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Forget Who Moved My Cheese... Who Stole My Sign?

Hi All,

Lately I have been spending a considerable amount of time shepherding buyer's from home to home in search of their perfect place. And lately, most of what we are visiting is either a Short Sale or a Bank Owned Home.

I have seen more than a few homes which have had things missing, faucets in the kitchen, light fixtures in the hall, a built-in bookcase, etc. Usually I have chalked this up to overzealous homeowners taking what they felt was "rightly" theirs.

But I have also begun to encounter something which is distressing, dismaying and downright depressing. The keys to the homes are turning up missing from key-boxes and we are not just talking about the folks who insist on using the old fashioned combo boxes, we're talking about electronic Supra key boxes. And its not just the keys that are going missing, I have also begun finding out signs are getting poached as well.

Now, I am willing to believe that perhaps the signs just "grew legs" on their own. It could happen. I am even able to envision a band of merry pranksters bounding happily from property to property gathering rosebuds and For Sale signs where they may. But am not able to stretch my mind far enough to allow that these selfsame free spirits are accessing these key-boxes and innocently and quite conveniently, neglecting to replace the key, yet remembering to lock every door, after they have finished viewing or showing the homes.

The thing that makes me most unhappy is realizing that the folks doing the key boosting, especially in the case of those removed from the electronic key boxes, have to be other agents. It is no coincidence that whenever I have encountered the missing key, missing sign, phenomenon it appears to coincide with a "hot" property that has received multiple offers.

Perhaps there are some agents out there who think that this is a way to "protect" the property so that their client's won't have as much competition. Perhaps they think that they are acting in their client's best interests or perhaps they are just great big hairy poo-poo heads with no concern for anyone but themselves and no comprehension of the code of ethics those of us who have chosen to become Realtors® follow.

Here's the thing... I know it is possible to put the key in your pocket and, what with juggling a cellphone, Supra Key and the myriad of other things that find their way into your fingers, to forget you popped that puppy into your 501's. But don't you think you might realize it when you went to lock the door, or reached into your pocket again or at the very least, did the laundry?

And, if you find a random key somewhere on your person, would it kill you to give a call to the agents whose listings you have shown to give them the heads up that you may have made a boo-boo and abscounded with the key. 'Cause, I've got to tell you I am getting pretty dang tired of being the one who seems to get stuck being the bearer of bad tidings.

I'm also thinking that this key snagging thing is not a great strategy to pursue. I'm hearing tell that some banks are starting to insist that their REO agents not put keys at the property at all, but instead want their properties to be shown by appointment only and for the keys to stay at the agent's office. I don't know about you, but I sure don't want this to become the norm again. I can count on three fingers of one hand, the number of agents in my neck of the woods who regularly and consistently answer their cellphones and/or return their calls. Nowadays with gas prices soaring, I don't want to have to drive all over creation gathering up keys in some perverse type of Short Sale scavenger hunt.

Sure, stealing the key might delay someone seeing the home. And taking the sign will lessen the number of folks who will drive by and get curious, but it won't stop someone who is determined to view the place. And if you really want to help ensure that your client is the victorious buyer of the property, don't engage in larcenous acts on their behalf, just put the key back where it goes, leave the sign swinging in the breeze and help your clients craft the best offer and everyone wins.

Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Posted by Tisza Major-Posner, DRE#01784679 on 08/14/2008 02:17 AM

Comments (90)

supra keys, realtor, real estate, stealing, claremont, california, short sales, reos, foreclosure, bank owned

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90 Comments on Forget Who Moved My Cheese... Who Stole My Sign?

AUG

2008

Very well put!!!! I just had this happen to me today! Have to admit to thinking about doing this before but thought that it would be cheating and fraud.

Tisza - Like your post, I haven't heard of the key stealing but I have heard of signs having legs and walking away. It sure is a dog eat dog world we live in isn't it.

And I hope it doesn't go back to appointments to show homes, what a head-ache.

Thanks for the reading!

We have to have an appointment even with the electronic key and without an appointment we can be fined. The box records which agent showed the house and when so the key should be trackable.

Aloha Tisza,

I don't know what kind of supra you are using but over here in Hawaii the supra keep a record of who and when the box was opened. Allowing you to follow up if something is missing. Does your supra not do that? In regards to walking sign, boy do I know that melody. Working in rural area my signs don't walk away they get wings. I finally got to the point where I take a ladder with me and hang the sign high. Has really cut down on losses but coconut trees get really tall in Hawaii and that might not work in your neighborhood

Hi All,

Mark - I am glad you liked it and I am very sorry to hear that you could identify so personally. I think we all have had those "Gee I wish I was the only one who knew about this" thoughts, but the difference between us and them is we would never act upon them.

Robert - Thank you. Hopefully you won't hear of it in your area. I totally agree about the appointment thing and you are welcome :-)

Take care all, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Hi Tisza,

Interesting: I've had "open house" signs grow legs - particularly in a competative area - but not FOR SALE signs which are pretty substantial. As to the keys....I had one instance like this with one cooperative unit in a VERY desirable complex. According to the seller - who finally had to let us in to see the unit - the keys had disappeared from the lock box no less than SIX TIMES! My guess was that the listing agent was trying to double end the deal. It was strange. In a complex where people are crawling all over each other to get in - that unit was on the market waaaaaay too long. It was worth the trouble trying to get back there three times - I ended up selling the unit.

