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Who's Entitled to the "Lead" Online-- the 80 or the 20?

By
Services for Real Estate Pros

DiamondsI ponder things.  I'm a ponderer.  I mull this way and consider that way and-- when I'm in the mood-- I ponder from many angles.  And recently I started pondering about this whole online lead question.  After considerable pondering, I became convinced of two things:  1) online leads are clearly diamonds in the rough and 2) a lot of people have a strange sense of entitlement when it comes to who should get to extract these diamonds.  

For years I've watched [and occasionally participated in] the debate about online leads and the many lead generation companies that provide them to REALTORS®.  Clearly there are folks who have used lead generators and have benefitted from them-- just as there are those that have used them and didn't.  Judging anecdotally from the commentary, more people have tried them and failed than have tried and succeeded-- a challenge certainly for the lead generators because success and failure both breed word-of-mouth marketing.  Is the failure-to-success ratio because of some inherent deficiency in the lead quality delivered or is it because so many users fall onto the wrong side of the typical sales production 80-20 curve?

The typical argument I've seen against the existence of lead generators is that they step 'in between' the lead and the REALTOR® that should be receiving the lead naturally.  The argument is that the lead generators usurp the natural order, act as an interloper and cart away value that should be going to "A" and rather, they sell it to "B" without adding value.  And there's a strong sentiment against them existing-- for just that reason.  But are they truly adding 'no value' and who, rightfully should be entitled to an online lead?  I guess it depends on whether you're 'in the 80' or 'in the 20' in several ways.

PanningIf you're in the 20 that jumped up and established an online presence early, learned the game thoroughly, and mastered how to drive lead volumes, you likely think that online opportunities searching your town should be yours.  You earned them with your online efforts.  But if you're in the 80, you disagree.  You prefer to receive 'value' by having someone else establish a presence, learn the game, and master the traffic rules for you.  Some of you in the 20 are also 'in the 20' with your sales skills-- but, of course, some of you aren't.  Getting the leads and closing the leads isn't always synonymous.  Likewise, a healthy volume of folks willing to pay a lead generator to deliver that 'value' they won't or can't deliver to themselves will find themselves falling similarly into the 80 with respect to their sales skills. 

Yellow DiamondWhen 20's get leads-- either from their own efforts or from a lead generator, they receive tremendous value.  When 80's get them, there's little 'value' received because 80's aren't especially good at extracting it.  Whether you're great at managing your own online lead generation or paying someone to do it for you, it's still a job for you to extract the latent 'value' from the lead.  And 20's do that better than 80's because they're simply better at mining for online diamonds than the 80's.  They see the rock in its rough state and they know what to do to extract it.  They separate it from the ore it rests in.  They polish it.  They cut it.  They make an ordinary rock with seemingly no value sparkle and they create wealth!  The 80's often never notice the rock, won't polish, can't cut and consequently perceive little value. 

Chris Hendricks 

 

 

Julie McLaughlin
Staging Chico - Chico, CA
I'm a new agent and I'm seeing that a lot other real estate professionals in my area don't even have a website! Of the ones that do, only a handful update them or have other means of online leads. I think it is definitely an achievable goal for me to be in the 'top' in my town. I'm working hard and I wont be stopping anytime soon! Thanks for the informative post!
Mar 26, 2007 05:38 PM
Danny Smith
DISCOVER TEXAS HOMES - Round Rock, TX
I agree with Randall waayy up above! A lead is a lead is a lead! Who cares about the statistics? It doesn't matter if it is a walk in, a phone call, a on-line source if you don't follow up you'll lose the sale.
Mar 26, 2007 09:47 PM
Miriam Bernstei
Rochester, NY

Good post.  For those agents that pay lead generators I would prefer that they let their offices provide the leads to them. We all pay for listings, marketing and dues so that we can place properties on the MLS.  Then the lead generators charge agents to capture clients that they obtained because they accessed what we paid to put onto the internet and MLS to begin with.  I have yet to meet any agent who had a good experience with lead generators and I find with the change in the market more and more companies are attempting to get me to sign up.  My answer is and I wish everyone would follow is that I will pay for a legitimate client, a referral fee, but never am ongoing monthly amount for stuff that doesn't amount to much.  I feel if these companies were legitimate they would agree to paid from the proceeds.

 

Mar 26, 2007 10:10 PM
Jason Sardi
Auto & Home & Life Insurance throughout North Carolina - Charlotte, NC
Your Agent for Life
Very well put.  It's very easy on all sides of this industry to blame a lack of business on the fact that they aren't getting the so-called hot leads.  There is a reason those leads are 'hot' and the the diamond analogy you use Chris is very nice.  Personally, I'm inching into the 20% realm, yet could use some polishing in extracting my own diamond in the rough.  I'll get there:-)
Mar 26, 2007 10:26 PM
Terry Collins II
HomeSmart ICARE Realty - Sacramento, CA
If it involves real estate, I'm there.

