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It's been a while since our last installment, so just to recoup:

We've been reviewing and dissecting, in order, each of the AcitveRain Community Guidelines at length to ensure that we're all on the same page, and are fully aware of the expressed expectations for members who participate in our valued community.

~    o    ~    o    ~    o    ~    o    ~    o    ~    o    ~

Our next guideline reads as follows:

"We encourage free speech and defend everyone's right to express unpopular points of view. But we don't permit hate speech which contains slurs or the malicious use of stereotypes intended to attack or demean a particular gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or nationality."

This particular guideline has recently been the focal point of some rather exhaustive discussions/introspection. There are times when the actual guideline itself isn't debated so much as is how the guidelines are/should be enforced. Suffice it to say, that the administrators of this platform do genuinely attempt to apply/enforce all of these guidelines and the Terms of Service fairly and equitably to all members. In the final analysis, we have a very serious duty and responsibility to our members to ensure and maintain a safe, respectful environment of participation. The decisions we must make at times are never easy or pleasant, but our intentions are always for the benefits of the greater membership.

With that said, let me simply make a few observations as it relates to this guideline:

ActiveRain Membership ISN'T FREE!

Your involvement here has a cost. And it's called RESPONSIBILITY and RESPECT.

Membership here on ActiveRain is a privilege, not a given right. Your right of continued active participation is earned by the manner in which you consistently conduct yourself and the way you treat your fellow professionals.

Blogging, by it's very root and nature, serves to evoke and stimulate meaningful discussion and debate. Many times these discussions involve contrary, dissenting, or unpopular points of view. How we deal with such differences reveals the very core of our character. It is entirely possible to express our views and argue the merits of our position without resorting to hateful personal attacks and malicious slurs. It's completely acceptable to 'agree-to-disagree' without compromising your opinions/convictions. While it's many times easy to become emotionally embroiled in spirited debate, we must strive to keep issues professional, and not personal.

And, as those who have an intimate understanding of the Fair Housing Act, you would think we would possess a heightened awareness/sensitivity towards protected classes, and a clear understanding of those actions which constitute a violation against those classes. That's not to say that a violation of our community guidelines necessarily equates to a violation of Fair Housing. But I think the underlying priniciples are similar.

Take a lesson from a recent incident where a real estate agent lost their license for a full year because of an inappropriate comment they made on a blog post. Being suspended from ActiveRain is one thing. But most of us can ill afford to have our license revoked!

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55 Comments on "Free Speech has a Cost" - The ActiveRain Community Guidelines Re-Visited

AUG
13
2008
1,480,001 Points 275 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Now, having my blogging privileges suspended is a a pretty huge deterrent.  I'm so addicted, I'd get the DT's. 

4:32pm • #1
294,308 Points 15 Featured Posts Called Shot Master

Well, some of us would save money if our license was revoked - just kidding.

I'm keeping mine till I'm done with real estate by choice.

4:40pm • #2

Rich, Who is the judge, jury and executioner?  Or is it a jury behind close doors?  The inquisition revisited?  Or just plain common sense and courtesy should rule?  Take care. Aj :-)

4:43pm • #3
1,225,278 Points 262 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Rich...

Some things should be obvious ... but if they were, there wouldn't be a need for this post.

4:44pm • #4
548,980 Points 110 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Gracious Rich...

Can you imagine how pleasant things could be if folks would just agree to disagree? :)

Thank you for continuing this series. The Members pay more attention when this topic is coming from a Builder :)

TLW...ROAR!

4:52pm • #5
848,632 Points 153 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Always good to revist this, as people sign up all the time, should be common knowledge, unfortunately it is not.

5:01pm • #6
178,878 Points 20 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

I am so amazed that you have to constantly bring this up over and over again.  The Golden Rule and Common Sense, where in the world are they these days?  I don't get it.

5:09pm • #7
493,598 Points 222 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

AJ:  One would think that common sense and courtesy would rule the day. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case.

Richard: To some, it's obvious. To others, a 2X4 upside the head seems to work better....

TLW:  I commited myself to completing this series. I started it shortly after I was hired by AR and feel it has tremendous value to our members....

Missy: Repetition is the key to effective education!

5:12pm • #8
284,607 Points 37 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Rich, I was sad when I first saw this because it is such a shame that time and posts have to be wasted because of the lack of courtesy and just professionalism.  But, we do need this series and appreciate your time and efforts to keep us all focused on the positive goals!

5:27pm • #9
936,730 Points 361 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Rich, I'm happy to see this visited again. Participating on ActiveRain is definitely a privilege and has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. If folks want free speech then they can start their own blog and free speech all they want. This site is a professional site and has professional guidelines    set forth by the founders and owners. I'm not quite sure why that is difficult for some to understand.

