to work together. By contrast, Boomer politics has been nothing but bullshit back-and-forth heels-in-the-ground "my way or the highway" stubborn posturing for 40 years with no thought of compromise and consequently no real progress on any major issues. Clinton was bad and Bush is worse.

Those days are over, because we can't afford another 4 years of partisan sniping.  

We can't afford to keep living the way the Boomers wanted to live.

We will build a New America.  Not because we want to, but because we HAVE to.

wisdom-seeker
2:49pm • #21

To Gen-Xers:

Today's financial crisis was perpetrated by Generation-X.  CDOs and
other structured investment securities were created by Gen-Xer
"financial engineers" -- any Gen-Xer will tell you that Boomers
aren't smart enough or energetic enough to have created them.  And now
that it turns out that corrupt Gen-Xers sold them fraudulently to
investors and the general public, everyone has to suffer, and the
disaster described by Mike Morgan is occurring.

Boomers are bad, but Gen-Xers are worse. You think that Boomers are
full of crap and that you'll be cleaning up after our mistakes, but
you'll actually be making one huge blunder after another.  Motivated
by fury and anger at Boomers for doing nothing, you'll rush in to "do
something", and the things you do will be disastrous -- lead to world
war, lead to financial disaster.  Your generation's utter contempt for
everything that came before you, and your recklessly eager willingness
to destroy it, will backfire on you and lead you to desperation and
self-destruction.

For Gen-Xers who even survive the next 10 years, you'll come out of it
bitter and angry. And it won't be the Boomers who'll be blamed or
remembered for these disasters. You'll be blamed.

So I'm just going to say to Gen-Xers: Learn to think.  If you're
reaching decisions based on your hatred of Boomers, then you aren't
thinking.  Otherwise, you will be the victims of your own disasters.

John J. Xenakis
GenerationalDynamics.com


John J. Xenakis, GenerationalDynamics.com
5:44pm • #22
Very chilling article, but I agree. I heeded my late father's words and started saving a small sum of money in savings bonds and other government securities regularly since 1998. Also, my mom's community college Personal Finance text book never said that investing in real estate is the best way to save for retirement. It was stocks, and some bonds. I am happy to say that I can be unemployed for several years and live off my government securities, if necessary. I can easily downsize since I'm renting. I'm open to studio apartment living and have done exactly 3 years ago. I can find a place for under $500 monthly and can live for maybe 8 years there with no job and no government check. So I'm all set. I will not need to dip into my 401k or IRA unless the depression lasts 12 years!
Bill
7:07pm • #23

Folks, way back in 1929 America was very white. If another depression hits, social condition will turn bloody.

mo
7:15pm • #24
Hi Mike, I work in the home building industry in Atlanta. There are 150,000 developed lots sitting in inventory in the metro area. REO lots are selling at 20%- 30% percent of their high. Many builders are managing to hang on, but have a bunch of standing inventory, both in completed houses and in lots they own ( and bought at the market top). When other builders buy these discounted REO lots they will be building essentially the same new house for $70,000 to $100,000 less in cost, and all of the builders with standing inventories of lots or houses will be toast. Community Banks are still making construction loans to builders at the old (high) lot prices. So they will get toasted along with the builders. I think they are only still lending to builders because they have no one else to lend to. Subs are going under right & left, as are building supply companies. I talked to our brick material rep today, and he sounded very, very scared by what he is seeing out there. It's definately getting UGLY in this market, and it will only get worse.
Neighbor to the North
8:01pm • #25
"I think Mike has missed one very important way out of this, we need to have a massive effort on hiring every smart person available to solve these problems. I see massive underemployment, and massive rejecting of smart people because we are overqualified, and can think out side the box. We really did dumb down America, and this is the end results." The bankers, etc., who got us into this mess are 'smart persons'. In my experience (and general observation of the world, e.g., LTCM), smarts are very often accompanied by arrogance, overconfidence in ability to control one's environment/situation, and blindness to risks. We need people with balance and common sense - 'thinking out side the box' was not necessary to avoid the current crisis, it was pretty obvious to any reasonably intelligent, but aware layperson that something like the current situation was bound to happen.
Mike T.
9:23pm • #26

lets all face it

Bush and the federal reserve caused all of this

 

we are having bubble after bubble and who is profiting WALL STREET and BIG OIL and who is friends with these 2 enititys GEORGE BUSH

This is the biggest scandal in history

BEWARE IF WE HA VE A NATURAL DISASTER WE WILL HAVE A BREAKDOWN OF SOCIAL SERVICES AND THE ONLY THING OF VALUE WILL BE A BOTTLE OF WATER AND A CAN OF DOG FOOD

OUR FUTURE WILL BE LIKE THE MOVIE MAD MAX ALL KILLING EACH OTHER OVER FUEL AND FOOD

IT WILL BE OVER

joey
10:12pm • #27

It is actually nice to see a post that tells the truth.  Looks like the west is in serious trouble.

Kevin B
10:41pm • #28

joey - I hope you loose your shirt!!! After Obama takes any freedom that we have left away, I am sure you will still blame Bush.. I do not like Bush either.  Just like the repubs blame Clinton for everything - you will live in your little fantasy world for the next 8 years.   That is if we actually get out of this financial disaster.  Hay women, go shopping that is what you like to do, and considering that you basically run the consumer economy - GO OUT & SHOP!!!! NOW!!!  Here is your chance to save us.

Kevin B
10:50pm • #29

Excellent article!  BRAVO!  There are hundreds of thousands of us who have the same ideas.  But we don't have a voice.  When will our political parties stop sniping at each other and stop a moment to look at who is making the profits off of this mess?  I cashed out of the market and banks.  When Bank of America only pay savings accounts depositors 0.25 % on each $100,000 that alone tells you that banks are no longer banks.  They are loan companies that are acting like sailors on leave with our deposits.  Do you realize that the interest on 100k in a year amounts to $250?  That can't even buy you a cheeseburger from the dollar menu for each day of the year $365!   What the hell is going on bankers?  You are charging $25 overdraft fees and are loaning money to vagrants.

Duck and Cover
11:05pm • #30

This week in Indianapolis the Marines are starting a three week Urban Warfare exercise. They will sharpen their skills using various shopping centers in the city. All affluent area excluded. The Former Marine Mayor ihas welcomed them with open arms. 

I visited friends in town there, last week. The neighborhoods with boarded up foreclosures houses was staggering.

Thanks for such a direct and clearly written article.

 

 

Tag
11:16pm • #31

The housing bubble that burst , that has us where we are today was caused by the root of all evil ,money . Two years ago no one ever imagined that they would see bear stearns go under because of these morgaged backed loans . But not one bank , morgage broker , realator , appraser every one getting a piece of the pie was complaining , they were rakeing in the dough . Now we the tax payers again have to pony up our hard earned cash and bail out the greedy who made their windfall in the boom . All involved should bear the costs . When I baught my 1st home I had to put 20% down , and provide proof of income . What morons came up with the no money down , no interrest loans and all the other types of loans and than talked all these people in to homes that they could not afford in the 1st place . You mean to tell me that when a house doulbles or triples in 3 years , when it took 20 years in the past no one saw this coming . all they saw was money ! That's greed . Some of the smaller banks will close and we all will pay the price for this . The boomers are getting a bad rap here . The middle class lost all their jobs , the greedy large corporations sent all their jobs out of here . One area akron canton ohio lost all manufacturing jobs , hoover vacume cleaners , goodyear tire , timken bearings , are gone forever . The big three auto makers are buying out older and skilled workers , replacing them with 10 to 11 dollor workers . Here's the slap in the face , exxon mobil having windfall profits from oil going from 60.00 to 138.00 in a year gets tax subsidies . The young kids can't make or fix anything , that's because we have no jobs for them . This country used to graduate 4 engineers to 1 lawyer , today its turned around . We need to take back america from big business . We need jobs , health care and education, than the financial crises will end . Rebuild the infrastructure, educate our kids , get out of iraq 158 millon a day for what , gas to go over 4.00 a gallon , and a tax break for the big oil companys . And the loss of over 4 thousand lives ! Cruel and in humane . This country is still great , we need to change the greed in washington . Remenber the 60's ...

it

james elder
11:47pm • #32
JUN
10
2008

Wow Im glad Im not the only one who sees this coming our way! This will be so much worse than 1929, back then people would wait in line for hours for a bowl of soup and a chunck of bread they will not do that today. You will see killing and robbing in every major city in america. My guess is the stuff will hit the fan by the end of summer or next spring at the latest.One of my customers told me gun sales are up 17% in our state! All I can say is be ready because when this house of cards comes crashing down it will be up to you to take care of yourself and your family.

JAM JR
12:32am • #33

I have been hearing of the end of the world coming ever since High School back in the 70's.

Things will get tough, ugly and mean, but that is it folks.   It's called Life and there are ups and downs.

I am so tired of hearing the end is coming, the END is coming.   For once, I wish finally came so that we can move on...   

Joseph
12:34am • #34

It is better to be prepared just in case things get really ugly. If things pass over without much trauma, then no big deal if you were prepared for the worst. Do you really think Pennsylvania Avenue, Wall Street and Madison Avenue would ring a bell when things are about to turn for the worse?

