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Why Credit Scoring Should Be Illegal

By
Mortgage and Lending with Bank of England (NMLS#418481) NMLS# 1046286

 

 Cover from Federal Reserve Bank Paper on Credit Scoring

 

Most people have come to accept the concept of credit scoring, but if you think about it there are some fairly significant issues that should be examined before credit scoring is blindly accepted.

My first major malfunction with credit scoring is that the fish stinks from the head down.  It is estimated that up towards 70% of all credit reports contain inaccurate information.  That means that right off the bat that 70% of credit scores are simply not accurate.  Sometimes the error is in the consumer's favor, but more times than not it works against them.

Back in the old days, before automated underwriting systems such as DU and LP came around your credit report was actually underwritten by a live person.  If I had a borrower who had something on their report that wasn't correct, we would simply write a LOX (letter of explanation), provide documentation that what we were saying was the truth and the underwriter would take the entire picture into account.

The best way that I can explain why the use of credit scoring is a bad idea is to give you some examples: 

WAR STORY #1

I was doing a mortgage for a young lady who when I pulled her report had a credit score in the low 500's (bad credit).  It turns out that she had six collection accounts on her report that stemmed from a discover card that was charged off 5 years previous.  One trade line was the charge off itself by Discover, the second one was the original collection agent, the third one was the second collection agent that took the account over after the first one was unsuccessful in collection on the account.  The forth, fifth and six trade lines were collection agencies that had bought and sold the account, but who had continued to report the account out as if they still owned the account.

The first problem with this situation was that what should have been one charged off account was now 6 negative trade lines.  While each of the collection agencies should have updated the trade lines or removed them when they no longer owned or were contracted to collect on the account, not one of them did.

My second problem with this particular situation was that the account had never belonged to my client.  When this story took place, my client was 21 years old.  Meaning that she would have only been 16 when the account was charged off.  Younger still when the account (which I think had been opened for 3 years before it was charged off).  By law, even if she had "applied" for the account - which she had not - she could not be held liable for it.

I attempted to get the matter straighten out by calling each of the collection agencies and Discover.  At Discover I was bounced around like a pin ball and only got their attention when I had an attorney write them a letter threatening to sue them.  I then faxed a copy of the client's driver's license to them to prove her age and they agreed to remove their trade line.

The collection agencies weren't so cooperative.  Even though Federal law (The Fair Debt Collections Act and the Fair Credit Reporting Act) states that it is illegal for a company to attempt to collect on a debt that they don't own or have not been contracted to collect on by the credit issuer, only one of the collection agencies agreed to remove their trade line when I faxed them a copy of the letter from Discover stating that the debt was not valid.

Eventually, I bull dogged the collection agencies into removing the trade lines upon threat of litigation.  However by that time, the home that the lady wanted to buy had gone to another party.  I lost out on a mortgage, the agent lost out on her commission and the would be home buyer lost out on the house that she wished to purchase.

WAR STORY #2

 Ms. Smith (not her real name) was always very careful about credit.  She choose to only keep two charge cards for emergency situations and the occasional internet purchase.

She decided that she wanted to buy a home and figured that she shouldn't have any problems.  She had always paid her rent on time and had never in the 15 years that she had credit cards had a late payment.  

How wrong she was!  We pulled a report on her and her credit scores were in the mid 500's.  

Why?  Well, actually nobody other than the credit scoring agencies know for sure, but the best that I was able to come up with was that when we pulled her report, she had balances on both of her cards and her credit limits were low.  

The computers were "reading" her that she was tapped out since her balances were too high a percentage of her available credit.  When I mentioned this to her, she was flabbergasted.  She told me that both of her charge card companies had offered to raise her limits on numerous occasions over the years, but that she had turned them down.  

I ended up calling each of the credit scoring agencies and pretty much hit a brick wall.  Their reply was that they couldn't tell me what went into the score beyond certain generalities.  When I pointed out that this lady had never had a late payment in her life, they simply didn't care.  The computer was the wizard and knew best!

The quickest, easiest way to fix this problem was to have her call her charge card companies and request an increase to her credit limit.  They gladly complied and her credit score jumped from the mid 500's to the mid 700's.  Simply by increasing her credit limits.  Nothing else.

