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#1 Reason I'll QUIT Zillow Mortgage

It's crap like this...

Rating: 1 / 5
Comment: I asked for conforming quote, got sent jumbo quote with huge fees. I even specifically noted the request in the 'notes' section due to the newly raised conforming loan limits. If a lender cannot start off paying attention to the customer's needs there's no reason to go further.
Reviewer: srg418

I've quoted less than 200 people on Zillow Mortgage. All local who I could meet personally.

So, what did I do to deserve this ugly rating?

Those in the Biz know instantly. I picked a day where Jumbo Mortgage Rates were low. He asked for a $607,000 Conforming Jumbo, and I quoted him exactly that.

He has issues with two things here.

Jumbo Loans. Sorry Mr. ZQ-FKRSMJG, you are wrong. You think your $607,000 loan is now under the conforming limit ($417,000 or less)? It isn't. Surprised? You are now what is called a Conforming Jumbo. You are misinformed.
My HUGE Fees. I quoted you my standard fees. Check the APR. Hardly HUGE fees. Yes, I could put those into the rate and quoted you No Fees. You didn't ask for a NO Fee Loan did you?

Had Mr. ZQ-FKRSMJG emailed me or called me, I could easily explain the mechanics of the above. He didn't. Instead he gave me the lowest rating possible.

Client Education is part of what every good loan officer does. I can live with the fact he doesn't get it. I'm thick skinned. I can handle rejection. I'm honest and ethical. I don't bait and switch. I was a huge fan of the transparency of Zillow Mortgage Marketplace from the start.

But I'll quit Zillow Mortgage

because there's simply NO WAY for me to respond directly to him.

I can't respond to him directly. The best I can do is place a comment below his negative comment on my ratings page. How many borrowers will take the time to view that?

Please read :3 Reasons I'll keep trying Zillow Mortgage

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Posted by Mike Mueller on 06/09/2008 11:35 AM

Comments (27)

zillow mortgage marketplace

Originally posted at: Mike Mueller, Social Media.ist: #1 Reason I'll QUIT Zillow Mortgage

Post is included in group: Zillow Mortgage Marketplace

27 Comments on #1 Reason I'll QUIT Zillow Mortgage

JUN

2008

Yes you should be able to answer back, that is not fair!!

I won't play in the Zillow pool either. And my prediction is that most Mortgage Professionals who are still playing the rate quote game at ZMM will eventually get burned and quit leaving just the rate quote schlackies. IMO Mr. ZQ-FKRSMJG and folks like him/her will wind up getting just what they deserve, an unprofessional mortgage person who just happened to QUOTE the lowest rate.

Zillow Mortgage Market place has nothing to do with service or what Mortgage Professionals do best, as you've pointed out here, Mike: education.

You are showing why it's dangerous for a Mortgage Professional's reputation when any dope can slander you on the internet and you're left to defend yourself against an unknown person.

Zillow had good intentions...but I won't go there. I offer highly competitive rates, however I am opposed to working with clients who are just into "rate shopping". I want to provide a higher level of service, as I'm sure you do too. Attracting "rate shoppers" doesn't allow that. Let' them go to Zillow, Lending Tree or Bank Rate...odds are, they'll get burned and on their next transaction seek out a Mortgage Professional.

BTW Karen Dies (www.mortgagegirlfriends.com --I think) recently applied for a Zillow Mortgage LO profile using a dummy social security number...guess what, she was accepted. She forwarded this info to the powers that be at Zillow. Kind of makes you wonder why we paid $25 for a background check.

Mike - This is quite a shame. Here in Pa, there were rumors of a fellow lender purposely going in and downrating a bunch of us. You'll have that and I can certainly understand you and Rhonda's concerns here. Perhaps this will lead Zillow to modify their system so some sort of feedback from you can be made ...

I think any system that allows you to rate an individual needs to have a response section. Ebay does it and it helps. I do read the negative reviews on there AS WELL AS what the other party says. People want to be able to rate people, but not have any consequences for those actions.

You can't help that they guy doesn't understand how lending works, but I'm sure if you had been able to explain the new jumbo rules that he would have understood.

Frustrating!