BradMason
1:06am • #35

Comparing what's going on now to the Depression is a stretch. Communication and technology are so different from then, and we can turn around much faster. Maybe the Us will devalue the dollar. That would suck, but other countries have done it.

I'm not saying we arent going through an economic seizure, but noone, thankfully, is ever clairvoyant, and we just dont know what's around the corner. It is possible, however, that things could get to a state where martial law is declared, most likely because people are hungry, but anyone that thinks that the price of oil is oging to stay high while the US markets collapse, along with the rest of the world's are on crack. Brazil follows our stock market to a tee. I see it every day, and neither BRIC or Europe is getting off lightly when the DOW takes a dive.

Once the economy slows, so will energy use, and say goodbye to the commodities bubble. Where will copper be when noone's buying anything? Cheaper fuel will mean cheaper food, so all people will have to riot over is extras, which statistically people DO NOT do in times of economic stress. People only riot in recessions when they can't eat, and we'll have public works projects in a heartbeat, unless a stupid REPUBLICAN right-wing baby boomer takes over. I love the morons blaming the hippies for the excesses of America, when they were the anti-commercial, pro-sustainable use people decades ago, and it was RIGHT-WING Zombies who didnt listen and worshipped RAYGUN and his christian dimwit followers. Gen X is selfish, but we've toiled in the boomer shadow and we are tech-savvy so pray we dont cut your entitlements, like they did in Russia. We're also not a bunch of religious zealot idiots, who I'm sure will try to take govt by coup.

However, if people can't eat, then yeah they will start rioting, but look at how China and Russia keep their people down. I'm sure our govt can muster the same control. We already have the biggest prison system around. People are so desperate for their boring lives to end and for something dramatic to happen, but I'll believe it when I see it. The old adage buy low/sell high is the best one. We've been through two massive bubbles in the last ten years, and I think a lot of people have learned their lessons. Of course, its too late for many, but the boomers children may finally learn that lesson about jobs that gen-xers got in the downturns and downsizing mixed with booms of the 80s and 90s.

I thought Florida sucked in the 80s. It must really suck now. Having all those scumbags move around the country will suck the most, because that state is headed underwater anyway. Lots of room in Canada, and once we solve the must-solve energy problem, we'll be sailing happily into the future until an asteroid or supernova shows up, or we really can't find a way to replace fossil fuels and we get nuclear war, winter etc. Whatever, I grew up under the bombing begins in five minutes. I've yet to see anything scare me more than that. That said, this is bigger than just a savings and loan crisis. This is across the board, but maybe the end of real estate is not the end of life as we know it. Homes will get cheaper, people will rent and then buy them. The govt will create jobs if it has to, hopefully in the rail and energy sector. We'll abandon our military adventures, and then oil will drop, the world will keep humming, and most Americans will still be the losers they never knew they were, and a few will win. This bullsh*t life based on luxury with no merit will end, however, and that won't be a bad thing. We'll be so industrious, we'll come back, and triumph, and do it all over again.

3:20am • #36

Good post Mike. The truth is the light. But I fear that much of the generational blaming I'm seeing on the post here  will get this country no where fast.  In fact it shows that the big banks and major corporate elites have nothing to worry about because the average citizens will self destruct in violence, ignorance and division while doing little to hold the real culprits accountable for their actions. James Elder is right in his post about the getting rid of the greed.

Dannydmor
3:42am • #37

the depression era gen. was the most spoiled after wwII.  our problems begin with them.

5:48am • #38

Near where I live in Miami, FL are several foreclosures. One place was advertised at $90K down from a purchase price of $348K in 06/2006. A small 942 sqft shack with a blue tarp roof.(MLS# M1221539) I had the pleasure to take a look inside this little nightmare. The plaster was falling of the ceiling due to the leaky roof. The carpet was 30+ years old. The windows were leaking, the floor was sagging and the roaches were dancing on the counter tops. Now, after being on the market for several month, the price has been reduced to $70K, still no takers. Realistically the property is worth the land value (maybe $30K) minus whatever it costs to demolish the house.

There must have been an incredible amount of fraud going on for banks to loan out $348K on this type of property. Somebody somewhere will be out of $300+K on this little gem. That is just one of thousands of examples in Miami-Dade.

On a personal level I am worried how (un)save my savings account at CitiBank is. FDIC is great, but when too many banks that are too big to fail are failing something is gonna give. I have the sneaky suspicion it's going to be my savings account.

6:36am • #39

This has been a long time coming, at least 20 years. It is worse than most think. The moral underpinings of our nation have been removed. Check the history. Read about the 1920's. Gambling, drug epidemic, flappers, gangsters, booze, hookers, non stop parties, financial fraud, run away debt, crooked polliticians, real estate collapse, stock market collapes, job losses. Study the history. Every 80 years we have a 12 year depression. Best estimate 2010. Economics is nothing more than people, interacting with people. The doctor rips off the lawyer. The lawyer rips of the mechanic. The mechanic rips off the doctor and on and on. Price inflation. Charge whatever the market will bear until it all breaks down. First the tech stock bubble and Clintonian trickle down immorality. Then the real estate bubble. The gambler/investor class have been trying to bubble the stock market, but no one is biting. Now they are bubbling the oil futures, forcing gas prices though the roof. They run up the prices, sucker the average Joe in, and sell st the top. Joe average takes the loss. Don't fall for it. Always buy low, never at the top. The problem is  Joe average is broke and lost his job. His company had to cut back because sales are dropping. Consumer spending is two thirds of the economy and the comsumer already has used up his home equity. Also his home is fifty percent overvalued and dropping. What is he going to borrow against and who is going to lend him the money to keep it all going? Is this too much truth to hear?  Wake up

Miles
7:18am • #40

Joey,

MAD MAX!!! That is perfect. I've been (half joking) telling friends of mine that it's gonna be MAD MAX if we don't do something soon for 2 years. They laughed as they told each other "you HAVE TO buy a house!"

As far as boomers vs. gen-x'ers.....we can all share blame. Us gen-x'ers DO demonstrate that sense of entitlement. But why? Maybe because the parents wern't around, divorced, or just didn't care??? Who knows? I can tell you though, that it WASN'T ONE generation that was involved in creating this situation. PEOPLE are the problem (and greed). Whether it was the tech stock bubble 8 years ago or the real estate bubble more recently, we just don't learn that what goes up MUST come down. This is so much larger than just a housing thing. We don't have manpower, time, money, or a lot of other various resources to fix/rebuild this country. Remember???? We're busy fixing/rebuilding OTHER countries.

Globalization has run it's course and it is time for us to stop focusing on the rest of the world and see what WE can actually do HERE.

troy
8:25am • #41

Thanks Mike. I agree, Florida is a slow-motion trainwreck.

Will taxes double? If taxable values fall by one-half, where's the money spoosed to come from?

The State Of Florida is not legally empowered to print paper money. As I recall, they were 4 billion

in debt. Go down to Lee County...it's all on line. Houses that were sold for $85K are now $30K

and owned by The Banks. How will the appraisers come up with the inflated numbers? Lie?

You can't opt out of paying the pensions. Its a long term milstone. In places like Detroit, I have witnessed local property taxes that were 25% of the market value. Buy @40K and your tax bill is

10K.  This is Florida's future.

 

Laszlo
9:03am • #42

I totally agree with this column. I am not savvy in economics, but I sure know that values are the foundation of actions, and the current breakdown on principles of life cannot result in anything good. Mike, it's unpopular, but it's the truth. Keep up the good work.

L Rivera
9:25am • #43

Want to know what it is like in Florida..talk to the people, everyday people..

 

When you speak to the waitress serving you coffee who says she doesn't know how she will pay her rent since business is down, to the owner of a landscaping company who laid off workers and has started cutting grass again after 8 years of having his crew do it all, when your favorite restaurant has cut staff and now only does dinners, when the 2 houses in your community sell as foreclosures for less than what you paid for your house in 1999, when everyone has their hand out for your wallet from local goverment to the FPL or your kids at school come home to tell you another friend/teacher/family is leaving town..you start to realize that things aren't bad in Florida..they are depressing...I have lived here for 20 years and this is the first time I have seen everyone, from every walk of life complaining about the same exact things  low income compared to high cost of living..

 

I believe that a wave of change is coming for America and will have a historic impact as great 1929...

Ann
10:03am • #44

 The seeds of our financial destruction come from many area's but a key component was the elimination of the Glass-Steagle act in the the late ninties. Glass-Steagle was a law that kept banks from doing deals with insurance companies and other financial entities and then repackaging it all into derivatives  and other exotic forms of financing that have come back to screw us. It was Bill Clinton that signed off on all this and of course he was lobbied hard by the financial industry. I think the bottom line is if they can't get rid of lobbyist's then nothing else matters, as they corrupt the people making our laws. Obama knows this and so does McCain, but at least Obama has taken the first step and has removed them from his campaign. If you want to see where this is all going then visit youtube and do a search on Peter Schiff and listen to his video's made well before all this was apparent. All his predictions have come true and his book "Crash Proof" is a potent read on where we are going to end up. 