I had to go through 4 online lead providers and research many others before finding the right one for me. Some of the companies had a good service, but their program did not fit me. Bottom line, 97% of online lead generators do not deliver very good leads. My lead company does not deliver very good leads. I am not the only professional the lead is sold to. It's a fight. I pay $1100 a month for 1 lead a day. I close at least one deal a month from this source. The numbers are not great, but I more than break even on my investment. I have this lead source to supplement my "old school" marketing which usually costs me next to nothing.

Mar 26, 2007 11:06 PM
Tim Maitski
Atlanta Communities Real Estate Brokerage - Atlanta, GA
Truth, Excellence and a Good Deal

Excellent post.  Great analogy.  I'm in the 20% who got on the web early on and get plenty of my own leads.  But it is a huge amount of time to learn and implement.  The game keeps changing.  Some make lead generators into some kind of evil enterprise.  I think you explained it well. 

It might be cheaper to buy the leads than to try to generate them yourself.  You can easily spend thousands on SEO and get no where.  When Google changes you need to spend more money. One way or another, you are paying for a lead.  The key is in the conversion rate.  If you find a consistant way to convert at a profitable rate, you then have a money machine and not  a slot machine. 

Mar 26, 2007 11:19 PM
Luke Constantino
Brooklyn/Manhattan Real Estate - Brooklyn, NY
Residential/Commercial Real Estate Brooklyn NY

lol... I noticed the glen gary/glen ross comment... very funny!

All I have to say is whatever works for you my friend keep doing it...

I find eveything works so I try to do a little of everything.

Mar 26, 2007 11:22 PM
Chris Hendricks
Walnut Creek, CA
Nice to see a healthy reaction from the 20s and the 'soon-to-be-in-the-20s' crowd here.  One thing that some folks seem to continue to want to think is that 'hot leads' are virtual 'done-deals' that are far, far down the sales pipeline.  Internet 'leads' are really usually quite raw, quite early in the process, and ALWAYS come with substantial 'waste' (think 'the ore' decribed in the blog post itself).  If you're expecting to only pay for diamonds, go to the jewelry shop after the hard part has been done.  But if you're mining for great value, you can pay pennies on the dollar for what could be a great find-- but you have to expect to toss out a lot of ore as waste while you mine!
Mar 27, 2007 04:32 AM
Robert McArtor
RE/MAX Components - Fallston Maryland - Bel Air, MD
Top Listing Agent for Baltimore and Harford County
I was told early on....follow-up, follow-up, follow-up. 
Mar 27, 2007 06:48 AM
Irene Potter
ZipRealty Residential Brokerage - Maple Valley, WA
Creating moving experiences in real estate
No matter how leads are generated, there is always work involved in converting those leads. Those looking for the easy or quick fix will be disappointed. We need to have effective systems for everything. I find that when I neglect my follow up, my business slows down; there is a definite correlation.
Mar 27, 2007 01:35 PM
Burland & Edmands Stirling
Coldwell Banker - Madison, CT
Chris, an additional demension to ponder....not all leads are of the same quality, the 80/20 rule also applies to them as well.  Think about it, most people go on line to get information quickly and these lead generation companies are in the business of selling leads - the information they provide in fact their advertising, not their product.  They will do anything to capture information so they can peddle it.  I'm sure we all have occationally clicked yes on somthing we did not really read or mean just to get to the information we were looking at.  While it is true everyone is a potential buyer but many are perpetual browsers.
Mar 27, 2007 09:45 PM
Chris Hendricks
Walnut Creek, CA
Tom:  I wouldn't disagree with you regarding the lead quality issue.  In fact, I've long been more supportive of products that can be categorized as online traffic that represents 'opportunities' rather than 'leads'-- leads implies a state of readiness to transact that often is simply not there yet with online activity.  I don't personally feel that a pay-per-lead economic structure makes a lot of sense for this very reason-- you encourage people to 'become' leads when they don't necessarily realize it.  Better, to me, is a stream of traffic, or opportunities-- priced accordingly-- that can be evaluated and nurtured for the various nuggets that actually ARE there.
Mar 28, 2007 04:12 AM
Olan Carder
Fairway Independent Mortgage - Charlotte, NC

I have a question about your "leads" vs "opportunity" thinking.  In practical terms what would be difference?  I am new to the online market place, and most of my business comes from good old fashion relationships.  I would love to get more business from the web (I am a loan officer) but it seems difficult to generate quality purchase business that way for me.  It seems that the online traffic wants to see homes and are much more interested in Real Estate sites than mortgage sites. 

Any suggestions??

Mar 28, 2007 07:09 AM
Chris Hendricks
Walnut Creek, CA

Olan:  In practical terms there might not be a difference but in terms of managing my own sanity about this I treat them differently when managing my expectations.  To me, a "lead" has made some demonstrable step toward a transaction with a finite time horizon stated-- however long that might be.  An "opportunity" is just that-- still a possibility but so early in the research phase that they haven't identified any time horizon for taking action.  Everyone in my neighborhood is an 'opportunity' to me.  The ones that have come and talked to me about the possibility of buying printing from me are 'leads' I can incubate toward a deal.

