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Who Does It Really Hurt?

I was recently notified that another MLS has restricted the use of the terms "MLS", "Search the MLS" or pretty much anything that has Multiple Listing Service on an agents website as a violation of the terms of being a member of that MLS subject to a fine of over $500.

Ridiculous? Well considering there are over 38,000,000 results if you type in "MLS" into Google... yes. MLS... it could mean Major League Soccer for all I care or a user that types this into a Google search.

It reminded me of a time long ago when we owned the domain name http: //www. 2v egasrealtor s.com/ which was obtained before the National Association of Realtors really made it clear the acceptable use of "REALTOR" in a domain name. (Or maybe I was a new REALTOR when I registered it and was not clear that even though I paid to be a REALTOR, I was just a Real Estate agent paying somebody to say I was a REALTOR?? LOL!!)

We had phenomenal search engine rankings at that time and more then likely somebody who did not like this success, made it a point to tell the Las Vegas Association of Realtors our use of the domain name.

Even though the argument was made that we had obtained this domain name before the clarification of the trademark used in a domain name became an issue (we are talking about the 90's here) if we did not discontinue the use, then we would be fined, banned from the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors, etc.... Basically threatened to end our way of making a living. What do we do? We gave up the domain name. Shortly thereafter, we noticed somebody else picked it up (obviously due to the great traffic). We notified the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors and the National Association of Realtors and were told it would be taken care of. Case closed..... or so we thought.

Due to the notice of "MLS" being banned from being used in advertising by a particular MLS in Illinois, I did a search to see how our old domain name was doing. Low and behold, it is still being used by some other source. Obviously, due to the non-enforcement of this I am not too happy. Somebody else is profiting off of the use of something we spent a lot of money on and forced to give up by an association we pay to be a member of. First thing done: Shoot off another letter to the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors concerning this issue:

Hello,

Six years ago we were forced to give up our domain name www.2VegasRealtors.com due to the improper use of Realtor in the domain name. We had registered and used this domain name before the clarification and the use of the term Realtor within domain names were made. I just did a check and our previous domain name that we were forced to give up by the Las Vegas Association of Realtors after a significant amount of money and time to promote the name is being used by somebody else to generate referrals. Obviously, I am not happy with this.

I brought this up to you before and was assured that it would be taken care of. Unfortunately, it has not.

It is completely unacceptable to threaten members of an association of which they are members of with fines only to not enforce trademark violations with non-members.

Thank You.

Please e-mail me with a response for action within 24 hours.

Paul Francis
CENTURY 21 Consolidated
702.592.3058

Former owner of www. 2 Vegas Realtors .com

My issue and for anybody who belongs to an association: We are paying dues to belong to an association that is supposed to look out for us! If you pay for access to a MLS... then you should be able to advertise it. I am a REALTOR. I pay dues to the National Association of REALTORS, The Greater Las Vegas Association of REALTORS, and the Nevada Association of REALTORS. I expect those dues to protect the trademark of the Association that I belong to and not fine members that pay into the Association unless they are in complete non-compliance of the use of the trademark. If your only policy is to go after members of your own association and not violators of people who do not pay and contribute into the association, then why are we paying to belong to an association that only threatens it's members???????

Associations are great, don't get me wrong. But if the association created by you with your funds is not looking after you.. then something is wrong. If the only enforcement of rules can be used against it's members that make up the association... then something is wrong with the system.

Members get penalized, but nothing happens to non-members? You've got to be kidding me! I am a member of one of the oldest fraternities in the United States.... perhaps my definition of an association is skewed by this but I think that if I pay money into something that exists due to my contributions..... then legal force should be in effect for non-paying members and not penalizing members. (Or at the least.. going after Non-Members first.)

