Ar_home_b_search
 

...the real estate industry leaders of old watch from their box seats with nice, cold beers in hand.

On Monday, I published a blog post drawing attention to the fact that the founders of Zillow and Trulia are known for successfully leading companies that dis-intermediate industries.  My intention, by posting in such a sensationalist manner, was to draw attention to my belief that the long time leaders of our industry have not done their part to stay ahead of the innovation curve. Now, because of that lack of new innovation, outsider-led companies like Zillow and Trulia are among the most powerful and influential companies in our industry.

I have always supported the real estate practitioner's use of these outsider-led, venture-backed companies because I believed that the innovation and competition offered by these companies would compel the traditional real estate companies to step up their game and in the process, provide benefit to everyone involved: the consumer, the industry and of course, the businesses involved.

However, the issue traditional companies and leaders face now is that they have not stepped up their game and presented adequate new ideas to compete with these larger, new innovators who are encroaching on their territory.   Instead, they have rolled over to these companies, given up their listings to these "newer and better versions of themselves", and in the process, created a power-shift to those who seek to change the real estate business as we know it.

Do these leaders have a genuine interest in the real estate professionals, or did they choose this industry solely because they viewed it as vulnerable to a major business model change? 

To Trulia and Zillow: Continue what you're doing.  The new empowerment and value you are bringing to the consumer is admirable.

To the Traditional Real Estate Leaders: Step up your game.  Invest in in-house technological developments and force the new generation of real estate innovators to see you as serious competition.  Give them a run for their money!

 

*It's interesting to note that Trulia moved from last place in the group to #2 in less than a one year time-frame.

**I've been working in this industry since I was 14 years old, and have been an agent since I was 18. I've written this post as a plea to my industry leaders, the people I have looked up to for more than the last 10 years, to fulfill their fiduciary responsibility to their agents, and brokers, and re-enter the fight to create the most cutting edge real estate technology that our collective home buying and selling clients deserve.

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Seattle real estate search 

 

37 Comments on As Trulia and Zillow fight for King of the Mountain...

JUL
30
2008
848,742 Points 153 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Well said, Jonathan. I think it has to do with age. The people leading the more established companies are older and as Jeff Foxworthy would say, about dress, "When you hit 40 you jump off the fashion train". Now he was speaking about style but it could also be applied to new innovations.

7:36pm • #1
548,132 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Jonathan, I have been of this opinion for some time and have tried to get our local association to think of the global world instead of our little neck of the woods but it is difficult. When it is too late and we look back it will be very obvious what we should have done.

7:50pm • #2
518,767 Points 5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jonathan - I agree with you, and I think that most of the powers in the real estate industry had hopes that the internet would have no impact on the market. They were wrong, and now they are so far behind, that it will be hard to catch up.

8:03pm • #3

Hi Jonathan,

It was interesting to read your blogs posts on this.

I think I get what you are saying and wanted to clarify Trulia's position. We absolutely are not in competition with the (traditional) real estate Industry and broker and franchisor web sites. Sure, we have similar features and have an overlap in audience, but our role in the ecosystem is completely different. We see our business model today and in the future as being very complementary. We are in fact a huge traffic driver to most of the broker and franchisor sites in the US and often their single most cost-efficient online marketing partner.

Competition and innovation are of course great things and we've seen more in the 3 years since Trulia launched in late 2005 than in a long long time in this Industry. It was long overdue. I'm sure there will be much much more in the coming years.

Great to see you in Inman Connect!

Look forward to catching up again soon.

Pete

 

 

 

 

Pete Flint from Trulia.com
8:56pm • #4

Jon,

As someone who works with some of the largest brokers in the country, I can assure you that they've stepped up in any number of ways. Perhaps you're simply out of touch with that segment of the real estate industry because the highly professional, successful agents in those companies don't participate in ActiveRain or Localism and are unlikely to do so.

I've heard talk of dis-intermediating agents, and agents becoming irrelevant, since the dawn of the personal computer. It hasn't happened, and it isn't happening.