I have some thoughts about how mortgage business online can get done and how you might go about it.  Shoot me a note or a call and let's kick it around off the blog.  If it turns out my stuff is a good idea, you can have a head start before I blog it to the world!

Mar 28, 2007 10:11 AM
Christopher Webster
EXP Realty, LLC - Columbia, SC
Columbia South Carolina Real Estate For Sale
I generate my own leads and also receive company leads. I feel that if you followup until they buy,sell or give up, you have done well. I never give up a lead. I have leads that are 3+ years old. I have had leads that are seemingly dead, then one day they call ready to buy or sell due to my continued efforts!
Mar 29, 2007 06:19 AM
Associate Broker Falmouth MA Cape Cod Heath Coker
https://teamcoker.robertpaul.com - Falmouth, MA
Heath Coker Berkshire Hathaway HS Robert Paul Prop
The only way the lead generators can generate is if they compete with listing agents by using listing agents' listings.  I think the NW MLS has a good idea in stoping the feed to the lead generators.
Mar 29, 2007 06:46 AM
David Dollar
Dollar and Associates - Fullerton, CA

Funny how timing works.  I just closed a deal from a lead I received last year and have been working since then and now I read this.  I'm convinced!

Jun 07, 2007 12:52 PM
BILL CHERRY
Bill Cherry, Realtor - Dallas, TX
Broker & Wealth Coach

There are two kinds of leads.  The best one is the lead from a mutual friendHere's why: While the agent and the prospect may not know each other, each has confidence that their friend wouldn't have "done them in."  So those leads usually mature into a sale and new leads.

The second kind are pseudo-credible leads.  They're the "prospects" who were wondering what it would cost if they were to buy a house in Denver and move there from their $65,000 Alvin, Texas bungalow. And as they search the web they come upon one of those lead companies, and it is disguised.  The pseudo-prospect thinks he'll be dealing with a pseudo-Realtor when he clicks on "send."  It's all a joke, afterall.  Serious  people aren't on either end, he reasons.

So the lead company sends that pseudo-credible lead to one of its subscribers, and the subscriber has to pay for it, irrespective of whether or not it generates a sale.  And if that isn't bad enough, many of the lead companies send that same lead to others, charging them as well.  Many times you can never reach the pseudo-prospect.  Sometimes I have tracked them down through the tax rolls, only to find out that they have seriously overstated the value of their home.

The lead company rationalizes that if you sell one house out of, say, 50 of their leads, after you subtract the cost of all the leads it took you to get to a sale, you're a thousand bucks richer than you would have been. 

Well, that's false economy for sure.  If the agent had devoted his time to generating leads of the first category above...the mutual friend leads, he would have made far more money, had far more closings and invested far less time.

Frankly there is no easy way to get successful leads.  You have to work for them.

BILL CHERRY, DALLAS BROKER-REALTOR. 972 380-7347

MY 43RD YEAR SELLING TEXAS

MEET ME ON THE WEB: WWW.BILLCHERRYBROKER.COM

Jun 07, 2007 01:40 PM
HomeValueStore.com www.HomeValueStore.com
HomeValueStore.com - San Diego, CA

Re: "The typical argument I've seen against the existence of lead generators is that they step 'in between' the lead and the REALTOR® that should be receiving the lead naturally.  The argument is that the lead generators usurp the natural order, act as an interloper and cart away value that should be going to "A" and rather, they sell it to "B" without adding value.  And there's a strong sentiment against them existing-- for just that reason."

 

This argument is tough to defend.  If someone wants to sell their house, the local agent does not have the "right" to that person.  The seller has the "right" to choose whichever agent they feel comfortable with. It just so happens that they go online for their search.  And how one receives a lead "naturally" I'm not quite sure, but the internet is very natural today. 

Other examples of common go-between companies:

Shopping.com

Shopzilla.com

ebay.com

amazon.com

and ANY other website engaged in merely lisitng companies in a particular industry

bizrate.com

pricegrabber.com

etc. I just Googled "Comparison shopping" and found over 47 million websites.

These sites don't sell things themselves. They merely give you an avenue to find what you're looking for and then charge the participating website a fee for doing business with you. So, it is generally the same concept. The customer ends up actually paying more for the item due to having to pay to sell it on their websites.

There is, however, a company out there that doesn't charge for online leads, and is truely pay-for-performance only. HomeValueStore.com.  What a concept. Oh yeah, and the lead is "exclusive".

So, don't rule out online real estate leads just yet, thousands of people sell, buy, and refi their homes every day from an agent they chose due to an online "lead".

Best Regards,

Criss 

 

Sep 11, 2007 04:28 PM
Chris Hendricks
Walnut Creek, CA
I was with you right up until the point about the customer paying more for the item... where I generally disagree.  The "efficiency" factor that allows a customer to "find" what they're searching for comes at some expense but generally I think the cost of being "efficiently connected" with a solid prospect is less expensive than general marketing that seeks to reach a mass market and cull through these to find solid prospects.  Given the elimination of spending to 'touch' the masses, ROI is generally better and consequently the ultimate cost of the marketing paid by the consumer is less-- not more.
Sep 12, 2007 04:40 AM