There are currently systems underway that will dramatically reduce the way real estate agents will be making a living in a couple of years and associations have nothing to do with it unless you are part of an association that can justify their fees. Just paying dues into an association with no teeth for non-members is a waste of money. If your association only exists to police after members that make up the association, then you better wake up and smell the coffee because outside forces are changing the way business is done. (For the particular association that just implemented the use of MLS fines.... it is being done already and they have no clue.)

The bottom line: the association implementing the fines for using MLS has zero impact on non members such as myself.... I think I used MLS over 15 times in this blog. MLS, MLS, MLS... Ok... make it 18. Send me a bill and I'll get all of my internet friends together and we'll create a system to search for homes for the same cost of the bill that is more useful and we won't have to pay any association fees.... resulting in lower fees for our clients. What's next? Will Las Vegas Nevada Real Estate be banned from use in our websites? Will Howard Hughes tell us that we can't use Summerlin in our Real Estate searches?

My thoughts..... what are yours?

Paul Francis, CRS
Las Vegas Real Estate
702.592.3058

Posted by Las Vegas Real Estate - Summerlin Homes Paul Francis - (702) 592.3058 on 03/21/2007 06:01 AM

Comments (57)

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57 Comments on Who Does It Really Hurt?

MAR

2007

Don't get me going on the NAR and state associations being a bunch of scumbags that are worse than the mafia. They have a little leverage over you and they use scare tactics to get you to do what they want. They have a ton of money while you and I do not. They threaten to throw you out of the association so you comply instead of fight even if fighting is the right thing to do.

COE Violation? It's COE, not state or federal law. If you are not a member than it will not apply.

My guess is that the new owners of the domain told NAR to go pound sand.

Paul, That is a horror story, I can only imagine what this has cost you.

Paul, I had a site with the word Realtor in it, fortunately I made the change before investing too much money. Frankly I don't know what some of the local Boards are thinking. My feeling is that in a few year some of these organization will be history if they continue to operate the way they do today.

I feel your pain.

I always thought that it is a trademark violation and not just a code of ethics issue. They really need to enforce it or else it begins to lose it's trademark status.

I could see the Chicago MLS do the same thing if it was their trademarked name. But I would doube MLS by itself could have a trademark. I think they would be stupid to restrict only their members from using the term while anyone else could use it.

That is ridiculous ! We don't have that problem in Ann Arbor, several agents use MLS in their URLS

I'm not sure the public gets it............especially first time home buyers.

The associations are certainly out of control. In Connecticut they decided on a new somewhat statewide MLS and instead of closing all the little boards they nearly doubled the dues and kept them open as satellite offices. They have a monopoly and membership is a must.... Smile and Pay Up!

Well, this is the first I've heard of such a ridiculous enforcement. How in the heck are they going to keep up with the infractions? Seems like chasing the tail of the dog.

WOW Paul! I am with Tim. It should be a trademark, as well as, a COE violation. I thought one couldn't use the term "Realtor" if they weren't a Realtor.

Paul...

When I sat on our local MLS as a Director they tried to enforce a rule that would disallow the use of the letters M L S. It couldn't be done. The Attorneys involved advised our MLS Board that what they were trying to do is illegal. Put all of this in front a judge and the Multiply Listing Service would provide the judge with a good long laugh :)

TLW...ROAR!

There are numerous sites that are using the trademark Realtor (C) illegally. I have reported them numerous times to NAR - months pass and nothing happens. In one of these cases because this individual is not playing by the rules they are diverting traffic to their site by using words that we all pay for. NOT FAIR. How about a members only site here where we can all accumulate the offenders and send them along to NAR is one email. Check out QueensRealtors.com I have sent them to NAR at least 6 times over the past nine months.

In my experience, NAR's enforcement of its policy prohibiting the use of the term "Realtor" in a URL appears to be almost non-existent.

There seems to be a lot of self-preservation and control issues in regard to the MLS's holding out on becoming part of a Connecticut statewide MLS. I have yet to hear an agents say "no" I don't want to be part of a statewide MLS. It is the owners of these MLS's that are pushing their will to be separate, not the agents. There seems to be a conflict of interest.

