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Figures Lie and Liars Figure! - Why Congress Should Stand Pat On Prohibiting Off-Shore Drilling

I just watched President Bush's address that announced that he was lifting the executive order that stood prohibiting off-shore drilling. During his speech he made statements and gave figures that might make people believe that drilling off of our shores would bring gasoline prices down.

The facts of the matter are that on a short run basis, this simply isn't true. Drilling off of our shores will take at least 7 years before it could have an impact on gasoline prices. So it's simply not true that in order to deal with our current energy crises that we need to open up these areas in order to bring prices down.

This is nothing more than a land grab on the part of the big energy companies and while you might hear the various conservative talk show hosts banging on this drum and the big media companies (where most of us get our news from) framing the discussion in such a way that the many in the public begin to think that this is something that we should do, I ask you to put on your thinking caps and think this one out before you jump on that wagon.

If you accept the premise that our use of carbon based fuel is warming our planet to dangerous levels, then you should realize that even if we can increase the production of oil domestically in the next 7 to 10 years, that it really shouldn't matter. Instead of putting money into finding and exploiting this source of energy that is killing our planet, we should put this money and effort into perfecting the various "alternative" forms of energy that we have available to us.

If you don't accept the premise that our use of carbon based fuel is warming our planet to dangerous levels, then you should still realize that even if you don't accept global warming as a problem that the excess carbon in the atmosphere is causing great damage...maybe even irreparable damage to our oceans and the creatures that live in them.

Why does the fact that our oceans are getting more acidic and that this is killing off a very high percentage of the corals that live in our oceans matter to us humans? Because if the ocean dies, we die!

This acidification of the oceans may very well be what does us in even before global warming has a chance.

The end result is that we need to STOP BURNING FOSSIL FUELS to power our economy. Since this is the case, allowing the drilling for oil off of our shores and in our pristine wilderness environments is indeed simply a case of continuing the failed energy policies that the Bush Administration has been following since it came to power 8 years ago.

So again, I ask you to put on your thinking caps. Don't let off the wall statements such as, "Drilling in Anwr will provide oil equal to what we import from Saudi Arabia" fool you. Drilling in Anwr won't break our dependence upon foreign oil.

Even if it were able to lower the cost of oil by increasing the world wide supply (it wouldn't because when you look at the amount of oil that could be produced in Anwr, it is such a small percentage of world-wide production that it wouldn't have any discernible effect), it wouldn't matter because we need to stop using fossil based fuels to power our economies. Also, if history is any indication, cheaper oil would simply result in our using more of it which would in turn make the Global warming and ocean acidification problems worse!

R.B. "Bob" Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Bob Mitchell is president of ValueList Real Estate Services, St. Louis' largest discount/full-service real estate and mortgage company. If you would like to find out more about Bob, ValueList or our flat-fee listing program, please feel free to visit our web site at valuelistre.com

Posted by Bob Mitchell - Realtor St. Louis on 07/14/2008 02:04 PM

Comments (31)

ocean acidification, global warming, offshore drilling, anwr, energy policy

Post is included in group: The Economics of Real Estate
Post is included in group: Blatant Politics

31 Comments on Figures Lie and Liars Figure! - Why Congress Should Stand Pat On Prohibiting Off-Shore Drilling

JUL

2008

I don't buy the greenhouse theory. People aren't going to cut back we need to grow.

John: The evidence is pretty freaking compelling that our pumping C02 into the atmosphere is warming the planet, but like I pointed out in the post, even if you don't buy this....the fact that C02 is being absorbed by the oceans, which in turn in making them more acidic and causing the coral reefs to die (and other nasty side effects) is another reason for us to stop burning fossil fuels to power our economy.

To your point that we need to grow, this reminds me of a cancer cell which grows and grows and grows until it's killed it's host. Is this what we are to our planet?