Hi All,

Carol - Wow, that is pretty strict. The key-box does indeed keep track of who accessed it and when, but unfortunately in each of the cases I have experienced I was the lucky one to get to make the call to the listing agent to tell them the key was gone after I opened the box to find it empty. So, while the tracking system is absolutely helpful and should help narrow the suspects down, it is clearly not infallible.

Bill - Aloha! Yup, it sure does (see above) and that might slow them down, but it doesn't seem to stop them :-) I've seen a couple of super tall sign mounts around these parts and I wouldn't think the missing signs were quite as fishy if they didn't accompany missing keys so often. Thanks for stopping by.

Take care and have a wonderful day!

I just read a blog a couple days ago about signs getting stolen, Still don't understand why anyone would want to still a real estate sign.

Hi Ruthmarie,

Methinks you may be on to something there :-) I've had open house signs relocated and in one memorable instance, re-positioned to steer people to someone elses listing. But seeing the For Sale signs winging away is a new one for me as well. My hope is that by sharing what I'm seeing out here, we can start to head them off a the pass and hopefully keep isolated idiocy from becoming generalized stupidity.

Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Hi Andy,

I don't understand it either, but they are and they do. I guess these folks have never heard that what goes around, comes around.

Take care,

Tisza

What a market you're in! Mostly of what I've experienced is "walking" signs however, I haven't lost one yet. They show up in different yards, on the sides of homes, etc... I understand your frustration.

Hi Trunda,

I guess California is unique in lots of ways :-)

Thanks for stopping by. Take care, and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

I have seen signs used as skate board ramps by teenagers. As far as the disappearing keys, I would be concerned about having someone breaking into the home later.

Hi Randy,

I hear you there, I have also seen open house signs "repurposed" as someone elses garage sale sign as well. With regard to the keys, hopefully the locks will be changed by the new owner so that won't be a worry for them.

Thanks for stopping by. Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Perhaps we need LoJack for house keys. Or even better one that explodes in an agents pocket once they get 100 feet away from the house like a bank's dye pack. I could come up with lots of annoying ways to keep the keys from going far but the bottom line is if an agent is doing this on purpose they should be fined by their local boards. The reason I don't like combo boxes with the combo in the MLS is the lack of accountablity. I won't even talk about the number of times I've encountered prospective buyers in a home with NO AGENT in sight. How did they get in? The agent gave them the combo and told them to go check it out.

Tisza .... it seems like there is a lot of venting going on here! <g> And it's no wonder. There is so much "crap" going on these days, people are losing their sense of values. Good luck to you!

Keys do have wings. They fly right out of sight when needed most. Especially car keys. I find mine buried in the couch all the time.

What an interesting post... Thank you so much for sharing you recent experiences... I guess I am going to set all my Supra keys with CBS codes. I am sure that is not a sure why to stop a determined agent from calling me and getting the code, but I think that it might deter them enough for them to rethink the horrible thing that they are doing to us, their peer, our clients and the community as well.

Does anyone have any idea in how to deter agents from stealing keys in markets where agents absolutely refuse to use SUPRA, i.e. Miami?

Patty Da Silva, CDPE©
CERTIFIED DISTRESSED PROPERTY EXPERT©

http://www.pattydasilva.com

Interesting. I have not noticed keys disappearing here lately, but I have noticed signage on bank owned homes is lacking.

Tisza, the biggest grabber of signs in the Annapolis Maryland area is the local government. Every once in a while they go on a vendetta and grab up everything in the road "right of way." Lockbox "key snagging" will continue to go on because there really is no penalty if they're caught, except a bit of embarrassment.

Can you believe I have never found a home that didn't have the key in the box?

I enjoyed the post and all the comments!

Ann Allen Logo

HI TISZA!

What a terrible thing to do! Shame on those people who are doing that. It must really make things difficult when you are trying to do so many things in a short period of time. I hope that it gets better for you & that they come to their senses!

All the best,

I like the dye explosion idea Cindy mentioned! The signs and keys have been an issue in our area for a long time!

The signs started to disappear several years ago when our market was going south. Jealous competition couldn't resist taking a sign down OR stealing open house a frames. How fun!

Keys started disappearing at the beginning of this year as REO prices started going downward. REO agents have started to get smart to that with an extra keybox. Haven't heard of them keeping them at their office yet though. WHAT A NIGHTMARE that would be for everyone!

Tizsa,

I know what you mean -- I just had an experience where a very aggressively priced condo came on the market, so there were many many showings for a few days; coincidentally, the keys to another unit in the same building went missing, so that when I (and many others) brought my buyers to see what was available in the building for comparison as well, we couldn't show the one unit, even though it was a supra electronic lockbox and we did have an appointment scheduled. Whether the listing agent checked to see who was last in the lockbox or not, none of the buyers looking that day had a chance to see the unit!

Best regards,

Gretchen

Hi Tisza, Wow. That's amazing. Guility of not reading all of the comments, but did you do a search on the supra box to find out who was in without permission? You can do it online..

Wow. I feel so naive and protected in my active retirement communities. I just don't have to deal with this stuff... much. I did have the occassion to show a couple short sale properties just outside "the walls" last weekend though. Boy was that an eye opener. Stripped lighting and no kitchen cabinets. All the things I've read about but hadn't seen firsthand until then.

We have one office where no one has the supra locks and what a nightmare having to collect and return their keys. It is so much easier and as mentioned think of the gas we could save.

Tisza. Nice to see you visiting this morning.

The electronic key box records the last person to enter the property via the keybox. The last agent who entered that property with the missing key needs to be . . . . . . . .