My blood pressure is up from reading your post and I am not even personally involved. I can certainly understand your frustration.

Who does it really hurt...? The consumer who searches for words or who understands certain words when they see them in print or on the web etc and not all of the passion/history behind them. They are looking for a REALTOR and don't know that the word they should really be searching is ASSOCIATE or something similar.

This year around the super bowl I heard of so many places/people holding super bowl parties and were told by the NFL that they couldn't do that. There was a big local story about a church that was organizing a church social around a super bowl party - bring snacks, come watch the game at the church etc. They had to shut it down because they called it a super bowl party. Sometimes these things just go too far.

Another part of this that bothers me... is that very few agents understand that their board is made up of agents. That they can participate and make a difference in the rules that the board makes. Other agents are members of these boards and trying to work in real estate like everyone else. Sometimes I think each and every agent needs to get a little more involved in how that works. I'm not saying everyone should try to get on the boards etc, but I am saying I wish more agents knew how their boards and votes worked.

Paul, Isn't there a real estate term for this? The HOAs have to use it called "laches." I think I spelled that right. Hoa has to enforce the rules for all in order to be able to enforce the rules for one. If they let one person go by the wayside and violate the rules then the rule being violated is no longer valid. Right???

FYI, NAR does enforce the use of the sacred "REALTOR" word in Internet domain names, URLs, and online advertising.

They enforced it against me several years ago when I got the bright idea to buy "Knoxville-Realtor.com" and create a website with it. Soon after the NAR Internet police issued me a cease and desist order. Being the good little Realtor I am I took it down and replaced it with www.KnoxvilleMLS.com (MLS in this context stands for "Magic Listing Service". ;-)

Lo and behold, bolder and smarter people than I bought Knoxville-Realtor.com when my term expired because I thought no one else could pick it up and use it and look where it is today.

NAR, by the way, has no trademark on the term "MLS" no matter what it means.

I don't know of anything that has people involved that doesn't have its own set of problems. While, overall, I think that our NWMLS does a pretty good job, they too, in my opinion, have and will do some pretty stupid things. But, I don't know anything about how they treat URLs. You should have kept the URL so you could sell it later! Ha!

Paul the Austin board also ruled we are not to use MLS in our websites.

This has brought a lot of questions to me. If Realtor.com exists is it ran by a designated Realtor? I feel your pain about having to give up your site. I would be furious and would think about bringing a lost income suit against your association. Probably wouldn't go anywhere, but it makes me wonder how an association would enforce it against the non Realtor infractor. I would think it would be safe to say that 90-95% of all Realtors have a way potential customers/clients can search the MLS from their sites.

Again it brings me back to the infamous Realtor.com site, how do they have the ability to use the Realtor name in the URL.

Threats from Associations are much like receiving a notice from an attorney to stop so and so or action will follows. My response is always... Go for It. If an association I belonged to wanted to fine me for using a name or whatever that I had prior to their deevlopment of rules they could go pound granite rock faces into sand. Bullys come in all shapes and sizes including association and their elected board. We had an election yesterday for an educational speical option sales tax of 1 cent. Our local Board of Realtors ( 9 officers) went public with a public endorsement of it. Now No where did me or any other Realtor say we wnated this. Nor was there a vote... The Board took it upon themselves to endorse on my behalf.... Needless to say I made a few calls... not that I was against the eeducational spcial option sales tax... no in fact I voted for it... But I do not like others speaking for me without my permission implicit or not. Needless to say this is a topic for the next board meeting... So my point here is that if you let folks get by with something they will act like a bully... right or wrong... so don't let them get away with it... Call them on it.

Hi Paul.. sorry to hear that someone else is gaining from your work. just a couple thoughts. 1) you are linking to them and most likely helping their search engine efforts. I would remove those links.