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Bob. So if drilling for carbon based fuels is unacceptable and are to be eliminated, then what are the alternatives in your opinion. Nuclear? That technology will be fought my many who fear the disposal of the waste & the "Not in my backyard" mentality. Wind turbines? Good clean option but won't work with automobiles. Hydrogen? Need to build a nationwide delivery infrastructure. Ethanol? Ok....but we may just starve millions in developing nations. Oil shale? Ooops....Back to the initial issue of hydrocarbons. Solar power? Has a definite place but also has limitations. I believe it will take a combination of all of the above, not an all or nothing. Maybe I am missing something but with China and India coming on line with 25,000 automobiles a day and catching the US in total vehicles on the road in about 15 years, there is not much we alone can accomplish with the atmospheric pollution and ocean acidity. if we can't provide out own energy including drilling, what options do you suggest? I'm not being argumentative just wondering what solutions are acceptable in your opinion??? We need solutions not just what we cannot do or we accomplish nothing. Good post that hopefully will put people to thinking.

JUL

2008

Keith: Thanks for your comment and questions, as well as the opportunity to address your questions.

While I have been consistantly against Nuclear power in the past, I've come to modify my position. While the waste remains a concern, I think that the problem of the waste pales in comparison to the problems with global warming and ocean accidification.

What I'd really like to see is the use of Nuclear power as a stop-gap measure while we build our wind, tidal and hydrogen infrastructures. Hydrocarbons will be with us for some time, but we need to begin the process of divorcing ourselves from them ASAP.

I agree with you that it's going to take a combination of various sources of energy to solve our energy problem.

China and India are a bit of a problem, but they are in the same boat if we kill the planet, so we should work with them, in addition to a sticks and carrots approach to incentives and punishments to encourage that they too switch to non-carbon based economies. In a way, it will benefit them more because it's easier to build a green energy infrastructure than it is to REbuild an existing one.

Also, with the US and Europe onboard, as well as parts of Asia, India and China will eventually switch due to the fact that these "Alternative" energy sources do actually come with some serious benefits to those who utilize them.

Again, thanks for your comment and I hope that people do think about this stuff! The decisions that we make right now is what they are going to remember about us in the history books of tomorrow!

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

JUL

2008

Bob, I think it is a matter of national security first. We need to become energy independant. Even if it takes 7 years that is nothing in the grand scope of things. Its like me starting college again at 46 . I'll be 50 when I graduate but In a little over 3 years I will be 50 anyway(God willing) this way I will have a degree in Biblical studies and be on my way to making a difference. Time is all relarive.

JUL

2008

Hugh: First, how cool that you're going back to school! Congratulations!

Regarding your comment about National Security, I agree whole heartedly! We do need to become energy independent. The question is how we go about doing that.

Right NOW...the technology to power our cars with hydrogen exists. What is lacking is the infrastructure to support the technology. If we can put a man on the moon in under ten years, I think that we can build a nation wide network of hydrogen fueling stations. We can also perfect the technology necessary for people to be able to make their own hydrogen at home safely.

The big kink in the armor of hydrogen is that it takes a lot of electricity to manufacture and if you are using "dirty" electric that is made using coal, the math doesn't work out. That said, solar, wind and tidal are honestly available to us. All we have to do is to build the collection and distribution networks needed.

With the proper incentives, the free markets will do this for us.

The other choice is to continue drilling for and burning fossil fuels, which is killing the planet. Please read this wikipedia article on the subject of ocean acidification. It's scary stuff! Apparently global warming isn't the only negative consequence of pumping tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. By doing so, we are making the oceans less Alkaline (more acidic) and this is killing the animals that have shells or use calcium to build their skeletons.

It's estimated that within the next 50 years or so that up to 70% of the various coral species will become extinct. Without the coral reefs, bunches of fish species will follow. So forth and so on up the food chain with a very real possibility of the entire oceanic ecosystem collapsing.

Please, check it out and then tell me that 7 years isn't that important! Thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

JUL

2008

It amazes me that the same people that are against drilling for fossil fuels are for nuclear.

Hello, have you seen the damage caused by nuclear facilities? Ya think the world would be better off with these plants all over the globe? You think acidic oceans are bad now? Just wait till they get all these nuclear plants going. The acidic water will look like a holiday compared to the fall out from nuclear plants and the mistakes and damage that will be inevitable.

I'd rather have no electricity at all than to have nuclear plants anywhere near me or my family. Ever heard of radiation? Do you honestly believe there won't be leaks? How many more cancers will we create?

If you believe in atomic energy, you have been misled. It's like the "good ole days" when we were told cigarette smoking was good for your health.