Donald
11:24am • #45

What a shame to see all of this finger pointing in the comments.  I can see that things are going to get a lot worse before we stop looking for who to blame and start dealing with the problems, which essentially means producing something of solid value (rather than lifestyle and image products) again.  At least the US didn't outsource food production -- though we do seem to have destroy the fertility of our soils by agriculture that is essentially soil mining.  And once farming yields drop because fossil-fuel based agriculture (fertilizer, transport, heavy farm machinery, etc.) fails, we will be in really serious shit.

Thanks for telling it like it is, Mike.

David

David
12:11pm • #47

Too bad about Florida, too bad about California and Michigan and who know who else, but it's about time, we need this calamity, we need something to really live for, another reason to get up in the morning other than Oprah, CNBC, General Hospital, pornography - we're a very sick nation, in need of a very serious remedy.  The remedy may kill us but we're better off dead if things don't turn around.

Waver
12:18pm • #48

This is a good post and it will never see the light of CNBC and such because it is too forward thinking.  We are indeed headed for depression.  Watch the unemployment numbers.  It's guys at ground zero like Mike who see the misery ahead but mass media doesn't like to listen.  Just look at the rediculous stock picking contest on CNBC right now!  I thought this was supposed to be a news station!?!  It's coming slowly but when cities like Hartford CT with a poverty level around 35%, start erupting in civil unrest it will be too late to protect yourself from the calamity.  Start holding cash my friends.  Real Estate is dead for the forseeable future and the stock market crash is coming soon.

captainvideo
12:51pm • #49

Most of the sheep out there, dont understand the allegory and hints in this artice.  Let me explain why this country is in the mess it is in:  YOU ARE LAZY.  Heres the truth folks -- people who take credit, are LAZY, there is no free lunch - and when you 'borrow' form banks they simply print it.  And because the laws of nature say "NO FREE LUNCH" the bank is has no supernatural power to BREAK those laws of nature.

So what's all this mean?  When you are hungry and refuse to hunt to feed yourself, you will either DIE of starvation OR STEAL food from others.  The banking system is an outlet for you to 'steal' some free food without having to do anything for it.  That's why the sheep ran to the banks when they were giving out free lunch (money) during the housing boom years.

With stolen food the people become fat, and reproduce, creating even more people that refuse to hunt for their own food.  Eventually the people beome to large in number compared to the ammount of free food available - so they must die.  The end result is DEATH.  If you are delusional enough to think banks are actually giving you FREE MONEY, you are mistaken.... for unless you LABOR for your MEAL you will DIE of starvation.  This is the reason for war.  It's called the 'doctrine of squaring accounts' - which is analogous to people starving to death who refuse to feed themselves.

 

I know this all went over your heads.  But just remember this: you must WORK for your lunch, you CANNOT go to the bank and 'borrow' a years supply of food --- this violates the laws of nature --- which CANNOT BE BROKEN.

 

 

 

 

 

Obama
12:54pm • #50

Mike, Mike, Mike,

I always look forward to your blog as you have mostly hit the nail on the head when it comes to Florida real estate, not to mention the idiots in charge of this mess.  But, your claims of massive bank failures and economic depression are a bit of a tin-hat moment.  Sure South Florida on up to Central Florida, Like CA, AZ and NV are in a heap of trouble, and headed for much more pain.  However, except for some regionals, there will be few actual bank failures.  The exposures of federally insured institutions to real estate is a manageable problem.  Yeah, it will hurt their bottom line for a while, but it won't sink them.  Not all regions are in this mess, and not all regions are suffering the economic trickle down effect of the housing bust like South Florida.  Take a trip to Texas or Alabama or even Idaho.  These places are doing just fine.

Disclosure: I am a raging bear on Central to South Florida real estate (the north part of the state isn't doing too bad).  I think there is much further for prices to fall, although I do think sales volume will improve slightly as buyers pick up these opportunities.  The wild card in all of this is the overall economy.  The longer it suffers, the more pain Florida real estate will endure.

Regards,

       Toby

Toby
12:56pm • #51

Hey Toby - you need ti put on a tin-hat and listen to what the man is saying -- if you want to stay in fantasy land with the rest of the sheep, see if I care.  But banks dont lend you money so YOU can get rich and fat - they lend you money so they can CONTROL YOU -- and that's exactly what this housing crisis has ammounted to.... you may return to the farm now.

 

Obama
1:04pm • #52

In 1996,an asrologer who predicted that the USA would be in a religious war in the Middle East in late summer 2001,said that the years 2010-2011 would be the most difficult of the first half of 21 st century.He believed if we survived them in reasonably good shape we would have dodged the worst bullett in our nation's history.

On a lighter note,the Phillies will be looking to move some Florida real estate the next three days.

Tom Dockery
2:04pm • #53

Very provoking article. Anyone from the south coulda told there aren't jobs in FL. That's why the housing bubbles are always so bad there. Some tourism and stuff but not enough to justify high housing problems. The tax structure caused high tech to flee CA for India, China, and Phillipines; so, CA is next. Will the whole thing collapse? I believe not: we will see a long, deadly blodd-letting jsut like we are now. The government will print more money and give it to the rich bankers and other government insiders and the middle class will continue to be dried out. We cannot blame the young people as they flat out do not have opportunity. Why do 50% of minorities drop out of HS? Why not? They have watched their parents work 60 hour weeks only to end up barely able to pay the mortgage; so, the "rags to riches" story seems one of the past. (Unless you have a Congressman on your board of directors!).

timjowers
2:09pm • #54

Very good article, I'm seeing much of the same here in Vegas.  REO's can be had today for 50% off peak prices and the bottom is nowhere near found.

How bad will the social disorder get: SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS of a SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC DOWNTURN

What do the next 4 years hold for our economy: US Economic Outlook 2008-11+

 

All the best

Randy

Randy
2:13pm • #55

Very good article, I'm seeing much of the same here in Vegas.  REO's can be had today for 50% off peak prices and the bottom is nowhere near found.

How bad will the social disorder get: SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS of a SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC DOWNTURN

What do the next 4 years hold for our economy: US Economic Outlook 2008-11+

 

All the best

Randy

Randy
2:13pm • #56

Things are bad and will get worse. But if you've got a crystal ball and can see the future, who could ask for anything else? I'd give plenty of money to see the future. Why? Because you can position yourself accordingly. Obviously, in the coming collapse, there will be winners and losers. Thinking everybody will be a loser is a losing attitude. There has been a spectular run up in housing prices in perhaps 20 metro markets. Housing prices stayed stable in other areas. I don't doubt for a moment that things will get worse, but knowing this, what are you going to do? Get a life raft or keep rearranging the deck chairs?

Martin Turow
2:16pm • #57
I've noticed a significant amount of cross-generational antagonism in some of the above posts, which brings to mind a quote from an interesting book I'm currently reading: "Today mankind is locked into stealing ravenously from the future ... By our sheer numbers, by the state of our technological development, and by being oblivious to differences between a method that acheived lasting increments of human carrying capacity and one that achieves only temporary supplements, we have made satisfaction of today's human aspirations dependent upon massive deprivation for posterity. People of one generation have become indirect and unwitting antagonists of subsequent generations" (from "Overshoot: the Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change" by William Catton, 1980). Both as individuals and as a nation, we have allowed ourselves to get into a tremendous amount of debt. We did this because we adopted the illusion that progress is a one-way street and that the future will always be better than the past; we bet our futures on never-ending economic growth that would allow us to easily pay off debts in the future. Yet endless economic and population growth is impossible because of the finiteness of the earth. Despite the wizardry and smoke-and-mirrors act of our high financiers, the economy is ultimately tied to real, physical assets, not just numbers on ledger sheets. No amount of capitalist or socialist dogma can circumvent the hard reality of a finite planet with finite biological and mineral resources available for human use. So our problems are essentially non-political, but that won't stop us from choosing sides in a war of ideologies as Republican and Democrat demagogues each promise a utopian future resulting from their policies and blame the other party for standing in the way of us all reaching the promised land. We are in for a rough ride.
Adam in AZ
4:24pm • #59
Read Catton's book. He makes a lot of sense. Too bad his warnings weren't taken more seriously in the nearly three decades since this book was published.
Adam in AZ
4:31pm • #60

Our Government certainly sees the coming crisis, they are building prison camps all over the country.  (search for "FEMA Prison Camp").  The big question is: what are these camps for?  Are they debtors prisons?  Are they a place to put illegals?  Perhaps another terrorist attack will be allowed to happen and we'll use them to round up anything resembling a Muslim.  Or perhaps they are for you and me, or anyone who questions the Goverment once the economy gets into its real collapse and the unrest begins.  Maybe it is because the government knows we are already beyond peak oil, and since they refuse to hold American industry accountable for anything, we're going to endure severe oil shortages in the very near future.  Or maybe the camps are being set up to house people once our water supply is so taxed that militiamen from the water states start shooting at anyone that looks like they could be from the Soutwest.

We already have a covert, unaccountable army (Blackwater), if martial law is declared, what would stop the government from using them here to round people up?

I'm not afraid of terrorists, they've always been a red herring. I'm afraid of my government.  You should be too.