5:34pm • #10
733,377 Points 136 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Fortunately, the huge majority of members - maybe 99.5% - do seem to follow this guidelineis, even with so many newer members.  One way to keep it that way, of course, is t repeat explanations like this periodically.  You and others on the ActiveRain team do a marvelous job of maintaining order!

6:20pm • #11
329,706 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

can't afford to be suspended from AR either. Just scrolling above slightly, we know all of these people who commented above, some in person (yea), but most by reputation and communication. All pros each one of them. Nobody can afford to offend or lose what happens here.

6:30pm • #12
Localism Sponsor Hit Router

Rich, wonderful post, and I greatly appreciate the privilege of being involved with AR, all of the support that comes with it and the awesome people I learn from.  Thanks for your commitment to see this through.  This is a very welcome message.   

7:06pm • #13
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Great post - just sorry to see that it is necessary.

7:27pm • #14

You go!  I agree full heartedly.  I'm not interested in listening to someones' slanted view on a topical subject, more less a highly discrimiating view.  Let's have discussions about something we don't know about and most importantly, something we all can use in our business.  I enoyed your blog....good luck with your business and I hope you continue to go after those who seem to have a chip on their shoulders. 

7:42pm • #15
160,341 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

Rich- I think some of the offenders would never say the things they write, in person.  Somehow, typing away on their computers gives them the feel of anonymity.  It's a shame that they constantly need to be reminded that the rules of decent behavior, not to mention legal consequence, do apply.

7:58pm • #16

Well said.  I have been surprised at some of the posts that seem top attack or suggest unethical activities.  While I have posted some silly ones, were I a broker/owner and one of my agents posted some of those unethical things, I would have a serious problem with our company reputation they were playing with.

8:01pm • #17
240,949 Points 32 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Another great post Rich...I am wondering if I missed something since this issue has to be re-visited again...glad I did, if I did.

8:09pm • #18
174,776 Points 5 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Desperate posts call for desperate measures. It's a shame it's necessary but I'm relieved to see that the powers that be have instilled protocol that must be respected or be-gone.  I've read too much here that just doesn't belong on a social business platform.

8:13pm • #19
402,631 Points 40 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Hi Rich...Thank you for guiding us once again.  It's amazing that we, as adults, need to be reminded to be decent.

Kate

8:13pm • #20
865,393 Points 50 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

So, Sparky...  Maybe there should be a series that people have to test through in order to post.  Or not...  Maybe there should be a bunch of these sent out in the Daily A|R mail to all of the members.

8:15pm • #21
543,237 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Rich,

I strongly agree with the spirit of this post! But just out of curiosity which punishment is harsher...losing your real estate license for a year or being banned forever from Active Rain??? Please don't answer this too quickly!!! Thanks,   Fran

8:17pm • #22
679,738 Points 18 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Rich,  I think this whole thing is similar to what one instructor teaches real estate students -- it is okay to talk about the property (e.g. the topic and agree or disagree), but one never can talk about  the people (don't make it personal).  It is really very simple - there is no reason for personal attacks EVER.

8:23pm • #23
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

I haven't been around long enough to have encountered the disagreements you are referring to but feel secure that you are in the cat-bird seat to oversee the fairness of this great network. On the behalf of everyone, I thank you.

9:30pm • #24
1,254,459 Points 242 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Rich- You did good with this one! I don't snitch on the people who have said nasty and hateful things to me, I just delete their comments and move on. Debate is healthy and opposing viewpoints is great, but we must do it respectfully. I don't want my license revoked! And I certainly never want to be banned without rain!

9:47pm • #25
242,512 Points 30 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I have officially hit the big time with my first "hater" comment on my AR blog.    I guess it means I've finally hit a nerve with my competition...   oh well  ::delete::

9:47pm • #26
405,635 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

"Blogging, by it's very root and nature, serves to evoke and stimulate meaningful discussion and debate. Many times these discussions involve contrary, dissenting, or unpopular points of view. How we deal with such differences reveals the very core of our character."

Thanks for this particular comment. It;s why I am glad I found Active Rain and why I am glad it embraces and encourages free expression without abuse!

Keep on keepin' on!

9:49pm • #27
127,777 Points Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

Hi Rich- Thanks for re-visiting the AR community guidelines. It all goes back to the Golden Rule..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!"  Its OK to promote yourself, but when you put someone else down in the process of building yourself up or proving a point...there is something wrong with that.

9:49pm • #28
1,303,417 Points 313 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Rich - you do such a good job of community the guidelines that AR has enacted in a way that anyone can understand, without sounding authoritarian yet speaking with authority. The message is clear that violations are not tolerated and that the risks go far beyond our reaches. The challenge, of course, is in the enforcement and the fair and consistent treatment of all offenders - sorry, my HR hat is on. :)

Jeff

9:50pm • #29
168,640 Points 10 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Rich, I'm surprised that you would even need to write this post.  I am sure there was a very good reason though.  We are all professional here, at least I hope we are.  Civility, common sense and remembering what our mom taught us should help all of us stay on track.