I worked in Oak Ridge Tennessee. I lived in Kingston. You can't even eat the fish there! You won't be able to for a few hundred years-if ever!

Let me guess, we wouldn't make the same mistakes now that we are so intelligent and learned about atomic energy. WRONG.

I'm sorry but I can't buy into the Nuclear power hype. It's all BS! It's like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

As for the drilling.....I don't have a problem with it. I think we can come up with better alternatives but until then, I prefer drilling over nuclear any day of the week.

JUL

2008

Cheri': I'll fess up, I'm not that well versed on Atomic energy and have in the past been against it due to the waste issue. That said, I do think that it could be used as a stop-gap measure until the other sources of energy have their infrastructures built up to the point where they can be delivered efficiently.

The safety issues involved are of concern too and I understand your concern, but I think that these issues can be and have been pretty well dealt with from an engineering point of view. The safety issues involved with drilling in ANWR and off of our shores have not been dealt with from an engineering point of view and I don't know that they ever will be.

Thanks for your comment!

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

7 years seems an awful long time to build an oil rig and get it going. During the recent real estate boom. I saw condo towers 30 stories tall rise from a piece of dirt to completion in less than a year. Somehow I think that the oil companies will get it built a lot faster than 7 years. I bet within 18 months of breaking construction they could be pumping it out of the ground.

Granted though if we can avoid drilling in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico that would be great. Also I am all for conservation, but I think the reality is we need to do something about putting fuel costs under control.

Rob: I thought the 7 year figure was a bit long too, but apparently they'd be starting from square one. As of now, they don't actually know that there is any oil down there...it's a theory at this point.

Even if they could get it out of the ground quicker, I don't know that they should do it. Between the global warming and the ocean acidfication, it's time to move on. If these prices is what it takes to make it happen, then so be it.

Thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

JUL

2008

Bob,

I think we have been irresponsible as a nation in regards to energy for a very long time.

I would LOVE to see America end it's dependency on oil.

I would LOVE to see the auto manif. build cars that don't require much oil at all.

I would love to see congress put an end to oil speculation.

I think these things could happen in my lifetime. If not, I hope my children see it happen.

I'm for any alternative as long as it's not nuclear.

The only way to make that happen is to keep people aware.

Cheri': I think that we're pretty much on the same page here. My gut level is to support you on the nuclear issue, but for right now, I don't see an alternative in the short run. When I get a chance, I will look into the matter further. Thanks for your comments!

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

AUG

2008

Bob, interesting post. I do agree with you on the fact of yes, giving a order today to drill oil does not help our current gas pump situation. 7 years? Not sure on that, but you may be right if you have done your research. However, your point about alternative energy is correct.

In the 80's when I was still a young kid, was when Toyota and Honda were creating very fuel efficient internal combustion engines and vehicles and they were on the development chopping block. Yes, they still run on gasoline, but hey, they were efficent back then with not much popularity.

Fast forward. 20 years later, GM & Ford are hurting! Why? Does GM & Ford have reliable, fuel efficient vehicles? They say they do and opinions may tell you that. But if you do your research, how many people are now buying foreign cars for fuel efficiency and reliablity. I drove Ford F-150's till gas hit over $2. After that, I bought a a Toyota Camry and haven't had one problem and fill up much less. I'm not knocking Ford as a product... I love F-150's.

The US did this to ourselves and its a wonder why alternative reports (not cnn or fox) are giving GM a 75% chance of failure. Too bad for the US. We need alternatives besides the internal combustion engine.

On another note, anyone remember the wankel engine? Useless fact of the day.

Ryan: I have a hard time feeling sorry for Ford or GM....while they do have some costs that the other car companies don't (I've read that something like $900.00 of each car that they make goes towards pension and health care liabilities), I don't think that this accounts for them selling us pieces of crap for decades now.

You might have noticed that I left Chrysler off that list. I did this because one of my last cars was a Dodge Intepid and I finally sold it with something like 235,000 miles on it and the only non-maintenance repair was some front end work)...so they get a pass..

Anyway, I believe in the concept that nobody changes unless there is enough pain to make them want to change and I think that this goes for companies too. I had hoped that this would result in the American auto companies making a better product, but now that I own a 2007 Ford....I'm starting to see that this isn't the case.