J
4:38pm • #61
OK, one more Catton quote: "In the American case [of the Great Depression], the fiscal deficits run up during World War II were merely the ledger-book picture of the change that eased the problem, not the cause of that change. Red ink didn't re-employ the unemployed. The growing national debt (expressed in money) was a fiction of accountancy, a fiction that enabled Americans to believe that wartime drawdown of the once-New World's resource reservoir only constituted 'borrowing from ourselves,' rather than stealing from the future" (from the book "Overshoot").
Adam in AZ
4:38pm • #62
OK, one more Catton quote: "In the American case [of the Great Depression], the fiscal deficits run up during World War II were merely the ledger-book picture of the change that eased the problem, not the cause of that change. Red ink didn't re-employ the unemployed. The growing national debt (expressed in money) was a fiction of accountancy, a fiction that enabled Americans to believe that wartime drawdown of the once-New World's resource reservoir only constituted 'borrowing from ourselves,' rather than stealing from the future" (from the book "Overshoot").
Adam in AZ
4:39pm • #63

You are right. I would love to just sit at home & not work. Working my ass off living paycheck to paycheck while seeing numerous friends that get paid all in cash, they don't pay taxes, but they will get full SS benefits(worked a few yrs when they were kids), they get their food for free from the county food pantry, while spending their moeny at the bar, they sell food stamp cards for cash to people that make 100K/year, get girlfriends on section 8 to live rent free & all the government cheese they take advantage of makes me want to just give up. I have a back injury & I'm in severe pain all the time, so I'm just ready to give up & go on disability - hopefully Obama will win & he will raise benefits for me...

JEFF
4:58pm • #64

Great article,  sounds like it could have been written here in my backyard ( im from detroit).  One thing I dont like seeing though is the generational comments popping up.  One thing the boomers and the folks from my generation seem to have in common is pointing the finger at someone else when it comes time to figure out who to blame for something.  The simple fact of the matter is our current predicament that we all must deal with was ultimately the result of greed.  Greed affects both boomers and gen x'ers, it knows no class or generational bounds.   Our credit based society is horribly broken,  and we need to return to a system of saving for what we want and need,  along with a rational lending standard for homes which doesnt allow folks to be indebted wage slaves for 30+ years.    Same thing with college tuitions and health care.  If folks had to pay cash to go to the doctor,  can you imagine what would happent to health care costs.  Well,  they would collapse of course,  which in all honestly needs to happen.  

Finally, as bad as things are in real estate,  this is the greatest thing in the world for the younger generation,  property prices will finally be very very affordable for our nations young families,  and thats how it should be.  A house is a place to live, raise families and hopefully have good memories in. It shouldnt be a debt albatross around your neck,  nor should it be your retirement nest egg or a cash dispensing atm as most folks used them for.   

 

DanfromMich
5:00pm • #65

This depression may be different than the 1929 depression in that we may never come out of it. With peak oil already here the energy to become a first world country again simply won't exist (unless cold fusion, etc. becomes are reality which is unlikely). America may again be a trendsetter as we lead the planet back to the dark ages.

We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

 

dark_matter
6:09pm • #66

Rest assureed, its not that bad.  Yes, Florida, California, and Nevada had super inflated booms which are going bust. But the rest of the US did not. In many areas homes are increasing still. Thats a fact, just check out the charts.  You are at the eye of the storm, but just like a hurricane  it doesnt necessarily affect the rest of the country.

 

 

MBB
6:32pm • #67

This can be resolved within 24 hours:

Reopen the Pacific Northwest to logging and forestry (the Snowy Owl scare was a hoax).

Reopen the deserts to mining, particularly mining for rare minerals that we need for manufacturing.

Open up the Florida and Pacific coasts to oil and gas drilling.

Open ANWAR to oil drilling.

Open the coasts to fishing again.

Open set-asides such as in Utah to coal mining.

Lets not get into the blame game here, the only way we are going to get through this is through cohesion. Jobs and Wozniak are Boomers yet so is Andrew Fastow who invented Structured Investment Vehicles. Penty of minions of all generations helped to further this along.

WE WILL HAVE TO WORK AND COOPERATE TOGETHER.

 

 

 

MG
7:24pm • #68

Nice post everyone loves a good horror story around the camp fire!  I am a lowly engineer but I can offer the following hope. Will banks fail? Yep.  Will new banks be formed? Yep, My personal opinion is that the US will dominate the world for the next 100 years!  We are just about done draining the middle east of oil they will be back on camels and throwing rcoks in ten years.  Short term we will will perfect high energy storage batteries for electric tranportation that will be powered with nuclear power plants (currently estimated to be $0.30/day to power vehicle)  The dollar and treauries are IOU's (not real money) if you are a US citizen living in the continental US you get new currency (one for one exchange) if not you get zero.  The rest of the world is holding boat loads of our worthless paper and we are their customer.  What happens to a local store that coninues to sell goods for worthless checks? (bye bye!)  We have the worls largest military and greatest freedoms...everyone wants to live here! Get your head out of you a**es and quit your sniveling act like americans for god's sake we are second to none! If you can't take the pressure move to France! Unitil the fat lady sings!

Fat_Lady
7:40pm • #69

I've felt strongly, as I think most people have, that the 'end' has been rushing upon us for many years. The big unknown for me was always--how? A nuclear war? A world-wide pestilence? Complete economic collapse? The unravelling of social and political order? Now it seems the questions are being answered in real time, it's all of the above, however I never really, fully realized that things would get this bad, this fast. Just in pondering the last 30 years I still don't believe it all happened--the collapse of the USSR, the emergence of China and India, computerization of everything. 9/11 and the anthrax attacks came with stunning jolts, the unthinkable actually happened, and almost everyday new unthinkables become ever more likely as the four horsemen gather speed quickly. Today it would be possible for a college student to fabricate a chemical or biological weapon in an apartment that could kill millions. We can be assured that there are those who are now in various stages of attempting this very thing. But frightening shadows are lurking everywhere. Suitcase nukes are missing in Uzbekistan and Kazahkstan. Materials for dirty bombs are intercepted during international transit. Former Soviet military scientists specializing in bio weapons migrating in droves to fundamentalist nations that support terror. Bird flu morphing into a catastrophic world-wide pandemic. Governments completely corrupted by violent drug cartels. Pornography accessable from anywhere and shoved down children's throats. Economic meltdown occurring on an unprecedented scale. Environmental ruination accelerating with no feasable plan to slow it. Governments everywhere committing more resources than ever to military expansion. Serial killers and other two legged animals running free like jackals in a carnal jungle. Will Israel lob the nukes on Iran tomorrow, or the next day? Will Pakistan's very unstable government with its stockpiles of nukes be overthrown by radical Islamists this year, or next? I live in China now and I can tell you: It's no better here. A little less worse in some ways, much worse in others. It's the whole world. We are watching it end. Quickly. We can run but we cannot hide, has never been truer. I'm not advocating religious fundamentalism but yet it seems that Solzhenitsyn was right: There is no where left to turn but upward. There's nothing else we as individuals can do for ourselves or our families. We need to try.

Layne
7:43pm • #70

Soylent Green?

Somebody
11:41pm • #71
JUN
11
2008

Probably adds up to World War 3 if we don't watch out. If it does happen though, it will keep people busy and occupied, lower the population and teach folks some kind of ethics system via the school of hard knocks. It sounds like every person will be looking out for themselves for awhile here in the US through this period. Those who don't prepare now will probably suffer later. Some of course will suffer more than others in this regard. Lets hope this does not happen.

E.
12:00am • #72

Mike,

Interesting analysis, however as you said history repeats itself. Just rewind to the depression and look across the pond to england in 1930. They have gone through what is unfolding around us now. It will be bad but not hopeless. Crime will rise and all that, but we will come through. There will be a reset of expectactions. No more weekend holidays to anywhere in the world, no more diving trips to Bali, etc.

Other powers will rise, but we will not be relegated to the bottom. People will need to learn to live within our means, just as the English did. We will still be a dominant force in the world, maybe not the paramount power.

Somewhere in these posts is a comment - that we will have to live and work hard and not spend money we have not earned.

thought_thru
12:38am • #73

Fat Lady, I couldn't agree more.  Buying oil from ME and crap from China with Federal Reserve IOU's is about the same thing as buying Manhattan Island from the Indians for a handful of beads.

1:59am • #74

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So much to say!

First off, @ MG... opening up resources to exploitation only delays the inevitable. And as a life-long resident of the Pacific Northwest, I speak for a great many people up here when I say keep your chainsaws and oil rigs out of my back yard and off my coast. The forests are just now starting to recover, it's taken nearly 20 years since the spotted owl issue. And lord knows we don't need offshore rigs making a mess of the already stressed Pacific. Instead of finding more resources, we need to stop our wastefulness.

Nextly, all this generation and politician finger pointing is wasteful arguing. The problems we face today are a combination of a hundred different smaller issues, many of them traceable right back to the dawn of the industrial age, We can't un-do what was done, what we can do is learn and make wiser decisions.