I had the same issue.. had to give up my domain. I would contact NAR to get that site dropped. It should be down within a week.

Then put a watch on the domain, if they give it up you get it back. I still have mine which is in violation, just can't use it. I wonder if you had it and transfered it into your wife's name (assuming she is not a Realtor(r))

good luck putting this behind you. dont let it eat you up. ;)

The main problem is that with members they can fine you and enforce the fine in house.

With non-members they would have to actually go to court with a valid argument, and even then there is no guarantee of success, so I'm sure they only pick on people like you because they easily can.

Paul, that is unfortunate. I'm an optimist so I tend to think of the glass being half full. I try to believe this with the NAR but it just seems they have gotten so big that our needs aren't accounted for.

I remember when I first joined and asked the question "What do I get for joining?". The response was that "You get to call yourself a Realtor". They didn't really say anything else. My broker was a realtor so of course I joined. But I thought, if I was unethical I could just tell people that anyways, what could they do. That wasn't a good selling point to me from my local association.

But I am under the impression if you pay to be a part of something you should be able to use its trademark or name within in your marketing. In a sense we are all stock holders with an equal share of the NAR.

Good luck, hopefully they understand your plight.

Here is what is says about the term Realtor being used from NARs site. Realtor can be used in certain cases for domain names and emails such as www.joerealtor.com or realtorjoe@yahoo.com .

Also to answer Ken Nimmos questions about Realtor.com. Realtor.com is actually owned by NAR

III. Use on the Internet

When surfing the Web for real estate homepages, it's quite common to come across sites belonging to REALTORS^®. If you are looking to add your own electronic presence on the Internet, it is easy to get caught up in designing your own web page and choosing a domain name which will capture the attention of surfers and make you easily identifiable. Whether it is the domainname of your home page or other domain names you use to point to your home page, REALTORS^® often want to use the REALTOR^® marks as part of a domain name or address to distinguish themselves, but they must keep in mind that there are rules governing proper use of the REALTOR^® marks that must be adhered to at all times regardless of the media used. These rules are found in the National Association's Membership Marks Manual, a reference manual available on-line at REALTOR.org, explaining proper use of the REALTOR^® marks including examples of correct and incorrect uses. Here is a brief list of the principal rules affecting use of the REALTOR^® marks in domain names:

1. The term REALTOR^®, whether used as part of a domain name or in some other fashion must refer to a member or a member's firm.

2. The term REALTOR^® may not be used with descriptive words or phrases. For example, Number1realtor.com, numberone-realtor.com, chicagorealtors.org or realtorproperties.com are all incorrect.

3. For use as a domain name or e-mail address on the Internet the term REALTOR^® does not need to be separated from the member's name or firm name with punctuation. For example, both johndoe-realtor.com and johndoerealtor.com would be correct uses of the term as a part of domain names and jdoe*realtors@webnetservices.com and jdoerealtors@webnetservices.com are both correct uses of the term as part of an e-mail address.

4. The REALTOR^® block R logo should not be used as hypertext links at a web site as such uses can suggest an endorsement or recommendation of the linked site by your Association. The only exception would be to establish a link to the National Association's web site, REALTOR.org, or its official property listing site, REALTOR.com.

The public has adopted the use of all lower case letters when writing domain names, even those containing trademarks. Therefore, for purposes of domain names and internet addresses only, there is an exception to the rule on capitalization of the term REALTOR^® and it may appear in lower case letters.

Whether you use traditional print media or the Internet, it is essential to use the REALTOR^® marks in accordance with the rules and guidelines of the National Association. The REALTOR^® marks should only be used to denote membership in the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS^®.

Thank you for the clarification. I did not know that about Realtor.com. So here is another question.

Can we use Realtor in the tag lines?