This past weekend I took that vehicle out to show property and probably for less than the 10th time since it rolled off of the assembly line that vehicle had somebody in the back seat. As my client was getting out of the vehicle, the weather stripping around the back door fell off. Completely....poof! Gone!

I've also noticed that there were spots on the paint that were thin. When will they learn! Now, this vehicle was actually given to my girlfriend (because her mom was sick of it and went and bought a Honda), but even still! I would think that I could have expected better this late in the game.

Regarding the Wankel....I think that Mazda still has one vehicle that uses it... thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

AUG

2008

Bob - I don't buy either man made global warming or fossil fuels killing coral. The coral reefs in places like Leyte Gulf and other locations were there were massive ship sinkings and oil polution as a result are recovering nicely. The biggest threat to coral is coastal development and the use of fertilizers.

I do agree, more drilling will not significantly lower today's oil prices, however, it will certainly keep them from getting to $12 or $15 dollars a gallon. It will also provide for an economical transition to alternative energy sources.

Bob - First, I think you have to take this 7 year stuff and throw it away. That is the same excuse used 7 years ago when nothing was done. We need to do everything. Wind, solar, hydrogen,oil, oil shale, clean coal, tide, bio fuels, methane and anything new that comes along. And yes, nuclear.

I believe the debate on global warming is not over, just hijacked by anti capitalists. Reasonable people can have reasonable debate. It is when we, who don't believe that global warming is a fact, are compared to heretics that the debate gets hijacked again.

Also, more taxes is never the answer to anything.

I believe the NAR was correct in modifying their stance to address global climate CHANGE - the earth warms and cools, or different parts warm and cool, some rise, some sink, Greenland reclaims part of the land mass that existed there hundreds of years ago, other parts of the globe become too cold to inhabit - it's all part of a natural rhythm. That's the inconvenient truth.

I love the poeple who say - well,I'm FOR exploring everything EXCEPT nuclear, or except wind, or except hydro - then you're not really open to exploring ALL the alternatives or looking at ALL the solutions. When 75% of France can rely on clean nuclear energy without generating significant residues or experiencing ANY accidents or leakage for more than 2 decades, it's hard to believe we couldn't do at least as good a job if not better.

AUG

2008

Bob: Dodge Intrepid 235k? You got your $ out of that baby!

Very interesting story regarding your 2007 Ford. Wow. How can you even get mad? I'd just sit there and say "that figures".

Bob, your one of the few that actually know of the Wankel unless you googled it. Nice work. The wankel never got to be super reliable because of the gaps on the rotary piston vs. having piston rings on the piston. The piston rings have a better gap and the wankel would always lose power because of this problem. When I was a kid, I thought the wankel was made by aliens because it was so goofy looking.

Mike: From what I understand, the debate is pretty much over in scientific circles about whether or not there is Global Warming and if it's due to man. I"m not a scientist, but from what I've read the evidence seems pretty over whelming that we are indeed causing the planet to warm.

Regarding the acidification of the oceans...this is happening and has been measured. There is no scientific debate over this. While it remains to be seen how much damage that it ends up doing, the potential damage is significant enough to threaten our very existence! It's pretty scary stuff! Probably the scariest stuff that most people have never heard of!

Your points on fertilizers and coastal development could very well be true too! I disagree with you on drilling helping in the transition to alternative energy sources though. The sooner we commit whole hog, the better. Continuing to drill is only going to postpone the inevitable. Thanks for your comment!

Fred: I agree that reasonable people can disagree and that the debate shouldn't degrade into name calling, but as I pointed out to Mike above, the evidence is pretty over-whelming. I also agree that all forms of energy should be looked at, but that doesn't mean that we should adopt them. Oil Shale for example, uses a tremendous amount of water, plus still has the problems that come with it being a carbon based fuel.

Personally, I think that tax policy can be an effective way to encouraging folks to switch to better alternatives. Look at how many people have started to quit smoking cigarettes when they increased taxes substantially.

Ryan: I loved that Dodge! I've heard that other folks weren't as lucky as I was, but it was a big comfortable car that got decent gas mileage and had a killer engine in it.