The reason nothing happens is because no one does anything about anything. We just go on with out lives and the offending agent gets away with it.

A smart listing agent would determine the last person who entered the property via the keybox and if an offer came from them file a complaint against that agent. They may have kept the sellers from a better offer by inteferring with access to the property.

In the past ten days or so, on my listings in San Bernardino, I have had four sets of keys disappear from three listings. I also had my combination lockbox removed from the front door of one listing and the box left on the kitchen counter.

I have started putting into the agent confidential remarks that if keys go missing, no offers will be presented until 72 hours after the keys have been replaced. I got a call from an agent about that who was very appreciative that I'd take a stand in that way. I had no idea the problem was so widespread until after talking to other agents in the County about it. What is going on out there???

All of the properties with missing keys (and the removed box!) generated multiple offers after keys were made available. But what a pain, having to replace keys, let alone advise a client that keys went missing...

I'm voting that the key swipers are big, hairy poo-poo heads. And around here, REO agents can't answer the phone, return calls or answer email... showing a property, I don't think so.

I agree with you.... I do alot of short sales for listings and I also just plain list losts of very well priced properties. One of mine has lost 3 signs and a post each time ( talk about costs for me!) Another one recently had an agent try to show and then the key was gone and when I went back it was there.

Now on 2 occassions in 5 years I was the one who took the key ( by mistake) and I called the agents from the houses I showed that day and I also redrove the whole route and went to all the listings til I found out which key it was and replaced it. ( may have had a bit of an excuse since I had the cell phone, my keys, the supra key and I had a baby and 2 other kids of my own with me and the client has 2 kids with her.....and the property in question had 4 keys, I missed getting one of them back in......but still I did the right thing when I found out the mistake....sorry you are having this issue and PLEASE tell me we aren't going to have to go back to the olden days with picking up keys!!!

Unbelievable!!!It happened to me, someone realized that probably has to move out the house!!!

Good post , congrats on your **** Star****

#1 - That title brought a smile to my lips. It's a serious subject, but the catchy title got this post read in the first place!!!

#2 - C'mon all you agents out there, this is no way to conduct business. One the ways you can stop the accidential misplacement of keys is to use the lock-boxes that have the long dog-tag style chains on them, keeping them attached to the lock box, but still long enough to open the door.

Wow, talk about being a pain! I think for the most part that happens to all of us. It is a pain, but until the end of time we are going to be dealing with crap like that. It comes with the territory I guess.

I've had the same thing happen a few times.

1. Our sign was taken and thrown into a neighbors front yard. It was just luck that I actually spotted it wedged next to a fence.

2. 1 of our bank owned properties had the keys completely stolen.

3. 2 of our properties had the lock boxes (combo) stolen, but the thief did leave the keys on the front door mat (so kind)! Thankfully it was on the the same day that we were doing our inspections.

4. We have one agent that calls for lock box codes and then shows the house and either leaves all the doors open or leaves the combo set at the code so that anyone can walk up and open the box. Needless to say he now will be getting an escort for his showings. Sad!

5. Even with the supra and being able to identify the last user, the agent always denies it. I feel better after I "bring it tho their attention" that the door was wide open, or the key was missing, but they always say that it wasn't them. Hopefully by me mentioning it to them they are more careful next time.

I really think that at least for us it's because these are bank owned and somehow others feel that since it's a banks property they don't take the same care as they would with an owner occ.

MMMM! I came out of a market where lockboxes were not in wide use. It was a real hassle to collect keys for showings from all the different offices and return them afterwards. I would highly recommend you speak to someone at the board and try to get a memo in the newsletter about the potential pitfalls if this keeps occuring.

Tizsa, I've been in A LOT of foreclosures in my area and have only seen this once. Hopefully, it does not become a trend around here. What a pathetic way to conduct business.

BTW- I see that it took you all of 25 hours to fall off the wagon on your pledge to not post after midnight :)

I see a couple of things here-- it was rumored for sometime, that the metal signs were going the way of all metal lately ---the scrappers. However, based on rampany spray paint damage I have seen recently, I am more apt to believe that the neighbors are BLAMING you, the agent, for the prices falling in their neighborhood. Massive destruction of signs = no sales for you, no lowering of their home's valu.

Also, how had is it to take the door handle off? If you are putting your lockbox on a door handle that is held on with a few screws--I got a Makita that will make fast work of that!

Oh well! Just a few thoughts.

Hi All,

Wow, 28 comments since I was last here... Boy, that will teach me to do something stupid like decide to get some sleep :-)

Cindy - LoJack for keys... That's not a bad idea... The dye bags are a winner too... I like it... I like it :-) Thanks for stopping by.

Sharon - Yup, there sure is. Thank goodness for AR or it would be even uglier out there if we didn't have a place to blow off steam.

Laura - I hear you there, mine seem to prefer to be under the couch though, not in it :-)

Patty - Boy, they won't use Supras? The old guard really won't give up without a fight will they. Not sure how to handle that, but unless Florida is different than here where home owners insurance is concerned, a home that is up for sale and not protected by a trackable keysafe (like Supra) might not be protected if the key is used to burglarize it so perhaps you need to start by educating the sellers to DEMAND a more accountable key storage system. Just a thought. P.S. Your comment was accidentally double posted so I deleted the duplicate, I hope you don't mind :-)

Christina - Hopefully you won't find that happening in your area anytime soon.

Richard - I tend to agree with you but maybe by bringing this dirty little secret to the fore front and by calling the broker's of all of the suspected offices when it occurs, we might be able to stem the tide.