It's not going to be the end of the world. It's not going to be a permanent dark age. What the Human Race is facing is a paradigm shift back to fundamentals. No more 3,000 mile salads. No more suburbs and exurbs. Back to a re-ruralization of America (and other industrial nations too). We, as a society are going to have to stop our wasteful, greedy ways and get back to the more healthy, sustainable basics.

Know your neighbors, keep family close. Walk or bike. Live close to work and other services (parks, stores, etc). Reduce, reuse. If it breaks, fix it... don't just buy a new one. Grow as much food as you can. Buy and support local businesses. Lose the ego and sense of entitlement. If we work together instead of letting generation gaps and politics tear us apart, we will make it.

My friends, siblings and I can see it, clear as day; and I was born in 82... right on the border of X and Y (does that make me an XY?). My older relatives are boomers and see it clear as day. I know kids under 18 who see it clear as day. The seniors at the retirement home across from the Safeway by my parent's house see it clear as day (they have large gardens and grow a lot of their own food).

In closing, I am reminded of a most famous quote from a most famous president in a most famous speech: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Abe Lincoln may have been referring to slavery, but it is just as poignant today as it was in 1858.

Thorax O'Tool
2:06am • #75

Come on.  There won't be outbreaks of crime.  Bush is building hundreds of detention camps around the country for that!!   As for the baby boomers being somehow superior to Gen. X, are you kidding?  The baby boomers (and I'm one) are a bunch of fat, lazy, tv-addicted, suv-loving sissies compared to their parents.  And their parents weren't any harder working really.  Most women didn't even hold jobs outside of the home in the 1950's.  And THEIR parents, the ones who were working before the '29 depression, more likely than not lived in small towns or on farms.  How would they fare in downtown Chicago today if the banks failed and they lost their money and jobs?   Probably no better than today's Gen. X will.  All this generational one-upmanship going on is ridiculous.  I think you are going to see multi-generational families living together in one house again and each generation will bring its own skills into play.  I'm not unduly worried about the future.  This country needs a good cleansing.

gummy
11:25am • #76

My sister is in Venice Fla and she just told our mother yesterday on the 10th of June that she was letting her house go.This is sad ...

Mark
12:17pm • #77

Is it not just about time to release the bird flu virus or any other fatal communical disease to cut back on the "useless eaters"and criminal elite??

We need to reeducate the cops and goon squads that we,the people,demonstrating or not,are not the enemy of America,but the millionaires and billionaires,corporate criminals,crooked politicians and zionist pigs,that have infested our government from top to bottom.

HHN
1:14pm • #78

Greed Kills. I agree with you 100%, all hell is about to break loose in America and it will probably be the start of WW3.

America has been the long standing stabilizer of the World, now it has become the De-stabilizer of the World, mainly due to "Speculators" and the Craving to make a better life than the next guy.

We work more and more for our toys and our neccessities. The more we all work, the more Corporate America increases the prices.

Are we mot getting it America? We are just battling each other, but losing that battle.

Games Over folks, we are just in the early stages of our Demise...

Zeppelin
1:15pm • #79

"And THEIR parents, the ones who were working before the '29 depression, more likely than not lived in small towns or on farms.  How would they fare in downtown Chicago today if the banks failed and they lost their money and jobs?"  

I have to believe the average third-grade educated farmer of 80 or 90 years ago would have had better life skills than many college graduates of today.  They would not have gotten themselves involved in the kind of shenanigans that have brought grief to so many people today--nor would the institutions with which they dealt have allowed it.  My parents, who lived from 1898-1958 and 1902-1997, came through the Depression just fine.  In fact, they hooked up a trailer and traveled to the 1933 Chicago Worlds Fair to celebrate their 10th anniversary.

N-Dr-Lo-R
1:34pm • #80

I am sickened by this article and the comments. Some of you people may be borderline insane.

I had a couple great months in Sebring & Lake Placid (Florida) recently. This month will be tough because of the moronic sheep predicting the end of the world because of the reality that gas has to go up (even though they spend $3 on a little bottle of water and $4 for Starbucks!).

WHEN PRICES COME DOWN TO REALISITC LEVELS, PEOPLE WILL BUY HOMES - IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

Of course, I can understand the stupidity. I have done a lot in my life, but must say, real estate agents are collectively the most idiotic crowd I have ever been introduced to (and this place seems to be full of them). In my area, the idiot Realtors/builders are the worst "hit" by this market. And I don't mean just a sales slowdown, I mean being "invested" in completely crazy properties and in debt to the point of absurdity. For the life of me, how could they be THAT STUPID and not see it coming 10 miles away? When 50-80% of your customers are investors, that is a BIG red flag - idiots! If 15% were, that should still be enough for a "professional - the most loosely used term when talking about agents - to see.

And, as for comparing my financial knowledge to a guy like Mike's - I was a financial writer for over 10 years before going into real estate with literally hundreds of millions of readers of my material - HUNDREDS (not a few thousand Online!). I haven't checked him out but he HAS to be making money on this scare somehow! (Just like that charlatan Matt Simmons. He started his peak oil site so "spartan" and now it's a big moron-o-mall.

I have heard and argued against this great depression nonsense before (like most recently after the crash of the dotcoms - billion lost there too and no homes even left to someday salvage - it ALL went away, baby!). I have also argued against the irrational investors and bubble after bubble. Now, it's commodities - gas should be higher than it was last year, but nowhere near where it will get before it implodes - and the other commodities will too. It's THE SAME CRAP - bubble talk - people saying gold, oil, ag, etc. will keep going up and up - BULL$HIT!! That's what ALL bubble talk is! One way up. Anyone want to bet hard dollars if they think I'm crazy - seriously. I'll take all comers ... (according to Mike, your dollars will be worthless, so you won't be missing out!)

When everyone was telling me about Florida booming because of demographics and "God not making more land" and all that crap, I could have proved mathematically how it was crap. Just like the dotcom craze culd have been showed to be artificial. Now it's commodities.

People are telling everyone oil will hit $250/bbl - which it may for a few weeks! - just like real estate went through the roof. Where were the "experts" when real estate was way overpriced"? They were saying buy more real estate. Well, we were telling ALL our clients to sell. Just like I wrote about selling in on those dotcoms before they crashed! Well, at least most of my clients listened . And even the ones who sold a bit early may have missed the top, but they are buying now and loving it (as we are!).

BUT HERE IS THE ULTIMATE TEST:

If housing is in such a state of collapse, where are all these cheap homes? Can you get me on the ocean for less than a million? Where? GET REAL!!! The prices are still too high! THAT is the only problem. Whenever you DO see a "cheap" or great price, it's a fantasy short sale price (I saw a guy here say a home was 50k - look again Sherlock - it's a fantasy shot-sale price. Geez. People keep saying the prices are imploding and collapsing, but WHERE ARE TRHE CHEAP HOMES? There are none. I say let it fall another 20% and screw all the idiots who caused and helped this out - probably many of the readers here now wringing their hands ...

GET REAL SHEEP!!!

1:35pm • #81

I love these posts! Americans are SO SPOILED all the morons saying people who don't believe the "coming calamity" are the ones fantasizing and sheep - freaking incredible! The sky is falling has been around for a LONG time - there's always people wasting their lives on it, and, ahem, those who are willing to part fools with their money (can someone say "preparedness?").

Stupid fools. When a bubble pops, there is pain, It's not the first, fifth or tenth time!

Back to spoiled, rotten Americans - we bitc# about EVERYTHING but we all have so much - our poor are "rich" in many countries - and if you don't think so, you're obviously ignorant and don't travel so SHUT UP! "Middle Class" in China is considered a household making $10k per ear - that is a minimum wage job here that isn't even full time! We are all spoiled and it's a simple fact. Anyone over 40, 50" Do you EVER remember when you were young - even if solid middle class - your parents having so much discretionary money? I remember we had a single hose that had to last years (I have one for each spigot around the house and the hose holders and all sorts of unnecessary nonsense!)/. Things had to last - there just wasn't that much money! Did you have 2,3 and even 6 TVs? NO WAY! Maybe 2 - and this wasn't long ago. Most solid middle class families when I was a kid had a car - maybe another bomber. Now, even the kids have NICE cars! It's just VERY different ...

The moral of the story? SHUT UP and quit wasting your lives! The end is NOT near (well, yes it is - life is short and we'll all die - a FACT - so sitting there wasting what little we have worrying about fantasy collapses is absurd!

1:50pm • #82

This article is right on track. This guy knows what he is talking about on this topic.

I am a loss mitigator and I could tell you some horror stories that the banks are up to.

Bye bye banks. Your all out of business already. You just dont know it yet.

www.ems-world.com

Jason Moore Loss Mitigator
3:14pm • #83

Well, you all have helped me with my decision making on a concealed weapons permit and maintaining my cache of firearms. There's little enough sociability today and it's only going waaaay south. Boomers, X'ers, Y'ers, Millenials...all our crap stinks and we've all had a hand in the way things are and where they're going.

I doubt that there will be a statistical difference in the percentage of each group listed above who steps up and does the nasty job that lies ahead. Large numbers from each group will fall by the wayside and all have been marinated in the good times that have flowed from the great oil fiesta.