Hi Mike, it's David G from Zillow.com,

I've deleted the review. Borrowers on Zillow can only rate lenders that they've worked with but I must also say that I thought your response to the review was excellent. We make it clear to borrowers that we don't want them reviewing quotes. I hope that this doesn't happen again but if it does, please click "flag content" below the review and we'll remove it.

@Melina - Zillow's review system does allow lenders to respond to reviews from borrowers.

@Rhonda -

I am obviously biased but I'd argue that the ability for borrowers on Zillow to compare quotes from competing lenders and to easily get a second opinion from other mortgage professionals actually offers borrowers an education they can't get elsewhere. And there's also obviously nothing stopping an L/O from educating a borrower who contacts them via Zillow. The default loan request form on Zillow actually assumes that the bortrower is "not sure" about the mortgage product they need; which should signal a

Karen Dies did apply using an SSN that came back from our 3rd party confirmation service without a conclusive match (and more importantly, without a mismatch.) There are several reasons that a FICO-based identity check can be inconclusive and in these rare cases we attempt to confirm the applicant's ID using the information from the credit card that they used to apply as a lender. This credit card process allowed us to conclusively confirm Karen's identity. I hope that that clears that up; Karen should have these details.

@Vickie - the Zillow mortgage system does allow responses from lenders who are reviewed.

Hey Mike, I would not have figured out what was wrong without you pointing it out but that is just crazy. Wow. Something tells me that you will be just find without Zillow Mortgage. :)

Vickie - It isn't fair, and that's why I was steamed when I was "rated".

Rhonda - I want to believe in the good in people, I want to believe in Rainbows. And I want to believe that every borrower will take the time to learn and understand the mortgage business enough to make intelligent informed decisions.

Jason - I believe it. There are slimeballs everywhere. Like competing Agents flagging Craigslist property ads of their competitors so they come down quickly.

Melina - They do. My response is right under his text in my rating section. The problem is that most borrowers will never get past that little graphic. (That's a lot like the points here)

David G - Responsive as ever! Thanks!
The same guy, nailed all the other Lenders who also quoted him.
They all wrote almost the same thing I did.
You don't have to fix theirs

http://www.zillow.com/profile/Ian-McGibben
http://www.zillow.com/profile/regalonlinemortgage
http://www.zillow.com/profile/Yourloanfriend
http://www.zillow.com/profile/Seacoast-Equities
http://www.zillow.com/profile/glaksla

Stephanie - I so want Zillow Mortgage to work (see reply to Rhonda above). I really do!

That sucks! Unfortunately, there are too many people in the world who would rather jump to a quick judgment that investigate a little further. I wonder if these judgemental people ever take the time to consider that people's entire careers could be on the line.

Just another example of why Zillow should can the ratings system for LOs. The real estate agents aren't rated, so why are the LOs?

Mike... bingo... hence another reason why I didn't care for the system. You have loan officers that bait and switch and you have uneducated shoppers... I want someone serious that will listen to me educating them. I just got two referrals from a realtor today. One also shopped with B of A who told me that she was getting a no fee loan.... who gave her a commitment with no GFE..... my rate was much lower, but we couldn't establish what fees were being paid for. But since I had no fees... and just title left. I could still have beaten them out by 1/8%... but I would be assuming, since they gave her no GFE... and a big bank? My other client had spoken to PHH and Wells.... two completely different GFE's on two different programs... it's getting sad out there.

Then you have a client like yours, who thinks they know it all.... have fun with the Zillow quotes. Hey Mike... just curious.. you said you have given out 200 quotes? How many have you originate? Closed? thanks

jeff belonger

JUN

2008

Mike too bad, and until Zillow gets the prospects to expose themselves more fully name, email, phone they are free to do what they want ignorant or not. I still say that in order for the program to work it has to benefit all parties, and right now I dont see the benefit to Loan officers. These are not leads they are quote requests and in my opinion there is a big difference. Zillow introduced this program at the right time when most LO's were dying for leads and this looked like a potential quick fix. Bottom line is that there is no easy fix for any of us as loan officers. The time is now to get back to marketing 101 and doing whats uncomfortable.

Lisa - Very true.

Lewis - Maybe instead of canning it, they can adapt. They're adapting all the time. What would eBay be like if they canned their feedback system?