Ann - And I hope you never will :-) Thanks for stopping by, cute logo as well.

Yvette - Fortunately, I have only been the one to discover the theft and not the victim... yet, but if this trend continues then it would only be a matter of time.

Renee - I have never understood the mindset that accompanies the actions. Personally, I believe that I don't need to do anything dirty or underhanded to get or "protect" business. I tend to think that if you treat people right, offer exemplary service and play nicely with others you will get more business than you can handle. I don't want to see the keys at the office thing either - especially when I am working with a client who wants to look at homes that span a 40 mile radius.

Gretchen - I know what you mean, and boy do I wish I didn't :-)

Stephanie - I did know you could search online and now with the new "smart" keys our board has switched to you get notified as soon as someone shows the home. Unfortunately, I always seem to be the person who gets there after the key has been taken and I always seem to be the one who gets the happy task of notifying the listing agent that their key is gone, their sign is missing, etc.

Kathy - Yes, it does seem that you are protected from some of the ugly out there. Honestly, what are they going to do with old, used kitchen cabinets anyway?

Carol - That would be a pain. We have a couple here that make you call for a combo and then nobody ever answers, returns the calls or, if you do happen to get a person has the combo for the home. How do these folks stay in business?

Lenn - I agree except... I am usually the last person to try to access the box but I swear I am not the key poacher. The plot thickens... Good idea though ;-)

Theresa - I wonder if some of the same poo-poo heads are at work in your area and mine. Claremont, Rancho Cucamonga, Upland and Riverside are not that far from San Bernardino. It would be interesting to find out.

Lane - Wow, I had no idea we were working in the same market area, some of the REO agents here seem to have the selfsame challenges. I know of one company that has NEVER answered the phone, or returned a call, even after I have left 5 messages. Amazing!

Anna - Sorry about the signs and the posts. My hubby suggested that we start installing Realtor cams and that might not be a bad idea. Good for you for going the extra mile though to get a key back where it belongs.

Maria - I am sorry and Thank you

Ralph - Glad you liked it and GREAT IDEA! It really would make it much harder to say "Whoops I forgot" if that puppy is chained to the box.

Tony - Yes, unfortunately it does but it shouldn't have to.

Sale Pros - I've run into the combo box still set and ready to open, I've even happened upon a couple that were wide open for God and everybody to see. Maybe it has something to do with the status of the home, but I think it has a whole lot more to do with the type of person doing the poaching.

Vickie - Excellent suggestion and one I think I shall act upon.

Erik - Hopefully, it will remain the exception and not the rule. Oh, and for the record, I promised not to write and send EMAILS after midnight, I said nothing about blog posting :-)

Thank you all for your generous comments, sharing your frustrations and offering some very valuable suggestions for how to combat this scourge.

Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

I recently was sent a quote by Abraham Lincoln that pretty much says it all.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character give him power"

Just because you can do something without someone else knowing, doesn't make it right. If you will steal a sign, a package that another agent left at an expired listing, steal the keys to the property out of the lock box, then you have poor character and it says more about you than you know.

Character is what you do in the dark, that no one else can see.

Hi Amy,

Yes, the metal signs could be getting snagged by scrappers but it sure is awfully coincidental that the homes where the signs vanish also seem to lose their keys AND they are getting multiple offers... hmm... Great Idea about how to install those boxes though. Thanks for stopping by.

Tisza

Really enjoyed your post! Nice to know we are not the only ones whose signs magically disappear. We are with Keller Williams in Charlotte, NC, and we have heard that there is a band named Keller Williams and when they are in town, KW signs, like yours "grow legs." I'm sorry, but just because our company shares a name with this band, I'm sure they don't see it as a sign of affection when the sign bandits show up to their show with our signs????????????????

No offense to Keller Williams or those Keller Williams fans! I've heard that they play great music.

Hi John & Gaye,

Yes, there is indeed a Keller Williams band - they even have a slot in the music section at Borders. It is a funny image to imagine though, looking out over a sea of your fans and having all these random Realtor faces staring back at you from their pilfered KW For Sale signs. Not funny truly but still gives me a bit of a chuckle ;-) Thanks for stopping by!

Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Tisza You make the hole story sound funny, but its not-its STEELING! and thouse realtors are thieves! and should not be in the business.

Hi Stealing Signs,

Well Said!

Thanks for stopping by, take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Fortunately we do not have those issues in SA but I liked your post very much!

Wow, That's really sad. I just had that happen to me too. The feeling that goes along with being the victim is not good. We had a multiple offer situation and after accepting one of them, the other agent was very irrate. Well, I went out to put a "sold" rider sign on the existing sign a couple of days later, and the sign was gone. I'm standing there holding a rider "sold" sign in my hand with nothing to attach it to. I could not believe it. And what's worst, is that the owners thought that I was the one that took it. The house is still pending, and I would love to have that advertising that the sold sign brings, but I am afriad that if I put another sign out there, it would disappear into thin air as well.

Liz

Had that happen to me quite a few times. South Side is a "hot" area and when a competitvely priced foreclosure comes up it usually has multiple offers within the first few hours. I even had it happen on my own listing and I was livid at the agent who did it. It ended up doing him harm because we had to wait another day to get the key back and by that time we had 7-8 additional agents who called to view the property. I felt that it was not doing my seller justice to accept his offer just b/c he took the key. We waited an additional 3 days and did not make a decision on any of the offers until then. Ended up selling the house for $10,000 over asking price!! This guy's seller eventually bought the property, but if it was up to me, he wouldn't have got it.....