Regarding the Ford....I'm not bitching...the car was free after all, but still...that didn't have anything to do with the weather stripping falling off. It simply shouldn't have done that!

Thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Gene: Sorry about that....I just skipped over you! Regarding global warming being a natural event...I kind of doubt it....From everything that we can tell, the current pace that the planet is warming is without precedent!

As I mentioned above, I'm all for considering all forms of alternative energy...even nuclear....but we do need to be careful. Thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

AUG

2008

You are obviously a democratic IDIOT, and this "land grab" will help our energy needs...So the F what if its not going to cut prices in half over night, it will in the future take the burden off of our dependance on foreign oil, and if done in conjunction with improvements in alternative energy sources it will in the long run CLEARLY help our country, which it seems more and more clear you people HATE. Democrats should take long walks off of short peirs, because in some cases they think like You. Maybe you like the idea of being forever linked to foreign oil, hell maybe Israel will take over and you will eventually get a break...I won't hold my breath. You should go on vacation like that dinosaur nancy pelosi, because obviously your brain has been on vacation for years. And, if all you are going to take into account is Anwr, then you have another thing comming, there is oil all over the place, and wether you like it or not we Will open up those reserves. American needs it now, and will continue to need oil for centuries to come. Get used to it, and move on!

Jon....Jon....Jon....Did you miss your pill today or do they need to up your dosage?

Chill brother....First of all, I'll match my IQ with yours any day, but that's besides the point. My point was that even if we were to find a butt load of oil right here in the Good Ole USA, it's not a good ideal to keep on the same path that we've been on. Did you not read the post?

Burning fossil fuels is pumping a lot of CO2 into our atmosphere which is then transferring it to our oceans causing the ph of the oceans to become less alkaline (or more acidic, if you will). This is in turn making it very difficult for coral (and other things that use calcium to build shells or skeletons) to live.

This is important to us because if these creatures go extinct, then it's possible (maybe even probable) that the entire ecosystem of the oceans could collapse. If this happens, then we're all FXCKED! Do I need to walk you through that again?

Now as far as how I feel about my country, I'm an honorably discharged veteran...How about you?

Do me a favor, if you would, turn down the talk radio and pick up a copy of the Constitution and maybe some books on how it came to be. While judging from your writing, you're probably not that good a reader, you still might find it interesting to see that honest discourse and debate is part of what makes our democracy function.

And thank you for your comment!

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

AUG

2008

Hi Bob- Oil is one of the things that made us such a great country. Its the reason you have been able to take a child to the emergency room or go to work 10+ miles away, drive that car and get 30 miles to the gallon.

We need to drill our oil here and still develop alt energy like Nuke power. Using your logic above that drilling here wont help, it will take 7 years bla bla bla, well let me tell you solar is more than 7 years away and wind wont even make a dent.

As for "global warming" come on, you buy into that? If you do im sure you can start buying carbon credits now to get a head start on fixing this problem.

One final thought, dont you think its a bit strange that ever since President Bush said he would lift the ban on drilling that the price has been coming down? Cant be related can it? That would take at least um 7 years!

AUG

2008

Oil is more than just energy. Oil is part of everyting we do. While I agree that we should get a way from using Oil as energy. How will we make the hundereds of other products that come from oil without oil?

Justin- I had someone tell me the other day there is a solar airplane in development. I said "you first" haha

AUG

2008

I think global warning is a hoax and that is becoming more and more evident for those that aren't blinded by false science.
I think carbon emissions is an absolute ridiculous misconception
I think icebergs melting and raising sea levels is kindergarten science and absurd
I think as long as people are narrow-minded and listen to all this self-serving crap from the politicians and people like T.Boone in bed with Pelosi's husband just to get richer and as long as people like my brother-in-law thinks the Republicans have a majority in congress, just proves the problem with this country is people believing in anything and everything their told WITHOUT PROOF OR science!

Let China and Russia and the rest of the world proceed while the uninformed masses in this country sit here and doing nothing but revert to the dark ages by eliminating gas, oil, all the byproducts, nuclear, etc.