Your traffic stats are highly misleading when it comes to sites like ColdwellBanker.com. There's the national site, which is all you're reporting, and a number of large regional / local sites that, in the aggregate, probably draw more traffic than Zillow or Trulia.

The large brokers have proven business models. It remains to be seen whether either Zillow or Trulia do.

Joe Zekas
10:12pm • #5
493,638 Points 222 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Joe: Nice to have you pipe in here. Just curious...could you give me some examples of these large brokerages you refer to here that have 'stepped' up? And perhaps you could share from your perspective exactly in what ways they've done so? I would very much value your input....

 

10:26pm • #6
163,767 Points 85 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Joe, I am not out of touch. Earlier today I stumbled onto Remax.com (the leading national real estate brokerage site) and was shocked to discover that it's site is "powered" by eNeighborhoods.

No matter how you spin it, that is ridiculous!

I didn't really have time to comment right now, Joe just sucked me in. :)  So sorry to the rest of the commenters. I will be back soon to respond.  Thanks for commenting!

10:33pm • #7
13 Featured Posts

This is probably one of the best posts (and spot-on) I've read in a long, long time.

10:43pm • #8
13 Featured Posts

Pete

I read your comment and very PC, it was.  But, in fact, you are not complementary (this is not a bad thing or negative in anyway) you just did what real estate brokers should HAVE DONE THEMSELVES.

Instead of going out there and casting their own net (the traditional RE brokers), they stood back and took an "old school" wait and see attitude with technology---during that time companies like Zillow and Trulia (and small little agents like myself) passed them by.

My Web site and blog get more traffic than MOST of the mid-size to smaller brokerages combined.

It's funny to hear the "good old boys" talk about the "changin' times."  I tell them the times "they aren't a changin,' they changed two or three years ago"

As for you guys being my competition--let's say it like it is---You are my competition AND THAT'S ok.

You've done nothing wrong.  If anyone has done anything wrong it is the traditional brokerages for not keeping up.

If you are an agent working for a not technologically proficient firm, get out---get out now.  Because if they do not have a strong online presence ALREADY, IN THE SEARCH ENGINES, you are dead in the water.

10:52pm • #9
109,644 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jon,

Good post.

I actually don't think that the industry is as asleep at the wheel as you think they are. Several brokerage sites are doing a bunch of cool stuff, including adding valuations (frequently by partnering with Zillow to add Zestimates); many have added Virtual Earth; several have added recently sold data; many have solid email programs for buyers; etc. There is more innovation among brokerage sites than people usually give them credit for, in my opinion.

11:03pm • #10
13 Featured Posts

Spencer

Asleep at the wheel?  They aren't even in the car!

11:12pm • #11
187,781 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Excellent post.  I've been wondering for years if the Real Estate industry was ever going to take its head out of the proverbial sand.  As a Realtor I feel that they have failed us and themselves. 

A very smart man once said to me that "The fish stinks from the head down!"  If NAR had taken a true leadership role and had educated the boards and the brokers, had kept up with the times perhaps the brokerage firms may have paid attention and taken all of this seriously.

I never thought I'd see the day when individual Realtors could get more traffic than the brokerage firms and rank up on page one nationwide alongside of them for generic keywords meant to drive traffic and leads to the big boys!

I'm with Kevin, good ole boys, so busy patting each other on the backs, we just slipped by them! 

Maybe it's not such a bad thing, hey Kevin?  Would you really want less competent people/institutions ahead of you? 

Did you ever dream really BIG?  And then make it happen? That's what has happened here, a bunch of people dreamed big, saw a weakness and carved a niche.  I really cannot fault that.  It is said that all great things begin with a dream.

Kevin, I don't totally agree with your last statement.  A technologically proficient firm will not really aid the individual Realtors in the way that their own online presence will; you and I are a testament to that.  Each of us has flown by them all.  Kevin, you and I, we are dreamers too...

 

11:22pm • #12

Adding Zillow widgets on a brokerage website is innovation?? They are farming out every conceivable piece of their site to someone more capable of providing the innovation because they were asleep at the wheel the last few years. Now they can't catch up, so it's patchwork. They are ignoring the SEO implications (for the most part) of how their sites are built. They need only look to their search engine results for proof that their traffic is stagnant. These huge firms should be dominating the search engines instead of relying on brand recognition to drive consumers straight to their site.

