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Yikes!!!!

OK it's time for me to repost an "oldie but goldie". I was sitting down to write a post today, based on conversations I had this morning, with two potential Sellers. As I started writing, it was sounding very familiar. Then I remembered I had written about this same scenario almost 2 years ago!!!! Funny how things remain the same. This particular post also happens to be the one that has had the most "clicks" out of the 469 posts I have written. As of today, 12,319 people have clicked on this post. That's "clicks" not "views"! What does that tell you about the state of the market? Anyway....I hope you enjoy it. 

THE SHARKS HAVE HAD THEIR FILL.......
First posted 9 September 2006

I just got off the phone with Mr. Ive B. Screwed. Seems like a nice young man from South Florida, I could hear babies crying in the background. Mr. Ive B. Screwed bought a house in Poinciana, January of this year. He's never been to Poinciana but based on advice, he received from one of his neighbors, he decided Poinciana would be a great place to purchase a new home, then turn around and sell it for a small profit. Well, unfortunately for Mr. Ive B. Screwed, he was connected with a builder, WeRipOff, Inc. who just happened to be building homes in Pionciana. Not only would they build you a house but they would finance it as well, with only $5,000 down and pay all the closing costs. What a deal!! And to sweeten the pot even more, they work hand in hand with a Real Estate Company named GetRichToday, LLC.

This Company, Realtors by the way, promise that when your $225,000 house is complete they will sell it at $265,000, before the first payment is due, and you get to keep the $40,000 profit minus selling expenses! Man what a deal! How come I didn't buy me some of these gems. Let's see, for $50,000, I could have bought 10 houses and made $400,000 before expenses. Wow! I could almost retire or pay cash for my dream home.

Ok, flash forward to my conversation with Mr. Ive B. Screwed today. According to him, WeRipOff, Inc is now out of business. GetRichToday, LLC, even though apologetic, have told him they can't sell his house and have decided to withdraw the listing. Mr. Ive B. Screwed is now desperate. His mortgage payment is $1,800 per month and he has been borrowing money against the equity or his primary residence to make the payments. So he decided to call Broker Bryant to see what I can do for him. Being the good little Realtor that I am, I tell him to give me an hour and I will do a little research on his house to see what his options are and what I feel I can sell the house for in 60 days or less.

This is what I find out:

  • His house is worth $219,000, maybe, if we get lucky.
  • It was probably worth $199,000 when he bought it.
  • There are 200 homes, just like his, for sale, in the same neighborhood.
  • If I can sell it, he will have to bring at least $20,000 to closing. On top of the $20,000 he has already dished out. Remember, this money has been borrowed against the equity in his homestead.

Needless to say, Mr. Ive B. Screwed is not a happy camper. Then I asked him if he had a prepayment penalty. After checking, he does. Ok, another $8,000 to $9,000 out of his pocket. So maybe, if I get lucky, he can cut his losses for about $50,000. You do remember this is money coming from the equity of his homestead? Did I tell you about the crying babies in the background? Folks, I have to tell you, I feel like crying too. And I'm sure Mr. Ive B. Screwed feels the same way.

So the way I see it, here are his options:

  • Rent the house for about $800.00 a month and hold it for a few years to see if things change.
  • Sell it and take the loss.
  • Let the bank foreclose on it.
  • Pray.

Except for the name changes, this is an absolutely true story. And there are hundreds, just like it, in my market right now. This transaction reeks of loan fraud. This young man's life and family have been damaged and it may take years to recoup his losses. And I'm sure, WeRipOff, Inc is now called OutToSrewU, Inc and is in another area doing the same thing again. And the Realtors? Well, shame on you. I hope you spend a lot of nights thinking about the lives you have ruined.

The sharks have had their fill and moved on to better feeding grounds! 

 

32 Comments on The Sharks have had their fill..........Originally posted in September 2006!!!

Reserved Parking For "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR!

Blog Boy...

I really am amazed that this post is as relevant today as it was 2 years ago. Do you think the folks in Poinciana will start setting fire to their homes? :)

TLW...ROAR!

07/18/2008 04:07 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)


BB, and the NAR says real estate is such a good investment. With your story here, OUCH!!! So much in real estate other than some plain dumb luck of where you live (location, location, location), is getting a solid deal on the buy side. It is very much like following great decision criteria for rental investment property.

07/18/2008 04:12 PM by Gary Woltal - REALTOR® Dallas Ft. Worth (Keller Williams Realty)


BB, and the NAR says real estate is such a good investment. With your story here, OUCH!!! So much in real estate other than some plain dumb luck of where you live (location, location, location), is getting a solid deal on the buy side. It is very much like following great decision criteria for rental investment property.