And Bob, I respectfully disagree with your assumption that "drilling" doesn't lower the cost of gasoline. Oil prices are driven by "THE FUTURES MARKET" NOT how quick oil comes out of the ground. I can assure you if congress said drill, drill, drill everywhere and anywhere and a much and as fast as possible, the future price of oil would drop $50 to $60 a barrel in 24 hours without one single drill bit hitting the ground.

SEP

2008

Hi....sorry for the delay in getting back to you folks...I was out hugging a tree while I took a break from my bicycle ride...

Anyway, Larry: You're right that oil is part of what has made us a great country, cheap and abundant oil...plus the fact that we were pretty much the first to jump on it, did indeed give us a head start on the rest of the world. That said, it's time that we led the world again and started taking advantage of all of the alternatives to fossil fuels.

I do buy into the global warming thing, as do almost ALL of the various climate scientists around the world. Of those that don't, follow the bouncing dollar signs and you'll see why they diss global warming. Carbon credits are one way of addressing the problem, but so is conserving fuel where we can and utilizing alternative sources of energy.

Regarding the price of oil coming down, yeah it's taken a bit of a dip, but look at it!!!! Gas is still above 3 something a gallon. When Clinton was in office, gas was what...$1.19 or something? Since Bush took office (a perfect term since he wasn't truly elected in the first place) oil has gone up something like 800%! Does the fact that him and Cheney (and a lot of the neo cons in power today) are oil men have anything to do with this? Hmmmm, let me think???? Yep!

The price of oil coming down has more to do with the fact that it's strangling the economy than the fact that Bush dropped the mouretorium....which was a symbolic move in the first place!

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

Justin: If we got away from using oil as an energy source, there would be plenty available for other uses such as petro chemicals and plastics....thanks for your comment too!

Larry: I'd be interested in flying in it, as long as it had a good old fashion gasoline engine as a back up! ;-)

David: What can I say....the vast majority of the worlds climate scientists, as well as most other scientists of various fields, disagree with you.

China and Russia will follow suit if we switch to alternative energy sources because in the long run, they will be more efficient and because as time goes on it will become more and more evident that we can't continue on our present course without jeopardizing the health of our planet!

You're halfway right in regards to your comment about the oil prices being driven by the futures market...this is indeed where oil prices are set...but they aren't driven by the futures market, the futures market is driven by the facts on the ground. Those facts point towards oil prices returning towards appreciation.

Thanks for your comment too!

To Everyone: If you would, please do me a favor.....while I realize that a good number of you are coming from a particular political slant, this issue is too important to be political about. Before you spout off your opinion about global warming being a hoax or that we have all the oil that we need...etc. please, do some research.....be objective! PLEASE???

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

SEP

2008

We, the American public are a selfish bunch. I keep hearing that "someone" needs to do something to bring down energy costs. Much of that "someone" is right in our own hands. I drive down the highway, and I get pased like I am standing still by a 4x4 doing well over 70 on the freeway. Slowing down would save. I walked into an office building and the temp was below 70. At night lights are on in buildings. Do we need aal thelights on the freeways and other intesections? My car has headlights. Ok Some of thisis for pedestrian saftey, but let's get real.

If more people would start doing "their" share, It would make a big difference. We still need to explore and drill, but we also need to conserve! We need to find alternative sources, but are you willing to pay a bit more for that tyoe of energy.

Ther is no easy answer, but until we as the American public as a whole start changing our ways...there will never be enough energy for us or our granddhildren!!

Noted Bob. The mind is like a parachute...it only works when opened.

The new, news/buzz today is the long studied effects of sun spots and global earth temperature that's been reported for quite some time now. Two articles below warn of a serious global "cooling" which is worse than warming.

http://ideonexus.com/2008/02/13/sun-spot-cycle-prompts-fears-of-global-cooling/

http://www.paulmacrae.com/?p=34

SEP

2008

William: I agree with you, but only to a certain extent. If we were utilizing the alternative energy sources that are available to us, then we would be able to blast our 4X4's down the road at crazy speeds and leave the lights on so that people get the feeling that we're actually at work doing something at 3 in the morning!

No, I do agree with you and thanks for your comment.

David: You do realize that that first article was being factious, don't you? Anyway, there might be something to the sun spot/global cooling theory...climate science is still a pretty open field. We'll have to keep our eyes open. That said, there is still the issue of ocean acidification to worry about.

thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

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