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The Fish Whisperer: Catch and Release is No Way to Land Clients

My readers know I have confessed to having a bad case of COMMENT ADDICTION. But when a post inspires an outsider to comment, we are afforded the RARE OPPORTUNITY of getting inside the head of the very person for whom the blog tolls.

Could there be more valuable insight than this about how the world sees our industry?

We all had a great discussion about walking that very thin line between having GOOD JUDGEMENT, and simply being JUDGEMENTAL over on my last post.

Out of the blue, this anonymous comment appeared on that post:

Ring Ring

Them: "Home Town Realty can I help you"

Me: "Yes Im curious about the house on main street"

Them:"Are you pre apprroved?"

Me:"Huh"

Them:"Are you pre approved,.... here is a number for a guy I know , call him first."

End of Conversation every time

This one stopped me in my tracks. All the blogging in the world, all the brilliant marketing ideas, the best website money can buy.....and it comes down to this?

WOW. Talk about a waste of effort. Talk about falling off the horse before you're even out of the starting gate.

Now you might think as a mortgage broker I would be thrilled with this. It supports my theory that if things continue the way they are now, Realtors will be bringing donuts and flyers into mortgage broker offices, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

But I already know that this discouraging conversation will not bring this potential buyer into ANY mortgage office. This guy is trying to establish a connection with a professional to help him buy a house. It is only DISGUISED as an attempt to get information about a house.

Brian Brady tells us that if you are fishing for borrowers as a mortgage broker, RATES are THE BAIT. If you are fishing for buyers as a Realtor, HOUSES are THE BAIT.

I don't know about you, but I'm not into CATCH and RELEASE fishing. I want to LAND ONE and every little nibble presents an opportunity.

Maybe we should all learn to become FISH WHISPERERS.

My theory is this: there are very FEW people who call you because they want THAT HOUSE or THE LOWEST RATE (I will admit there are some).

But most people frame the conversation around rates and houses, because they have no OTHER idea how you go about interviewing, selecting, and making a connection with an agent.

You will probably never pick up the phone and hear this:

"Hello. I am interested in buying a house, and don't know where to start. Please pay attention to me. Talk this through with me. Help me understand the process, and feel confident with something that seems overwheming. Put me in a comfort zone. I want to trust you. I want you to lead the way. I want you to show me how. Give me confidence.

If you do, then I will not make the next call to the next agent. I may have called you about a house, but I don't REALLY want that house. I really want an agent, but I don't know of any other way to connect with you except by asking about this house. Can you help me?"

"Oh yeah, and I'm not going to call "your guy". It was scary enough making this call, and you want me to call some mortgage broker type and give them my personal information? Not gonna happen."

And with that, the fish disappears into the cool dark waters, never to be seen again.

Learn to be a fish whisperer.

Written by Janet Guilbault, Mortgage Lending Expert Based Out of the San Francisco Bay Area

Subscribe and you won't miss my NEXT POST: Ten Things You Would NEVER GUESS That Will Kill Your Chances of a Mortgage Approval

Posted by Janet Guilbault California Mortgage Banker/Broker on 06/13/2008 11:49 AM

Comments (51)

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51 Comments on The Fish Whisperer: Catch and Release is No Way to Land Clients

JUN

2008

Janet - At the risk of feeding your comment addiction:) I want to thank you for this post. Your well-crafted analogy is dead-on. Customers often give us a chance to convert them to clients. Recognizing and taking advantage of these opportunities is critical to success.

Erik: What stuck me about this comment was how it appeared on a post about Realtors ignoring clients because of youth, dress, etc, When I read between the lines, I came up with this:

"Yeah, and I can't even convince a Realtor to have a conversation with me!"

In a market where there are more first time buyers than ever, we should recognize that attempts to connect with professionals are not skills that are developed right away and often arrive disguised.

Opportunites missed cost us dearly when we have so much invested in actually getting one of these calls

Janet - Well put. This sort of thing happened to me the other day.

I received a call on an ad I placed and the client was wandering about getting a loan for the down payment, it actually is a very long story, it is for a commercial loan, a house I have listed sits in a commercial area, anyway, I suggested she call "my mortgage" person and then get back to me.