Also had a guy I was working with take the sign and put it in his car b/c he wanted to make an offer. Needless to say, I no longer work with that investor.

Tisza wrote:

"Patty - Boy, they won't use Supras? The old guard really won't give up without a fight will they. Not sure how to handle that, but unless Florida is different than here where home owners insurance is concerned, a home that is up for sale and not protected by a trackable keysafe (like Supra) might not be protected if the key is used to burglarize it so perhaps you need to start by educating the sellers to DEMAND a more accountable key storage system. Just a thought."

It is awful, and it only happens in Miami Dade county. The Realtors REFUSE to use Supra, I am not sure if it is because the key has an annual fee, because they do not understand the technology and are afraid of it, or it is just the old mentality and old habits do die hard. But if I put a supra on a listing I am guaranteed to have zero showings because the Realtors will not have the key pad to open the Supra. The Sellers are not the issue, as they would always choose Surpa, why wouldn't they, but the choice is never presented to them.

I work the 3 county area (Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) and Broward (better known for its city name of Fort Lauderdale) and Palm Beach are not like that, but if I have a listing in Broward and the Selling Realtor is from Miami I have to meet him/her at the property for that Realtor to show the listing!

You mentioned insurance coverage issues with combo lock boxes, which is a great point but on top of that, they are doing a HUGE disservice to their clients and to themselves!

The Miami Dade county Board of Realtors sell Supra but they do not put any pressure for the Realtors to use it. I think that they should find a way to phase out the combo boxes and make it the use of Supras mandatory for the safety of everyone involved.

Your thoughts?

Patty Da Silva, CDPE©

CERTIFIED DISTRESSED PROPERTY EXPERT©

http://www.pattydasilva.com

I've lost a couple of open house signs, and I know it wasn't from putting them in front of someone's house along the route, because I get permission from neighbors to put signs out. Must be just someone who thought they were funny or clever. Bad joke. Those signs are expensive!

As for keys, my worst experience and most disappointing was when I had buyers who called me specifically to show them a property that had been on the market for a long time, but was a great house. I took them out to see it but the key was not in the lockbox, so I called the listing agent and (of course) had to leave a message. I told her that the key was missing and she called me several days later to tell me she'd be out there to replace it that morning.

Wrong! I checked several times a day, still no key. I called again and again and told her my clients really wanted the property but needed to see inside before making an offer. The key was finally replaced almost 3 weeks after my initial call and meanwhile my clients had gone to an open house, took that one as a second choice and bought it from that listing agent. So both the original listing agent and I missed out on a sale.

6 months later, the house still hadn't sold, and now they have rented it out. Too bad, they could have had a full price offer if the agent had just followed through!

some great thoughts... it pisses me off to have this happen. typically I go to my lock boxes and get a copy of keys made for my listings. then if some a-hole takes the key I run out an put another one in. Although for my farther out listings that is a paigne.

Doing this kind of thing never even occurs to me. I thought agents stopped doing this in the 80's. It was stupid then & it's still stupid. Are you sure someone isn't possibly jealous of your success so they have it in for you? It's entirely possible OR your just paranoid!

IN THIS TYPE OF INCIDENCE, WOULD IT BE WORTH YOUR TIME TO FILE COMPLAINTS WITH THE BOARD AND REQUEST A REPLY. EACH BROKER THAT YOU FIND THIS SCENARIO WITH SHOULD BE REPORTED AND FOLLOWED UP ON FOR A REPLY FROM YOUR BOARD THAT THEY OFFICE HAS BEEN CONTACTED.

I WOULD BE DELI GENT ABOUT REPORTING THIS UNTIL IT IS CLEANED UP. THIS OCCURRED IN ANAHEIM HILLS SEVERAL TIMES AND WHAT WE FOUND OUT AFTER DOING OUR OWN INVESTIGATING IT WAS THE SAME COUPLE OF BROKERS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. THEY WERE REPORTED AND ARE NO LONGER A PROBLEM.

I BELIEVE IN BEING PRO ACTIVE EVEN THOUGH WE ARE UP TO OUR EYE BALLS WITH STUFF AND HARDLY ANY TIME LEFT. I HAVE ALSO QUESTIONED THE BROKERS THAT WHAT TO HOLD THE KEY. WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO SHOW THE HOME? IF THE SELLER OR BANK REALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WERE DOING I THINK THINK THEY WOULD BE INSTRUCTED TO DO OTHERWISE.

WE ALL NEED TO BE REPORTING THIS THINGS SO WE CAN GET BACK TO A PROFESSIONAL PROFESSION. LET'S GET RID OF THE ARMATURES. WWW.LocatingYourHome.com / www.OCHomeSearch.ListingBook.com http://RealtorAgentJames.BlogSpot.com/

I've only encountered a missing key at one property, and it was in fact a 'hot' one. The listing agent knew who had the key, but didn't seem too concerned about getting another one in there. I even called the agent who had the key, and he said he'd get it back in a week or so.

But today - I called an agent after showing a house that had no kitchen cabinets, appliances, nothing. The agent said, "Yah, someone walked away with the kitchen."

Keys are going missing in our area too. I think to slow down other offers on the properties by other agents.

I just have to say something about the Supra vs combo lock box debate. When it comes to security, it always amazes me to find out that the listing agent has used their own initials or the property address for the combo!