My major objection here is that if you are going to get judged by a set of criteria, shouldn't you have the right to know what that criteria is?  This lady was doing everything right, as far as she knew.  I think that most people would agree that she was a good credit risk.  Everybody that is except Fair Issac that is. 

I could go on and on with more war stories, but I think that you get my drift.  

I'm not so naive to think that credit scoring and automated underwriting is going to go away.  I can agree that if everything goes right that they have indeed sped up the underwriting process.  I guess that my main objection is that the current credit laws need to be enforced and probably tightened.  Companies that violate these laws should be prosecuted, fined and even jailed in the most outrageous situations.  A quick and FREE system to challenge the information on your credit report should be mandatory.  

Fannie and Freddie would go a long way towards correcting this situation by simply allowing a valid appeals process if DU or LP turns your mortgage request down or downgrades you.  The computers shouldn't have the last word here.  I've attempted to talk with both agencies and was completely rebuffed.  I called my congressman and senator's office and received polite acknowledgment letters, but no action.

If you agree with me, call your congressman or senator.  Real people are getting hurt every day.  Something needs to be done to correct this situation.

If you would like more information, please feel free to drop me a line

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

 

 

 

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham
Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC
Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Testing something here.....in the groups, does a blog jump back up to the top when it's commented upon?

This is only a test...;-) 

Mar 20, 2007 10:39 AM
Gary Smith
Agent Marketing Today - Commerce Township, MI

Bob,

 I had a similar experience as story #1 several years ago. Since then I've heard of several people filing suits in small claims courts and winning when errors are not corrected.

Mar 20, 2007 12:37 PM
R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham
Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC
Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Gary:  Suing the creditor and/or collection agent is the consumer's only choice.  You can file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, but they won't do anything unless they see a pattern of abuse.  When I asked the chief enforcement officer with the FTC, "What level constitutes a pattern", he said that he didn't know, but it would be in the thousands of complaints".  So, in other words, they don't enforce diddle!

 

Bob 

Mar 20, 2007 05:10 PM
Beth Bastian
Rosemont Financial Inc - Simi Valley, CA
Simi Valley Real Estate

Credit scoring does have a number of problems, but let go back to before there where fico scores.  It was felt that underwriters or lenders were able to discriminate easily, because there was not always a set standard on what credit should be.  With credit scores lenders can have proof that they are not turning people down based on credit, not race or gender. 

Mar 20, 2007 05:25 PM
R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham
Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC
Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Beth:  Just happened to be on when you left this... I hear what you're saying, but don't really agree.  While underwriting was a lot more subjective back in the day, there were a series of checks and balances.  You had an appeals process.  I personally had a transaction where instead of declaring bankruptcy after a substantial medical bill from a sick child, a couple paid every last penny off over a 5 year period.

Two other lenders had turned them down.  I took the case up the ladder all the way to an executive in the underwriting department at Fannie Mae, who saw my point (that we were punishing them for doing the right thing).  I've been in the mortgage business since 1986 and in my opinion mortgages, at least on the institutional side - I can't vouch for any local banks- is as color blind an industry as there is.

Anyway, my point is that under the current system there really isn't an appeals process.  I have one lender, Countrywide, who will consider overturning a DU or LP underwriting determination, but they are VERY leary of doing it because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have pretty much assured them that if they do that the loan is going to be audited.  This is no matter how obvious the error is.

Thanks for commenting! 

 

Mar 20, 2007 05:48 PM
Kate Bourland
Marketing with Kate - Redding, CA
Onlilne Marketing Mobile Marketing

Bob, thanks for this post. I am amazed that more Active Rain Members are not commenting and involved on this issue.  You are absolutely right, why is the FICO scoring criteria so secretive?  Why is it that companies that report to the CRA's and collection agencies have the ability to manipulate the information on a report, but credit repair by individuals is looked down on?

I believe that managing your FICO scoring should be the single most important financial skill that consumers must learn.   As time goes on the human element will become more and more removed from the process.  All it takes is one wrong piece of information on a computer to ruin someone's ability to function effectively in this society.  It not only reflects on your ability to borrow, but it also reflects on your ability to get employment.

Both parties deserve to know the rules and may the best strategist win.