The NWMLS is on a witch hunt for agents who use "MLS", "Search the MLS" and so forth, but are passing out $5,000 fines. They've also fined agents who used the terms in their Adwords campaign as well. I had the term "Search the MLS" on one of my sites and my broker told me to remove it. Unfortunately for us agents, the NWMLS is Broker(company)-owned. Their only concern is themselves, not the agents. I'll probably get fined for that statement :)

I wrote a 4 part series of blogs about Realtor.com; how it came to be, who owns it, who runs it, etc.,

The current MLS witchhunt came about as a result the NAR Professional Standards Committee made to our Code of Ethics 2 years ago.

Lots of people are putting an IDX link on their website and calling it "Search the MLS" which it is not. Odd part is that consumers don't care as long as they're getting what they want; that is, all the listings for sale in an area.

You could call it the MLS, IDX, or even HouseMart and they would still be happy.

Well I have a suggestion

---> AR --- Build an MLS System ---- Nationwide Database <-----

I for one would then be willing to pay a (sensible) monthly membership fee to use it!
You already have the network and it's a big one (and growing) so maybe that is something to consider.

Just my 2Rookie Cents

-- Jenn
American Dream Realty, Spencer County Indiana

Paul-I can't wait to see their response. Please post it in a blog as soon as you hear back from them. Too bad that so much time is spent by your local board on something as trivial as using the word "realtor" in your properly registered domain name. Shouldn't they be doing something more productive like finding realtors that are taking kick-backs from lenders? Or maybe they should be focusing on realtors that are providing poor service and misleading information to their clients. Something, anything would be better than spending the money of ITS MEMBERS on what appears to be an honest agent doing honest business. Aloha!

I dislike the rule not use the MLS terminolgy in the advertising of a website. Early on I targeted MLS and had great success but after the changes I had to stop. Our Rule 196 prevents members from targeting the terms or related terms but it doesn't do anything to non members that target the key words. What I don't get is members will be punished for using such terms as REALTOR and MLS incorrectly but nothing happens, or seems to happen, to businesses that use the words.

Some of the rational of the MLS makes sense becuase not one location, like a website that is not the actual MLS, has all the homes on the MLS except the MLS itself becuase companies choose to opt out of IDX feeds that offices like ours uses.

This is one of the most neglected duties of the NAR, enforcing our mark.

A few letters, a fine against members who use improperly and that's about it.

I'd like to see some litigation against non-members who use our mark to compete with us.

Put a few of them out of business. That would do the job.

It seems MLS is pretty much in the public domain. I wonder if it could even be a mark at this point.

NAR enforces the trademark Lenn, but if someone just flat refuses they have to go through the legal process.

Here's an example:

http://www.asktherealtor.net/

NAR's response:

"We have had many reports of his solicitations. I wish I was as optimistic as you, but this nonmember had actually out-and-out refused to comply with our request. He is now in the hands of the attorneys, so I am sure he will bite the dust, but as to how long he can drag it on, I am not sure. Hopefully they will resolve it quickly or obtain enough of a settlement that it will dissuade other nonMembers from attempting to capitalize on the membership marks for their own profit.

Have a wonderful week!

Sincerely,
Mary Newill"

"Judge" Mary Newill is NAR's first level trademark enforcer. If Mary's efforts fail she turns them over to Laurie Janik and her (NAR's legal department)

This guy will go down.

Randy Ahern

Ask The Realtor, LLC^TM
5486 Pioneer Trail
Brainerd, MN 56401

Welcome to the club.

About 2 years ago, I got e-mail from my BOR ordering me to remove my icons that said

"SEARCH MLS" and any mention of the MLS for buyers to search from my web site. Of course, I did it right away.

However, there are thousands of my competitors that advertise the MLS on their web sites. I've been waiting for 2 years for them to make a general announcement about this matter, but it appears that they just selectively go after a few. Probably because if you go on the Internet, you run into Homefinders.com.

Still no excuse to go after me and no one else.

THat's horrible! I would totally be pissed if that happend to me.

Thak god, so far, I haven't had any problems.