10:24pm • #30
428,818 Points 77 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Rich, along with the free speech has to come some common sense. If it's not something that you wouldn't want to read about yourself...don't write it. Don't publish it.

I have begun reading what I write as if it were from someone else but about me. Great rule of thumb.

Thank you for the reminder. We all need it that blog on a consistant basis. I think I mentioned once that I wouldn't want your job. But, you're doing a great job. Later in the rain~Deb

10:28pm • #31
829,425 Points 156 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

From all that I have seen, there is so much less of this of going on that it is now barely a trace. Good Guidelines are always appreciated and with all the amazing things shared here, you must be more than pleased with what you are seeing out there.

10:30pm • #32
AUG
14
2008
591,941 Points 22 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I completely live by the agree-to-disagree belief. In my last post, I tried VERY hard to say what I needed to say, without stirring the pot.

12:15am • #34
880,148 Points 210 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

What happened to 'entitlement'?  You mean we aren't 'entitled' to say and do whatever we want? :)

Your expounding on the guidelines like this is bringing a tremendous amount of depth to each Rich....

Now...can we get the link on the home page in BIG BOLD RED letters so they will click on it. How about a flashing Community Guidelines???

12:31am • #35
6 Featured Posts

By our very trade and licensing we have agreed to be ETHICAL and perform our business in a PROFESSIONAL manner with integrity.  Anything less than that and you are in the wrong profession.  For those who lack simple common sense, they probably shouldn't be in the business let alone blogging. 

4:41am • #36
513,553 Points 88 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp

I read that post...I would say if you want to talk about someone of some story that irks you...just don't use real names or companies by name.

6:44am • #37
747,168 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

Can I say that I "hate" hate speech.....  Seriously though there are things that garner hate and sometimes that needs to come across.  I hate fraud.  I hate unethical people.  I know you're talking about the politically correct hate speech, but I'm not a PC kinda guy.  For me....there's right and wrong.  Just b/c you may hate someone or something, it doesn't mean that you need to blab it to the world.  What's said can never be taken back.  Therefore it's important to measure words b/4 they're spoken.

9:17am • #38
608,292 Points 26 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Attended Rain Camp Called Shot Master

I agree with Neal above. I wrote some things about a bank I was upset with and edited it to take out the bank's name. Since this is a public forum much of the time, I feel a responsibility to be careful about what and how I express myself. Look at what's coming back to haunt people on MySpace - and it could reflect poorly on any one of us professionally if we write without keeping the Golden Rule in mind.

10:29am • #39
389,732 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bottom Line: Never write anything that don't want someone or a specific group to read. Once its out there, you can't take it back....EVER. -Charles

1:31pm • #40

Take a lesson from the Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes segment on Fox TV about how to have a respectful and spirited debate on even the most emotioanally charged issues.  They offer a great role model for how to disagree respectfully if some of us need a reminder.  I have not been on the network lately(working like crazy implementing a new business model), so I guess there has been some recent challenges on respectful discourse. 

Vance Walden
2:22pm • #41

Take a lesson from the Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes segment on Fox TV about how to have a respectful and spirited debate on even the most emotioanally charged issues.  They offer a great role model for how to disagree respectfully if some of us need a reminder.  I have not been on the network lately(working like crazy implementing a new business model), so I guess there has been some recent challenges on respectful discourse. 

Vance Walden
2:23pm • #42
Localism Sponsor

Post unto others as you would have them post unto you. :)

Maybe this could be the AR golden rule.

2:36pm • #43
3 Featured Posts

Rich, I am so glad to be a part of such an incredible forum for discussion and sharing.  Because this media is also a public venue, everything we say is available to the public.  It reminds me of one of the basic principles of leadership, "Praise people in public.  Criticize them in private."  If you something negative to say that you are not willing to share with someone privately - have the decency to "Get over yourself!"  We do not need your negative opinion smeared all over the rest of us.

2:36pm • #44
550,493 Points 22 Featured Posts Outside Blog Called Shot Master

We agree to disagree. I feel censorship creeping up the AR drain pipe. Got a semi-scolding from someone above just yesterday for using what I thought was an OK (derriere) word in the rain. I think I am pretty mild compared to some. It's OK to be half dressed in a gag cowboy outfit?  That's professional? But that's OK because I think I have a sense of humor.  I would like to see Sally's suggestion taken into consideration with a red flashing sign because they are that important to AR's success.

2:43pm • #45
Localism Sponsor

Rich, your post got me thinking about a post that I wrote yesterday.  I had no intention of slighting anyone, and the article that I referred to & linked in my post I had originally read in the Grand Rapids Press (presented as a humorous article, with sidebars.)   For future reference, does it cross the line because it is partly about China?  Should I remove it?