But, luckily before the conversation ended I realized how lame and lazy I was being and told the client I would actually get the information she was looking for my self and then call her back.

So, I now have her name and phone number!!

I am glad you wrote this article however, great reminder to us agents on how to catch and real them in, so to speak.

Terrie

Hey Terrie:

I think there are several points to be learned from this comment. I can't tell you the number of times a Realtor has called me to say " This person called me and I told her to call you. Be expecting the call. Her name is Nancy"

"Nancy" never calls, of course, and both of us lose out on an opportunity.

Sure, we want pre-qualified clients. But Realtors should understand that they have the sizzle (the house) and use it to your advantage. We mortgage brokers must get pretty personal with people about a pretty dry subject.

They feel much better coming to us when they feel a little love from the Realtor.

Interesting post. Watch out wishing for donuts, as there might be more than one can handle before they get stale :-)

B & C: Wishing for fresh strawberries and a bottle of pinot girgio. This, and you are my Realtor friend for life.

If, as you wrote, buyers are really looking for an agent to help them, buyer's agency would have flourished, dual agency would be "swimming with the fishes" and I wouldn't need to put images of homes for sale on my web sites. Not so.

The Internet has made the consumer believe that they don't need agents to find homes, because they don't. Finding the home is the easy part, but home buyers have to start there because they need to satisfy their need to know "what's out there".

As for lenders, IMO, the only thing a consumer cares about is the mortgage payment, which is rate sensitive. I know many lenders who don't quote rates because they know that it is meaningless without more information.

Fact is, if buyers could or knew enough about this very complicated matter of executing a Contract of Sale for real estate, they'd never use an agent, buyer's or seller's. They just don't know how. You won't hear that from them but it's true.

However, borrowing a lot of money is daunting to the consumer so the are more interested in shopping for lenders than for agents. Lenders have an advantage when it comes to first contact and have tried to convince the consumer that they need a lender first for years and are succeeding.

Janet - one further thought. When this occurs, I arrange to show the house. This allows me to get a meeting with the client and find out more information. During the meeting, I can discuss the process of buying a house and the importance of getting pre-qualifed. At the same time, I can answer questions that they may have and start to form a relationship. Sometimes, clients aren't really ready or able to buy. I really don't believe that this means I wasted time. Some will come back in a few months or years and others will listen, learn, and make the deal right then. Either way, I believe the investment is worth the time

Janet - I really like this blog and your analogy. Everyone has a dream and sometimes we are the dream makers we just need to learn everyone's "language" for what they really want.

You are so right sometimes you have to show them the house or talk to them before they are pre-approved

Lenn: I disagree (and you are probably thinking what the hell does she know...she is a mortgage broker)

I think people do want agents, and for way more than just executing the contract. While a seller can interview several different agents and decided which one they like, the buyer usually doesn't think to interview agents. Connection is random at best and usually made via some house for sale either on the internet, or from an ad, or a sign.

The chance that it is THE house that the person will buy seems slim to me. When these calls come, some agents never consider that the call just may be someone looking to connect. A better way would be to never believe they really want that house, and assume they are looking for an agent.

The Internet HAS taught people that they do not need a professional because they can do it themselves. I think this is pretty dangerous myself....

Joyce: I learned this way of thinking from being in the auto leasing business. What they really wanted was to talk to someone about leasing. What they did was call about a car.

As soon as I got this, I started getting more clients.

The internet is the internet, but conversation still needs to happen....belly to belly as they say.

Very clever, and a good point! It's not as if we all have so much business right now that we can afford to have an empty line, so to speak. It's a good reminder that buying homes can be a scary business, and it's our privilege to help people through the process in a confidence-inducing manner.

P.S. I, too, am addicted to comments!

Janet, Our business is all about the relationship. Trying to sell someone before a level of trust is built is just a waste of time. Blowing folks off during the first minute of a phone conversation is also a waste of time. Luckily for me, I LOVE to talk real estate with anyone at any time. When my phone rings and I answer I plan on being it for awhile. It is funny how much time and money we spend trying to get the phone the ring and then we don;t take advantage of the opportunity when it does.