The book Overshoot that is referenced above is a must read, as dry as it is (sorry but sociologists have always put me to sleep). The short version might be a paper by M.King Hubbert called, "Exponential Growth as a Transient Phenomenon in Human History". It tells the same "we're screwed" story in fewer words. Read it.

Too many experts around here. None of us know how this will all shake out but my money is on "badly". To the expert in Lake Placid who wants to bet money on things turning out... okay, I'd love to bet you but you're going to be broke soon and unable to pay off (I'd insert a BWAH, HA here but it's no laughing matter).

There's no rush in drilling ANWAR and the coastal shelf, it'll be there down the road and my kids and grandkids might want a little left behind. Aw hell, what has posterity ever done for me?

Just  lighten up on the younger/older generation warfare okay? The oldsters aren't all to blame and the youngsters aren't all incompetent. As a group, we're all in need of some toughening up and it's a comin' roun' the bend.

kyop
3:41pm • #84

It is useless to warn people about what is coming...

Those that understand have already prepared.

Those that don't cannot be convinced.

6:19pm • #85

Mike, I wonder..... There are quite a few of us out here who are solvent. We are gainfully employed, and have little or no debt other than our mortgage. We have no late or missed payments. We're a good risk. We are a source of dependable revenue. Banks are in competition, and right now, a few of them are literally fighting to continue to exist. Can we form a group and negotiate with one of these banks for lower mortgage rates? Right now, the banks are losing money hand over fist. If a bank was able to take the good risk debt from other lenders, it would help their bottom line. Not to mention forcing the mortgage rates down.

John
7:03pm • #86

wisdom-seeker, right on. I am confident that the young folk today will be able to effectively deal with the crisis. They may not have the stamina to work in manufacturing 12 hours a day, but they don't need to, because they can design the machines & software to do the heavy work. Hopefully they will put gov't practices in place that will prevent Republicans from again ruining the country so badly.

Markor
7:33pm • #87

I'm in Australia and have a distant perspective on the problem. The solution could well be a massive increase in immigration to the areas that have housing excesses - such as the waves of humanity that helped build the USA into a superpower. Australia has used controlled immigration to help it's development. Two million families will need two million homes etc.  Migrants work hard and bring cultural diversity and a stimulus to the retail markets in general.

Personally I think you should be taking advantage of these real estate bargains. Our down turn is only just starting here in downunder and once again I'll be gearing myself up to snap up as many bargains I can safely afford.

What about marketing investment residential real estate packages to overseas buyers? I used to buy a dozen or so rental homes, arrange the finance and package them to Doctors etc as tax/investment vehicles. We all made a fortune. 

Chin up! Times are hard yet these are the times that the foundations of huge wealth can be created.

Regards

Graham

Graham Lake
7:55pm • #88

Having worked in banks for 20 years I know how corrupt they can be. I know we are in for some really bad times. However, the generation of 30 somrthings that I know will be able to ride it out. They CAN work hard. They are flexible and can, in fact have, lived with no electricity and had to haul water. In their/our other lives we are investment gurus, chefs, and chip production engineers. We all come from basic roots and know nothing comes free. So, take heart. We will survive if we can be flexible, let the easy life pass and find new ways to make a new life

Rocky
8:29pm • #89

Money keeps people together,they put up with each other because of it.Jobs Homes status symbols of all kinds,take that away and you will see how much brotherhood remains.Can you say Zero.

Jason
8:51pm • #90
120,197 Points 9 Featured Posts

"I have recently started turning away REO properties from banks and asset managers, even though hundreds of thousands of real estate agents nationwide are lined up waiting for these listings.  I made the decision because we have reached a point where these listings are costing us money, and the asset managers are squeezing harder and harder . . . because they can."

It's just not worth it - they made the mess, and they are continuing in the crazy way of handling the fall-out...I'm not doing these anymore after this last crazy transaction.

I hope and pray we don't crumble, but the signs are there. We could use a long list of miracles.

10:23pm • #91
JUN
12
2008

I am enjoying this debacle and like to see all these so called smart people lose their shirts. They deserve it given their greed. Don't want them to suffer but do want them to be sent back to zero.

Gumby on Wall
12:27am • #92

Lack of balance in economics where greed and excess rules are the root of most problems. The rule of money by the commercialist class is coming to an end (warrior, manual working and intellectual classes are the other collective psychologies) - people are sick and tired of corruption and boom and bust cycles and will demand a much fairer system based on progressive utilisation principle that is the foundation for a society that 'moves together'.  Unfortunately, drugs trade like heroin will reemerge in a big way as the criminal networks take hold of people's desperation and this will lead to increasing social collapse and violence in a country that likes to solve problems with guns. I especially pity USA Americans and the nighmare foist on it buy the clever (but dumb) wall street merchants........... and so on.....

Craig Walter
6:47am • #93

I don't know about Florida - but the Seattle Real Estate market is still in denial...thinking they are "different".

When I look at houses here that are asking $400K+ for what is essentially an ugly dump of a box -- I have to wonder, when will we return to sanity.

Observations from Seattle
6:49am • #94

Now might be a very good time for a hard-money investor to buy in these now-deflated bubble markets.

Some factors must be recognized regarding the long-term stabilized value of the homes and condos in such markets: the population is not declining, folks will always need housing, and the cost of building such homes is not going down any time soon.  Essentially, the hot air of the bubble was comprised of inflated land / site values, which may get close to but will never fall below $0.  There were certainly some relatively small cost premiums due to excessive demand for skilled labor during the inflationary period, but those costs pale in comparison to the unsustainable escalation of site values.

Like Graham suggested, the time to buy is when everyone else is afraid.  Cherry-pick your market for some good long-term opportunities and you might retire a bit earlier than you had otherwise hoped.

The risk of long-term loss in such markets is minimal at this point since you are buying far below current cost, miles below reasonably-expected future costs, and lenders are VERY willing to make a good deal with high-equity buyers.  Plus, if the bleakest of the dystopic projections prove true, all that investment capital you've been saving isn't going to be worth spit in a couple of years anyway, so you might as well put it into something of intrinsic value.  If the dystopic future projections prove overly pessimistic, so much the better.  I don't know those buble markets very well, but as a strictly intellectual exercise, I would look for some cherries in areas that are nearly 100% developed, with mature infrastructures and attractive amenities for retirees.  (Just a guess, but it seems likely that a lot of the newer developments might have a lot of trouble completing or maintaining their infrastructure and amenities over the next 5 - 10 years).  If I was anywhere near retirement age and could tolerate the humidity in Florida, I would be looking for a five-star deal about now.  no real rush though, since the current oversupply shoudl persist through at least early 2009.

 

F Holtsberry
9:20am • #95

I've really enjoyed this. The article is great, and absolutely on the nail. The commentary has been absolutely fabulous!

I bought a new house in San Joaquin County, California (ground zero for the default rate in California) just as the run up started. The "value" of my house more than doubled in just a couple of years. Many of my neighbors were refinancing and taking cash out and putting in pools, buying motorhomes (the smart ones, now they have somewhere to live), quads, customized 4X4's and Cadillacs galore! There was one guy that had parties almost every weekend that ran till the wee hours of the morning.

At the end of last year, everyone was trying to sell their toys.

I'm watching these same people leave and their houses sit empty. My wife watches the default notices in the paper. Sometimes it is four pages long.

I only feel sorry for them if they have little kids. Actually, it is the kids I feel sorry for.

It is amazing that the American media doesn't show the huge tent cities that have grown here on California and Nevada. The BBC sure does some nice stories. Maybe it's to take their mind off their own troubles. A little schadenfreude.

Me? I'm a boomer. Born at the tail end. 1964. Did I have anything to do with what is happenening? I don't think so, with all the finger pointing, I just have to say that. Did the gen-xers and gen-yers? Not as a whole. I think the responsibility should be shared by all.

Will there be civil unrest? You can bet what little equity you have remaining there will be! The US is no longer a homogeneous society. Half the time I can't communicate with people because they don't speak English.

Did you ever wonder why fast food joints have numbers on their menu?

It is the universal language. I swear, in one of my weaker moments I went into a McDonalds. There was this asian guy trying to talk to a hispanic cashier. Both were getting frustrated because neither could understand the other. The cashier calls over the manager ( I swear to God a Hindu woman...a Hindu in a McDonalds...beef anyone?) and all three wound up frustrated because none of them could understand the other.

That is a little peak at what will be happening. Blood in the streets my friends.

The solution? Lead poisoning.

Load up on .223 and .308.

Catman
10:10am • #96

"First off, @ MG... opening up resources to exploitation only delays the inevitable. And as a life-long resident of the Pacific Northwest, I speak for a great many people up here when I say keep your chainsaws and oil rigs out of my back yard and off my coast. The forests are just now starting to recover, it's taken nearly 20 years since the spotted owl issue. And lord knows we don't need offshore rigs making a mess of the already stressed Pacific. Instead of finding more resources, we need to stop our wastefulness."

 

Hey, I've got a great idea based upon your post - my State produces vegetables & wheat.

