Short sale specialists, please chime in and tell me I am seeing this in the wrong light!

A little background; I have buyers who have been seriously looking for about three weeks. Along the way they told me about a home that they had inquired about before they worked with me. That seller was negotiating an offer at the time so they never pursued it.

I looked up the home and found it was under contract but since it was a short sale I kept it on a "hot list search." The contract fell through and the home went back on the market at the same list price of $179,000.

I contacted the agent and he told me the contract had indeed fallen apart and the home was available but the price was going to increase as there had been an appraisal and the bank wanted $210,000. (They might accept $205,000.)

This price put it out of my client's price range but I left the home on the hot list in order to follow any changes. The list price was changed to $210,000 the day of my initial contact with the agent. Today the home is once again listed at $179,000.

I called the agent and after introducing myself I told him I was a little confused. He knew exactly what I was calling about.

He explained to me that the bank still wanted $210,000 and would probably expect $205,000. (The bank wants to clear $178,000.) The second lien holder has agreed to take $1,000. He had taken four offers on the home all between $200,000 and $210,000 but for some reason or other the negotiations had fallen through.

Now here is where we enter the unethical, bait and switch part of this lengthy tale.

He knows the bank wants $210,000. (They might take $205,000.) He changed the price on the listing to reflect that but then he got to thinking.

When he had the home listed for $179,000 he had many phone calls, lots of showings and from those he got offers. So he decided he should list the home for $179,000 and generate the interest.

When an agent called he would tell them go ahead and show the home; by the way, the bank truly wants $210,000.

If a buyer calls him directly and is interested in putting in an offer he would let them know the bank really wants $210,000.

He does not see an issue with this practice.

I checked our MLS rules and regulations. There is nothing in the rules that specifically says he cannot do this. I checked the Florida Association of Realtors website Legal Center and cannot locate anything that specifically addresses this.

I think this type of behavior is unprofessional, unethical and should not be allowed.

What do you think? What would you do?

Interested in buying or selling a home in northeast Lake County Florida, including Eustis, Mount Dora, Howey-in-the-Hills, Tavares and Sorrento contact JoEllen E. Stranger-Thorsen, REALTOR® for all your real estate needs. Visit my website.

 
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11 Comments on Excuse Me -- that is unethical (or is it?)

Submit an offer less than 210K because I think eventually the bank will come around. As for the Realtor, I'm not sure. He eventually discloses the truth. What does your broker say?

06/21/2008 09:45 PM by Angelia Garcia (Francesca Realty.LLC)


I haven't taken it to my broker yet since I hadn't decided for myself that he is truly in the wrong. I figured I would throw it out there and see what you guys thought. My gut reaction is it is wrong.

06/21/2008 09:50 PM by JoEllen Stranger-Thorsen, Lake County, FL (Catherine Hanson Real Estate, Inc.)


I'm not quite for sure on this. I think it depends upon how long he's been marketing it. After some time, in a declining market, the bank's appraisal should come in lower. I've seen it all the time. I had one that the bank turned down 340K then later told me to reduce to 300K. Idiotic but thats what happened.

Now if the bank is still insistent that they want 210K and he has it at 179K he should either list it where they want, ask them to do another bpo or terminate the listing if it is overpriced. But those are just my opinions.

Good luck!

06/22/2008 02:25 PM by Cape Coral Real Estate Broker | Susan Milner | Florida-Future-Realty.com (Florida Future Realty, Inc.)


Susan -- As far as I can tell he is marketing as it is available at $179,000. At some point in time he states what the bank is looking for. I'm not sure when he is presenting that information. I know my buyers were not aware of it when they called and I'm not sure I would have been privy to it if I hadn't spoken to him as he was putting it at $210,000 and then again when the price dropped.

The bank is a whole other issue. In this particular deal, if the bank gets $210,000 (which would net them approx. $180,000) they will still be losing $145,000. I don't know what they will do. I've seen some banks do some crazy things (like you mentioned) lately. 

06/22/2008 10:00 PM by JoEllen Stranger-Thorsen, Lake County, FL (Catherine Hanson Real Estate, Inc.)


JoEllen - I would be curious what your broker said; I agree, it seems wrong, and I would think the listing agreement would have the price the parties agreed to, and tthat would be the price that needs to be in MLS, just like the dates that are in the listing agreement are the dates that need to be in the MLS. Let us know what happens!s

06/24/2008 09:55 AM by Carol Zingone, Broker Associate, GRI, SRES (Vanguard GMAC)


Carol -- I spoke with my broker and as a whole we don't believe the practice is ethical. Although in my opinion unethical there is nothing saying he cannot show this as the list price as long as the listing contract states it is the asking price. (The bank is not part of the listing agreement and is only part of the transaction as third party approval.)

06/24/2008 11:23 PM by JoEllen Stranger-Thorsen, Lake County, FL (Catherine Hanson Real Estate, Inc.)


More than likely the listing stipulates that the price is subject to third party approval, so he can get away with it. If my buyer wanted the property, I'd submit a price the buyer wanted to submit and let the bank counter. Most listing agents really have no idea what a bank will do and nine times out of ten, the bank doesn't know either until an offer is received. And even then, what the bank will do can change from day to day.

elizabeth weintraub sacramento real estate agent

06/28/2008 12:49 PM by Elizabeth Weintraub, Sacramento Real Estate Broker (Lyon Real Estate)


Elizaberth

The listing contract is between the seller and the broker, the MLS price should refect the listing contract price.

I would call the FAR legal hot line

Lou Ludwig

07/02/2008 09:33 PM by Lou Ludwig (Ludwig & Associates)


Hi JoEllen...I will park here to see what I can learn.

One of the agents I know had the same situation.  I suggested that she try to find out whether this was permissible or not.  Her purchasers found another place so they moved on.  I have not had the time to look in to it myself.

As far as banks not knowing what offer they will accept, many sellers do not know either.  Sellers often set their sights high and then lower them when offers aren't falling in their laps.  Banks should not have any more leeway than homeowners and investors.

If the bank does know what it will accept I think the list price should be that and not a penny less.  Otherwise, what is to prevent other sellers/listing agents from doing the same thing.

Sorry about writing my own post here.  I am really curious about the legality of this.

Kathleen

07/03/2008 05:58 PM by Kathleen "Kate" Elim, LAKE ANNA, VA Real Estate (RE/MAX Lake & Country)


I've run in to that very same practice here and I find it aggravating.  According to our Board, the practice does not violate the Code of Ethics and our Board has no specific policy prohibiting the practice as long as the listing states clearly subject to third party approval....

the only thing you can do is to forewarn your buyers that there are agents that use misleading ads (low list prices) in order to stimulate calls.  On your end as the Buyers Agent, you'll have to include the point-blank question as to the bank's position/counter offers, etc.

There's always going to be those agents that have to mislead or misrepresent to try to get business - it just makes the rest of us look really good.

07/08/2008 04:08 PM by Wendy Smith Real Estate


Totally unethical.  It would be one thing if he dropped the price over time, because he couldn't generate a contract at higher list prices.  He could make a case to the bank.  This guy sounds like a competitor of mine.  Short sale listed at $305K.  SHort sale approved at $315.  ???????  List it for market, or whatever is approved.  The bait and switch is bad kharma waiting to get you later.

07/11/2008 03:46 PM by Chris Ann Cleland, GRI (Long & Foster)


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Real Estate Agent: JoEllen Stranger-Thorsen, Lake County, FL (Catherine Hanson Real Estate, Inc.)
JoEllen Stranger-Thorsen, Lake County, FL
Eustis, FL
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Catherine Hanson Real Estate, Inc.

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