I feel for you. :-(

This is the data taken from the United States Patent and Trademark registration page . It has a list of over 270 entries with the letters MLS in them . I would say those who fight the fines from local boards have some precedent behind them .

P.S it is public information.

Dave Green

RE/MAX of the Wildwoods

Typed Drawing

Word Mark	MLS
Goods and Services	IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer software, namely, CD-ROMs for use in teaching typing. FIRST USE: 19810317. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19810317
Mark Drawing Code	(1) TYPED DRAWING
Design Search Code
Serial Number	76529465
Filing Date	July 15, 2003
Current Filing Basis	1A
Original Filing Basis	1B
Published for Opposition	April 6, 2004
Registration Number	2949202
Registration Date	May 10, 2005
Owner	(REGISTRANT) Thomson Learning Licensing Corporation CORPORATION FLORIDA 650 Naamans Road Claymont DELAWARE 19703
Assignment Recorded	ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record	Deirdre Stanley
Type of Mark	TRADEMARK
Register	PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator	LIVE

Amazing what they decide we can and can't do. Doesn't the NAR work for US???

Paul - Great topic. The term MLS has become so broad in our industry that everyone knows what you mean and at the end of the day your are most often referring to a gateway to the Multi List which supports their service and adds value within the industry and among the public. That being said, I do not know why the opposition is present. Likewise the term Realtor unless being misused or pirated in order to deceive the public only gains wider acceptance from "Realtors" promoting the term. I understand this is a very non-lawyer response as I am sure there are very valid trademark issues to consider.

Thank you for the post!

James

Interesting and fantastic post. I feel your frustration and aggravation. I would be severely upset as well!

I agree, if rules are rules they need to be enforced across all lines. Not picking and choosing.

Good luck out there!

We have the same rule. Can't say "Search the MLS". It is really confusing the public. Had a call yesterday from someone who didn't know Zillow wasn't the MLS and couldn't tell from Broker sites the difference between Zillow and a full MLS search of property.

MAR

2007

I too had to change a domain name, just yesterday in fact, because it had Realtor in it. I'm not too happy about it.

Thank you for all of the responses. My intention for bringing issue to this is due to the fact that we were threatened to discontinue the domain name --- back in 2001 / 2002 and told we could not re-direct the domain name, forward it, etc... We had to drop complete ownership of the domain or we would be fined by our association and of course, if you don't pay the fines, you get booted from use of the MLS.

Of course, shortly thereafter, the name was picked up by somebody else who saw the value in it. This was brought to their attention back in 2002 and forwarded to the NAR which we were told it would be taken care of. Hearing about an MLS that is going to start fining it's members $500+ for using the term MLS in their websites brought back memories... I did a search and saw that the same person still owns the mentioned domain name and there is no telling how much has been profited from it in the past 4 years.

Whatever... my point is that associations are made up of the members that pay the fees to keep it in existence. Enforcing trademark violations should be SEVERELY ENFORCED against non-members... PERIOD. Members should be warned.... if it even has legal merit.... unfortunately, we pretty much know that MLS is unenforcable in a court of law against non members.... but members of that MLS will get penalized with fines and that is who it really hurts.

I once owned the domain name www. Conrad Las Vegas . com (without spaces)... Conrad hotels came after me with full force with a team of very expensive attorneys to get ownership of that domain... I did not have the time or money to fight it so I just turned it over after they filed suit in Federal court. (Interestingly, appealls filed with Internic for ownership of the domain by Conrad Hotels were denied by Internic.)

Paul Francis, ABR

Las Vegas Nevada Real Estate

I would be furious too. That is horrible. Did they ever respond back to you?

Wonder what will happen when they get here... "ourtownmls" is owned by a brokerage, and "ourtownrealtor" is owned by a B&B. Of course "ourtown" is my home town which I didn't put in here because I don't want them to get additional traffic.

I also had to drop a well seasoned domain due to the use of "realtor". I learned from it and moved on. And since have learned to do without realtor.com. Haven't missed it a bit.