Jeff - In my perfect world (yes, I'm a dreamer) I want ZMM to work. I want to compete with another lender for a borrower on a level playing field. How many have I closed? I'm working on a report of my findings but here's a quick look at the Mike Mueller Scoreboard Quotes: 194, Direct Responses: 1 Closed Loans: 0

Compare that to the guy on the top of the leader board, http://www.zillow.com/profile/Integrity-Mortgage with 1,382 quotes.

"Mortgage Services" - If Zillow did that, no one would request. Instead of looking at it like that, maybe ZMM allows me to put my good word out there to countless people for free. Yes, that quote request is actually a loan officer in disguise. Yes, that guy is never going to call me. But someone, somewhere, who really happens to need a loan, may happen upon my quotes and decide to give me a call. See, I'm a dreamer!

Mike I have to disagree that no one responds if you asked for more information. Take all of the other internet lead generation companies out there: Leadpoint, lowers my bills, Zip Search are a few who get people to respond in huge numbers, and they sell the data 4 times for 25 bucks a shot. Dont get me wrong I think Zillow is on the right track with lender ratings and the volume of requests they are generating, but if the borrower doesnt volunteer more info you can hire someone for minimum wage to generate quotes and hope you get called. All you have to do is look at the volume of quotes some guys are putting out on Zillow (in the 1,000's) with little of no feedback.

Don Polletta

The more I read and the more I experience the less impressed I am with the Zillow Mortgage Marketplace. Sure the idea is great, but... LO's are giving customers quote after quote of trash. Either from rates that are clearly bait and switch, or that do not apply to the customers request or needs. Neither is in the customers best interest. I read posts like this and see I'm not the only mortgage professional not feeling the love. I've submitted a fair number of quotes, sometimes with the most competitve price. No calls, no emails, no nothing. I'm pretty sure I should have atleast heard something. In the real/regular world I don't quote 50 people and not get anything in return. My profile is not blank, I've got a picture, testimonials from real world transactions, etc. I guess I should say I've gotten something for all this effort, as of yesterday I had had 1 click through from my Zillow profile to my website... To read that someone submitted a false social and got approved makes me really wonder what that $25 was for, and what Zillow is actually doing to vet the mortgage professionals. As a potential borrower I would not be happy.

I agree with Don in the past quote, Zillow is on to something here, the concept is great. Execution is missing here.

JUN

2008

My .02 again... since David G. seeks these threads out. Hey, I don't blame him for defending your little baby.... but let's be very realistic here. I have talked to several big time loan officers, that have even tried Zillow. For the most part, they have agreed with me. But they don't come in here and speak their true feelings, because they are playing the political role. They also want to be on Zillow's good side.

So..... where does that leave us? Yes, Zillow is very cheap... yes, so many can do 100's to 1,000's of quotes. But those that quote in the 1,000's are typically the loan officer that needs these lead genrators... these online services.

In regards to feedback Mr. Gibbons... one reason why this service won't rise above the rest... an initial e-mail with the client or a few back and forth, won't do the consumer justice. I NEED to speak to my client in the first go around. This is where a very good to great loan officer will set themselves apart from the average Joe Smoe. There are important questions that I need to ask.... and I want my client to have a good faith in hand. Not some interest with their fees. Why? It also shows me if the loan officer in question knows how to even fill one of these out. Or if they are lite on their escrow estimates. This allows me to also discredit the other loan officer. This is my tool... not some rate quote, and when you can't ask the consumer in the beginning, some important questions.

Overall, what am I suppose to do? Give them the lowest rate, just to get them to call me. That is what many loan officers do. And I just won't be a part of that type of atmosphere. I really don't think Zillow has too much more to offer than other sites such as these. The average consumer today needs a voice, not an e-mail. And I will stand by this... most loan officers that will do this for over a month or two, are the ones that need services like this. They only know how to get business through lead generators. And most loan officers that I know that get most of their business this way.... 80% of their business this way, will always bait and switch someone at some point... I know... I have drinks with them. I use to compete against them throughout the states.... and I have seen it on here, some of the low ball quotes.

jeff belonger

PS.... Mike... I agree with Rhonda's comment also..... I think it comes down to us street loan officers vs the in-house, behind the desk loan officer... that needs leads given to them. Don't get me wrong, I know a few of them that are like this, who are very good loan officers... but it's the masses that I am referring to. Many of them, above 80% in my opinion, are great with rate shoppers. Because as Rhonda pointed out, they are great at giving the lowest rates. But they bring nothing else to the table... no other good service. The name I use for them? Order takers.... anyone can take an app. and quote a rate. But if things go negative, they are the first to run for the hills. Even if nothing does go wrong, is that loan officer good enough to offer the proper services, educating the consumer, giving expert options and or opinions? I would bet not...