That is bold, I had a sign taken the other day but by people that lived on the street ( go figure). The agents that hide the sign and steal the keys are very cruel. Its nothing like driving across town to show a property and realizing you cant get in the door.

Oh Brother! I had this feeling that as soon as I said I had not experienced this, that it would happen to me. Well, not really to me, but I just returned from an agent open house, and they have had their colonial post and sign disappear. In this case, it is not because it's a hot property with competing offers.

Craziness!

Ann Allen Logo

Reminds me of the Bill Cosby bit about "go-carts"...

he tells the story of when he was a kid..."going out at night and stealing baby-coach[stroller] wheels" to make their go-carts...

...the ending was beautiful...there were NINE HUNDRED COP CARS WAITING (to take them off to jail)

but, I digress...

Great post that made me laugh...again! You must be quite a card in person!

Hi All,

Boy, I seem to have hit quite the hot button topic here haven't I? Forgive me, someone made a great suggestion for a way to stem the tide and beat these Poo-Poo Heads at their own game. Put it in the MLS that if the sign or key go "missing" all offers will be held (with the seller's permission of course) for 3 days before submission. Might slow 'um down.

Mary - I agree with you 100%

Kristin - Glad to hear that on both counts!

Liz - Glad to hear of your pending success and sorry to hear of the loss of your sign. I still remember my mother telling me "Cheaters Never Prosper" and I sure hope that is true! Heck, you could put up a well made cardboard sign with the sold rider attached that said "My listings are so hot they even took the sign too!"

Adam - I would have been firmly in your camp on that one.

Patty - I agree that the key should be considered a minimum standard of practice. Here in my area, Claremont, California which is governed by the Citrus Valley Association of Realtors and covered by IMRMLS the key is definately NOT optional. I have to say that I immediately look down on an agent who won't invest the $100 in buying the electronic box to protect their clients. What does it say about you as a professional if you are willing to sell your seller's down the river for a difference of $50?

Susan - Sorry about the loss of the signs, you're darn right those suckers are pricey! And its not like they are any good to anyone else with your name and number plastered all over them. Bummer about the loss of the sale too, but that pretty much sums up how a whole lot of folks in this industry get away with doing business.

Andrew - I feel the same way and I actually always have a spare key hidden somewhere in a combo box for my use or a vendors only just in case.

Lyn - If it were happening only to my listings I would think there was something personal attached, but I am encountering it when I go to show other folks listings to my buyer's... hmm, now that you mention it perhaps it is something only being directed at me... No, I'm not paranoid, just because I think they are out to get me :-)

James - I agree and I would were they my listings. At this point, all I can do is bring the situation out into the open and hope that it withers and dies in the cruel light of day.

Joetta - Amazing... and what exactly do they think they are going to do with the cabinets, etc. in their new home? How many Formica counters does any house truly need?

Russ - I am sure that is at the root of the problem.

Joetta - Yup, or the ones that set ALL their combo boxes to the same code so if you see one...

Dee Dee - I usually keep a duplicate key for all my listings with me and I have a hidden combo box with one in it as well just in case I forget my supra. I agree that it is a very cruel act indeed, who better than another agent should truly be able to appreciate how much these things are to replace and how long it can take to get them done. Poopy.

Thank you all for your interest and comments. I am sorry to see that this is happening to so many out there.

Take care all, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Hi All,

Ann - I think the only comfort the victim of sign and post theft can take is that it will cost the thief gas to drive their Hummer over their and beau coup bucks to get the thing detailed to get the mud out of it from the bottom of the post. :-)

Shannon - Thanks for reminding me of the Bill Cosby bit, I haven't thought about that one for years! And yes, according to my hubby and pretty much everyone else around me I am - I want to be a Queen but settled for a Joker :-D

Take care all, and have a super day!

Tisza

Tisza,

Here in San Diego County we have many, many bank owned properties and thus most have combo lockboxes on them. And, YES, keys do get stolen around here. I had a listing where someone took the entire front part of the combo lockbox and the keys (good thing they were eventually returned after a few days), then on another listing they really did "walk"! What a hassle to have to go and replace them. Yard signs and even Open House signs get stolen around these parts. They'll even get tagged (with grafitti) or look as if someone took at bat to them. And to keep track of who's opening the combo lockboxes, I don't include the combo code in mls. I require agents to call for them. So, if anyone out there in San Diego County is reading this and you are showing one of my listings...I know it's a hassle to have to call before showing, but it's a huge hassle if the keys "walk".

Tisza, you are keeping me honest. I previewed a place today that was a total wow house. I won't be able to show it until tomorrow morning. I was soooo tempted to keep the keys, although that is pretty unthinkable around here - and I'd already left an electronic trail! And it would be just tacky and rude. Cute post!

This knocks me out. I have NEVER heard of such a thing. Sure kids mess with the signs but to take keys would be unheard of around here. That is theft pure and simple. I can't be sure but I think you could loose your license for that. I am positive you will loose your MLS privileges because I am on our board. Keep those guys out there.

Hi All,

Celia & Tonya- It truly is happening everywhere as the respondents to this post demonstrate. I am currently sitting at my office prepping to go preview properties for a client but can't do a dad gum thing yet because every single one of them is a combo call first and the agents don't answer. Yeah, that helps make me more efficient... Of course than there is my other current favorite occurrence where combos are concerned, a certain lender is having all their REO's combos set the same. So, if you know who the lender is, you know what the combo is, doesn't that just give you warm fuzzies.

Patricia - I am glad to see that your better nature overruled. I tend to operate under the "If it is meant to be than it will work out, if not then something better is coming along" philosophy. Works for me :-) Glad you enjoyed it!