My Post: Got Milk? The unabridged version...

2:51pm • #46
122,437 Points Localism Sponsor

Even if one has a different or dissenting or negative opinion of something, it can be represented without resorting to hate speech, slurs or anything malicious.  Is losing my license or AR membership worth it?  Not at all.  Thanks for the reminder, Rich.

3:16pm • #47

Thanks for revisiting this again. We don't get why people feel the need to be this way in the first place.

5:52pm • #48

Great post Rich!  Unfortunately, common sense isn't common.

T. D. Furbush / Kensington-Hart Financial Group, LLC
7:24pm • #49

Great post Rich!  Unfortunately, common sense isn't common

T. D. Furbush / Kensington-Hart Financial Group, LLC
7:26pm • #50
AUG
15
2008
306,399 Points 17 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Called Shot Master

Rich - Good reminder.  I am a follower of the 3 C's - Courtesy, Kindness, Conscience, well make that 2 C's and a K.  I am very careful when I write a post, save it in draft, re read it, then post it, etc.  Treat others as you wish to be treated, don't say anything if you have nothing nice to say.  I am a nice person.

But I have gotten carried away in comments a couple of times and written something I shouldn't have.  The Irish side takes over.  Then I think - What was I thinking?  I wasn't thinking.

And that is the same thing.  I have had to chew on my own foot a couple of times.  Yuck.

4:04pm • #51
7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Rich...

Hate...just a strong word, that is such a distasteful emotion.  I feel sorry for anyone that has that strong and hateful emotion/thought about anyone or anything.  Such a waste.

Live my friend Virginia, I've said things I regret (I have to you), and wish I could take it back, but once said/written the deed is done.  I believe that people who say things on the Internet would say the same things in person, it's just part of who they are.  Having met so many of my fellow AR members they truly are in person what they are on the Internet.

I also would not want your job, and can see how you must feel sometimes, like in your "Love/Hate this job" post  I am reading the blood God Calling and working on myself to be a better person.  Picking a think, habit that is not good and eliminating it.  Saying things before thinking about it is a good one to work on.  Thanks for the reminders, Liz

10:57pm • #53
AUG
16
2008
565,411 Points 35 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router Attended Rain Camp

Rich...I'm tapping my fingers....waiting for your posts to the New Localism. Thanks for being you and all the hard work you do. Still eagerly awaiting clues to posting awesome post to the new platform! I want to see your work in your newly sponsored community!

8:47pm • #54
JUN
03
2010
188,613 Points 23 Featured Posts

OK - sounds like a fair system. It is your playing field. It is your ball. We just stop by to wax poetic. I have probably typed a word or two that struck a nerve here or there. 

I like to quote the late Waylon Jennings

"I can't say that I'm proud of all the things that I have done, but I can say that I've never intentionally hurt anyone."

I then I realize that my feet are nothing more than red clay.

I try

I fail

I will try again

9:19am • #55
JUN
04
2010
1,193,490 Points 89 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

IMHO  THIS IS THE POST that should have got refeatured yesterday based on Bob Stewarts post yesterday where Bob wrote:  

"We recently made a mistake by featuring a few posts that we believe violated our community guidelines, and by doing so we believe we harmed the reputation of this network of professionals. Our entire team apologizes for this and I take full responsibility as one of the posts was something I featured. "

Yep the R-E-S-P-E-C-T post was one of your greatest hits but at least the one post that is being publicly aknowledged as one of the "few posts that we believe violated our community guidelines"  this seems to be the Guideline that it was judged to have violated... well except those that are also trying to argue the post was a personal attack. 

a personal attack against all women...

but isn't this  guideline that the powerful persuaders have got AR to admit the now missing formerly featured post  should not have been featured (or even allowed to stay on AR)  are resting on...

"We encourage free speech and defend everyone's right to express unpopular points of view. But we don't permit hate speech which contains slurs or the malicious use of stereotypes intended to attack or demean a particular gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or nationality."

Isn't the criticism that the title and premise  of the post were "intended to attack or demean a particular gender,"  I am certainly not going to argue against that some members felt attacked or demeaned... by the post but the INTENTION part is a bit sketchy...   Personally I always believed the intention of the post was totally different.

9:22am • #56

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Rich Jacobson Your Kitsap County WA Real Estate Broker

Silverdale, WA

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Keller Williams West Sound Realty

Address: Silverdale, WA, 98383

Office Phone: (360) 499-6367

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Providing Knowledgeable Empowerment and Relentless Representation of Real Estate Clients throughtout the Western Puget Sound, including all of Kitsap County WA, and portions of Mason, Pierce, and Jefferson Counties.

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