11:22pm • #13
JUL
31
2008
109,644 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bob,

Yes I think it's very forward-thinking of brokerages like Zip and Redfin to add home valuation information onto their sites. They've seen the enormous consumer appeal that valuations can have, and they decided to add that funcitonality to their websites. I think that's laudable.

I do agree with you though that brokerage sites should be dominating the search engines much more than they currently are. Trulia OWNS seo traffic, not brokerage sites.

12:11am • #14
362,055 Points 5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp

My broker-in-charge 'offered me up'  to help our CB franchise teach a little bit about blogging and Active Rain, etc.  They weren't interested as they want to drive the agents to blog on the CB blogs they set up on the CB site for agents.  Amazing.  Go Trulia!!  (I want to work for Kevin in Miami!)

3:44am • #15
848,742 Points 153 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Actually eneighborhoods is only one of Remax programers, the other is Reliant. WE got stuck with eneighborhoods in Mi and it was terrible. I am no longer with Remax but the region in April went to Reliant and their searches have increased.

I know what you are saying, Laurie and Kevin, the big companies that aren't doing SEO do not come up with good placement in Ann Arbor, actually the local, traditional companies that hired technology people do. So at least their owners get it.

KW and Remax come up only if you put their search terms in.

So I do agree with Jon they are behind the times, I have good placement for the search terms I feel buyers will be looking for but I have worked my butt off to get there.... and will continue to do so.

7:32am • #16

Rich,

A partial list of our clients is at our Web site: http://databasedads.com/a-clients.html.

Sorry, but I won't go into detail on what people are doing. It should be obvious that not all of their efforts are visible to  the casual Web visitor. Think: large traditional brokerages still acquire a large majority of their clients by referral / repeat business, and they're being serviced online.

People like Bill Raveis in Connecticut have been technology innovators for a long time. Not in a way that gets talked about at Inman, but in ways that have satisfieed consumers and agents.

Jon,

I'm not talking about the national sites. In any event, I firmly believe that there's been far too much focus on the glitzy toys on the part of smaller players in the industry.

Joe Zekas
7:48am • #17

Until Zillow or Trulia posts a profit --any word on that Pete or Spencer? they are not threatening anyone. (They face extinction if the VC money runs out. ) If they allow brokers/agents to get traffic/make money, the brokers/agents will continue to use them & support them. You can't argue with a free listing service that has SEO guns.  Change that equation and things can get nasty -- the brokers that giveth, can taketh away.

Both these companies were built by technologists, not industry people, and they are VC funded, meaning they will sell to the highest bidder or go public.  The VC investment virtually decrees it.  The VC end game, as in real estate, is a closed sale.  It's the new owners the industry has to worry about.

 

jf.sellsius
8:04pm • #18
187,781 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog

And once they go public the stockholders will demand that the company be put to its highest and best use, to generate the largest possible profits.  They WILL sell leads.  Advertising costs will skyrocket.  Realtors will be on their knees, once again. 

9:37pm • #19
13 Featured Posts

How long will it take from traditional brokerages to scan Google and see what/how Zillow/Trulia are doing?

Who cares if Zillow or Trulia sell leads?  Traditional real estate companies get what they deserve. They did not innovate and let these companies actually take the food right out of their hands.

It's funny actually.  These VC companies are already running out of cash.  Did anyone notice at Inman this year that there was NO swag.  No t-shirts, stress balls, pens...nothing!!!

This is one of the MOST important posts that have been written in AR this whole year---and only 19 comments?  I guess if Blogging Bertha authored this post there would be 300 comments.

 

 

9:53pm • #20
13 Featured Posts

Laurie

I'm actually happy that this is going down the way it is.  If REALTOR.com is basically not relevant, why would we worry about other "competitors." 

Why do so many people worry about Trulia and Zillow and not Realtor.com?  They are all the same thing to me EXCEPT that WE pay for Realtor.com to turn around and charge us AGAIN.  That is the REAL CRIME, NO?