-Blank- It would be nice if there were some stringent repercussions for folks that choose to engage in this deceitful behavior. Glad to hear that you will try to keep them honest :-)

Take care all, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Tisza, an agent shared the same thing about signs missing in our office yesterday, he said it was the metal ones not the wooden ones. Your board can access who showed the house last on the electronic ones, I would have them check, not good. Then go backwards and call the agents.

One time last summer an agent put the key to one of my listings in her pocket, forgot about it, left the door open and the house was vacant. I stopped by to check on something and saw the home open and the front of the keypad on the railing. But, it freaked me out.

Great blog. How you keep your cool and find humor in all this is great. It is a strange world and takes all kinds. Keep your chin up and follow your code of ethics.

Best wishes.

Brian

I have seen this before, oops I forgot to put the key back.

Thanks for shining the light on this ever-growing problem. While I am basically a trusting soul who expects (with a grain of salt, of course) that people will inherently do the "right thing", there are FAR too many of these "lost" keys & signs happening.

If it comes down to the seller's requiring their agents to forego placing keys at the property, it would be most unfortunate. However, on the positive side, perhaps it would then lead to the agents who are barely working at the RE job or handling their business unethically to either begin taking their job seriously, or move on to employment doing something else. Either would be fine by me!

Please, fellow agents - hold yourselves to a much higher standard so that the general public is not remotely justified in their claims that Realtors make too darned much money (hello???). I personally earn every dollar I make....and then some.

Let's clean up our act!!!

OK that is TOTALLY depressing and grim!!

I once had an "open house" sign stolen, but that's it. I've had agents accidentally walk off with the key and bottom part of the Supra box, but not the kind of rampant stuff you're been running into. Since I've had that kind of thing happen on rare occassion, often I do put up two lockboxes (combo AND Supra) "just in case" (and carry another key with me, also "just in case").

Wishing you an easier time of it from here on, Tisza!!!

Tisza,

"Protecting" the property by taking the key and the sign, too, is a good one. Some people do go to great lengths to get something done and to hell with the rules and codes of ethics. That's too bad.

AUG

2008

Amen Sister Friend!! I've seen the missing keys happen...And, even just today I got to the next house on my showing tour and realized I still had the key and supra lock box in my pocket...but I immediately drove back to the last house and replaced it :-)

Hey, Tisza.

I was laughing and crying at the same time reading your post. I not only find missing keys when I'm showing someone a property, but other agents sometimes call me wondering why I don't have keys in my lockbox. I'm about ready to buy stock in my local keymaker.

The only time I have signs walk away is when I'm having open houses near a college or university that is in session. It's amazing that when they are not in session, signs don't disappear. Hmmmmm.

Hi All,

Missy - I often wonder what makes people do the things that they do.

Brian - Thanks. I am glad you enjoyed it.

Michael - Oops can happen to anyone, but this seems to be less of an oops and more of an evil laugh.

Edith - Here, here.

Mary - I have a tendency to put the spare key in the secret box and keep one with me as well... nothing like a little healthy paranoia I always say :-)

Jean - Good suggestion, it might be tough to implement but it also might be worth trying.

Esko - Ethics?! Now we're supposed to have ethics?! Nobody mentioned ethics to me :-)

Chris - Yes, they happen sometimes and if the agent is honest like you were then it wouldn't be a problem and this blog would never have needed to be written.

Jim - Glad you enjoyed this. Interesting about the university connection, you wouldn't be suggesting that our best and brightest, those future pillars of our community would have anything to do with your signs taking wings would you?

Take care all, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Haven't seen signs go missing here (yet) but have seen keys take legs and not be in the boxes. Can not imagine showing listings where the keys are all on offices like in the 'olden days' before lock boxes. With Phoenix spread out forever and gas so high, that would become a real challenge for everyone.

Well, there may be agents who keep keys deliberately, but in my market they just "forget" to put them back. One of the reasons why most of us don't use lockboxes in our area is so that we can keep track of who had the key last. We aren't sophisticated enough to have surpakeys here. ~Evelyn

We have not had to many keys go missing, but we certainly have had quite a few signs go missing. I think there are some agent looking to stifle the competition and take signs, but I also realize that some times the town or city has been taking them as well. I lost four signs before I got a call from the local town, telling me my sign was too far into the right of way...(by the curb). and so they were taking my signs on this one home. Other have disappeared where they should not, when other company signs...no names...have stayed put. Coincidence??? I think not!! But how do you prove it.

Good Post!!

we are seeing that all over the place...

This is happening to me, too. With multiple offers coming in on a regular sale, the agent who had presented one of the offers walked off with the key, as determined by the electronic lockbox. When confronted with the question of what happened to the key, she just said she didn't know if she had it or not. The evening of the day she took the key, another agent wanted to do a final showing to his client before putting in an offer that he said would be$25,000 more than the offer presented by the theif. He and his clients couldn't get into the house, so the agent decided to take his client to another property for which they put in an offer. That missing key may have cost my client $25K!The thief never returned the key, so we had to go through the time, cost and annoyance of getting a new key made. The seller was out of area, so this was not an easy task.

On that same property, a couple weeks earlierier, the sign was missing. Someone called about wanting to see the house three blocks down the street--a house that wasn't even listed. We determined that our missing sign had been installed in front of a house where the people were not even thinking about selling. These are really squirrely, desperate times.