07/18/2008 04:12 PM by Gary Woltal - REALTOR® Dallas Ft. Worth (Keller Williams Realty)


Reminds me of the fraud that we had in Charlotte.  The nice folks in Atlanta went to a seminar on "How to Buy A Home With No Money Down."  They gave the GetRichQuick Real Estate folks their socials, and were told at closing they would receive $2000 back.  They got their $2000 - and a house in Charlotte with a mortgage of $325K.  The house was actually only worth around $125K (came in on a truck to a VERY bad section of town)... the sharks pocketed the rest (and forged all the mortgage and closing docs).  The nice folks in Atlanta had been told the property would be rented to cover the payments... nope.  The sharks made the first 4 payments then swam back out to deeper waters. 

07/18/2008 04:14 PM by Eleanor Thorne, Cary Mortgage Loans (Meridian Residential)


HI, TLW!!! BB, your market is a study in everything that can possibly go wrong, and does- at least we are ahead of the curve by reading. While I've observed many successful buyouts through agents with huge lines of credit, those were in "better days"- to "buy out" an entire community of new homes is an absolutely ridiculous proposition. In ANY market.

07/18/2008 04:27 PM by Options Realty


BB - I know you don't have it easy in Poinciana, although Poinciana is really a great place to buy homes, with home prices so low. I really do hope that "WeRipOff, Inc." or whoever is behind will do time behind bars. I think it is time for Blogging Bertha to come out of hiding.

07/18/2008 04:46 PM by Petra Norris, Broker - Lakeland Realtor® Lakeland Florida Real Estate, (CDV TransAtlantic, Inc.)


No telling how many times that scenario is repeated throughout that area.  The loss of individual and community wealth is staggering.

You'd think the buyers would be swarming all over those homes at the present prices.  But, many don't want to buy in an area with the percentage of foreclosures and short sales driving the prices down even more.

Those builders/lenders/agents were running what to me was a criminal enterprise. 

07/18/2008 05:00 PM by Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Real Estate


Do you know whatever happened to the house and the seller??

07/18/2008 06:18 PM by rrsafety


Sounds like you need to change the name to Scam City. I hope they aren't in my area...oh hek....they probably rode through already.

07/18/2008 07:09 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Rrsafety, That's a good question. I actually listed this property as a shortsale. Within 60 days we had a buyer willing to pay $195,000. After 4 months of trying to get the lender to play ball the buyer finally got tired of waiting and moved on. The property was foreclosed on and eventually came back on the market priced in the low 100s. It sold for $105,000!!

I did a little research after writing this post and wrote this follow up. I have spoken to many of these unfortunate buyers over the last year or so. Almost all of these homes eventually got foreclosed on. The lender was Americam Home Mortgage which ended up going belly up last year. Some of these homes are on the market now as REO in the low 80s. I don't know what happened to the builder or the REALTOR(R)

07/18/2008 07:13 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


Bryant, your follow-up comment is the most extraordinary part of this compelling blog post for me.  I shake my head in amazement at the final sale price of $105,000 and I'm sure that does not reflect costs like legal fees absorbed by the bank.  Some of this stuff is so strange that one could not make it up.  Sadly relevant post...two years later. 

07/18/2008 07:26 PM by Lola Audu~ Audu Real Estate~ Grand Rapids, MI Broker


If it sounds too good to be true? Too many time we get a little greedy and it comes back to bite us here we get a big bite right up front. Too bad for the buyer but it has happened too many times.

07/18/2008 09:32 PM by Terry Westbrook ~ Realtor(R) Grand Rapids Mi Ada/Cascade Real Estate (Five Star Real Estate, LLC Grand Rapids , MI)


We had plenty of this going on here in Minnesota. There is currently a whole neighborhood sitting vacant because of straw buyers. Like you told him, there are just so many properties, just like his, sitting on the market also for sale.

07/18/2008 09:34 PM by Jennifer Kirby, the Luxury Agent (Exit Realty Eden Prairie)


BB - If only every wanabee investor could read this! It's amazing how many overzealous, know-it-all people I come across who think they are so savvy. Many are well educated and think they know it all - yet, they still get screwed! Some people just don't seem to realize that no matter how smart they think they are, there are sharks out there!

07/18/2008 11:11 PM by Carol Culkin (Century 21 - Anita Ferri Realty)


I wish all the bank short sale negotiators could read this post!  If we bring them a buyer, they should snap it up, not wait 4 months to say yes....by then the buyer is often times gone!  This is probably even more relevant today than when it was first posted! 