We could just reciprocate: no oil for us, no food for you. Trading in food for your State "just delays the inevitable" which would be of course, starvation. And that would solve the problem of too many people no?

lol

MG
10:10am • #97

Here are my questions:

Why is Bank of America buying Countrywide?   Is it possible that BofA execs have underestimated the dire striats Countrywide's borrowers might be in.

Will this put my BofA CD deposit in jeopardy?  It pays 2.8% interest (with minium $5000 deposit) but requires 7 day notice before I can make a withdrawl.   Should I be concerned?

What about Money Market accounts are they safe?

And my 401K account,  invested in a top rated bond fund, that in turn is invested in FNMA,  and other morgatage backed securities,  Is that safe? 

We all know its important to save, but just where should we be putting out savings?

I'm a California renter, no debt, 20 yrs from retirement.

Advice/answers are welcome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kim
11:03am • #98

MIKE,

  YOU SAY...HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF??!! ''FROM THE HALLS OF MONTEZUMA'' TO THE SHORES OF TRIPOLI!!! THE ARABS TRIED US MANY TIMES IN HISTORY,WHERE DID GET THEM?? NO WHERE!! MY FATHER WAS A WWII MARINE AND HE WAS A PROUD AMERICAN MUCH LIKE HIS FATHER BEFORE HIM AND MILLIONS OF AMERICANS BEFORE THEM,WHO HAVE SHED THEIR BLOOD ON THIS LAND OF FREEDOM... AMERICA IS A STRONG FUNDIMENTAL COUNTRY.

LETS GO BACK TO THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION AS WELL AS THE WAR BETWEEN THE STATES.NO ONE SUFFERED MORE THAN THESE GENERATIONS BEFORE US.THE SOUTH HAD IT MUCH MORE WORSE THAN  ANYTHING THAT 1929 RESULTED IN., READ;(TOO AFRAID TO CRY) THE ANTIETAM CAMPAIGN...OR ANY OTHER WAR. MOST AMERICANS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE ANTIETAM IS! IT TOOK 100 YEARS OF RECONSTRUCTION,BUT AMERICA CAME OUT AND ROSE ABOVE THE HELL.

BY THE WAY,I AM A REAL ESTATE AGENT IN THE NORTH EAST AND I AM HAVING ONE OF MY BEST YEARS EVER! IF PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE ALL THE PESSIMISM'S,THEY WILL BE THE ONES WHO CHOSE TO GO IN A NEGATIVE DIRECTION.

 

Marty
11:05am • #99

Hi Kim:

The safest Money Markets are the ones that loan only to the US Treasury, such as:

Vanguard US Treasury Money Market Fund VMPXX, &

T. Rowe Price has another one: US Treasury Money Market Mutual Fund, PRTXX

Fidelity has one, but you need $10k to get in.

With T. Rowe Price, you can get in with an automatic account builder of $50 each month.

As far as your 401k - try to change out of it into any fund that has the words "Stable Value" in it. These are high-grade corporate bonds that are safer than Ginny-Maes or FreddieMacs. Should read your prospectus - look for the word "Holdings" to see where the fund invests.

I would get out of BofA asap when your CDs mature. I don't know what State you're in but in CA, NM, AZ, NV, OR: Bank of the West and Union Bank of California are very safe.

 

I have investments in each of the funds I recommended above. Suze Orman is a great advisor.

 

 

MG
11:16am • #100

Great Post and the most important point is basically that we're all in this together.  Not just Florida and the United States but the entire globe.  If we pay attention to the lessons of the collapse of our economy and  man made concepts of money, property and government then it might illuminate the path for mankind to take out of the collapse of REAL THINGS in our life that we actually need to survive, say, the ecosystem that sustains us.   Neither an economy, oil, money, "property" or asset managers matter all that much when there's no clean water.  What's your next breath of air worth?

Mankind is at a crossroads and all generations will eventually have to see beyond the unsustainable fabric of the lives we are currently living.  From what I figure, either we'll realize we're all in this together and unify to adapt and prevail against the growth pains of this century or there's going to be resource wars, hoarding, selfishness and zero sum games.  Then, there will be far fewer of us that will eventually have to evolve and adapt anyway.  The "economy" is just one guage on our dashboard and it's not even the scariest in my opinion.  History and our nature dictates these inevitablilities - empires and complex systems that aren't sustainable will collapse.  The sun will continue to shine though.  I'll lift my head an feel it's warmth on my face.

 

 

Kurt
3:03pm • #101

When the banks fail completely, international banks will come to bail us out. I predict the Bank of China will be poised and ready to bail us all out.  I always thought the best tactical way to take control of a country was through its banking system.  We have already seen it happen with the Royal Bank of Scottland and Swiss banks merging or buying out small banks here in the US. I cringe to think about the long term implications of allowing other countries financial control.

Carol
7:08pm • #102

Wow, so much to say.

I used to be a Native Floridian 4 generations back.  I saw this bubble coming, florida had turned into such a shithole dependant on the next guy moving in to drive the real estate economy.  The job market there has been dependant on more people moving in for years (and bringing thier money of course)  Luckily for me I was able to see the writing on the wall and bail out right before the crash.  I ended up having to undercut the rest of the market by 25k but still made an 80k profit on the house I had baught in '02.

I totally agree with the outlook of the original article.  We are in for a world of shit.  Ive been a stoek market investor for the last 8 years and was making about 25% during that time, When I moved I decided to get my Insurance producers licenses (P&C Life and health) and am making decent money.  So you see Im not an idiot.

I believe so much that we are heading for a Depression and Weimar Republic style inflation that I decided to hedge my bets by taking a night job with (of all places) Wal-Mart.  Why would someone like me take a job like that?  Becuase I know that like in the great depression, If you had a job (ANY JOB) you could get by and possibly get ahead.  Wally world will be the last place to fold, and if it does all bets are off.

For all of those asking what to do with thier savings?  You would do well to buy some silver bullion coins Circa 1964 and before, as well as a little gold.  And for gods sake keep it in your house.  When the last depression hit the federal government confescated all the contents of lock boxes from failed banks.  when they finally released the contend none of them had any cash, gold or silver in them.... go figure.

Aaron
9:56pm • #103

>So you see Im not an idiot.<

Idiotic on many levels. Symantec, logical and pathetic-ego.

But, you are also right. Just let the ego go and you'll be so much happier!

Susan
11:05pm • #104

Ah....the motorized bicycle,home fruit and veggie gardening and the Tesla full electric car at the front door at only $109,000.00.

Necessity is the mother of invention and the higher and faster gas prices go up the quicker mother will wake up and create a new song..............

 

Home is a place to lay your head,not to profit from others bread.............lol

 

Ha depression,,,,,,,,,it's not even mid hurricane season yet

Ananda
11:07pm • #105
JUN
13
2008

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@ MG

Wow, comparing logging and oil rigs with food. That is completely not what my point was. If we're going to go down that path, the Great State of WA could keep all it's apples, pears, hops, barley, software and airplanes. But then what? It'd be pointless to do that. Besides, considering the coastal geography, drilling for oil is an unfounded idea anyway. There is a deep trench off the coast, any oil would have long ago been subducted under the the earth's crust. It's all just a moot argument, and I'm getting back on topic now.

All that is aside from the point, and apparently you missed the point. Trading veggies won't be feasible when diesel hits $7/gal and suddenly carrots go from $1.49/lb to $4.49/lb. The point isn't to stop interstate commerce and the like, the point is that further, more rapid  plundering of our resources solves nothing, leaving the pig picture put off by a few years. But then the few years pass, and the problem is bigger AND we've trashed the ANWAR or wherever. Those "solutions" are just bandaids. If we, as a society, are to get through the looming storm, we need to use less, use our resources more responsibly and stop being wasteful. You don't need a new cell phone every 6 months. You don't need a new TV if your current one works fine and meets your needs. No need to replace your car just because it's not a late model anymore. No need for a bigger house because you have too much stuff... downsize.

That's it in a nutshell: downsize.

Thorax O'Tool
1:10am • #106
JUN
14
2008

Either mass liquidation to the point of total economic colapse, or rapidly inflation will be the result of this mess.  IMHO inflation is the lesser evil.  In a complete collapse chaos would ensue.  Get ready for a higher cost of living and lower real wages.  The power of real money (Silver and Gold coin) will once again become evident.