9:58pm • #21
865,593 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

This is kind of humorous.  The big guys aren't innovating at all.  They are just farming out to smaller companies and their franchise holders to do the innovating, while they sit and watch. 

Any of these big companies would be in a much better position to push the envelope than little brokers around the country.  Instead, franchise holders and local brokers are having to buy solutions and put together mash-ups on their own. 

Where is C21 on A|R?  RE/MAX?  CB?  They aren't here talking to agents.  They aren't here to see where technology is going.  There are scores of their brokers and franchisees... but no corporate.  Heck, like the NAR, they are showing that in order to get current they will have to be dragged kicking and screaming...

10:02pm • #22
354,772 Points 137 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

IMHO, one of the most challenging issues here is that real estate industry leaders are still trying to figure out the nuances of web-speak.  It's not just a numbers game, it's a totally different philosophy of business that requires an understanding of the fundamental strength and weaknesses of the real estate industry AND the dynamics of web based search and social interaction. 

At a time when the real estate industry is facing some of it's biggest challenges, it's not easy to see one's way through the fog.  The fact remains that brokers still are the primary access points for real estate data; without their implicit or complicit cooperation in data gathering, most of the sites mentioned have a much bigger hill to climb...for now

Where brokers have failed most is in their failure to harness this capital to capture the conversation around the real estate transaction.  Huge data pools which don't provide additional Value to the mind of a consumer tend to stale quickly in the online world.  When consumers see listings online for a year or two, they want to know about WHAT this means for them...translate please! And now...not days later when my lead is finally routed to an agent who contacts me.

Conversation takes cooperation online and in real life.  Traditional norms in the real estate industry have trended towards competition.  In this new world, that may turn out to be an unscalable wall...or at least an endeavor which will require a whole new mind.

10:05pm • #23
13 Featured Posts

One would think that the large brokerages would like to get on board with this "stuff" to add value to their agents.

In my opinion, there is a huuuuuuuuuuge opportunity for a VERY tech forward brokerage to open up.

People are missing the boat.  If a brokerage opened up with all this available technology in place to make it easy for their agents, that would be huge.

10:07pm • #24
354,772 Points 137 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Absolutely Kevin.  But the longest distance between 2 points is sometimes between our ears.  It's a mindshift issue and until there is real comprehension, it won't happen.  In some ways, it's like counting pennies and letting dollars float away.  It's also about being willing to be humble and explore another approach....

10:13pm • #25
110,915 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I especially love the kudos you give because it's appropriate, they got out there in full entreprenuerial style (Trulia and Zillow).  I also like what you say at the end....continue, traditional companies, to step up your game.

My perspective comes from working with a company aligned with Trulia.  Guess what that has done? It has opened up our top brass to new ideas.  So instead of it winding up that Trulia does all the work, our company is now doing things apart from the IDX aspect of it, and are enhancing our web presence in ways that four yrs ago I would have said would be unheard of.  I'm so happy with the changes (tech)(and web) happening in my company.  Oh and btw I get leads from my Howard Hanna site, my outside blog, my AR blog, and yes Trulia!  As far as I'm concerned, it's all good.

Let me just be clear; competition has always allowed those who wish to succeed to step up their game. My company has become so much more agent centric in the last year and I am so happy about it.

10:14pm • #26
13 Featured Posts

Carole

"It's all good" is what continues to keep us Realtors behind the 8 ball.

10:21pm • #27
110,915 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I'm sorry if you feel you are behind the 8 ball but I don't! I hear what people are saying, that companies need to be providing the tech services and embracing technoogy not ignoring or running from it.  Kevin, I am saying that my company is embracing it, not hiding. 

10:30pm • #28
110,915 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

And Kevin I also agree with Bob's comment above. There are things I can do that don't require my Company to provide me. And the 'stuff' my Company is doing for me is so much more useful to me than them spending a ton of money on what Trulia is already doing.  Zillow is a different story, I don't think they have done as good a job as they should have by now..