07/19/2008 12:59 AM by Meridian Idaho Real Estate ~ Pam Pugmire (All Pro Realty)


Bryant,

Thanks for the post. You are so on the money with this one. Gets worse when you witness owner occupants being evicted with nowhere to go.

07/19/2008 07:43 AM by William Collins, Broker Associate (ERA Queen City Realty)


That reminds me of stories I have heard about Lehigh Acres in South Florida.

Not a pretty story, but than again, if it walks like a duck, if it talks like a duck. . . .

Anne

 

07/19/2008 08:51 AM by Anne Hensel Real Estate Professional buy or sell St. Pete


Broker Bryant, I see and hear many scenarios like Mr. Ive. B Screwed. There were and still are many companies out there who focus on scamming consumers. However I truly believe that each person has total control over what happens to them. We are free to make our own choices and decisions.

07/19/2008 10:35 AM by Camarillo CA Real Estate Agent/ Mana Tulberg (Beach View Real Estate)


Unfortunately, that about sums it up. It was just the way it went when the market was hot. And even when it's not hot, there will be sheisters who will find a way to ripoff another gullible person. How is it that many people can so easily forget, if it seems too good to be true, then it is!

07/19/2008 09:05 PM by Lisa Hill (Daytona Beach Real Estate) (Adams Cameron and Company)


Broker Bryant, hats off to you for continuing to do such a good job in a bad market.  We got extremely lucky here in the Midwest.  When I hear other agents complaining it makes me cringe.  Our home prices have only dropped about 3% in the past year, and DOM are only up about 15.  There is no excuse to whine about our market.

07/19/2008 10:02 PM by Kristina Pratt, Realtor - St. Louis' Illinois Suburbs (Coldwell Banker Brown Realtors)


Thats the sad thing about this going on.  One, people based their decisions on greed and did these investments.  Two, agents/builders/investors alike convinced people to speculate because other people were making money speculating.  What a mess this got people into.  Thats why big returns with no little effort is called high risk. 

Utah Dave

Utah homes for sale

07/20/2008 10:36 AM by Utah Dave and Utah Homes for Sale (Robison & Company Real Estate)


Thanks, Bryant ---

It is amazing that these mortgage holders didn't aggressively settle these loans 12-18 months ago when they had a chance. Now it is a firesale and a complete disaster.

The more I read about this debacle, the more I relize how genuinely stupid these mortgage companies, servicers, and investors truly are. Their greed knows no bounds and so they are just getting in deeper and depper.

Read today's NY Times about the Ahelman family. Trying to pay their mortgage but the mortgage company won't take any money from them, the company just wants to keep adding fees and penalties so it is impossible for them to pay, even thought the family has tried on numberous occassions to pay off the mortgage arrears, the company keeps returning the checks.

When it goes to foreclosure, the company will probably lose $75,000 when they could have lost NOTHING. Truly criminal.

07/20/2008 11:56 AM by RRsafety


BB: LOVE that graphic! While the Codgers were subscribed already, I now am here on AR in my own right, and making it official by subscribing to you.

07/20/2008 12:26 PM by "Boomer" Jack Boardman (Former REALTOR® & Current RE Spouse)


TLW said it...a post that's over 2 years old and still relevant...

07/20/2008 02:28 PM by GA-agent.com-- Georgia Real Estate Directory (GA-agent.com)


Well hello though Jack. Welcome to AR as an official member!!!

07/20/2008 02:33 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


BB: Thank you very much! I hope we can have as much fun as in the olden times with you & Jay! He always spoke highly of you & TLW!

07/20/2008 03:39 PM by "Boomer" Jack Boardman (Former REALTOR® & Current RE Spouse)


Major major major FBI investigation with indictments in my area for a similar situation.  Are we cleaning ladies or what?

07/21/2008 01:05 PM by Renee Burrows - Las Vegas NV Real Estate (Nevada Realty Solutions)


I just heard a story in the news that the State of Florida estimates thousands of convicted felons have been/were working in the mortgage industry in Florida, and may be a major contribution to the problem here. 

 

 

07/21/2008 02:14 PM by Andrew Cox (Cox Property Services)


BB..until I read your follow up comment that you posted at : (

07/18/2008 07:13 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
)..I was going to ell you to call me so I could scoop up that deal!!!! Wow..that was a winner! Let me know if you have anymore like that..especially in that subdivision. Man it's a veritable gold mine and from appearances it looks like they will cash flow!!!

What are you waiting for?? Just read 30 comments here and not one..not a single one..seemed to recognize the MASSIVE opportunity here..are you kidding me??? This should be a featured post ON AR and on Localism and on your own blog..here's the headline and subheadline:

"Bank Owned Properties For Sale In Poinciana | Prices Start in the low $80's"
Hey investors are you looking for deals that will cash flow? Be ruthless with the banks. If they are offering prices in the low $80's imagine what kind of deal you can get. I'll present any and all offers.