8:01am • #107
I live on the 'treasure coast' in Florida. I purchased my home for 66k in the late 80's. It was alot of money then. I watched as my neighborhood became much more populous. Now I also own a vacation home north of the mason/dixon line. Both of my homes add up to less than 3k square feet living area. When everyone was spending I was saving for my vacation home. I kept my 4 cyl. car while neighbors purchased 2nd and 3rd cars or traded for new, bigger ones. I saved while they put in pools and purchased investment properties. I saved while they had another child or married a materialistic spouse. I fixed my own car while they got raped by the mechanic who got raped by the lawyer. I told quite a few materialistic girl friends to take a hike when they demanded 'things'... I washed my own car and painted my own house. I changed my own oil and did many of my own home repairs. I used a small scooter for local errands. I have only a 911 (free) cell phone and dial up and only buy crt tv's. I hardly ever use AC or heat. I hardly ever eat out and while they fritter away their money in restaraunts and bars. And they wonder why things are bad. Now they look at me with hate and envy when I leave town when the heat hits S. Fla and the cold hits the north east... Now there is less traffic on the roads. THere are less suv's and pollution. People who purchased big homes they didn't need are feeling the pain. More people are busy working and don't have the time or energy to give me a hard time over nonsense. People are downsizing, recycling and keeping their old cars instead of buying new ones. I've yet to see what the problem is.. We could have (already) had cars that get 100 miles (plus) a gallon already. But people are (were?) greedy and spoiled and wanted to sit higher (and look down their nose at me in my 4 cyl) and have more (protection?). So, there was not enough demand for the higher mileage vehicles. I was raised by depression era people. I learned to save in the good times because things change.. (I went to country wide in 06 for a loan for my vacation home. I had a 50% down payment and my primary home is paid off. They told me they don't do vacation homes. I guess they were too busy doing loans for people who did nothing to deserve them?)
Arthur Spooner
2:46pm • #108

Ok so what's some good advise for a 24 year old living at home with 50k in the bank and absolutely no debt???

 

Wouldn't it be wise to exchange my money and move to a different country???

Greg
5:11pm • #109
JUN
15
2008

Greg, you may want to consider removing most of that $ from the bank and buying silver/gold coins and keep them close by. And in the event of a complete meltdown, even gold and silver may not produce the wealth retention you are seeking, so please let that be a caveat for you.

I know this may be a hard concept for anyone to grasp, but when you deposit money into a bank you are actually transferring title to that money over to the bank. Consequently FDIC insurance, which claims to insure deposits up to $100k, does NOT insure YOU, the depositor, but rather the title holder of the deposit. So, if the bank goes belly up you cannot count on being insured against loss. The one and only way to guarantee against loss of that money is to have it in writing that you are specifically the title holder of that money and that needs to come from the bank president or someone authorized to sign.

We have been told so many lies and have been so completely deceived about how things really work in this country that it is going to be a real shock to the majority when the truth comes out.

 

CJ
8:14am • #110
JUN
17
2008

When will people realize that things hardly happen by accident. Everything we are witnessing now  is a precursor of the collapse of the US economy , for the sole purpose of undermining the sovereinty of the USA. Do you ever wonder why immigration isnt enforced and our borders are a seemingly imaginary line? The dollar will be so worthless and things will be so bad that , we will accept the Amero(its already in the works) . The way of the world seems to be formations of continental governments ,like the EU and the African Union . The USA , Mexico, and Canada will become another continental superstate, a concept  that would never  be accepted under normal circumstances. I'm sure I might be considered a loon for saying this , but thats what I think is going down.  

Johnny in NJ
2:39am • #111
JUN
24
2008

I suggest going for the GAS WAR, what do we have to lose? Don't purchase Exxon or Mobil for 1 year, if the price of GAS does drop great, if not, inflation was going to hgappen anyway. Let's see if COKE had a great CEO. It's worth a try.

1:00pm • #112
JUL
01
2008

I can understand everyone's pain.  I loved this article and it's so true.  One of the things I did was cancel my membership to loopnet for a more affordable commercial real estate listing site and joined BuilderBrokerNetwork.com for only $59.99.  Basically, the company I work for stop paying for my marketing because things are getting tight so I had to readjust and luckily I found BuilderBrokerNetwork.com

1:51pm • #113

Thanks,  Great Info.

5:23pm • #114
JUL
13
2008

I can't imagine a more depressing post to have read on my sleepless night.  I was coming to ActiveRain because I am so worried about my business.  While I agree with some points you've made, a lot of the doom and gloom is just pessimism.  Isn't there a bright side????  I've heard the comparison to Rome more than once, and I think it is apt in some ways.  I just didn't want to *read* this tonight :(

2:17am • #115
5 Featured Posts

THis is just the truth lined up in an organized format to be read by all. The issues with the banks are not overstated here, if anything, its understated.

As I have said in many of my posts here on Active Rain, the banks are not in charge anymore. These assets were sold long ago to who knows where, and they can't just write off these debt instuments without making up the difference out of pocket. So they continue to wait hoping things will get better, and of course, the inventory builds, and the only things selling are the foreclosures, so down the spiral we fall.

This is a ride to an unprecedented bottom. We should all admit it, we have no clue where this is going, but using your house like an ATM to finance your way out of it will no longer be an option.

 

C ya.........Great Post...

12:52pm • #116

People. you need to get right with Christ RIGHT NOW!, before it's too late. There are plenty of sites online with EXCELLENT commentaries and analysis on bible prophecy and the end of the age that is now upon us.

Please read and study bible prophecy. The patterns, similes, typologies and dress reheasal analogies in that book will reveal themselves to you, if you just devote yourself to study.

Don't risk losing the eternal life Christ has promised - Please

It's the end of the age - Study your bible!
11:00pm • #117
JUL
25
2008

What a bold article.  I think that someone needed to say it.  There are still lots of hopeful people out there who believe the market is starting to stabilize.  I have been watching Florida real estate on a site called property maps.  It shows all the homes that are for sale as well as foreclosures and it seems as though investors are starting to buy up more foreclosures.  Hopefully that shows that the market is on its way up.

Carrie T
12:09pm • #118
AUG
18
2008

Very interesting post. I agree that banks might not been doing enough. I think that the states need to be more involved to solve the crisis. For example, in NC, lenders are required to inform the state why is beneficial for the borrower to accept the offered loan. Also, the state now requires the bank to inform the state 45 days in advance before evicting someone due to a foreclosure. This will aloow the state to act as a mediator and also to verify that the loan received by the borrower followed the law.

Jay Skinner

 

8:33am • #119

Wow!  Very interesting & hostile at some times.  What is the deal with blaming boomers, gen-x, and gen-y? Seems the banks and government are getting just what they want fighting amongst ourselves so we don't pay attention to what is really going on. Reminds me of the people who to this day keep saying well your from the north or your from the south (I think that has to with the Civil War).  Let it go. I think a lot has to do with the lack of jobs especially manufacturing jobs in my area anyway.  The cost of running business in this country has also skyrocketed i.e. workman's comp insurance or any insurance for that matter, rents, utilities, and on and on.  Then you also have everybody suingeach other trying to make the big score (ever see those commercials?).  I truly think everybody wants to work and succeed.  How do you manage on $7 or $8 dollars an hour.  Even at that rate everybody is competing for the jobs that are available.  I have been working with some young buyers with good jobs and they are disgusted that at $300,000.00-$400,000.00 they can't find the home they want and believe me they aren't reaching for the sky not to mention what their monthly bills they would be facing. I just think if all the jobs keep going overseas those countries are the ones who will succeed until costs rise to were it is not profitable to be in that country. Then where do you go to another? As far as technology nobody can argue we have not made great strides but if nobody has money or can't get loans how exactly does that help?

5:24pm • #120
AUG
23
2008

This is a well-written, honest and yes, a bit depressing article.  This country is in a bit of a mess right now, some areas worse than others.  I am fortunate that I live and work in one of the areas that is holding up more due to the proximity to New York.  Home sale prices have dropped and sales have slow, that is clear, however, the stories I hear on this post and others are way worse that I have seen. 

>>>This is a ride to an unprecedented bottom. We should all admit it, we have no clue where this is going, but using your house like an ATM to finance your way out of it will no longer be an option.

Mike, you got that right!

8:19pm • #121
AUG
31
2008

"Unfortunately, banks are not making a realistic effort to address the crisis.  That may be because they cannot"

Sometimes the damage is so great that it cant be fixed.

11:56pm • #122
SEP
02
2008

"Sometimes the damage is so great that it cant be fixed."

The KC Fed president said that banks should be allowed to fail. He may think the same thing.

11:21am • #123
NOV
26

WOW! This is exactly what is happening right now. Scary stuff! Im happy I know the Lord and know how to work!

Tara Parker
6:17pm • #124
NOV
30

Wow lot of posts on this blog. We blog in the Orlando vacation rentals arena and that market has been hit very hard

Susan White
10:49am • #125

Wow with a post like this it is easy to see why you have so many readers.

Thumbs up

9:51pm • #126
DEC
05

This post said it all, it is happening right now. I agree that banks are not doing enough to adress the crisis. I also think that they need to take out the restriction of 4 mortgages, since there are a lot of investots with good credit that want to buy but they can't because of bank restrictions.

Jay

5:14pm • #127

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Treasure Coast Real Estate Editor - Featuring Julie Gaumond, REALTORĀ® -

Stuart, FL

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Keller Williams of the Treasure Coast

Address: 819 Federal Highway, Stuart, FL, 34994

Office Phone: (772) 370-7999

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Initially created by real estate expert Mike Morgan, the Treasure Coast Real Estate Blog provides a wealth of information about homes, businesses, things to do, restaurants and general information about the Treasure Coast from Palm Beach County to Martin County, St. Lucie County and Indian River County. Julie Gaumond, Mike's former assistant is now carrying the ball dealing directly with clients, while Mike continues to serve as a consultant and contributor the the blog. Mike has been published and quotes in the Wall Street Journal, Barrons, New York Times, Business Week and hundreds of other newspapers, magazines, blogs and TV appearances.


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