10:35pm • #29

I agree that the traditional real estate industries have stagnated while 3rd pary companies have filled the creative gap. I personally think that this is more of a misunderstanding of the new consumer by traditional RE. The new consumer actually wants to be asked to interact, and not just fill out forms. They want videos, photos, community and interaction. I say that Trulia jumped up the ranks because they listened to the VOICES of the consumers.

11:34pm • #30
13 Featured Posts

Carole

I didn't say I feel that I am behind the 8 ball---the attitude that most agents have with regard to "I'll take what I can get---" keeps "them" behind the 8 ball.

I don't really look to Trulia or Zillow to help me get something.  I can do more, better on my own.

As REALTORS we gave all of our info to REALTOR.com and they couldn't make it work. Now we are giving it to Trulia and Zillow in hopes of them making it work.  We don't WE JUST KEEP our own info and make it work for ourselves???????????

 

 

11:47pm • #31
13 Featured Posts

The ONLY thing that Trulia did was max out the search engines.  They aren't this great consumer advocate.  The made themselves findable on the internet.  Period.

11:48pm • #32

Interesting discussion.

11:55pm • #33

What has Trulia done that is so innovative?

It's just for sale listings on a googlemap. Big whoop. I agree with Kevin -- their secret sauce is SEO, not product innovation.

11:56pm • #34
AUG
03
2008
1 Featured Post

Jonathan,

This is all too familiar. Kelly Blue Book accomplished the same feet for car values beginning five years ago. Their (KBB) inaccuracy in values took more time to materilize than zillow. Your point is well taken that marketing is perception. We must be prepared to constructively dispute this information with the clients best interests in mind.

12:24am • #35
AUG
04
2008
102,315 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi - Just sharing thoughts from someone who works in technology for a larger firm... When I hear questions/comments about this I think we are not really comparing apples-to-apples. On one side you have a technology company in real estate and on the other side you have a real estate company offering technology. Their budgets and goals are very different.  If some of the 'larger' companies stepped up their investments in technology... yes there could be some cool stuff - but I don't know if their investment could ever compare to the investments of the 'technology' companies. I love competition. I definitely think it brings more out, but at the same time... I think there is a place for balance and partnerships. Mutual benefits. I don't think the existing set ups/api offerings have that worked out yet (and I don't know what it would be), but wouldn't that be cool if it could be more of a collaboration instead of a battle?

4:55pm • #36
SEP
18
2008
1 Featured Post

I think that Carole Cohen hits the nail on the head. I welcome the chance to use real estate search platorms that make life easier for a real estate agent.

Take another look at the post and comment thread. The original poster and most of the commenters focus on what is best for the real estate professional. What serves agents and brokers best?

Perhaps a better question is, "What serves real estate consumers best?"

I think that a large measure of the success at Trulia and Zillow is meeting consumer needs and expectations for rich property search better than Realtor.com and better than our little IDX solutions. The fact that their business models invite real estate professionals to share their success in ways that are no cost and low cost is an outcome we should greet enthusiastically.

The real estate industry's attempts to be the gatekeepers of information have failed. It is a new world. You do not have to be a card-carrying member of NAR to be a member of the real estate community. The online world connects members of the community in a far reaching fashion. Who really constitutes the real estate community?

  • Some 50% licensed real estate agents do not belong to NAR but they are members of the larger real estate community.
  • Buyers are members of the real estate community.
  • Sellers (including FSBOs) are members of the real estate community.
  • Homeowners are members of a larger real estate community even when they are not selling their homes.
  • Vendors who meet the needs of all these groups are members of the real estate community.

Real estate agents and brokers using Trulia and Zillow are not "rolling over" to anyone. Smart brokers and agents are assessing excellent new business tools and they are using them to attract buyers and sellers. Vendors and sales professionals are collaborating to create better tools to make agents more productive with a happier client base. That is a reason to celebrate, not denigrate newcomers to the industry who make our jobs more fun and profitable.

1:54pm • #37

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Jon Washburn

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Originally created to interact with the ActiveRain community this blog has taken on a new life as my time leading ActiveRain has waned. My writing has now taken a turn to chronically the joys and challenges of creating a new community: DailyTicket.


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