Paul,

Thanks for the post. I just received an email from NAR this week, to cease and desist use of the term, Realtor. My dues have been spent in promoting the association and the importance of working with a Realtor and yet my promotion, at no cost to the association of the same message is prohibitive. As a member, I find it unsatisfactory. I could see the validity to their request, if as a member I had done something offensive, which clearly is not the case. However I will comply. I will redirect my efforts to promote an allegiance which values the members participation in promoting the organization. I have no intentions of using any of their material in my promotions going forward. In point of fact, I cannot say that my affiliation with the organization has contributed to my bottom line!

Paul,

A member driven organization is a great idea. We need options and not a monopoly.

I think our MLS sits up at night, trying to think of ways to disrupt it's member's business. The other day they called me to tell me that the URL i was using to host my own virtual tour was in violation. Evidently, a company that has no connection to my brokerage other than I own them both, cannot host my virtual tour. Do you think the consumer actually cares who hosts the tour they watch???? NO! They just want to see images of the **** house. I hope what goes around comes around to these organizations that take our money and then try to add to it with crazy fines.

MAR

2007

Paul-- I own about 600 domain names. I've been a "squatter" for a long time. Of course, I have many real estate related domain names and I once had a couple dozen with the word "Realtor" in them. VegasRealtor, PhoenixRealtor, stuff like that...

Anyway, if it's any consolation to you, I usually sell a domain name like that for $1000. They sent me a letter and asked me how much I wanted for INSERTCITYrealtor.com - I can't remember which one they used for their initial attack.

I responded that I wanted at least $2500 for that particular name.

Well, it wasn't long after that when ICANN basically issued a legal decision and took all of the domains from me, by force...of sorts, and turned them all over to realtor.com

So, non-members do get penalized. It wasn't directly "financial" in nature, but it indirectly cost me thousands and thousands of dollars.

I keep searching for this post for updates. This should be at the top of a few forums, like Realtors & MLS Issues! What I'd like to know, is what do we do when we find a non-real estate business buying up "illegal" domains in our market? Who do we contact?

Wow, GREAT post... very informative and it sparked some great discussion. I'll be watching this one to see where it goes. Thanks for sharing with us and sorry to hear of the headaches the association has put in your way.

MAR

2007

Ok... I learned our lesson long ago and the latest MLS (oops... just got fined again) that is going to force $500 fines on it's members for using MLS (oops.... another fine) is actually owned by a bunch of long established brokers that own multiple franchises that control the MLS (oops... another so called fine) that are probably a little pissed off that they are losing control in the search engine rankings. It is not the Las Vegas association of Realtors... in fact, Las Vegas has some of the most progressive rules concerning MLS searches.

By the way.... zero response from our Association that forced us to give up our domain name.

This has to do with an entirely different city that is about to penalize it's members for using MLS in their websites but will have ZERO teeth in enforcing non-members.

That's what happens when a bunch of Major brokers have control of an MLS. The little guy gets crushed.

I still don't understand how an entity can enforce anything regarding a name or group of letters that is trademaked by a privately held company that has nothing to do with the NAR or any local Board office. I posted the Entry from the copyright office with the details previously, surprisingly no one noticed.

David,

Actually I did notice and thank you for posting that. Hopefully, somebody finds it useful when they receive a fine from a board attempting to enforce this. I know I would use it if I had to!

Thanks!

MAR

2007

Here in Minnesota, they just passed it last year that we cannot include MLS in our domain names, nor can it be used on our site for searching, "search the MLS". Their point of view is that the MLS is not a portal for consumers, but a devise to be used between Realtors for passing information about listings. Consumers do not have access to the MLS, only us Realtors do. The state board wants to make sure the public knows and understands they are not searching the actual mls system we use but only getting basic info from it. They have a point. Also,with the requirement to not have MLS in the domain name, I believe 4 companies that did have it in their actual business name were allowed to keep the name as long as there was a disclaimer on each page referencing the MLS domain name that consumers were NOT actually searching the MLS.

