My Zillow Beef, as requested

Great, valid points/arguments.  I would chime in but have other fish to fry, and I agree with your points anyway.

Hi Ed: Good post. Well thought out. I agree with your sentiments although I'm willing to give Zillow time to tweak their system. They seem willing to refine and tune up so I'm willing to see what happens for the rest of this year. Take care.

Paul

Ed, you've brought some terrific comparisons specifically on the feedback and accountability part.  Ebay makes money from transaction "fees" don't they?  Would Zillow have to get a piece of the pie to make it a profitable venture for them? 

I believe they will be bringing in some tweeks to their system over the next 3 months, heck what do they have to lose by trying to improve?  Experiment, see what happens if they require the borrower to be visible and not anonymous! 

Dave, Sara...why not, come on...give it a shot, see what happens!

Hi, it's David G from Zillow,

Ed, thanks for taking me up on my challenge. It helps to know what your actual concerns are. I'll try to address each point.

1. Zillow.com does not promise advice. Advice is your job, not ours. We do however promise to connect consumers to experts who can advise them and we do promise access to information. Zillow is certainly an information portal. This is the information age and RE pro's need top make peace with the fact that buyers and sellers are increasingly arming themselves with information before they reach out to a professional. The sales cycle in professional services is chaning for good. Consumers used to start out by finding a professional, then getting educated and then transacting. Now, they start with education, then they select a professional and then they transact. It's important for RE pros' to uinderstand this shift in consumer behavior. When you do, you will understand the role of the media in your industry; it's the same reason that new marketing tools, like blogs, are working so well. Like everything else on earth, real estate information is not 100% perfect (no matter what your source is.) The head-in-the-sand response to the fact that RE information isn't 100% perfect is to want to "protect" consumers from it. We would strongly disgaree with that approach. We believe that more access to more information is always better than less - even though some of that information may be imperfect. You're welcomer to disagree with that philosophy but you're in a shrinking minority. The fact that estimates of value are now ubiquitous content, found on many RE sites, is testament to the fact that they play an important role in a consumer's RE research and that the vast majority of RE pro's and consumers see value in this information. As a RE Pro, you're not supposed to find Zestimates useful. You're not the audience for Zestimate values but to fail to acknowledge their use to a consumer is a mistake. Publishers certainly have a responsibility to their audience when it comes to setting their expectations and pursuing accuracy in what they publish. I challenge you to find another website that publishes value estimates that takes that responsibility as seriously as Zillow does.
   
2. I don't claim that there's no difference between Zillow and the listings sites. Quite the opposite. Zillow invested heavily to attract a massive audience to our site. Unlike the pure-play listing sites, Zillow is not an listings arbitrage player. If you look at most listing sites you'll notice that they added no new value, no new content but rather merely used existing listings data, already available to consumers, to attract an audience who they then try to sell to the folks who supplied the listings info in the first place. Zillow is the opposite of this approach. We attracted more than 4M buyers and sellers a month to the site before we had a single listing on Zillow. Zestimates, the Mortgage Marketplace, Home Value Reports are just some of the value added content innovated by Zillow.com. We are nothing like the pure-play listings sites; Zillow is adding value for RE consumers, agents and mortgage brokers.
   
3. Ed, do your research on the mortgage marketplace. I hear your fears but trust me, they're largely unfounded. For the most part, the quotes are accurate and those that aren't stand out like a sore thumb, thanks to the transparency on Zillow. Loan requests and loan quotes are also far more detailed and accurate than you suggest. You should really check it out. Borrowers are getting great deals on Zillow and LO's are closing loans. It's working. Really well. Sorry to be blunt, but if you can't quote a rate an honor it an hour later, that's your problem, not Zillow's. Find another investor. We don't pretend to fix the inherent problems or complexities in the mortgage industry - and there are many - but we do put borrowers in the driver's seat like no other mortgage solution does.
   
4. You're also wrong about eBay. They actually recently realized that buyers reviews of sellers add no value and so they removed them from the site. Reviews on Zillow are certainly not "one-way" - just like on eBay, lenders on Zillow can respond to reviews from borrowers. Again, Ed, I encourage you to do your homework before jumping to conclusions.
5. See point 2 above. You entirely misunderstand Zillow's origin. We didn't start out by scraping listings. Also; it's not healthy to fear web2.0. AR is worthy of your criticism yet we know that they're not evil. Think about it.
   

I hope that helps give you another perspective Ed - there really is no reason to fear Zillow and a gazillion reasons to consider using it to augment your online marketing. Just think how many borrowers you could have quoted in Zillow Mortgage Marketplace in the time you've spent typing up your concerns about the site.

Ed,

I couldn't agree more with you.  Well thought out and written post!

Ed - please tell me what exactly it is that you think I've ignored an I'll address it. I actually put a lot of time and effort into responding to every one of the fears you raised and so personal insults are certainly not the response I was expecting.

Mortgage rates have always fluctuated intra-day and they probably will always. That is an inherent complexity of the mortgage industry. We don't pretend to solve these challenges and we actually go to great lengths to show borrowers how rate quotes are changing on our site. Yet brokers quote loans and honor those quotes every day - whether or not they're on Zillow and likewise, brokers adjust their quotes as the market changes whether or not they're quoting on Zillow. Are you saying that you never quote borrowers? Without quotes, how do suggest borrowers should shop for a loan? I mean, really, what is your actual problem with the fact that rates can change and how is it that it's Zillow's problem?