Very good post Janet.

Janet,

There's a guy out there I've been turned onto named Ari Galper; I'm not trying to sell his stuff, but his approach is worth looking into (www.unlockthegame) and you can check it out for free on YouTube, as it's about searching for the truth of the initial contact, rather than Glengary Glenrossing your client before you even know a) if there's a sale to be made, or b) if you're a good fit.

With sales training being what it usually is, I have to keep in mind what a mentor agent told me once, about Real Estate being like dating. He said I wouldn't try half the things on another person we're trained to do if it were personal.

And I try to keep that in mind.

Thanks for the fishing analogy. Now I won't get any work done this Friday........thoughts of streams......

man, you just hit the nail on the head! I have been a buyer many times before becoming an agent and I am afraid to say that some agents just don't "get it". It is sad but true.

I agree with you, Janet inasmuch as the mentioned example is far too abrupt. There are times, however, where the "fish just stinks"; it's just not edible.

How does one find that out? A conversation, of course. I teach agents how to pre-qualify their own buyers and I think that's a good business practice. Here are a few questions real estate agents can ask:

1- How much were you planning on putting down on the home?

2- How much home do you want to buy? (subtract one from two= loan amount)

3- Use $8/thousand for the estimated PITI-

4- Multiply that number by 36 and ask if they can document that annual income.

It really is that simple. It takes about 3 minutes and makes you sound professional

What a super post..and some very great comments as well..I continue to learn on this forum, I love this place

Well, I for one, am very delighted that those half dozen folks that call me daily about specific homes for sale that they saw on my web site, because they ran into me, really wanted an agent and not, as they say, more information about the property about which they called.

I'm delighted becasue it means that the buyer who e-mails me with no phone number or other identifying information just wants "more information" about a listing that is showing 16 photos of the property, tax info, map, etc., because they really wanted to get to know an agent.

Fortunately, if they call, I can engage them in a friendly helpful conversation during which I convince them that they would be foolish not to use our services since we know the area, can help them with their needs and it doesn't cost them any additional money.

However, I can tell you true, that they did not call, or at least about 19 out of 20 of them call for information about specific homes, not an agent. The reason I get the calls in the first place is because one cannot search real estate information in my area without running into me.

I wish you were right.

Good advice Janet. People need to learn basic telephone skills. To blow someone off that quickly is no way to build a business.

Hi Janet,

My name is Manny Moumdjian with EZ CHOICE FINANCIAL. I would like to offer credit help to your clients that don't qualify even for "FHA". Please look at my website at: www.ezchoicefinancial.com I only work with realtor's and lender's clients. I am very loyal and I have a credit management process that helps consumers clean their credit the right way by having me assist them through the process with the proper credit education. I currently work with hundreds of realtors and lenders combined and if you search Credit Management Process on major search engines, I will be on the first page all the time!! Check us out, we are a major helping tool in this financial market!!

Regards,

Manny Moumdjian

JUN

2008

Janet, you're right on with this! When someone calls about a home (or a loan program) they're reaching out and saying "Help!" Once you answer their question, you should ask one of your own - a related question - along the lines of this: Yes, that house DOES have four bedrooms, is that how many you're looking for? Or Yes, that loan program is ideal for first time buyers, does this mean you're getting ready to buy your first home? This first call is no time to create obstacles!

Whoooooo..........you are so right. I'm sending this fishing story to my team. Floor calls or call from leads is never about A house, but "help, me... I am ready to buy and don't know what to do". A good agent or lender will know to lead them in to an appointment.

I'm a firm believer in the phone and only dripping them with emails after you have spoken to them

Loverly post...sometimes it is hard to sk for what you really want...or admit what you really need..or Heaven forbid...to ask for what you really do not know. Bait and catch is what we try to do with "Prompt Service/Proven Results" the switch part of the bait comes only to switch to a reliable lender so that they can really get what they really need.

S & D: I believe that the person calling does not even know that this is what he wants. But we all want someone to care, someone to believe, someone with whom we can connect. Maybe it is on a different level, but we still want this. We also want to be heard.

When that connection happens, when someone listens and cares, the "shopping around" stops.