While some Realtors might hate their board for requesting dues from us, they do benefit us now and then. Case in point, Minnesota is trying to sales tax real estate commissions...who do you think is going to bat for us...well, our state board is.

MAR

2007

Jennifer,

I prefer targeting Las Vegas Nevada Real Estate as a keyword term for our website but if you pull up M L S dot com you'll notice a particular company that is using "Access the MLS" and "View the MLS" under their Minnesota page and using Multiple Listing Service MLS in their page title for Minnesota.

Minnesota is doing a great job in enforcement. Make sure you read their disclosure at the bottom of their page.

That domain name must have cost a ton of money and REALTORS indirectly paid for it at their own expense.

APR

2007

I believe the NAR's coercion of their members to not use the trademark REALTOR in a URL with an area descriptor is aimed at only one thing: forcing the real estate consumer to realtor.com. The secondary aim is to force their members to join realtor.com. Realtor.com is a huge money-maker. Their action is anti-competitive as it attempts to limit consumer choice, or to forceably steer consumers to NAR paid advertisers, goods and services.

The NAR understands very well how internet marketing works, how search engines return results. Not permitting members to use Realtor in the URL name with an area descriptor when most consumers type in "jersey city realtors" or "miami realtors" (examples only, fill in your own area) when searching for a realtor, the intent and effect is obvious. Realtor.com optimizes for all Association areas, big and small-- they use keywords and other optimization to achieve search engine results for those areas. Therefore, a search for "jersey city realtors" will put realtor.com in the top 1-10 results, most usually, absent any strong or long-lived jersey city realtor websites.

The real estate consumer is best served by Realtors "on the ground", and NOT by a national website using keywords to snag visitors. And, when the consumer reaches realtor.com on a search for Jersey City Realtors, just how difficult will it be for them to actually find a Jersey City Realtor? Drill down forever. And, when the consumer does find some Jersey City Realtors, will he find them all? Will he find the best and most professional area Realtors? No, he will find only those who've paid to be listed.

The DOJ, as most of us know, has filed a lawsuit against the NAR, and this issue compliments their complaints of anti-trust activity. It would serve all Association Boards to pay close attention to this suit in that when or if they adopt/enforce NAR policies, and these are found to be illegal, the Boards will be on the front lines for lawsuits by consumers and member Realtors.

APR

2007

Pam,

I believe the NAR has a valid point in enforcing the trademark and it's spelled out in their use of the Trademark by members of the Association. You bring up some interesting points concerning R.com --quite surprisingly the time we were forced to give up the domain name above is when there was a big push for paying for enhanced services on R.Com and I had never really thought about that.

My big issue though is the non-enforcement of the continued use of our old domain name and it has been brought to the attention of our local association and the National association with to this day, no enforcement. The exact same thing will happen to members of an MLS that have MLS in their domain and are forced to give it up. Somebody else will pick up that domain and use it, much like the people who picked up our domain... as a source of generating referrals to resell to REALTORS.

Many corporations seek out trademark violations of the use of it's domain name and the laws are getting more and more complex on this issue and actually favor the violated coporation or association. A quick search on the internet and you can find multiple references where corporations go after and win their cases with squatters. I believe there was new legislation passed last year that can actually penalize squatters who willingly violate a trademark with the use of it in their domain name up to $100,000 plus attorneys fees. (Obviously I am not an Attorney and I don't keep up with issues like this so it's up to the reader to verify this... maybe somebody has a little more time to research this then I do.)

Unfortunately, our association made us give up a doman name but seems to have done nothing to enforce the same rules on a non-member and that is the true travesty.

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Las Vegas Real Estate - Summerlin Homes Paul Francis - (702) 592.3058

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Prudential Americana Group - REALTORS

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