Ed - this post is certainly not constructive feedback - I'm surprised you think it is. You are simply incorrect on points 2,3,4 and 5 and on point 1, we choose to disagree with you and err on the side of "more information is always better than less." I recommend you do your research before jumping to conclusions.

Deciding that Zillow is an "evil empire" is entirely irrational. I am sure it doesn't help to hear it from me, but seriously, it's unhealthy to get obsessed with conspiracy theories. While you're thinking that way, you're going to be missing out on new business opportunities. And if you think that's spin, you're sadly mistaken.

You and David have both expressed your opinions about ZMM, so I'll let that be. 

But I think the conversation between you and Carolyn above is very interesting.  Take Zillow and even the whole real estate industry out of the equation as to not confuse my point.  I really feel this is just how people are getting a lot of information now, from their "peers". 

It is so interesting how many decisions I know I personally make in my life, based on information from strangers.  For example, I just went on vacation and I poured over user reviews on TripAdvisor.  I rarely eat at a restaurant before first consulted Yelp. I even recently went to a dentist and an eye doctor because they were highest rated in my neighborhood on Yelp.  Also, I have posted a number of questions about gardening on Yahoo! Answers (I have a slug problem).  Even checked out realself.com before calling for a procedure at a salon. 

It is so normal for me to do these things and based on answers (verses identity), from there I sort of figure out whose answers I find valuable.  I realize that a professional gardener isn't giving me advise, but occasionally someone will represent themselve as such in the answers I recieve, and I definitely pay more attention to them.  All at my own risk, I know. 

Just my two cents that collecting information this way isn't isolated to the real estate space.  I am sure you know that, but wanted make the point.  I don't hold Yahoo! Answers accountable if all my flowers die due to advice I got on how to kill slugs.  :) 

Guess I just wanted to through in my two cents that this type of "peer consultation" is happening across the web for all industries and at all product and service price points.  You are probably thinking "losing money on a bad real estate deal isn't the same as losing some flowers".  Obviously not, but I do think there are a lot of similarity in the gathering of information process. 

Thanks for the air time.  I find this new way of gathering information (for everyone) absolutely fascinating. 

Ha, thanks! (I think) :)

Your argument does indeed make sense, and you are correct to want public leaders, in any capacity, to be held accountable or at least make clear what they actually represent. I promise that Zillow is consistently thinking about accuracy.

But let’s talk about your points… Yes, I can see how a site like Zillow might be viewed differently than Yahoo! Answers in a sense that it carved out a niche (real estate) and is working to create a platform, or a place, where people with similar interests (real estate) can get together to discuss real estate related topics (values, listings, neighborhoods, data, mortgages, etc).

I agree that vast majority of people don’t read the fine print, I know I don’t. But I still don’t think that someone takes information from a site that is free, and has never had a personal visit to their home, as a fact. I truly think people see it as a starting point. Of course, to the real estate professional, they are going to leverage the number however they think they can to get more for their home or pay less for a home. Also, automated home valuation models are becoming so ubiquitous on the web (even realtor.com has them now), that I think the public is understanding better than ever before what these numbers do (or don’t’) represent.

That said, using the same argument you describe below, I wonder how you feel about webmd.com? A site that has positioned themselves as a leader in a place to go to get medical information and talk with other people who may be experiencing similiar issues. They have symptoms and diagnoses listed for about every ailment, so you "diagnose yourself".  Of course there are disclaimers all over the site that if you want an actual diagnosis, you need to go see a professional, but we agree that no one really reads those. I have to believe that this information is seen as a mere starting point as well, and the public recognizes a need to see a professional for more accurate information.  I am sure you see where I am going here.

Thanks for the conversation, one of the best I have had in the comments section here on AR.

This conversation would have been an interesting blog post in itself.  Your response to your wife finding info on webmd conjures up for me the "do I look fat in these pants" question- you just can't win that one.  My husband quit trying a long time ago. 

Keeping the consumer in mind here- the whole point of gathering information, regardless of the source, is to make you feel empowered and give you the perspection that you are making smart choices.  Imagine twenty years ago when you got a diagnosis from a doctor, but then you were at their mercy as to how much information you received and when you received.  At least now you can go home and research all you want online.  It makes you feel more in control of your personal well being and the decisions you'll make. 

People need professionals in the real estate transaction.  They just like the opportunity to feel like they are driving and as much information as they can get their hands on helps with this. 

Interesting point about the mortgage industry.  I have personally acquired seven mortgages in my life and helped a few people I have sold homes to acquire financing.  I find it is one of those things that the more I learn about the mortgage world, the more I realize how much more I have to learn.  If you have a good lender, the process does seem pretty easy because the lender handles so much behind the scenes.  Get a bad lender, and you quickly realize just how much goes into getting a loan and how much can go wrong very quickly. 

Ed, I've read many articles on AR about Zillow. There is one Zillow Mortgage Marketplace feature that gives me pause and it is this - they require originators to enter their social security number. Am I the only one that takes issue with this? Is there any way around this requirement? Isn't there another way to validate a LO?