On another note... think about it.... not matter how this takes place, it helps Zillow even more so on the internet. It helps their searches, just as their other services. This doesn't necessarily help the consumer. Or could be in the best interest of the consumer. But more clicks does help Zillow.... think about the price? Why is it so cheap? Ah, another agenda possibly? A game play? My guess? Yes,.....

jeff belonger

Jeff you are right on there......the rates that are quoted are insane and no way can be true and cheap barrier to entry makes this a long short, might as well buy old internet leads

I would love to see Zillow Mortgage work and I think David G and Zillow can make it work. I'm just not big on diving in with the current system... and although I believe I have some of the best rate/cost available in the Seattle market--I think service is more important and I'm not one to play "the rate game". I would rather work with clients who are more interested in the total mortgage package than getting a low "rate quote". Especially in this market when rates are changing 2-4 times a day!

In response to Jeff (or in agreement with) Belonger, ZMP is a good place for people who need to underquote and hopefully they do deliver...consumers may get what they pay for. I'm hesitant to say these things because it may make me appear as though my rates/costs are out of the market (when they are not). However, for the new LO or one who does not have returning clients or referrals--ZMP may be a resource.

@DavidG I noticed that Karen Dies is promoting how LO's can make the most of Zillow mortgage...she's done a bit of a reversal. I don't "hang out" on her site...I just get her emails and the one on Zillow really caught my eye.

JUN

2008

@ Rhonda... yea, maybe I am a little more harsh in my comments and I respect that you don't want to talk negatively about Zillow mortgage. But what bothers me is that they talk about how superior the site is for the average consumer. And in my opinion, as we both have stated one way or another, they won't get great service (usually) with these rate quotes. And when I say usually, I am talking about 85% or more of those on it, only know how to quote.

And no, I would not think that your rates would be higher. I know exactly what you are talking about. The main issue is that the loan officer will quote just a tad better than you and I, just to get the deal... and then say, hey, I am not making much on this... I need more... and at the end, there is a good chance that their rate and or fees will be higher than ours. Or, because the loan officer quoted such a low rate, but never advised them to lock, that they could now blame the market and raise that rate accordiningly.

Overall, that is all a part of service. Besides a few other things.... you just won't get good service, in most instances. Just my honest opinion after 15 yrs in this business and because I have seen it with a lot of companies and loan officers. Especially those sweat shops that prey on services like this.

jeff belonger

Rhonda, Jeff, DavidG, et all - I love it when a post grabs so much attention from such smart and informed people like yourselves. I was going to respond here but my comment really is enough for a new post. Zillow Mortgage Market Place does cause us mortgage people to take sides doesn't it? I still look at it differently than most, (hence the reason for the new post) Love it guys! Keep up the conversation.

JUN

2008

Hey there...good stuff. I featured you in the Mortgage Pro Week In Review.

TRACKBACK:

Zillow Mortgage Must Verify Consumers To Become A Marketplace

Mike Mueller is leaving the Zillow Mortgage Marketplace. A poor consumer performance review drove him to do just that.

JUN

2008

Mike,

This is one of the same reasons I have stood against Zillow's mortgage site. You are supposed to offer a solid number based on shaky information and they get to rate you for it??? Why can't the lenders rate the "potential borrowers?"

Recently, one of Zillows people posted to my blog saying that these "borrowers" can not rate you simply based on a quote. So are you telling me that you were rated based solely on a quote???

JUL

2008

Mike: Sorry to hear that. I would consider leaving as well if I were slandered like that. So far, that hasn't been the case at all. Besides, a customer can always weigh in with their opinion. That is their right. it doesn't have to be on ZMM. It could be anywhere. As hard as we try to please our client, we occasionally are going to get a distasteful review. I plan on continuing but hope not to endure what you did! Take care.

Paul