Jun 29, 2007 09:17 AM
Crystal Pina
774.289.5521 - Worcester, MA
Remax Professional Associates

Fixing marks on your credit can be a nightmare! When we went to buy our house we found two things on my husband's report that needed to be fixed. The first was a bill that was his. I contacted the people listed, made payment and got a letter from them saying it was paid. Then I got a call from the original company who wanted to be paid also! It seems I paid the wrong department. They wanted me to pay again, then get the money back from the other department - yeah right! I already had the letter for the mortgage company.

The second thing was wrong. It was a cell phone bill that wasn't his so I contacted the creditor (a lawyer) and asked them to help me fix it. OMG, I started getting harrassing phone calls demanding payment. I told them I was the one who contacted them for help, but they didn't care. The bill was Southwestern Bell, so I called them. They had no record of the bill existing. So I called SBC, which Southwestern Bell changed their name to. No record of the bill. Then I called Cingular West and Cingular East who owns SBC and they had no record of the bill. None of them would give me a letter saying we don't owe the bill, and in the meantime the original lawyer kept calling me and harrassing me for the money and they wouldn't send me proof of the bill either. Luckily the mortgage company gave us the mortgage with the bill not paid.

After we moved into the new house I began getting letters from another collections agency about the Southwestern Bill. The lawyer sold the bill to a collections agency! Aargh!

Jul 08, 2007 12:16 AM
Victoria Small
Keller Williams Realty Chesterfield - Saint Louis, MO
Remember Small is the name...not the SERVICE!
Both of scenarios were very good. It interesting to learn what is needed to boost a credit score and base on what you have said credit scores should be outlawed or consumers should be informed what it takes to maintain a good credit scroe and what is invovled in the scoring.
Aug 29, 2007 10:48 AM
Keith Perry
Coldwell Banker - Hiram, GA
REALTOR - West Metro Atlanta

Why oh why isn't a subject in high schools across the nation on credit scores in economics class. Oh wait there is no such class. Waiting In Line 





Aug 29, 2007 11:00 AM
Anonymous
lauren

I am 24 years old and have 3 kids.I have not been able to purchase a home soley on the fact that I have no real credit.I applied at 18 for gas cards ,jewelry cards,and a few bank credit cards.I was turned down by all of them and recieved letters stating I didnt have enough history or credit line accounts or such...well duh I was trying to get started.well eventually I got approoved with a secured credit card with a 300 dollar limit.Although I have had a good employment history and lived in the same place for long periods of time it didnt matter...I've always payed it on time and never max it out but when I tried to up my limit to 500 they turned me down stating that It seems like I live off my card because i use around 175. a month in gas or groceries...I'm really confused now because I thought it is meaningless to own a card trying to build credit if you dont use it.Anyway ,I personally believe the banks and the housing market crash have a deep connection.They got in trouble for giving loans knowing people wouldnt be able to afford them and now the banks seem to be retaliating on us as if it were our fault.I have always been forced to purchase cars from buy here pay here lots.I dont have half the money down nor do I have a co signer which leaves me being denied off my mere 530 score.Its a cycle because the more buy heres I go to and pay off my car on time or early,It doesnt count or matter because they dont report it to the credit bureaus.same with my utilities...That should count towards our credit showing we are good payers but it un fairly does not.

 

Feb 13, 2013 05:53 AM
#10
Anonymous
Sierra Johnson

Credit is so messed up! Anyone can report anything... so because I had a medical situation that resulted in tens of thousands of unpaid bills, I may end up homeless. I was without a job and losing everything. Because there are very few jobs in my small town I started looking to the next big city which happened to be 6 hours south. I landed the big one, the job you dream of. But I can find ANY place to rent because of my credit and now I'm about to lose my job because I don't have a local place to live. What do I do???? Did I mention I have 4 children and my husband died? If you can help me... Please.

Jun 19, 2015 05:15 PM
#11
Anonymous
Fredrick

was recommended by a friend to Grandbasedata@techie.com ­when i had a low credit, he is g­ood his services are ­legit and safe  i was­ able to get a v.good­ score , i always rec­ommend them to people­ with credit related ­issues you will be gr­ateful.

Mar 01, 2017 02:03 PM
#12