Missy: I believe we sometimes get so focused on marketing, and the Internet, that we forget what to do when a real live person calls and wants to talk. It is much easier to answer an e-mail when you can think about your words and write, then re-write.

To be on the phone requires that the first goal is to capture their contact info. We cannot expect them to give this unless there is some kind of connection. That takes the ability for some warm up conversation.

I know these skills are not as exciting as SEO and other marketing techniques, but if you don't know how to warm up a conversation, you have wasted all those other skills.

Margaret: Those questions are absolutely perfect. Thank you so much for including those in your comments. Great ways to lead the conversation and show that you care about the person who called.

Everyone should have these by their phone in a script to remember. You must be a fabulous agent.

Manny: Thank you. I will look at your web site. Currently, I do my own credit repair....with a credit simulator and analyzer. Actually, I am pretty good at this because I have been fooling around with credit and credit reports for about 25 years.

I am not as good as you, I'll bet, but I understand the whole credit score gig better than most mortgage brokers.

Ah, Lenn, that last sentence is why I am so impressed with you. To get the point where I could make that same statement would spell success to me. I aspire to that, and await your formula. I would like to apply it to the mortgage business and to the Bay Area. Dedicate a post to me sometime, and tell me how.

If you have given them all of this info and they STILL contact you, I say that they are trying to connect. Yes, they were too afraid to leave contact info, but Lenn, they still reached out when all the info was there!

Agree, they called about the house. You give good bait, Lenn. Disagree that they are not (at some level) looking for an agent. I think your comment above proves this.

Brian: Great advice as always, and now a comment about the fish being stinky.

This is a subject for another post, but in a market like this where there are many, many fish in the sea (buyers a-plenty) knowing which ones to toss back is one of the skills that all of us should learn.

We could all probably tell a story at this point in time about a client with whom we wasted far too much time, just because we did not take those few minutes to learn how to throw one back that smelled funky.

Used to be even those rotten ones were worth keeping. Not any more.

Cristel: I also have been frustrated when I am the customer. Not with finding the info, which is easy, but with connecting on the phone.

What really gets me is when they don't even TRY to get me contact info. I never know if I should feel insulted or depressed...

Bryant, well, I am a big yakker myself. More than one coach has said I just give away too much info, and ask too many questions.

I can't help it!!!! I love talking on the phone, I love real estate, and I love finding out about people. The only thing that is better is writing about it all. Now you know why I love ActiveRain so much

Erik: So belly to belly works best for you? Talking on the phone works best for me because when I am belly to belly, I have far less control of my time. I like phone and e-mail.

What if they are not interested in the house?

Janet.....I loved your fish picture, of course. Just wondered if you read my blog about fishing being like real estate???? But of course I did not get as many responses as you. There is a time to ask if they are pre-qualled, but not with your first conversation over the phone. You need to connect and establish a relationship. I went on a listing appointment the other day. I usually expect to be there at least 1 hour. They had already spoken to another agent before me, which they had told me up front. At the end of my apponitment they shared with me that the other realtor did not seem like he wanted their business. He did not even walk through their home. The other realtor and myself gave them exactly the same price to list their home. What a coincidence! And at first they told me they did not think he gave them a fair price. Turns out they were not comfortable with him, not his price.

Roxanne Schilling, Realtor at Lake Tulloch

Excellent point! I kind of feel the same way with agents going for the buyer's agency....I've seen people write that they won't show a home to somebody until AFTER they've signed a buyer's agency agreement...

I thought what a waste of time! Who wants to commit to somebody that they don't know and have no idea if they are any good before they get a chance to get to know that person and to access their abilities.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

JUN

2008

Janet, Such a good post as always. I agree and disagree with what I have read. First, on the initial conversation with a potential buyer I do feel I establish a connection (I'm a talker) and then insist they talk to my favorite mortgage broker unless they are already pre-approved. Very few are and gas is too expensive to go down that road. I do not ask for a buyer agency agreement at the first appointment but do tell them I will very shortly; I prefer not to discuss commission but my gut tells me when I must.