BB, mostagents would never do it, and those are the agents you can blow out of the water. With your experience and know how you'll bury your competition and the phone will start ringing. Go ahead and post that article on your blog..not here (brokerbryant.com) and watch the phone start ringing.

If you need any help let me know. We own google for bank owned properties down here in our neck of the woods and when I say own I mean 4-6 of the top 10 spots. Go for it and make syou and the TLW a bit of cash.

We mended our issues and I am willing to help anyway I can. This post wasn't a doom and gloom post...are you kidding me? This was a post of sheer, unbelievably good opportunity. It just has to be acted upon.

I just Googled "bank owned properties in Orlando", bank owned properties in Kissimmee", bank owned properties in Poinciana" and bank owned properties in Central Florida"...and you don't show up ANYWHERE...NO WHERE!!! (well you actually do show up in Poinciana but the only people searching that would be probably you and TLW)

Point being you have virtually no presence and your chum that you are using to attract the "sharks" (the ones you DO want to feed) is not at all appealing. In fact the article that does show up is one admitting failure....not good chum by any means!

Numbers, profit, cash flow, rental statistics....give the buyers what they want. Anyways..my bud, let me know if you need any help.

FYI..we are getting about 4-6 leads per day and have built up quite the buyers list and have two closings pending...in under 30 days of putting up the post. Also as you know the europeans love us right now...that's another lesson though.

I'm around big guy if you'd like to chat.

 

07/23/2008 01:50 PM by Barry Cunningham


Barry, This particular post isn't about opportunity it's pointing out how my market was raped during the boom by so called "investors" that didn't have a clue and builders, mortgage brokers and real estate agents "pitching" lies and fraud to separate them from their money. 

Now for the rest of your comment. There are starting to be some really good opportunities in Poinciana. But it's not quite there yet. And here's why. The REOs have just started hitting the market very hard over the last 3 to 4 months. At this time most of the folks buying these are end users. The banks know this and are holding out for their price which is evidenced by properties selling at a little more than 97% of list price.

The REOs/Short sales are making up about 70% of the sales in Poinciana. These lower priced sales are bringing values down quickly. So getting comps for a higher price just ain't going to happen. So flipping or wholesaling isn't there....yet.

Now if you have end users who are not able to get financing you can certainly find opportunity in doing rent to owns or lease options. BUT this ties up capital. Buy, rent and hold will certainly work if you are willing to hold for at least 5 years until values POSSIBLY increase. The only down side to this is that rents are also going down due to so many vacant properties available for rental.

So right now Poinciana is still an end user market. I feel this will change though as we close in on 2009. There are going to be many more REOs, banks will be more competitive and values will be even lower.

Now having said all that there are SOME deals hitting the market. Houses in the $40 per sq ft price range are pretty decent buys if the home is not too old. At this price though they are still at about $.60 on the $. Doable.

07/23/2008 06:17 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


Hey BB,

When you say "isn't about opportunity"...that is wholly a matter of perspective. It may sound callous, but I and those who buy and seek out these opportunities could care less how the opportunities became such. So it really does not even enter into my mind about the market being "raped". Who cares?

We're in the here and now. Our main strategy currently is buy & hold. Not necessarily for five years, that's not how we value a property. Currently we are viewing investment property..well as investment property. We have european buyers and bulk buyers as well as individual buyers who are buying based upon cap rates. Yes, we are using the commercial real estate valuation of cap rate analysis and having great success.

IF you truly have homes listed in the low $80's and even given your 97% of list price sales (which we most assuredly know we can get homes much cheaper) will allow for a decent cap rate based upon estimated taxes and expense allocation. If the rents are $800 or so.

Couple that with a very favorable international exchange rate and you have the makings of an absolute killer opportunity.

With so many foreclosures in Poinciana approaching the banks with bulk buy packages often gets the prices down even further. You wrote.."These lower priced sales are bringing values down quickly", FANTASTIC!!! A regression analysis makes the banks even more motivated and agressive.

About the 97% of list price figure, yeah..yeah...heard it down here as well. Does not stop us from getting deals at 50% or MORE below list. Same banks involved down here as up there and often the same asset managers.

We have disagreed before so no big deal but I do believe this post was indeed about tremendous opportunity, it's simply a matter of perspective.

07/24/2008 06:15 AM by Barry Cunningham


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Real Estate Brokerage: Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
Bryant Tutas Broker/REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
Poinciana, FL
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Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

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