Common around here as well, Tisza. I have had my Open House signs disappear, only to find them reused as Yard Sale signs and recently have been the bearer of bad news to Listing Agents re: keys missing AND DOORS LEFT UNLOCKED.

I always call the agent to advise if there is something wrong (broken windows / doors) but with the number of homes that are foreclosures what appears to be "recent" may not be. For example: The listing states refr / range/ micro / dishwasher yet when we view - the kitchen is totally gutted. The agent stated, "I know, the owner took everything a month ago." I spoke to an another agent about a missing Air Conditioner... she said "would you have shown the property is I said it was missing?" I replied, this is beyond "puffing" and she should correct it.

Perhaps they are too busy, perhaps they are negligent, perhaps they are deceptive... Either way, it is frustrating to schedule showings to find something other than what you expected. It affects the reputation of our industry as our clients experience the disappointment. Prevention - preview as much as possible, and for those clients that want to see everything - a little verbal notice that some of the homes are in rough shape or not as they appear online.

I passded a local sign-hanger at the off ramp this morning. The cougated vinyl sign he was holding toward traffic said "starvin' like Marvin--anything helps" written on brown paper.

As I passed him I turned to see what the other side said. It said "Jane Doe, agent, Such&So Realty."

So at least that sign went to a philanthropical cause.

My Open House signs sprout legs all the time, especially in certain towns in my area where it's actually the police who gather them up and dump them behind the station for a few days before they toss them.

The missing key and "for sale" sign thing is a new one on me, however. I will keep an eye out. Just recently we had someone show one of our listings and leave the back door wide open when she left. Makes you wonder what people are thinking.

People steal keys from my lock boxes all of the time. They don't realize that it's easy to figure out based on:

Showing Log
Immediately after the keys disappear, the present an offer for their clients

Proving it is another thing.

Here's a good one for you: a Realtor in my area (Johnson City, TN) said the key was missing out of the lockbox and she would have to wait several days to hear from the bank (foreclosure) about rekeying the house so no showings right now. In the same breath she mentioned that there were three offers on the table for the house. Now how did those buyers even get to see the house if the key was missing??? The next day (Friday) the Realtor said the locksmith was over there and that he would be putting new keys IN THE MAIL to her and she would get them next Monday or Tuesday. (Both she and the locksmith are in the same city.) So by the time she gets a key and puts it in the lockbox, the house may already have a contract on it. Of course I can't be sure at the moment but I'll bet she's working both sides on one of the offers. How unscrupulous it that?!? There's even a back story to this where this Realtor put in the MLS that there was a verbal offer and they were just waiting for documents to be signed. She kept it Active in MLS BUT she took the lockbox off and the sign down during this month-long wait. And then the key disappeared (see above) and then there were three offers... I hope I never have to actually work with her but at least I'll be on my guard.

AUG

2008

It is amazing what some culprits will do to lessen the activity of a particular property they may have a bid on. As for missing keys, our MLS has began warning about showing property simultaneously with other agents. If you are the agent that took the key out of the lockbox, you need to be the agent that returns it. The lockbox will tell who had access.

As for those signs which seem to be jogging off into nowhere, that's a little more difficult to determine. How did those signs evolve their legs and then galavant off into the sunset. There could be many agendas out there - (1) A buyer/bidder trying to squelch the competition. (2) Neighbors, who are concerned a vacant property will invite vandalism, etc. It's probably not likely that another agent would steal a sign - but not impossible.

Only a webcam could possibly provide insight!

Good luck!

Hi All,

I had no idea that this was so widespread. Perhaps by bringing this issue to the forefront we can all start to take steps in our own business communities to change the future.

Bob and Carolin - Glad to hear things haven't hit there... yet, and hopefully they won't. I agree, the idea of having to drive to every agent's office or wait for them to show up a the listing to show a property holds no allure for me either.

Evelyn - There truly is a lot to be said for knowing "who had it last".

Brian - Thank you. Yes, sometimes the city is indeed at fault. Here in Claremont the sign placement regulations are very stringent and for those who choose to be unaware (I went to the city as soon as I started my business to find out what the rules are so I wouldn't run afoul of them) code enforcement can have a field day.

Marvette - I am sorry to hear that.

April - I find it truly amazing that right now in what is one of the best buyer's markets we've had in recent memory with more inventory available to choose from than you can shake a stick at, anyone would decide to resort to such dishonest tactics. Shameful.

Kathleen - I agree. I also let the listing agent know when I find anything irregular at a showing. Thus, my tendency to be the first one to report something damaged, missing or otherwise out of order.

Linda - Yes, it is good to know that now that sign is going to good use instead of being wasted by being allowed to just "hang there". :-)

Nancy - Makes you wonder if these folks all live indoors themselves when they don't have a clear understanding of how a door operates.

Jesse - You've got that right.

Kelsey - You sure will be on your guard. Sometimes I wish we weren't bound by that "don't say anything negative about another agent" rule. When things like this occur should be allowed to be brought out into the open.

Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day!

Tisza

Tisza,

I glanced at some remarks. Non post signs are sometimes cut apart and apparently sold for scrap. Talk about a dog eat dog world.

Glad to see you're posting again.

AUG

2008

For agents that take keys on purpose, lockboxes and signs, all I can say is "What goes around, comes around". Hopefully you'll get yours!

DEC

2008

Wow, stealing keys? I once had a sign and post completely stolen from one of my listings. It was a listing in a city where I normally don't do business. I'm pretty sure a local agent was trying to send me a signal. I am a firm believer of what comes around goes around.

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