I have had very intelligent buyers say right out that they did not know what they were doing in the home search. They may not have said that they needed a mother to guide them through it but I do think that in real estate, being of a certain age make us more believable. THEY may have felt like they needed hand-holding but I knew they were perfectly competent all along. I would sing the "I'm proud of you" Mr. Rogers song to all of my young buyers, as I do to my teens occasionally now, to their chagrin, but it is an easy sign of "you did well." Who doesn't need that?

Loved your "for whom the blog tolls" - wrote a paper on that bell in high school...

Janet ,Good post it's funny I hear this in my own office all the time. Not just new agents but experianced agents too. They some times feel their time is so valuable that they don't have time to connect to a customer that isn't prequalified. What the rub is , if the potential client is prequalified they probebly have a realtor allready and he's probably on vacation this week and they want to see houses until he gets back to sell them one.

It is so true. We really have to listen a lot more than talk...that old saying that we were given two ears and one mouth for a reason.

JUN

2008

Hey there...good stuff. I featured you in the Mortgage Pro Week In Review.

Of course you did Joey! This is outstanding Janet.

I had the best feeling as I read this knowing that I DO connect with those who 'just call about a house'. I get warm all over just hearing how the tone of their voice begins to relax once they realize the've just encountered someone with whom they can open up and ask real questions. I love giving reassurance and demystifying the process for them.

I found this one to be the best of articles to read! Thanks for the reminder. Let's me know I am doing my job the right way. I always look at each call as cry for help and information.

Way to go!

Very cool posting. There are a lot of knucklehead agents out there. A good way to see what works and what doesnt is listen to the chumps doing floor time at your office. The unsuccessful realtors do things like what you've mentioned. The successful ones understand that they are just providing a service to help people buy houses and real estate

I have a bit more about this on my blog at my web-site: <a href="http://www.santamonicarealestatesearch.com"> Santa Monica Real Estate
</a>

Great message, it pays to have a dialog to prevent cathc and release

That is just a case of a crazy agent. With some info he might have found the buyer to be a perfect candidate.

Great analogy. That brings me to my point in simple psycology. Customers unknowingly give away tells as a poker player might. The key is to be on the lookout for these signals. You cannot constantly be on the lookout if you are on the phone.

That is when your ears replace your eyes. The strongest trait anyone can possess when in this business( agent or loan officer) or any other business for that matter, is listening and then asking the right questions, not just asking questions. Why do you think Barbara Walters is such a successful anchor? She is not, she is a professional interviewer. She listens and then asks the questions to generate the responses she wants based on information provided by the person being interviewed. She just h appens to be on TV.

I think this post is wonderful and a necessity for everyone to read. The little things matter and you have to have your eyes and ears open and be ready to identify a signal.

The next time you get a call where the person is interested in the house, or a rate, or anything else, take the time to listen, and feel for every bite, you never know when you can catch the BIG FISH!

Wow, is that true. Inour busy lives I hear other agents in the office talking about how some one called in and the agent never hears from them again. Of course the Realtor never asked for contact info or offered something as basic as help! You know, what we do ? Help people find or sell homes! The same also holds true for open houses I cant believe how many agents don't hold onto sign-in sheets with all that contact info!

JUN

2008

I've had new clients give me their personal information over the telephone to forward to my lender and other preferred to call the lender directly. Regardless of the method, after I establish confidence as their agent, I immediately magnify the skills of my lender that I have had success with so our client can feel confident in their lender as well.

Catch and release is my language, thanks for speaking to me in a way even an old and slow fisherman can understand, you have taught me to listen better. Great job on your blog!!!

Amen - Rate is NOT bait. We cannot survive by playing the rate game because some other person will always say they have a better rate or the person sees a great rate on the Internet. No the person wants to connect with an individual who cares and takes the time to share information that will literally save them thousands of dollars.

JUN

2008

I have yet to see an article that more efficiently describes what we're supposed to be doing as realtors: provide support, information and guidance in a stressful process. This is exactly right, and just reminded me why I chose this profession. Thank you.

JUN

2008

Janet: Thank you so much for such an excellent post. You have made quite a few very valid points, and I have picked up some great ideas. Thank you so much for sharing.

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